Fellows, need some OS help for a new tower.

[Cazzie]

It has been awhile since I have participated in the flight sim community. Most of that occurred about a year ago when the tower I currently use lost one of its SLI'd vid cards. I replaced both, but have never gotten the results from FSX I did before the card went. Anyhow, I am building a new tower with super speed capabilities and my query is, how many of you are using Windows 7 or Windows 8 or 8.1 and are able to use the two MS Flight Sims FS9 and FSX? I have heard and read that Windows 8 and above do not like either and that FS9 has problems with Windows 7. Give me all the feedback you can from those of you that are able to use these OSs. Another reason I need to build a new tower with a new OS is that many of my newer graphics programs, i.e. Adobe Lightroom V5 will not install on Vista-64, only on Windows 7 or 8. Many thanks in advance for any input you can give.

Caz, who hopes to be back in virtual aviation before long.

[Bjoern]

FS9 works on Win 7 x86.

[trucker17]

I have used both FS9 and FSX with windows 7 and have never had a problem with it......

[dhazelgrove]

Windows 8.1 (finally) works fine with both FSX and FS9.

Dave

[Cazzie]

Thanks for the input fellows, think I'll go with 7 Pro.

Caz

[hairyspin]

Good choice: just keep your FS installs away from the default Program Files or Program Files (x86) directories.

[Cazzie]

Good choice: just keep your FS installs away from the default Program Files or Program Files (x86) directories.

I'm all for suggestions as to where to install the Flight Sims. I am planning on trying them on SSD drives, any experience there anyone?

Caz

[dhazelgrove]

I'm all for suggestions as to where to install the Flight Sims. I am planning on trying them on SSD drives, any experience there anyone?

Caz

Personally, I'd be wary of using SSD drives for FS, because of the amount of file write/rewrite that goes on.
I understand that SSDs don't like too much of that.

Dave

[Cazzie]

Personally, I'd be wary of using SSD drives for FS, because of the amount of file write/rewrite that goes on.
I understand that SSDs don't like too much of that.

Dave

Gotcha! Thanks Dave for that, I had wondered how FS might do on one. I have a 2T HDD also, will go on that. Do you suggest making a new Folder on the main drive for the FS programs to install to? That's one reason I pose these queries before I jump the gun. I have all the add-ons too, REX, GEX, UT, FSGenesis terrain for US. etc. Just crossing my fingers. This will probably be the last platform I build for my personal FS.

Caz

[OleBoy]

I've been running Windows 7 Ultimate and dual SSD drives only (250gb/ea. one for OS, one for simulation) since Prepar3D v1.3, and I've had zero trouble. Just never format the drive from what I've read. I think they're great compared to mechanical drives

[napamule]

Caz,
It's a brand new 'game' now adays when it comes to putting together a rig. There is more need to know your operating system (32 bit or 64 bit) and what hardware best works with it, and the limitations you might have with 32 bit. Then there is the mother board and what chip set it has. Then how much memory to install. Then what video card works best with that mb/chip set/memory/power supply. Yes, power supply. Some cards need more wattage to function right. You can't drive a 2 Ghz DDR5 card with a 500 Watt psu.

Get MaximumPC magazine and check what 'parts' they use with their rigs. They make 'budget', 'baseline' and 'performance' rigs. The parts list and cost is there. Also they build other rigs, from $750 AMD's to $7,500 Intel rigs. After you read up, you might just be shaking your head and wondering 'what was I thinking'. Just a video card alone won't 'make it'. It all has to 'match'.

When you have your Windows install working like it should, and after you defrag the HDrive(s), (not the SSD's) after you do update to MBoard chip set drivers, video card drivers and Anti Virus program can you then contemplate an FS install(s). Get reading forum posts and by 'early next year' you'll be ready to install and run FSX with sliders almost maxed. Good luck.
Chuck B
Napamule
Edit: I have been building my own rigs since the 80's and presently have an i7 2600K 3.4 Gzh 8 gb ram ATI Radeon 7550 1gb DDR5 and I get 30 fps (locked) with FSX with no problems. I have Wester Digital 7200 rpm HDrives: C=Windows and D=Flight Sim 9 and FSX.

[Cazzie]

Thanks Chuck, know all about what you say, will be Windows 7 64-bit. Never worry about power, have 900 Watts with more plugs than I'll need for the time. Already have a old, dirty T-shirt from having a weak power supply go bust. Also know well about getting the right MB for the right vid cars, I shall have two nVidia 660s SLI'd. CPU is Intel i7 3.5GHz, motherboard is Intel mated to nVidia cards. Also have a 7.1 surround sound card, and because I deal with many programs at one time in my graphics, I have 32 GB of Corsair RAM, that's right. All will be Thermo-cooled.

Many thanks, going ahead and order the parts, hope to build by next week.

