NASCAR Busts Them All!!!

[Panther_99FS]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nascar/story/Sprint-Cup-Martin-Truex-booted-from-Chase-Ryan-Newman-to-take-his-spot-090913#!iE1zQ

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

So you are happy with this outcome?

-Ed-

PS I'm not! Not at all! But at least it's a start.

An edit PSS:

Bowyer should be eliminated fronm the chase period and parked for at least 3 races. He is the guy who turned the wheel. Drivers have to understand that they have a responsibility to uphold the integrity of NASCAR no matter what they are told. Now Bowyer gets to race for the title - what if he wins - the egg on NASCARS face won't come off for years if ever.

Vickers - much as I like Brian - gets parked for say 2 races. Same as above.

Truex is out of the chase but he can race because what did he do wrong other than being on a team of cheaters. He is not parked but gets to race.

Waltrip sits there a team owner with two of his cars parked only one running and he as the chief takes the flak and tries to save his sponsors.

The other penalties are fine.

This puts Newman in, Jeff in and keeps Joey in which is probably appropriate.

That is what I think should have been done.

[Panther_99FS]

Hey All,

So you are happy with this outcome?

-Ed-

PS I'm not! Not at all! But at least it's a start.

An edit PSS:

Bowyer should be eliminated fronm the chase period and parked for at least 3 races. He is the guy who turned the wheel. Drivers have to understand that they have a responsibility to uphold the integrity of NASCAR no matter what they are told. Now Bowyer gets to race for the title - what if he wins - the egg on NASCARS face won't come off for years if ever.

Vickers - much as I like Brian - gets parked for say 2 races. Same as above.

Truex is out of the chase but he can race because what did he do wrong other than being on a team of cheaters. He is not parked but gets to race.

Waltrip sits there a team owner with two of his cars parked only one running and he as the chief takes the flak and tries to save his sponsors.

The other penalties are fine.

This puts Newman in, Jeff in and keeps Joey in which is probably appropriate.

That is what I think should have been done.

I wouldn't say I'm dissatisfied but I will say that NASCAR looks moronic here.

- Agree that Bowyer should be eliminated
- Vickers should be eliminated also
- Gordon & Jamie Mac should take both the above places.

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

I understand NASCARs thinking. Minimize penalties to drivers go after CCs and above. This is fundamentally wrong - every participant in NASCAR has the obligation to uphold the integrity of the sport. That is why they should all be punished. That will send a message to every single person on a team. I do not understand why you think the 1 should get in over the 22. The 22 did nothing wrong but drive his car - ergo he is in irrespective of the whys and wherefores. Exactly as I said with the 55 all he did was drive his car - his job. This is a really dark time for NASCAR.

-Ed-

[Panther_99FS]

This is a really dark time for NASCAR.

-Ed-

And it will be darker if Bowyer or Vickers wins the cup...:pop4:

[Daveroo]

i guess i understand Vickers punishment,but its not really fair to him personally,it came from Norris,and Vickers didnt seem to know what was going on,but did as told.i think if i were Rob Kauffman.no relation to me dang it,id have a nice long talk to Mikey and ask him if he wants to play games..does he really want to do it with my team...i mean we all know if it werent for Kauffmans money..there wouldnt be any MWR in the first place...

i used to be a big mikey fan...but this is the last straw for me....he is worse than jaws was....i wonder how darrel will try to spin this to make it Chad Knaus fault?

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

Quite frankly the more I think about this the more it pfisses me off. Think I will go play guitar or post-process a photo or something. Vickers is not in the chase.

-Ed-

[Panther_99FS]

I do not understand why you think the 1 should get in over the 22. The 22 did nothing wrong but drive his car -
-Ed-

Read my post again, I didn't say anything about Logano.
I said Bowyer & Vickers should go to be replaced by Gordon & Jamie Mac

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

Read my post Vickers was never in the chase at any point. Why would the 1 replace somebody never even in the chase?

-Ed-

[eddie]

Well, I'm glad Newman is back in, they stole the win from him!

[Panther_99FS]

Hey All,

Read my post Vickers was never in the chase at any point. Why would the 1 replace somebody never even in the chase?

-Ed-

Thought he was - nevermind then...

[Panther_99FS]

Well, I'm glad Newman is back in, they stole the win from him!

Yep - Good to see him in!

[stansdds]

NASCAR acted quickly and penalized those involved, that's great! I do question the severity of the penalty. What MWR did was engineer the outcome of the race by having Bowyer spin and then pitting Vickers near the end of the race. Bowyer knew what he was doing and drivers know it is against NASCAR rules to intentionally bring out a caution. I think Bowyer got off easy.

You can tell by the radio recordings that Vickers had no idea why he was being called to pit road, so I do have a hard time with penalizing him, but MWR and Vickers' crew chief are guilty as sin of conspiring to rig the race. I would like to think that NASCAR is not finished with investigating MWR, but this is probably all that is going to happen.

Nice to see Newman in the chase, he has worked hard for it, but MWR should have been nailed to the wall for what they did.

[Terry]

The spin also knocked Gordon out (he was in by one point), but no fix there by NASCAR.

[WND]

MY TAKE ON EVERYTHING!!!

1. NASCAR has reacted and I believe at this point NOTHING more will be done - their now hoping everything quiets down and goes away!!!

2. I believe that MWR has not only put a nice big black cloud over themselves because of their actions but over NASCAR as a whole!!! I would suspect at this point that ALL their sponsors are having their own meetings regarding their future involvement!!!! THANKS MWR, I hope your all proud of yourselves!!!

Mr. Waltrip, if you want to have any sort of 'saving grace' then I would suggest REPLACING all your 'top brass' for even thinking of doing what they did - ESPECIALLY utilizing a device they KNOW is being monitored!!! DAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

3. Glad to see that Newman is back in. Giving him the victory would be nice HOWEVER we can only speculate that there WOULD NOT have been a caution and he would have continued on to victory without having any issues himself. I also agree with his comments regarding his pit crew letting him down on that last stop.

4. I don't believe anything should be done to Lagano. Altho he was having a bad night, he was doing what he thought he needed to do - and I believe he was unaware of the chain of events that where taking place and that they where actually helping him..

5. I feel bad for personally penalizing Truex and Vickers! Apparently it is evident that Vickers didn't have a clue of what was going down and I believe Truex wasn't aware of it either - unfortunately they where a 'by product' of the supidity of their 'higher ups'!!! Vickers wasn't even a 'contender' and taking Truex out of the chase would have been enough..

6. I have a real big problem with nothing being done with Boyer!! I AM NOT a Boyer hater HOWEVER if NASCAR has enough evidence to determine that Boyer purposely started this whole mess, then he should be removed from the chase - if for anything 'Un-sportsman like conduct"!!! If they allow him to stay in the chase (and apparently at this point they are), then suspend him enough races that would mathematically not allow him to win the chase. HOWEVER with that, I have a problem with him receiving any 'position' monies at all at the end of the year!!!!!

7. I know there are GORDON haters out there, and I understand the argument that he could have done better in the prior 25 races to not be in the situation he was in BUT - lets be honest - he was busting his ass doing what he had to - to accomplish the goal of making the chase!!! Unfortunately, again, we can only speculate that if nothing would have occurred he would have continued on to the finish line and gotten the results he needed..

Therefore, I believe NASCAR should re-instate him to the Chase and if need be, add the next person in line and make it a 13 car event...

8. Finally, I think NASCAR should visit the last 're-start' issue... Again, I am NOT a Edwards hater and apparently the 27 did spin his tires BUT it also appears to me he wasn't 'draggin his ass' getting up to speed either!! Spinning your tires - then taking a 'powder your nose break' is one thing BUT spinning your tires and trying your best to get going is another and if your going to exercise that rule of 'the leader is the first one to cross the line' (which NASCAR did earlier in the year) then the rule should apply equally to EVERYONE!!!!