Caz

[TeaSea]

Caz,

I just finished a build and have spent the last two weeks configuring and tweaking the basic stuff. Just got to the Flight Sim this weekend. I'm running Win7 Premium on an i7-3770K CPU @ 3.5 Ghz, 8 GB RAM, 64 Bit. MoBo is a Sabertooth z-77 1155 socket. GPU is an AMD Radeon HD 7900. Frankly it's a bit of an overkill for FSX and FS9.

I elected to put in a 256 Gb SSD, with a 1 TB WD HDD. I also decided to run FSX on the SDD and installed it in the Root (C:/FSX). I deleted the MS Games folder in Programs 86.

The ONLY issue I had was getting MS FSX to allow me to use all the features of the menu bar without a CTD. There are other problems reported, but this one was the only one I had. The culprit as it turned out was an updated driver for the AMD GPU which did not play well with FSX (and some other games as well). AMD has a beta update which I obtained and after that this thing kicks butt. I'm running all the sliders maxed with no problems, although I've not really run REX up yet.

I know there's some concern with SSD and the constant read/writing....after looking at the numbers I consider it no worse than running on an HDD although earlier SSD's would have been problematic. Both of these forms of media WILL FAIL at some point.

If you're building now, include the SSD. Run your OS on it if nothing else. That alone will improve your performance.

I'll let you know if I spot any anomalies over the next few days.

[andersel]

Cazzie - My OS is Win 7 (64) and I have been running FS9 without any issues since my most recent hardware upgrade in May of this year.

I, just recently, installed P3D on the same rig and it seems to be running fine.

Both installs are on a Western 2tb Digital HD (F:\ in my case)and are as far as I could get them away from EITHER of my Program Files folders, most especially Program Files (x86).

LA

[Bushpounder]

Missed you at the Regionals, Caz. Did you go at all?

Don

[PHo17]

Cazzie,

for FSX the CPU should be as fast as one can afford (and even that seems not to be too much). For FS9 any modern CPU is enough.

Almost any modern display card (with 2GB memory) is enough even for FSX. It doesn't have to be the latest "monster" (other games would like very much).

RAM on the mother board should be at least 8GB (more isn't needed for simulators at the moment)

SSD drive as OS (booting) drive will speed up the system a lot. If one can afford another/bigger SSD won't harm the simulators either though traditional HDD will do fine also (I have 200GB SSD + 2TB HDD)

The rest of the hardware as anyone like best for himself

What comes to the software 64b OS is a must. Anything from Vista to Windows 8 will do fine for both simulators. Though Vista is a bit tricky, so I recommend Windows 7 or 8 and 64b! I don't like Windows 8's GUI (it suits well for portable devices but with a desktop it is just a nuisance - in my opinion). Nowadays (version 8.1) one can have the traditional destop as firs GUI for Windows 8 too, so this thing is ok too.

Why 64b? This may have been said (written) here many times, but repetition isn't any harm (I am a retired teacher LOL ). A 32b program (like FSX and FS9 both are) can use only (maximum) 4GB of memory. So anything over 4GB of RAM would be there for nothing. However the first 4GB should be shared with OS, FSX and others. A little bit crowded right? A 64b OS leaves more memory free for 32b programs which must be situated in the first 4GB.

There is one drawback with 64b OS. One cannot use any 16b programs anymore (and possibly those that have 16b parts in them). This can be however dodged (if needed - I don't) by downloading an addon from MicroSoft's site that makes it possible to run also 16b programs in 64b OS.

Pekka

[zswobbie1]

Appologies to PHo17 for jumping in here..

Graphics Cards - make sure that it's a DX11 graphics card (hardware). If you eventually go for Prepar3dv2.0, it is essential!!

RAM on the mother board should be at least 8GB (more isn't needed for simulators at the moment)
Keep in mind that the sims are 32bit programs & cannot see more than 4GB. The extra RAM will give the PC more headroom.

If you can, use an SSD drive as a boot drive, then as big or as many hard drives as you can. They fill up very quickly.

Operating systems- Stay away from Vista. Do not EVER think about it!!
It is old, redundant, not supported & a pain in the butt. No-one EVER recommends it!
Windows 7 64bit is perfect!

A 32b program (like FSX and FS9 both are) can use only (maximum) 4GB of memory, INCLUDING the RAM of the graphics card!. A 64b OS leaves more memory free for 32b programs that use a max of 4GB, & will allow the extra RAM to be used by the graphics card etc.

There is one drawback with 64b OS. One cannot use any 16b programs anymore (and possibly those that have 16b parts in them). This can be however dodged (if needed - I don't) by downloading an addon from MicroSoft's site that makes it possible to run also 16b programs in 64b OS. - HUH?? 16bit programs are from the dark days. I really dont know of any 16bit programs at all. Not since the 'ol DOS days, so this comment can be ignored.