Anyways, THAT's my thoughts on the whole mess!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WND

[Panther_99FS]

The spin also knocked Gordon out (he was in by one point), but no fix there by NASCAR.

Yet another reason why I've been saying that for the last 2yrs, nobody has had more bad luck than Gordon.

[Panther_99FS]

Something that hasn't been said.
Should FOXSports allow Michael Waltrip to continue booth broadcasting :ques:

[Terry]

Something that hasn't been said.
Should FOXSports allow Michael Waltrip to continue booth broadcasting :ques:


No, and while were at it lets get the Wallace brothers out of the booth, they have become tedious!

[Panther_99FS]

-> http://msn.foxsports.com/nascar/story/richmond-michael-waltrip-racing-fined-is-it-enough-clint-bowyer-brian-vickers-martin-truex-jr-ryan-newman-jeff-gordon-090913#!iLwYN


...Vickers slowed dramatically on the subsequent restart before Norris called him to pit road. The moves enabled Joey Logano to remain in the top 10 in the point standings and open up a wild-card spot for Truex, knocking Jeff Gordon (http://msn.foxsports.com/nascar/cup/driver/jeff-gordon/287625) out of the top 10 and out of the Chase in the process...''While Helton didn’t believe there was “conclusive evidence that the 15 spin was intentional,” he said the most damning proof “was the direction that the 55 driver (Vickers) was given and the confusion around it, and then the conversation following that occurrence is the most clear part of that preponderance.”.

[PRB]

I agree with what Dave Despain said on the race Hub show yesterday. Basically, don't move anyone in or out of the Chase. What's done is done and you can't fix everything that "might have" happened had the 15 not spun out. The one thing that can be "fixed" is to make sure the 15 cannot win the championship, or guarantee he comes in last, by taking away a sufficient number of points. And fine the heck out of MWR and all involved.

[Panther_99FS]

That is a good point by Despain because we do not know what would've happened in laps 4, 3, 2, 1...

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

There is nothing sacred about finishing a race. A race is official at any point after midway - usually due to weather. As a result NASCAR can "stop the race" immediately prior to the infraction/spin and go from there. They have that power and that option. In effect this is probably what should have been done or something close to it. And then ban the 15 from winning the cup.

-Ed-

[PRB]

Watched Bowyer's interview on SportCenter. It was bizarre. He was trying to be his trademark happy-goofy self, and didn't seem in the least upset that he had been wronged by NASCAR. In fact he said several times that he “understood” NASCAR's decision, and this was just “something we'll have to work through”, blah blah. More irritating was that Lindsay Czarniak never directly asked him if he spun on purpose. I guess she knew he wouldn't answer. But if he didn't, don't you think he'd be proclaiming his innocence from the roof tops? Geez, act a little bit outraged. He didn't even try to deny it. Tried to act instead like it was no big deal.

More interesting was the interview with Waltrip on the Speed Hub show. They talked mostly about the 55 car's contribution to all this. Waltrip's point was that Norris ordered the 55 to pit, giving a position advantage to the 56, because they “needed the point”. They didn't even try to hide it because they never considered it cheating, probably because all teams do it all the time. Team mates let each other lead a lap to gain a point, for example. Big Deal. This argument I can sort of understand. Less convincing was his assertion that he was unaware of anybody in the MWR organization making any plans to take advantage of these sorts of “opportunities” before the race. Sure...

[Daveroo]

i just wonder what Mark Martin would have done had he been in the 55 that night?....come in?..or ignored Norris?...

[stansdds]

Good question, Dave. I would like to think that Mark Martin would have stayed out and remained competitive. I still say Bowyer got off easy and I've lost respect for the MWR organization. I sincerely hope that Bowyer's engine blows up on the opening laps of the final ten races.

[Terry]

i just wonder what Mark Martin would have done had he been in the 55 that night?....come in?..or ignored Norris?...


I can't see Mark ever taking an order to pull off a questionable stunt. He set his standards so high years ago that he won't even bump a car out of the way on the last lap to win a race. Probably why he has no championships.

[eddie]

Now they are looking at Gilliland and Logano?

http://msn.foxsports.com/nascar/story/david-gilliland-joey-logano-improper-communications-richmond-chase-for-the-sprint-cup-091113#!iZ72P

[Terry]

This is starting to look like the motor sports version of the black sox of old! :(

[PRB]

"NASCAR is aware of reports about the No. 22 and No. 38 radio communications at Richmond International Raceway and is looking into it, but has yet to see anything in full context that requires any action."

Hmm, that's consistent... :isadizzy:

[Terry]

NASCAR should dictate that starting in 2015, (one team per owner in each series and no one in an owners immediate family may own a team.). Give them 2014 to divest or shut down the extra teams. The BS has to stop before these clowns ruin the sport.

[stansdds]

This is the sort of stuff you get when one owner has multiple teams. It was a whole lot simpler back in the day when a team was a team and answered only to themselves and NASCAR.

[Panther_99FS]

Now they are looking at Gilliland and Logano?

http://msn.foxsports.com/nascar/story/david-gilliland-joey-logano-improper-communications-richmond-chase-for-the-sprint-cup-091113#!iZ72P


And "the plot" thickens! :blind: :pop4:

[PRB]

I'm feeling some cynical emotions coming on... Spinning on purpose for "strategeric" purposes has always been, well, most of the time, sort of, I guess, a "no-no", more or less. Frowned upon, at least... On the other hand, NASCAR has had multi-car teams for decades, and throughout all those decades, the stuff Vickers and Logano stand accused of (but not Bowyer) has been standard, normal, every-day practice, in every single race. Everyone knows it, including NASCAR. All of a sudden they're acting surprised, because it's their precious "chase" that has been sullied. Welcome to the "Law of Unintended Consequences."

[Terry]

Speaking of the old days a big portion of this problem could be solved by taking away the radios.

NAPA is very unhappy so MWR may be in big trouble.

[Daveroo]

i was thinking the same thing,,,,take the radios away,make them use sign boards and hand signals ,and yes the safety factor would go up due to no spotters...but i also feel it would improve racing by weeding out the guys who have "money" backing them..and the real drivers who can ..ahem..feel the wind?..hear another cars engine,see the fender,ya know..the way we used to drive..

and yes..you can hear another car..even at the cup level,i once drove an un muffled,,just straight out the headers and dumped,sprintcar that had a 1000hp plus engine,,, full face helmet with the simpson baclava or whatever they are called...i just called it my hoodie..you could still hear a car coming from behind,or beside...heck even in the hobby stock ranks..you could hear the cars around ya..but those were mostly squeaks and bangs...LOL.

[Terry]

[QUOTE=Daveroo;835236]i was thinking the same thing,,,,take the radios away,make them use sign boards and hand signals ,and yes the safety factor would go up due to no spotters...but i also feel it would improve racing by weeding out the guys who have "money" backing them..and the real drivers who can ..ahem..feel the wind?..hear another cars engine,see the fender,ya know..the way we used to drive..

and yes..you can hear another car..even at the cup level,i once drove an un muffled,,just straight out the headers and dumped,sprintcar that had a 1000hp plus engine,,, full face helmet with the simpson baclava or whatever they are called...i just called it my hoodie..you could still hear a car coming from behind,or beside...heck even in the hobby stock ranks..you could hear the cars around ya..but those were mostly squeaks and bangs...LOL.[/QUOTE


Your right, they can hear the engines. Carl said regarding the restart jump that he hit the gas when he heard Menard hit his. He also said he could tell from the sound that Menard was spinning the tires.