[IanHenry]

Hi Cazzie,
I suggest that you read Nick N's FSX install "Bible":
http://www.simforums.com/Forums/the-fsx-computer-system-the-bible-by-nickn_topic46211.html

He tells you how to optimize your system and how to create a folder to install FSX into. It's well worth the time spent reading and implementing.

Regards,
Ian.

[Cazzie]

Don, I haven't been to a model event since Lynchburg three years ago. I have not been a member of IPMS/US for going on 5 years. Things may turn around and from the looks opf Models from the Nats, they are beginning to. But I still disagree with IPMS/USA judging and awarding rules, I think we should be more like the UK. I also despise the Spanish school that took over IPMS/worldwide. FWIW, I have been getting an itch to be creative again, but befoire I do, I need some space. Do you folks still have room at the museum for a hundred or so models? :)

Again, thanks to all for advice and set-ups, I think I'll be flying back in the sim community again before long. As mentioned, I do a lot of graphic work involving flyers, T-shirts, about any printable mnaterial, mostly for the running club and bicycle clubs, so the big RAM is for working in many programs at once (up to 4 or 5), not for FS.

Caz

[Bushpounder]

Yes we do, Caz. I would certainly like to follow up with you on this. I just started vacation today, and will not be back into the office until the 26th. Shoot me a PM with your phone, and I will contact you shortly after that. I went to the regionals, but only to shop. I haven't competed since 2001. Don't ever plan to again. Talk soon, my friend!

Don

[fxsttcb]

I don't think I'd worry too much about SSD longevity. I have an original early '09 model Kingston 64GB, and a 128GB from Dec '09. The 64GB one was originally my FSX drive, and is now used in our HTPC.
The 128GB unit is in my development rig and gets multitudes of writes and deletions on a weekly basis. No issues with either, and those don't have state of the art Flash Memory and wear leveling.
Considering that FSX doesn't write much, the 2,000-3,000 write endurance(per cell), and today's top notch wear leveling algorithms, you'd be hard pressed to wear one out before a new computer was in order.
That average 2,500 write per cell endurance would mean writing to the entire drive at least 2 times a day for the next 3 years.

I've extensively tested a multitude of Hard Drive arraingements for Windows and FSX. From 5400rpm laptop drives to 48GB RAMDisks(Blink...Loaded!).
With both Windows and FSX located on an SSD, either on one drive, or separate drives, stutter resistance is vastly improved.
No real FPS increase, but, that configuration allowed for a lot more eyecandy/graphics quality settings, before stuttering again reared it's ugly head.

If you are confined to mechanical drives, for whatever reason, then seperate drives for Windows and your Sim is best.
"Two heads are better than one", allowing virtually simultaneous operation of Windows and FSX rather than sharing the mechanical head's motion on a single drive.

Windows 7x64 whatever flavor. Note that Home Premium is limited to a max of 16GB RAM.

RAM: While 8GB is more than enough for Windows and FSX, installing 16GB, or more, will allow you to completely eliminate the page file. Every little bit helps.
Haswell CPUs love fast, fast, RAM, so, if you are building with a Z87 and i5-4670K/i7-4770K, buy the fastest, compatible, low latency, memory your wallet will stand.
On a few Z87/4770K systems, I've seen as much as 5 FPS, DDR3-1600 CAS9 vs DDR3-2400 CAS9, all else being the same rig. It does make a bigger difference than with previous chipsets and CPUs..

Sorry so windy! Just trying to dispell the SSD myth, and help you folks get better performance...Don

The SSD endurance Myth: http://www.storagesearch.com/ssdmyths-endurance.html

[KellyB]

I have been using win7 64bit for about a year now, with no trouble. Just read the loads of install info on our site, and you'll not be disappointed.

You may also benefit from reading these comparisons of win7 os's. You really won't benefit from Pro unless you're into lots of networking solutions.

http://winsupersite.com/windows-7/windows-7-product-editions-comparison

[TeaSea]

I agree with KellyB on the OS. Unless you find an exceptional deal on Win7 Pro (and you might), or have a home network that exceeds normal parameters (have your own rack of virtualized servers and 48 port switches hiding in a closet), then my personal observation is that Win 7 Pro is simply not worth the extra expense.

So, have you committed? What did you end up with?

Send pictures!!

[Cazzie]

Went on recommendation of oldest son and yes teasea, we have a rather large Home Network with three young men, me and a wife connected, both Ethernet and Wi-Fi on tablets. And I did get a good deal from Tiger Direct for buying the case and guts from them.

Here's a synopsis of the system info:

1517.

I know the 32 GB is way overkill for FSX, I got it because when doing some HDR photography and graphic design for T-shirts and run and bicycle flyers, I work in up top five programs at one time and I like smooth transitions between programs and their operations.

Caz