[Panther_99FS]

Now they are looking at Gilliland and Logano?

http://msn.foxsports.com/nascar/story/david-gilliland-joey-logano-improper-communications-richmond-chase-for-the-sprint-cup-091113#!iZ72P

More..
-> http://msn.foxsports.com/nascar/story/joey-logano-defends-spot-in-chase-field-denies-wrongdoing-doug-gilliland-091213#!jaUs5

[stansdds]

NASCAR banned drivers from having additional radio channels that would allow them to talk to other drivers, they are now restricted to two channels, a primary and a back-up channel for talking to the crew chief and the spotter. But, the spotters are topside and making deals with each other, maybe NASCAR needs to regulate the spotters?

[b52bob]

They should stomp on this pronto. Gordon should be in the chase even though he may be number 13. Logano should not be penalized but hid team should.

This whole thing stinks of the conspricy that NASCAR is trying to avoid.

[Daveroo]

one "up side" to this ,dale jr isnt involved other than his initial comments,,just a few years ago,the dale haters would have been screaming this was all bout him (had it effected him) and nascar helpinghim...as big of a mike waltrip fan as i was...ive lost all respect for him...i watched his interview again last night,and he sounded like a child who had been caught redhanded,but was still making excuses,and i swear when he said he wont listen to his "haters"...but will only listen to guys like his brother who will speak possitively....

[stansdds]

Yeah, Dave, I have also lost respect for Michael Waltrip.

[stansdds]

They should stomp on this pronto. Gordon should be in the chase even though he may be number 13. Logano should not be penalized but hid team should.

This whole thing stinks of the conspricy that NASCAR is trying to avoid.

I just heard on my local radio station that NASCAR has made a ruling and is adding a 13th position to this year's Chase, Jeff Gordon gets the 13th spot.

[Panther_99FS]

Penske & Front Row are probation. From JAYSKI:


...
UPDATE 4: NASCAR CEO Brian France and NASCAR President Mike Helton held a press conference Friday afternoon at Chicagoland Speedway. They announced that Penske Racing and Front Row Motorsports teams were being placed on probation for the remainder of the season for "actions detrimental to stock car racing'. In addition, NASCAR will hold a mandatory meeting for NASCAR drivers and crew chiefs Saturday at the track to discuss "ethics".
Furthermore, #24-Jeff Gordon will be added to the Chase field as a 13th driver since the actions of Penske and Front Row were out of his control.(9-13-2013)

[Terry]

If Gordon ever had a problem with the #13, I'll bet it's gone now. Glad they fixed this, it was the right thing to do.

[Panther_99FS]

If Gordon ever had a problem with the #13, I'll bet it's gone now. Glad they fixed this, it was the right thing to do.

Agreed 100%
And just to be controversial, I'm going to root for Bowyer to win the Cup! :costum:

[Terry]

Agreed 100%
And just to be controversial, I'm going to root for Bowyer to win the Cup! :costum:


Not controversial by me, I agree Bowyer all the way. He'll make a great champ.

[Panther_99FS]

Not controversial by me, I agree Bowyer all the way. He'll make a great champ.

He might but I don't think Jimmie & Jeff have forgotten about Martinsville....

[eddie]

I think there is someone who paints cars for N2003 who isn't happy over this subject we are talking about in this thread,LOL Check out what he painted!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v138/Thony/cb3_zps9ea449d9.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Thony/media/cb3_zps9ea449d9.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v138/Thony/cb1_zps7e292a2b.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Thony/media/cb1_zps7e292a2b.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v138/Thony/bv1_zps3f7749c6.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Thony/media/bv1_zps3f7749c6.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v138/Thony/mt2_zps3b38c214.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Thony/media/mt2_zps3b38c214.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v138/Thony/mt1_zps385fa91a.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Thony/media/mt1_zps385fa91a.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v138/Thony/jl2_zps95ed9074.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Thony/media/jl2_zps95ed9074.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v138/Thony/jl1_zpsc1e3ea9c.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/Thony/media/jl1_zpsc1e3ea9c.jpg.html)

[Terry]

Great stuff. :applause::applause::applause:

[stansdds]

:icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol: