OMG It FLOATS!!... ::lol::

[warchild]

its in the water, and we can now move forward with it.. Still lots n lots to do.. But wanted to share.. Kinda proud and all ( though i shouldnt be really ) Big thanks to Paul Dominque for helping me learn to use the software..

91448

91449

91450

[Ian Warren]

Wow .. Pam , that is a seriously good looking E-boat :cool:<input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><input jscode="leoInternalChangeDone()" onclick="if(typeof(jsCall)=='function'){jsCall();}else{setT imeout('jsCall()',500);}" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">

[clmooring]

i am really looking forward to this!

[pilottj]

What?! No bikini clad supermodels sunbathing on the deck?:icon_lol:

Looks really great Pam:salute:

[paiken]

I kind of liked the rainbow version you posted earlier.:icon_lol:

[Howellerman]

Okay, I admit it - the "bikini" in the last comment drew me to this post.

That being said, that is REALLY COOL! I can only imagine the complexity of modeling the bridge and functions on such a craft. Very nice!

[mmann]

Pam, were you able to resolve the issue you had getting P3D to show the same model as FSX?

Never mind, I just saw your post at FSDeveloper.

[warchild]

Pam, were you able to resolve the issue you had getting P3D to show the same model as FSX?

Never mind, I just saw your post at FSDeveloper.

yeahhhh.. it didnt help that i have that second install of P3D.. havent used it in a long time and forgot it was there.. http://wollpeper.com/wp-content/uploads/looney-tunes-daffy-duck-960x640-photograph-01.jpg

[warchild]

Thanks for the kind words folks.. It feels good to be honest. Being new to this i'm scaired ****less, and it really helps hearing the feedback.. Bear with me. You know i'll be doing my absolute best. :)..

[mmann]

Pam, I would say live and learn, except at my age it's more like live and forget. :icon_lol:

I'm glad you got it sorted and the model looks great! :salute:

[Francois]

Looking great already !!! :applause:

[jankees]

I agree with Francois, looking very good!

[Roger]

Excellent Pam!

[stovall]

Fantastic model Pam, can't wait to get my hands on it. Brings back memories of the fun we had with the PT boats. Keep us posted and thanks.

[warchild]

Okay, I admit it - the "bikini" in the last comment drew me to this post.

That being said, that is REALLY COOL! I can only imagine the complexity of modeling the bridge and functions on such a craft. Very nice!

Yeahhh.. I've been pondering my plan of attack for making the VC for about three days now. its a Bi-Level bridge with a pilot at the wheel down inside and the captain and officers directly above on the flying bridge ( is that the correct term? ). The big question is whether or not the optical rang finder is tied into the steering mechanism or not. heh. more research ::lol:; the biggest issue i see model wise is down inside. Th pilot cant see anything. He's got just this tiny little window in front of him and thats it. He cant see anything except whatever that big white post is and the forward gunner out of it. I caant imagine how they could have guided it into a slip or pull alongside another boat without having some way f steering it up on top. As always. if someone knows anything about this, i would be very grateful to learn it..

[MCDesigns]

Stumbled on these, might be good for references
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/misc/dkm/s100-72-ep/ep-index.html
http://www.der-lustige-modellbauer.com/t907p60-revell-schnellboot-s100-1-72-fertig
http://www.janelmer.com/gallery/schnellboot_5.htm


I see what you mean about limited view from the sites i posted. personally i would rather be the view of the guy above calling out torpedo shots, LOL.

Looking good, keep at it!!!:applause:

[warchild]

Stumbled on these, might be good for references
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery/misc/dkm/s100-72-ep/ep-index.html
http://www.der-lustige-modellbauer.com/t907p60-revell-schnellboot-s100-1-72-fertig
http://www.janelmer.com/gallery/schnellboot_5.htm


I see what you mean about limited view from the sites i posted. personally i would rather be the view of the guy above calling out torpedo shots, LOL.

Looking good, keep at it!!!:applause:

Those sites are awesome. Thank you.. Some good material there for repainters as well.
Personally, I'd rather be on the bridge as well intead of in the wheel house and a statement was made in the prisoner reports after operation Tiger, that the steering mechanism was very expensive to produce. The question obviously arises: why would they mention the expense of the steering if it was basically the same as any other boat?? I become more and more certain that the steering mechanism is somehow tied into the optical range finder on the bridge but i havent found anything that comes straight out and says it.. If that mechanism is tied to the optical rangefinder, I can add the correct animations for steering to be controlled from the bridge. But i need more proof.. :)..

[Milton Shupe]

Absolutely beautiful work Pam :applause: :medals:

[fliger747]

Just a WAG about the steering? Possibly an autopilot to maintain course or track as these boats operated a lot at night and bad weather for maximum effectiveness. It may be the low somewhat protected steering position was selected for maximum protection in CQB. Many warships of the era relayed helm orders to a remote enclosed piloting position.

Great effort!


T

[srgalahad]

"Rather than conning from the bridge, the commander passed orders to the wheelhouse through a flexible voice pipe. "
http://www.collectrussia.com/sBoot/bridgetube.jpg

Source here:
http://www.prinzeugen.com/DesignManufacture.htm
(http://www.prinzeugen.com/DesignManufacture.htm)http://www.prinzeugen.com/SBOATIND.htm

"A cockpit was set into the wheelhouse roof, placing the commander in a central position with better visibility and shelter. Although they were wonderful sea-boats, they were notoriously “wet” and every scrap of shelter was welcome! From there, he could speak through portholes directly to the wheelhouse forward and navigator aft. His "instrument panel" consisted of glass windows through which he could observe a compass and the wheelhouse interior."
http://www.bmpt.org.uk/boats/S130/index4.htm

Actually, the helmsman's windows were a decent size considering he just steered on orders from "above"
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bud_scotland/8176751934/http://www.s-boot.net/sboats-kriegsmarine-types.html

The "binocular setup" in the bridge was the torpedo-aiming systembut it seemed the basic tactic was still a compensated "point (the Boat) and shoot

[trowelmaster]

thank's for coming through with that info, I was trying to get some sleep but was restless for an answer and was going to start some research. thank's again !

[warchild]

"Rather than conning from the bridge, the commander passed orders to the wheelhouse through a flexible voice pipe. "
http://www.collectrussia.com/sBoot/bridgetube.jpg

Source here:
http://www.prinzeugen.com/DesignManufacture.htm
(http://www.prinzeugen.com/DesignManufacture.htm)http://www.prinzeugen.com/SBOATIND.htm

"A cockpit was set into the wheelhouse roof, placing the commander in a central position with better visibility and shelter. Although they were wonderful sea-boats, they were notoriously “wet” and every scrap of shelter was welcome! From there, he could speak through portholes directly to the wheelhouse forward and navigator aft. His "instrument panel" consisted of glass windows through which he could observe a compass and the wheelhouse interior."
http://www.bmpt.org.uk/boats/S130/index4.htm

Actually, the helmsman's windows were a decent size considering he just steered on orders from "above"
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bud_scotland/8176751934/http://www.s-boot.net/sboats-kriegsmarine-types.html

The "binocular setup" in the bridge was the torpedo-aiming system but it seemed the basic tactic was still a compensated "point (the Boat) and shoot
Your almost 100% exactly correct, and the only place you are incorrect is that the voice tubes were used on the S-20 class which was the first schnellboot class to have the Captain standing above the wheelhouse behind a spray screen. The S-100 class didnt have the voice tube as the cockpit was directly above and behind the wheelhouse/pilot and the captain could communicate directly without tubes.
the windows in that picture look bigger than they are. Ive been down inside that wheel house and believe me, theyre tiny. I may pop open the secondary windows on either side of the forward looking window as they'll help, but its still a tiny field of view and i'd hate to try and dock one of these things from down there ::LOL::..
The Optical rangefinder was actually quite complex. one lens place a right side up image in the eye piece and the other placed an upside down image in the other eyepiece. when the two images lined up, you had your range. kind of like an old nikon viewfinder. A statement was made by a veteran schnellboot officer on a documentary i watched about the aiming being very precise and requiring a lot of effort. For some reason i cant fathom, it reminded me of the american bombsights where the bombardier took control of the plane to exactly position it for the drop. I've spent two days now driving the boat like it was a torpedo aiming on ai traffic and horrible as i am, it was still pretty apparent that aiming the torps from a half mile out is not easy to do.. so far i havent hit anything..

The windows mentioned for the captain to communicate with the pilot were under hinged metal caps on either side of the rangefinder/compass. They're shown pretty well in the below image.

The problem i need to resolve is, the wheelhouse is anything but optimal for steering the ship. Your head is a foot above deck level and that deck extends thirty feet in front of you.. it's really horrid. So, yeahh, i'll be building the wheelhouse/VC corectly, but frankly, i'm hoping like hell i can find some scrap of information that will give me what i need to make the boat stearable from the cockpit..

91503

The S-20 class

91505

I dont know why the below picture is here. I delet3ed it and including it in the S-20 lineup is incorrect as its the S-151. Please forgive me for my error..
Pam

[warchild]

Just a WAG about the steering? Possibly an autopilot to maintain course or track as these boats operated a lot at night and bad weather for maximum effectiveness. It may be the low somewhat protected steering position was selected for maximum protection in CQB. Many warships of the era relayed helm orders to a remote enclosed piloting position.

Great effort!


T

I'd like to learn more about those steering positions. It makes sense and with larger craft, I can even understand docking as a tug will dock you, but in a small boat like the schnellboot's you were on your own, and even pulling into a slip at Cherbourgh could be a real challenge. Still, is looking more and more likely that thats exactly what happened in the S-100 class. and your absolutely correct about why they lowred the wheelhouse, and covered it in armor as well..

[srgalahad]

Your almost 100% exactly correct, and the only place you are incorrect is that the voice tubes were used on the S-20 class which was the first schnellboot class to have the Captain standing above the wheelhouse behind a spray screen. The S-100 class didnt have the voice tube as the cockpit was directly above and behind the wheelhouse/pilot and the captain could communicate directly without tubes.
the windows in that picture look bigger than they are. Ive been down inside that wheel house and believe me, theyre tiny. I may pop open the secondary windows on either side of the forward looking window as they'll help, but its still a tiny field of view and i'd hate to try and dock one of these things from down there ::LOL::..

The windows mentioned for the captain to communicate with the pilot were under hinged metal caps on either side of the rangefinder/compass. They're shown pretty well in the below image.

Pam, I agree with the chronology, but... while the sprachrohr (speaking tube) was introduced somewhere in the time of the S-20, what I have seen does not indicate that the method was removed in later boats, only that with the windows you mention, it was possible to see and speak directly (as well).

"Improvements were made to the boat's superstructure. On early boats, the commander stood outside on the deck behind a spray shield. Behind him in the wheelhouse stood the helmsman, navigator, radio operator and engine telegraphist. The commander communicated his orders through flexible voice tubes, or via a seaman equipped with an headset intercom. The S-26 class (1940) instituted a 34.9m hull and several design changes. The torpedo tubes were enclosed in a decked-over forecastle, increasing interior space and reserve buoyancy. A cockpit was set into the wheelhouse roof, placing the commander in a centralized position with better visibility and shelter. From there, he could speak through portholes directly to the wheelhouse foward and navigator aft. His "instrument panel" consisted of glass windows through which he could observe a compass and the wheelhouse interior. (Note that there was no steering wheel in the cockpit.) Starting with S-30 (1939) several boats were built with a slightly smaller hull, 32.7m, and with the old style wheelhouse. The S-38 class was a continuation of the S-26 class with simplified ventilators and other minor changes.

Experimentation with S-67 (1942) led to a design for a partially armor plated cupola, the so-called Kalotte (skull cap), over the bridge. The added armor was a countermeasure to the growing firepower of British escort craft encountered in the English channel. This led to an armored bridge variant of the S-38 class, the S-38b which was delivered from the boatyards with the armor already in place. Shortly thereafter, the S-100 class (1943) was designed from the start to incorporate the Kalotte and additional armament..."


In fact, examination of the photos shows the sprachrohr as (probably rubberized, corrugated) tubes with a variety of mouth-pieces:
Compare the one I referenced above being used by the Commander with the tubes shown in these photos:
91523 91524 91525

The middle photo of a late-war boat shows the tubes as have been modeled (in the stowed position) in your pic below. The tube would be more efficient than yelling through a port on a noisy boat with wind whipping everything away in the same way a Gosport tube (same idea) worked in open biplanes. Three tubes are appropriate as shown: 1. Wheelman; 2. Navigator on the starboard side; 3. torpedo officer? engine room as backup to the telegraph? on the port side. (just guessing at layout)


The problem i need to resolve is, the wheelhouse is anything but optimal for steering the ship. Your head is a foot above deck level and that deck extends thirty feet in front of you.. it's really horrid. So, yeahh, i'll be building the wheelhouse/VC corectly, but frankly, i'm hoping like hell i can find some scrap of information that will give me what i need to make the boat stearable from the cockpit..

91503


Think of it as a "system": the viewpoint is the eyes of the Commander on the bridge. Those signals get sent to the 'steering computer' (his brain). Actions are then transmitted via tube to a voice-activated 'steering gear' (seaman standing below holding wheel and connected to throttles and rudder). :icon_lol:
keep it simple -- the eyepoint is on the bridge, the sprachrorh is replaced by a bundle of nerves running from the sim 'pilot' brain down his arm to the 'wheelhouse' (joystick & throttle) I doubt that anyone would practically want to try to steer by using a mouse-over on an animated VC wheel (and the 'wheelman' likely had no command authority at all but simply acted on orders from above) that emulates the real system. Since the S-100 had a second/repeater compass on the bridge as shown it's no problem to get course information anyway (this may have been linked optically/electronically to the aiming system when needed)... Also, on the boats which had radar installed, this short-range system would likely only have a display belowdecks in the wheelhouse. These were, in no way, a single-pilot operation

Unlike the 'traditional' paradigm of a single pilot in front of all controls with direct connection and input, your analogy of the bombardier is closer to the truth and requires either a "two pilot" cockpit in FSX or a work-around that will annoy the various 'rivet counters' -- a pop-up panel emulating the below-deck steering station controls (raising the ire of those who decry pop-ups) or a small (and visually/technically incorrect) discrete wheel/throttle combo to be built into the bridge-deck VC. Don't forget that engine management and firing systems on the real-life S-boot were remote, voice-activated as well - ie commands were transmitted to crew in the engine room and at the guns, torpedo tubes and depthcharge/mine racks by voice/intercom/hand signals so the same applies in simulation. Yes, you can emulate it all with 'shared cockpit' systems but I doubt there are many who would want to run an FSX S-boot this way very often.

[trowelmaster]

@ srgalahad :It' perfect for Underway/NavalEngagement...!:mixedsmi:

[Akktu Stakki04]

and I will now do my Daffy Duck imitation of pulling in my tongue which is lolling for miles this is superb crisp beautiful and all really looking forwad to this. A question which might get me flamed lol but here I go is there any chance it would be backward compatible with us over on Fs9 please say yes that it would be possible if not well might have to go FSX for this one at least for a bit

Akktu

[warchild]

Oh Gods srgalahad, Your absolutely correct. Until i saw your post with the images and the paragraoh defining the cockpit construction i never connected that those tubes were speaking tubes. I didnt know what they were to be honest, but was leaning towards assuming they were wire conduits of some form ( like the corrugated tubes in the P-61 ). Thank you for clarifying that.. I would have been making a major mistake in my construction..

Maybe i can put the co-pilot seat in the cockpit..

[warchild]

and I will now do my Daffy Duck imitation of pulling in my tongue which is lolling for miles this is superb crisp beautiful and all really looking forwad to this. A question which might get me flamed lol but here I go is there any chance it would be backward compatible with us over on Fs9 please say yes that it would be possible if not well might have to go FSX for this one at least for a bit

Akktu

Oh god's Akktu, I really dont know.. No really, i relly dont know. This is my first model for flight simulator. I still have to learn how to animate AND how to texture ( none on there yet, its a raw model your seeing ). Even right now it wouldnt run in fs9 though because theres no textures. I'll see what i can do, but with the learning curve ive given myself already, its probably not going to happen for an fs9 model as that would require learning an entirely seperate SDK and finding a version of Max that can support that SDK.

[trowelmaster]

Oh Gods srgalahad, Your absolutely correct. Until i saw your post with the images and the paragraoh defining the cockpit construction i never connected that those tubes were speaking tubes. I didnt know what they were to be honest, but was leaning towards assuming they were wire conduits of some form ( like the corrugated tubes in the P-61 ). Thank you for clarifying that.. I would have been making a major mistake in my construction..

Maybe i can put the co-pilot seat in the cockpit..

CO-PILOT + 1....sounds great..!:salute:

[warchild]

@ srgalahad :It' perfect for Underway/NavalEngagement...!:mixedsmi:

Want a laugh?? The original designation for the S-boats was a U, so you had U-36, U-523 etc.. These boats were used for laying mines and ASW work. It wasn until S-1 was reclassified as a torpedo boat that they ship gained the now famous S designation.

[trowelmaster]

Want a laugh?? The original designation for the S-boats was a U, so you had U-36, U-523 etc.. These boats were used for laying mines and ASW work. It wasn until S-1 was reclassified as a torpedo boat that they ship gained the now famous S designation.

In 1928, in light of these limitations and the dismal North Sea weather, Naval command elected to concentrate strictly on a round bottomed displacement hull. Their attention was drawn to Oheka II , a highly innovative luxury motor yacht built in 1927 by the German boatyard Luerssen for a Jewish banking tycoon who emmigrated to the United States from Germany. The name "Oheka" originated from a monogram of its owner's name, Otto HErmann KAhn (http://www.newsday.com/community/guide/lihistory/ny-history-hs716a,0,7419844.story). It's round bottomed hull was 22.5 m long, and displaced 22.5 tons. It reached a top speed of 34 knots, making it the world's fastest boat in its class. There is no basis in fact for the common misconception that Oheka II was a "rum runner" used for smuggling. http://www.collectrussia.com/sBoot/Oheka2.jpg
In Oheka II, Luerrsen overcame many of the drawbacks of the round bottomed displacement hull. The boat ploughed through the water by the brute force of three 550hp Maybach engines. The composite use of wood planks over alloy frames reduced weight. The innefficient tendency for round hulls to "squat" stern-down in the water at high speeds was counterbalanced by a hull form that flattened towards the stern, providing hydrodynamic lift where it was needed. Oheka II's combination of speed, strength and seaworthyness was exactly what Naval command wanted. In November 1929, Luerssen was given a contract to build a boat to the same basic design, but with two torpedo tubes on the forecastle, and a slightly improved top speed. http://www.collectrussia.com/sboot/S1.jpgIt was to become S-1, the Kriegsmarine's first Schnellboot and the basis for the all other S-Boats built during World War 2.

[warchild]

In 1928, in light of these limitations and the dismal North Sea weather, Naval command elected to concentrate strictly on a round bottomed displacement hull. Their attention was drawn to Oheka II , a highly innovative luxury motor yacht built in 1927 by the German boatyard Luerssen for a Jewish banking tycoon who emmigrated to the United States from Germany. The name "Oheka" originated from a monogram of its owner's name, Otto HErmann KAhn (http://www.newsday.com/community/guide/lihistory/ny-history-hs716a,0,7419844.story). It's round bottomed hull was 22.5 m long, and displaced 22.5 tons. It reached a top speed of 34 knots, making it the world's fastest boat in its class. There is no basis in fact for the common misconception that Oheka II was a "rum runner" used for smuggling. http://www.collectrussia.com/sBoot/Oheka2.jpg
In Oheka II, Luerrsen overcame many of the drawbacks of the round bottomed displacement hull. The boat ploughed through the water by the brute force of three 550hp Maybach engines. The composite use of wood planks over alloy frames reduced weight. The innefficient tendency for round hulls to "squat" stern-down in the water at high speeds was counterbalanced by a hull form that flattened towards the stern, providing hydrodynamic lift where it was needed. Oheka II's combination of speed, strength and seaworthyness was exactly what Naval command wanted. In November 1929, Luerssen was given a contract to build a boat to the same basic design, but with two torpedo tubes on the forecastle, and a slightly improved top speed. http://www.collectrussia.com/sboot/S1.jpgIt was to become S-1, the Kriegsmarine's first Schnellboot and the basis for the all other S-Boats built during World War 2.

And she's still beautiful to this very day..

I think perhaps you may also enjoy reading through this site ( http://www.prinzeugen.com/DesignManufacture.htm ). It has tons of information nd some surprising facts, such as the version of th boat built by Lurrsen for the Bulgarian navy.

[trowelmaster]

Way ahead of you Pam, thank's though....

[Seahawk72s]

Hi,
Such a beautiful design, have you thought of bringing her back out from the yard...?


Scenes from WarThunder...

https://warthunder.com/en/news/4204-development-s-100-1945-master-of-the-seas-en

[warchild]

They got THAT in war thunder?? They sure know how too tease someone.. Truth is Yes! I have given it a great deal of thought. Theres three things that are stopping me right now.. I just got rid of a dangerous virus from my system. In the end it cost me almost everything i had, including possibly, the meshes for this boat. Theres one drive thats not in my computer at the moment. On one partition, theres the virus, on the other partition, theres a ton of my applications and files, and hopefully, the mesh will be on there. the second thing i need is a modeler willing to button up all the places where theres gaps in the mesh. Mostly at junctions where a wall meets or runs into another wall.. Not really noticeable but i can see them.. Also wouldnt mind having the pilot house fitted out better. My simpleton skills are no match for what this boat deserves. And lastly, it really needs someone who knows their way around making textures and uv maps.. Let me try and find people who can do those things, once i find the mesh, and i'll be happy to re-release it..

[AussieMan]

I keep getting invalid link specified.

[warchild]

I dont know which version your trying to get.. I thought i had uploaded it here, but i could be mistaken. I dont remember so well any more. However it doesnt exist on this server any more. In fact, even Lazarus's S-15 is gone.. Not sure whats up with that.. .There is a version available on the web, but the guy fiddleed with the model and removed the compass from th flying bridge and centering the view point instead of having it in the customary captains position on the left.He also made it umm, tiger striped.. ::oh well..

One thing i can say for certain. If the blurb states its a highly detailed ship, its the modified version. I would never say that about anything i build that isnt made out of numbers..

[stansdds]

I keep getting invalid link specified.

That's because this is a necro post. This post was from 2013 and now it's back from the grave.

[Seahawk72s]

I can appreciate your frustration, not only with the virus's impact but the position of the helmsman and his limited visibility.
I decided to try an upgrade to the Riva 2D panel, put in some German gauges and a different view. Its a WIP solely for enjoyment
and has no basis for reality. The crew also enjoys water skiing on sunny days as well...

Almost missed that the torpedo doors open....thanks...!

[warchild]

No thanks needed Seahawk. Originally, there were supposed to be two 53cm torpedo's coming out of those tubes, but i'm really only lucky with numbrs and with other things, not so good.. I couldnt figure out how to make an effct that would launch the torps.. for the time, i think i had some cutting edge idea's. I just didnt have the knowledge to pull it off.. OOps!.. I still have my fingers crossed that its on one of these drives laying around here.. :)..

[UnknownGuest12]

I keep getting invalid link specified.

Me too...unable to open pictures on post #1
"Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator (http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/sendmessage.php)"
Regards

[warchild]

Those picks would be over five years old by this time.. It's a whole new world for the outhouse, photobucket, everyone.. those links are gone not due to anyone mishandling of them, but the very nature of the web itself.

[Seahawk72s]

Here is Warchild's S-100, prebeta release.
With his gracious permission of course....


https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_6l7fioU_PRbkUtNU5sODQzZlk

[Seahawk72s]

I've tried a little repaint and find myself really loving this boat.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed that you can find the resource files to bring her to fruition.
Don't mind the color on the stern, that's just me finding what is where.

[huub vink]

Its definitely a very nice model and thank you for doing a repaint for it!

Huub

[warchild]

I like the way that repaint brings out the detail on the boat. I used white because oddly enough, the Kriegsmarine found that white disappears against the water at night time ( truth ). Could you possibly do another repaint?? This one would be a much lighter grey over all with deep green grey fore and aft decks while the walkways too the left and right of the pilot house are wooden planks and the non slip planking below the guns are round.. If you could, that would be awesome.. Not sure about the red green and yellow on the mine ramp though ::lol::
I hear someone made a bow wave effect, that this boat desperately needs.. She should have a bow wake coming half way up her freeboard as she plows her nose slightly into the air ( its a 200000 pound boat guys.. it doesnt fly well ).

[warchild]

Its definitely a very nice model and thank you for doing a repaint for it!

Huub
Glad you and others are liking it Huub. Thank you .. it's very appreciated..

[Seahawk72s]

.... This one would be a much lighter grey over all with deep green grey fore and aft decks while the walkways too the left and right of the pilot house are wooden planks and the non slip planking below the guns are round..

Can you do me a favor and give me a sample of the color grey and deep green you are looking for...?

I have been trying to add more wooden planks on and around the pilot house but I think some textures are missing.
Using ModelConverterX I get errors about missing DDS texture files.

What I wish is that someone who knows what they are doing could check what objects are missing textures and map new ones.
If you know someone who could help..?

Until that happens I'll try making some new texture files and rename to those missing. Pretty much hunt and peck.

[Milton Shupe]

Hi Pam,

I agree; well done model and yes, it floats and drives very well. :-) Nice "flight model".

I pulled it up in MCX and it does show some missing textures so if you find the source, maybe you can surface those missing texture names shown in the attachment.

SH72, if you look at the object report, it will show you what objects have materials. The objects that show a color are without materials.

You can isolate those objects to see which ones they are; there are many.

[warchild]

Hi Pam,

I agree; well done model and yes, it floats and drives very well. :-) Nice "flight model".

I pulled it up in MCX and it does show some missing textures so if you find the source, maybe you can surface those missing texture names shown in the attachment.

SH72, if you look at the object report, it will show you what objects have materials. The objects that show a color are without materials.

You can isolate those objects to see which ones they are; there are many.

Knowing how confused and lazy i was getting, I can only speculate that the objects without textures were assigned materials in 3DS Max, that were of that type and color material. At least this would b true for everything except the walkways to the left and right of the pilot house. Those were wood. whether they were dark or light to begin with i dont know as salt water has an interesting effect on different woods. I can speculate that they were some deeper color of mahogany as the entire ship is made from a very special and rather rare mahogany grown by the company who made the boats.
As too the colors themselves, My reference materials from years ago were much different than whats available now. Mostly i had pictures of hyper expensive models with brass fittings to use for reference and historical documentation. However, with the exception of the red stripes on the fore deck, I am confident that this model below is painted correctly with the correct colors..


http://www.modelwarships.com/features/ships/s-100/006.jpg

Oh, and the torpedoes on the model are wrong, but everyone gets that wrong because theyre accustomed to american torpedo's

https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3212/2459321905_b207c21f9d_b.jpg

[warchild]

Oh Gods. Milton.. Thank you.. I must apologize as ive been a complete space cadet this afternoon.. running around all morning plain took it out of me i'm afraid..
Now if anyone can take the mdl file and regress it back to an editable mesh, please feel free.. I no longer have 3ds max nor the skills to use it. I've changed a lot in the last five years. I'm sorry for that..
Pam

[Seahawk72s]

.. However, with the exception of the red stripes on the fore deck, I am confident that this model below is painted correctly with the correct colors..


http://www.modelwarships.com/features/ships/s-100/006.jpg

Oh, and the torpedoes on the model are wrong, but everyone gets that wrong because they're accustomed to American torpedo's



Are there any other pictures of this model..?
Any idea what the color is below the waterline..?

[warchild]

Are there any other pictures of this model..?
Any idea what the color is below the waterline..?

Yes indeed. There are hundreds of images. Some of them are built by home builders, some by historians, some by kids who figured it would be fun to dabble.. Some have black bottoms which are not likely to have been done as black lead was not that abundant. Some are red lead, and are painted red on the model, and some are the correct red lead showing a slight copper color. It's this last that i believe is historically correct as red lead was abundant and very effective against toredo worms in shallow bay area's. Toredo worms are the nemesis of wooden boats. they bore into the wood then sideways through the grain while they multiply.. At som point the bottom detaches from the ship and you have a mess..
There are also black and whirtes taken at Cherbourgh in WWII bt someone with better eyes than I would have to look at the waterline and see if they detect more than a black line with a red bottom..

https://www.google.com/search?q=Kriegsmarine+schnellboot+s-100&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiH4IK4vtjWAhVGHGMKHShBBvcQ_AUICigB&biw=1363&bih=638#imgrc=_

[warchild]

https://i.imgur.com/GNhldyH.jpg

[warchild]

and then theres this thing.. Everything on this model is correct from the ammo cns on the frot 20mm to the 40mm flak gun in the back. You really dont want to know how much it costs.. The Italeri Schnellboot S-100. its almost a legend by itself..

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/cd/59/e0/cd59e046b274e61894fa8dc566b45468.jpg

[oldpropfan]

Ah, that beautiful 3 ft monster of a kit! Amazingly enough they also did a PT boat and a Vosper MTB in 1/35 scale too. All are still available with a little searching although the S-100 is now running around $200. I've found the PT and MTB at around $110, actually not too bad considering the prices of scale models these days.

[warchild]

thats actually a good price for the MTB and the PT.. But 200 dollars for a model?? Thats a little pricey ;)

[warchild]

Seahawk.. Here's the grey I was talking about. Not too far off white, but enough to make everything pop on th page.. And my apologies about not getting it last night. I was pretty wiped out and confused..

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/88/63/7a/88637aa81751ffbcda778dcbc7b00ec0.jpg

[warchild]

Currently downloading the solomons scenery for testing the boat. I made a few changes to the FDE and changed the wake effect. I'm still looking for something that does an even remotely believable bow wake.. The boat is slightly faster at the moment, which to be honest, may not be historical, but island hopping in the solomons its a god sent miracle.. However, I'll drop that down later to its historical value of 44 knots ( of which the survivors who were on the ship, swear it never went over 42 ). The problem is that the prow rides too low. The engines would push this boat up out of the water by a good two feet on full speed. Our little boat didnt even come out of the water.. So, now i'm playing around trying to get the boat to behave like its real life counterpart.. Mostly I'm doing amateur stuff while I relearn or try to relearn the skills i lost. Please bear with me..

https://i.imgur.com/pJOjF0G.png

[Seahawk72s]

First Pass

[warchild]

::LOL:: You nailed that deck texture. Great job..
The beautiful thing about these boats, is that the way they were painted was left completely up to the Korvettenkapitän ( OK, i copied and pasted because I cant spell it ::LOL:: ), or, in other words the skipper of the boat. I can only assume that it was "highly" recommended that they follow the guidelines set forth by the kriegsmarine. for the most part though, wht you have in the above pictures, is the typical coloration. Sometimes the skippers initials would be painted in the side of the pilot house, most times they werent.

[Seahawk72s]

Look to PM for link to new textures...

[warchild]

whataya think??

https://i.imgur.com/VLOdKiO.png

[Seahawk72s]

whataya think??

https://i.imgur.com/VLOdKiO.png

Very nice..!
Going to put your initials on the bridge...?

[warchild]

Very nice..!
Going to put your initials on the bridge...?

Nahhh... If it wasnt for you it wouldnt look like this.. I like it. I just added the correct insignia on the outside :)..

[Seahawk72s]

A non realistic set of bridge controls, but its fun to have separate control over the three engines.
Now if I can figure out an overboard discharge tied to the engines..

Mounted a set of landing/spot lights near the running lights.
No idea where the S-100 would have carried a spot light.

[warchild]

I was thinking about that today. Yes, it's a type 100 schnellboot. It is historically accurate in a few ways, but theres where it ends. The boat rides on four pontoons acting like hydrofoils to support and lift it because if they werent there, the ship would fall straight through the water. The props are constant speed because you cant reverse the transmisions or even go into neutral. You can reverse constant sped props only. How do you reduce the speed of a constant speed prop? You reduce the rpm and the manifold pressure. And therein lies the rub. It's true the engineer had a complete wall of gauges that gave him the data on the engines, and I'm sure rpm and manifold pressure are amongst them, but i've only got a very simple set of gauges in the wheelhouse. So, to slow this boat down, you reduce the throttle AND the rpm. To stop it, you reverse the props.. It mimics a boat very well, and I'll admit, i'm quite proud of my accomplishment, Bit there are so many areas where its operation takes a distinct left turn at Albuquerque it isnt funny.. The panel is definitely not period and I would prefer it in the wheelhouse, but without taking the model apart, thats pretty impossible. still, what i need is an rpm gauge and a manifold pressure gauge.. thats pretty much all I need in the conning tower above the wheelhouse. Speed I dont worry about. The boat can cruise 795 miles round trip ( hmmm, autopilot?? ) I can get around 460 - 530 miles a full speed. Like I said in my PM, full speed right now is 52 knots because FSX keeps lowering the boat down to forty knots, for over a third of the time. the two speeds average out somewhere around 44 knots constant. sill, spending a few hours on flat water is almost as boring as sitting at 40000 feet at night time for a long haul flight. It's the rivers, canals and passages that get exciting. and thats where you nee those gauges..
Anyway, I'm exhausted and talking in circles.. I'm sorry.. I think the gauges are great.. Thank you :)..
talk soon
Pam

PS.. The S-100 didnt carry a spotlight, and yes, a fw ended up on a river bank here and there.. If anything, there would have been a hand held signal light in the coning tower. The S-10 series hd spotlights and probably the S-15 and 15 as well, but this model didnt have one..

[Seahawk72s]

I was thinking about that today. Yes, it's a type 100 schnellboot. It is historically accurate in a few ways, but theres where it ends. The boat rides on four pontoons acting like hydrofoils to support and lift it because if they werent there, the ship would fall straight through the water. The props are constant speed because you cant reverse the transmisions or even go into neutral. You can reverse constant sped props only. How do you reduce the speed of a constant speed prop? You reduce the rpm and the manifold pressure. And therein lies the rub. It's true the engineer had a complete wall of gauges that gave him the data on the engines, and I'm sure rpm and manifold pressure are amongst them, but i've only got a very simple set of gauges in the wheelhouse. So, to slow this boat down, you reduce the throttle AND the rpm. To stop it, you reverse the props.. It mimics a boat very well, and I'll admit, i'm quite proud of my accomplishment, Bit there are so many areas where its operation takes a distinct left turn at Albuquerque it isnt funny.. The panel is definitely not period and I would prefer it in the wheelhouse, but without taking the model apart, thats pretty impossible. still, what i need is an rpm gauge and a manifold pressure gauge.. thats pretty much all I need in the conning tower above the wheelhouse. Speed I dont worry about. The boat can cruise 795 miles round trip ( hmmm, autopilot?? ) I can get around 460 - 530 miles a full speed. Like I said in my PM, full speed right now is 52 knots because FSX keeps lowering the boat down to forty knots, for over a third of the time. the two speeds average out somewhere around 44 knots constant. sill, spending a few hours on flat water is almost as boring as sitting at 40000 feet at night time for a long haul flight. It's the rivers, canals and passages that get exciting. and thats where you nee those gauges..
Anyway, I'm exhausted and talking in circles.. I'm sorry.. I think the gauges are great.. Thank you :)..
talk soon
Pam

PS.. The S-100 didnt carry a spotlight, and yes, a fw ended up on a river bank here and there.. If anything, there would have been a hand held signal light in the coning tower. The S-10 series hd spotlights and probably the S-15 and 15 as well, but this model didnt have one..


I need to rethink the panel.
3 RPM and 3 Manifold pressure gauges no problem.
Do you want throttle handles..? That will be more difficult...for a single throw that can move into reverse...

I could do a quasi pop-up engineer panel with the rest of the instruments..

[warchild]

I need to rethink the panel.
3 RPM and 3 Manifold pressure gauges no problem.
Do you want throttle handles..? That will be more difficult...for a single throw that can move into reverse...

I could do a quasi pop-up engineer panel with the rest of the instruments..

Nahh, I dont need throttles.. I gotta admit though, that panel in your picture sure looks sweet.
Reardinh the weird projection above the center view port, It doesnt exist. Its one of those gimmicks that companies sometimes use to make you feel like your getting something authentic, when in reality you arent: like the blue bathing suit on the girl on Lady in the dark.. Proper color is red..

http://s-boot.net/pics/kriegsmarine/S-65%2002.jpg

[napamule]

Quote: 'To stop it, you reverse the props..'

Well FSX lets you use the spoiler as a 'water brake' if you make 'spoiler=59.989' in cfg and 'spoiler drag=3000' (or 5000) in air file. You can be moving at 40 kts on, say, approach to a river bank, deploy the spoiler, and then reduce throttle and go into reverse while turning the wheel to do neat manuevering.
Chuck B
Napamule

[Seahawk72s]

Possible S100 wheel house before armored "Skull Cap" was fitted..

[Bjoern]

I need to rethink the panel.
3 RPM and 3 Manifold pressure gauges no problem.
Do you want throttle handles..? That will be more difficult...for a single throw that can move into reverse...

I could do a quasi pop-up engineer panel with the rest of the instruments..

Since the shape is the same as the running lights, I assume it's the white top light.

http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/boatlites.gif

[Seahawk72s]

Since the shape is the same as the running lights, I assume it's the white top light.

http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/boatlites.gif

Thanks... I can't think off any FS light that would be limited like that...

[warchild]

yeah, the mast top light is located at the top of the mast, behind and right of center of the conning station ( tower?? where the captain stands ). It's mostly used for in port night time deck work.

[warchild]

So now i've done it. i've gone and let the devil in the door. I found basic data on the engines today. OOPs!!.. 14 feet long, 5.5 feet wide, 7 feet high, 20 cylinders, 8000 cu/in displacement, supercharged, 2500 hp @ 1630 rpm monsters. On my first test run, I reached the moon. so, I'm back to the basics, and all because i want the thing to slow down and stop when i reduce the throttle to zero. Oy.. also it doesnt roll for ****e. this is a wet deck boat with a narrow round bottom. It should roll when you go into a turn. I'll be working on that as well, once i can drive it again.

[warchild]

Possible S100 wheel house before armored "Skull Cap" was fitted..

good find seahawk, but thats on an S-14 or an S38 class.. S-100s were never converted. They were built with the hardshell in place..

[Seahawk72s]

good find seahawk, but thats on an S-14 or an S38 class.. S-100s were never converted. They were built with the hardshell in place..

I guess what I'm thinking is I wonder how much they changed the wheel house from an S38 to S100..?

[Seahawk72s]

Here is what I'm thinking about for the revised panel.

1) The basic cockpit with just icons for pop-ups.
2) A small console pop-up with the tachs, MPs & Speed.
I will revise it tomorrow to make the gauges bigger in the same size console.
3) Don't mind all the switches. I've been making more switches to cover experiments with different lights.
For example a deck light for port and red VC lights for the helmsman and cockpit.
4) The engineers pop-up console with more engine controls including fuel shut off, start buttons, fuel/oil pressure,
coolant temp, etc.
5) The rest of the original pop-ups, radios, compass, GPS, etc.

[warchild]

I like it. Lots. good job..
I put the boat through afsd as suggested to me by Bjoern and saw that there was only 6.98 inches of Manofold pressure, then realized, this things a diesel. it has fuel injection. Diesels dont suck.. So THAT part is cool. It's arunning low top end of 39 knots and high top end of 49 knots, so, that averages out to 44, 45 knots after we remove microsofts bullhockey, and thats cool too.. Theres two parts that together, have me stumped at the moment. I reprogrammed the engines in both the config and the airfile, to official specification ( MB-511 https://oldmachinepress.com/2017/03/05/mercedes-benz-500-series-diesel-marine-engines/ ) and the numbers are off the charts. 26000 pounds of thrust. 12000 rpm on the propeller. and the ship simply wont slow down. it's like its on perpetual diesel runaway, and with a fresh supply of cold water to keep it from burning itself up, it'll run till the gas runs out, in about Ohhh, 800 miles.. I just dont get it. SO, I'll keep working on that tomorrow. It occured to me that when i was growing up on the Illinois river that many of the river boats that went up and down it were little more than flat platforms ( and expensive furniture ) sitting on top of pontoons, so, maybe this thing is a boat after all..

[Milton Shupe]

I like it. Lots. good job..
I put the boat through afsd as suggested to me by Bjoern and saw that there was only 6.98 inches of Manofold pressure, then realized, this things a diesel. it has fuel injection. Diesels dont suck.. So THAT part is cool. It's arunning low top end of 39 knots and high top end of 49 knots, so, that averages out to 44, 45 knots after we remove microsofts bullhockey, and thats cool too.. Theres two parts that together, have me stumped at the moment. I reprogrammed the engines in both the config and the airfile, to official specification ( MB-511 https://oldmachinepress.com/2017/03/05/mercedes-benz-500-series-diesel-marine-engines/ ) and the numbers are off the charts. 26000 pounds of thrust. 12000 rpm on the propeller. and the ship simply wont slow down. it's like its on perpetual diesel runaway, and with a fresh supply of cold water to keep it from burning itself up, it'll run till the gas runs out, in about Ohhh, 800 miles.. I just dont get it. SO, I'll keep working on that tomorrow. It occured to me that when i was growing up on the Illinois river that many of the river boats that went up and down it were little more than flat platforms ( and expensive furniture ) sitting on top of pontoons, so, maybe this thing is a boat after all..

Direct drive propellers or gear reductions?

[warchild]

Thats a very good question sir. I wanted to make it direct drive, as the only gear reduction values i could find were for the daimler benz DB602; a 1300 pound little brother to the MB-511 ( which weights 10000 pounds ) except made for aviation purposes. It has a gear reduction of 1.5:1, which i'm experimenting with right now. The main issue i'm having is that when the "flight" first starts, the boat is well behaved and sits there like a good little boy scout. But as soon as you increase the throttle, thats it. You accelerate to 44 knots and stay there, no matter what you do too the throttle..
Afsd is giving me the most insane readouts and frankly, I'm completely confused..

In the photo below, afsd is on the left. the center is aircraft.cfg and the right is the air file.. I've got my ducks in a row, they're just wild ducks..

https://i.imgur.com/DUPoLw6.png

[Milton Shupe]

I would suggest getting RPM readouts correct first. That diesel has turned into a turbine at 45842 shaft rpms. :-)

I t would probably help I reckon to add a bunch of Prop MOI as those things were seriously heavy. That might help slow down those 20- 410 Cu In cylinders.

EDIT: Are you certain the prop diameter is correct, or could it be a single blade diameter you read. Those propellers are huge.

[Willy]

I've worked and been an engineer on several WW2 era "small boats", landing craft and tugboats. Quite a few of those old boats were still in use in the 80s. Most diesel engines of the period ran with very slow rpm. The US ones of the period, 1800 rpm is what the governors were set to for normal use on the smaller ones. Larger engines tended to run slower (the mains on the tugs ran 720 rpm max, idled about 250 ish)

On reversing, variable pitch propellers were invented in the 20s, but I'm not sure when they came into use on boats though or if anyone actually used them in WW2 as most examples I ever ran into were postwar builds.

The schnellboots are the best looking and designed torpedo boats of their period IMO. If this can be released, I'm going boating and will have to add a boatyard behind the Merc Air hanger.


(One of our running gags back in the CFS 1 online days in the Cantina here was about a Merc Air affiliated Kriegsmarine E-boat skipper we called "Gunter" and how much he'd charge for "rescues" of pilots shot down over the Channel.)

[warchild]

I've worked and been an engineer on several WW2 era "small boats", landing craft and tugboats. Quite a few of those old boats were still in use in the 80s. Most diesel engines of the period ran with very slow rpm. The US ones of the period, 1800 rpm is what the governors were set to for normal use on the smaller ones. Larger engines tended to run slower (the mains on the tugs ran 720 rpm max, idled about 250 ish)

On reversing, variable pitch propellers were invented in the 20s, but I'm not sure when they came into use on boats though or if anyone actually used them in WW2 as most examples I ever ran into were postwar builds.

The schnellboots are the best looking and designed torpedo boats of their period IMO. If this can be released, I'm going boating and will have to add a boatyard behind the Merc Air hanger.


(One of our running gags back in the CFS 1 online days in the Cantina here was about a Merc Air affiliated Kriegsmarine E-boat skipper we called "Gunter" and how much he'd charge for "rescues" of pilots shot down over the Channel.)

We'll be releasing it at some point Willy.. I've got very poor skills any more but I'm pretty determined. It'll never be a "great" boat as there are many things I'm not, and I'm not a 3D artist, and I'm not a painter. But, someone had to build it. Right?? Paul Dominique did the hull and turtle-back for me and forbid me from saying anything, but its been five years.. I built everything else. But that was a long time ago and i've grown much more limited in ability than i was.. Bear with me.. we'll get it out there..
Pam

[Seahawk72s]

Still working on the gauges and lights.
Took her out for a night spin.
Have overboard water discharge effect tied to engine operation.
Since you took the "Cat", needed to give him/her some competition...lol

[warchild]

I would suggest getting RPM readouts correct first. That diesel has turned into a turbine at 45842 shaft rpms. :-)

I t would probably help I reckon to add a bunch of Prop MOI as those things were seriously heavy. That might help slow down those 20- 410 Cu In cylinders.

EDIT: Are you certain the prop diameter is correct, or could it be a single blade diameter you read. Those propellers are huge.

Thats the surprising thing. Last night while i was researching it i found data that indicated the props on S38 had an MOI of 6.98. That made no sense to me at all.. My Original calculations based on the estimated diameter placed the MOI at 109, BUT, that diameter turns out to be little more than a laymans observation ( and an eyeball guess at that ) because somehow, magically, prop diameters change while the boat is running. At least, thats what was being said in an article i read about what to consider when buying a prop for your boat..
In a sense, I can understand certain things about props. It's like, it takes very little force to turn a screw through a piece of wood, but the amount of longitudinal force it applies to that wood, is amazing. the same would apply to the propeller on a boat. If I look down from above on a propeller, it's almost like the blades and stem were carved from a single cube of brass as theyre almost as deep, as they are tall.. Unlike aircraft propellers, these things are literally screws designed for water.. they have very little resistance but they move a lot of water, and it seems that they use the waters in-compress-ability as a means to propel the boat as they move water through their blades, and push it against the water behind them. But heh. I know i've got a screw loose so i'm most likely wrong..
So the beam on the s-100 was 16.6 feet. There are three screws across that which combined cover between 75% to 80% of that breadth, so your correct. those screws were at least 4 feet wide and more likely 4.5 feet wide each.
now how much that block of brass weighs is another question. I would estimate around 450 pounds to 500 pounds each, based on that simple diameter and weight, the MOI comes out to being 71.0, unless I made some early morning before coffee mistake, which is quite possible.. that moi estimate is based on a roll coefficient of .238 with a diamets of 4.5 and a length of 4. somehow weight never seems to come into play when doing moi's for fsx.. I dont understand that. If I factor in the weight, that 71 all of a sudden turns into something more along the lines of 800, because the moi of a screw is going to be based more on weight and resistence with the resistence of the water at five feet depth being approx. 18 pounds per cubic inch and the 450 pounds of the prop all applying torque against the engine, (((627875.7764 ))) which could explain why we need 8000 cu inches of displacement to turn one screw.. Again, i'm probably wrong.. Theres nothing more dangerous than an idiot with a calculator, but hey, you may have saved me here.. Let me give that result a try..

[Willy]

20 years of Naval engineering and if someone told me that the screw diameter changes when turning, I'd have looked at them like they'd landed on their head in the bilges from the top of the mast.

Just as a "reference point", on a US Navy 50ft Utility boat, the screw was about 18" wide, turned by a 210hp Gray Marine 6-71 2 stroke diesel governed to about 1800rpm normal maximum. The transmission (like most boat transmissions) was just for providing a reverse function, so the screw would also have turned at 1800rpm. At 1800 rpm with a clean bottom and calm water, 10 to 12 kts was about as fast as it would go.

The older WW2 engines had an "emergency" setting on the governor that would allow a few more hundred rpm, but I'm unsure of the HP as it was years ago.

[warchild]

Thanks willy. I mean, I've got lots of reason to doubt myself, but jeez.. I think what that article was doing was taking cavitation ( ? ) into account, which can grow beyond the diameter of the prop, and if the prop is shaped right, even shrink to within the diameter of the prop. I think what they were talking about wasnt so much the physical prop itself, but the cylinder {??} of thrust it creates..
I'm pretty certain of the 4.5 foot diameter and rpm is given at 1630 max. Its the weight i'm not able to estimate as I dont normally try to lift blocks of brass that size..I can imagine that they weigh around 600 pounds each but thats as wild a guess as i've ever made..

[warchild]

Hey Willy.. You said you were a marine engineer?? Wanna give this thing a shake down and tell me where i'm off and what i need to do??

[warchild]

Still working on the gauges and lights.
Took her out for a night spin.
Have overboard water discharge effect tied to engine operation.
Since you took the "Cat", needed to give him/her some competition...lol

I love it.. Actualy, since i dont have any teeth, maybe i should have a picture of Snagglepuss on there ::LOL::... I'm satill ripping deeper and deeper into the fde.. I finally got it to slow down when i reduce the throttle, without using reversing props or spoilers ( that i'm aware of ), but she's still a very troubled little girl.. I've asked Willy if he'd be willing to shred it for me and tell me where i'm wrong so i can fix it. Milton got me moving in the right direction ( thank you Milton :) )but it's still pretty rough.. Didnt know you were partial to cats too.. You do know those are flotilla insignia right?? Ther boat I'm driving is the Lang, but i left the giant H and the word Lang off the turtleback as I dont really like it :).. Truth told, we'd both be wearing Panthers unless you dropped by Cherbourgh to visit.. ..

[Willy]

How many blades on the prop? I'm assuming it was brass or bronze.

[Willy]

A prop for a 80ft Elco PT boat:

Outboards: 30" diameter/30" pitch, Center: 28" diameter/28.5" pitch

Weight: 61lbs

I'm not so sure that the Schnellboat prop would be 4.5ft. I'm thinking it should be a lot smaller.

[warchild]

S-130 was 114 feet long, 16.6 feet wide and weighed 200000 pounds ( mahogany, go fig )..

it really is massive.. Could be either bronze or brass but I'm assuming brass..

http://www.jlunderwater.co.uk/piclib/y2008/m09/d22/08_09_22_1817_s.jpg

This is about 14 feet of bottom with all the props in place..

http://www.collectrussia.com/sBoot/chip13.jpg

So yeah, they're big. If i put them edge to edge, they'd take up between 75 and 80% of the entire beam so i'm thinking 4.5 feet is close.. could be wrong..

[Willy]

No wonder they were so fast. There's enough prop there for a destroyer.

Very fast pitched too!

[warchild]

yeahhh, I'm thinking 60* or so, but fsx doesnt like that. 60* wont move me an inch, at least not with fixed pitch. I'm thinking the solution to that particular hurdle is to mathematically reduce the depth of the prop to that of a standard aircraft prop and take a measurement of the degrees at that point. I'm guessing between 30 and 40*. I dont know really..

I dont know what the fastest conventional ship is in the navy as i know some of those numbers are classified, but i do knopw that the dutch had a patrol boat in the seventies ( Willimoes class ) that could easily do better than 45 knots.. The video below tries saying theyre doing 40 knots, but i dont believe them. you can hear the turbines spinning up when they reach a point they will no longer swamp the camera boat..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uadJGuBIRI

[Seahawk72s]

I noticed with engine start-up there is a brief puff of smoke.
From what I can tell this is happening just about where the stbd. underwater exhaust is..?
How is this happening as I don't see any smoke or effect defined in the aircraft.cfg.

From the drawing the two exhausts on the port side are under water with some form of water discharge,
above water line for each engine..?

[Seahawk72s]

Did gauge work, cosmetics on the panel and added two hatches.
Just about have the gauges ready to send the whole thing over to you for a try.

[warchild]

I noticed with engine start-up there is a brief puff of smoke.
From what I can tell this is happening just about where the stbd. underwater exhaust is..?
How is this happening as I don't see any smoke or effect defined in the aircraft.cfg.

From the drawing the two exhausts on the port side are under water with some form of water discharge,
above water line for each engine..?

I've noticed that too, and too be honest, I havent a clue where its coming from.. It'll be something i have to figure out once it can fully reverse .

[warchild]

Did gauge work, cosmetics on the panel and added two hatches.
Just about have the gauges ready to send the whole thing over to you for a try.

I dont have the gauge yet. didnt know you sent it.. My bad.. Been so deep into this fde i've been sort of out of it.. Let me look again..

[Seahawk72s]

I dont have the gauge yet. didnt know you sent it.. My bad.. Been so deep into this fde i've been sort of out of it.. Let me look again..

Not sent yet, give me about an hour...

[warchild]

So you guys have -probably been wondering what i've been doing the last couple days since i've been so quiet.. Floundering would be the truth of it, though in that floundering, we've made some good headway.. Regardless of the sound, The engines are no longer turbine based, and the props are fixed.
The throtte works in conjunction with the F1 - F4 keys which provide your power band settings for low speed through emergency speed. The throttle itself divides the the joystck throttle in half with foward being from 50% throttle to 100% and reverse being 50% throttle to 0%, with 50% throttle being Idle.. Speeds range from complete stop, through the "oh my god if you dont slow down we're all gonna die anyway " range.. I still have to get it to back out of a slip, so thats next..
In the mean time.. I'm no videographer so i apologize for the bumps jiggles false start and abrupt ending, but none the less, I hope you enjoy..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqsXClhiUj4&amp;feature=youtu.be

[Bjoern]

I noticed with engine start-up there is a brief puff of smoke.
From what I can tell this is happening just about where the stbd. underwater exhaust is..?
How is this happening as I don't see any smoke or effect defined in the aircraft.cfg.

Probably a fall back effect to compensate for the lack of effects that were defined in the aircraft.cfg.
Origin is the engine location, as defined in the aircraft.cfg (same for engine fires, btw).


From the drawing the two exhausts on the port side are under water with some form of water discharge,
above water line for each engine..?

Looks about right. Exhaust under water -> no smoke -> less observability.

(A one way valve ensures water tightness when no exhaust gas pressure is present, in case you're wondering.)

[warchild]

There are actually several puffs of smoke happening.. Yes, there are the three smoke trails coming off the engines, but Steves bow wave effect also uses smoke as part of the effect.. in fact, all of the smoke generated is part of the various wake and bow effects that the boat currently uses.. That will change as I port this over to P3D . I havent had a lot of time to look at it, but something tells me that P3D is going to be a little bit more complex that just hanging floats under the boat and adding a special effect.

Last night, I found the original mesh for the boat. I'll need to tool up, but it means we can finish the boat and correct all the errors and animations, as well as do a complete UV map and bring you all new textures. It should also allow me to do a native port to P3D, where once its there, I can turn around and update the FSX FDE..

[Seahawk72s]

......Last night, I found the original mesh for the boat. I'll need to tool up, but it means we can finish the boat and correct all the errors and animations, as well as do a complete UV map and bring you all new textures. It should also allow me to do a native port to P3D, where once its there, I can turn around and update the FSX FDE..

Congratulations..!
Very good news.......:wiggle:

[Seahawk72s]

I corrected the textures and effects for overboard discharge.

EDIT: I now have each drain effect associated with its own engine..
Shut one engine down, the effect stops.

Discovered back in 2009.
http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/threads/independent-multiple-smoke-fx.14592/

[warchild]

very very nice :)

[Seahawk72s]

Playing with more effects, strictly as proof of concept...
Mild engine smoke while running, all 3 weapons fire plus the engine water discharge..

[Milton Shupe]

There are actually several puffs of smoke happening.. Yes, there are the three smoke trails coming off the engines, but Steves bow wave effect also uses smoke as part of the effect.. in fact, all of the smoke generated is part of the various wake and bow effects that the boat currently uses.. That will change as I port this over to P3D . I havent had a lot of time to look at it, but something tells me that P3D is going to be a little bit more complex that just hanging floats under the boat and adding a special effect.

Last night, I found the original mesh for the boat. I'll need to tool up, but it means we can finish the boat and correct all the errors and animations, as well as do a complete UV map and bring you all new textures. It should also allow me to do a native port to P3D, where once its there, I can turn around and update the FSX FDE..


Pam, really happy that you found the source. I appreciate the efforts to resuscitate this project. Very nice indeed! :applause:

[warchild]

Pam, really happy that you found the source. I appreciate the efforts to resuscitate this project. Very nice indeed! :applause:

Thanks Milton.. It's a challenge, but i think i can do it.. Seriously.. With as much trouble as the engines alone are giving me, i'm glad it isnt more complicated :LOL: i took a look at max too.. its familiar and yet a lot of stuff i couldnt remember, so it'll be a challenge too, but thats ok.. :)

[SH427]

As a lover of all things Schnellboote if you are in need of a P3D tester, please let me know!

[warchild]

As a lover of all things Schnellboote if you are in need of a P3D tester, please let me know!

Consider yourself hired, but it'll be a while as P3D handles watercraft a whole lot differently than FSX does and I need to learn how to port it over..

[Seahawk72s]

I have "wake" effects based on smoke gauges with boat speed control but for some reason all "spray" effects tried
just run all the time ignoring the gauge control.
(Spray effect was commented out for two of the pics.

Any thoughts...?....:dizzy:

[warchild]

I'll be the first to admit that i am ignorant when it comes to effects.. But maybe someone here has some ideas..

[Seahawk72s]

I have "wake" effects based on smoke gauges with boat speed control but for some reason all "spray" effects tried
just run all the time ignoring the gauge control.
(Spray effect was commented out for two of the pics.

Any thoughts...?....:dizzy:

Secondary problems using the "airspeed" based gauge.
I am hoping someone at FSDevelopers can help...

[PhantomTweak]

I am far, very far, from being an XML programmer.
Having said that, I did do some work on the FSX BA F-18 wing-tip vapor effects a while back. If I can be any help, just send me the gauges and effect files, and I can at least LOOK and see if I can figure out what's going on. At worst, I won't.
The FSDEv forum members are a whole lot better than I am by far. I would definately agree that they're the ones to ask. Sometimes they can be a triffle slow on the response time. Not that I'm any better, just commenting...

Pat☺

[Bjoern]

Untested. The "5" is the speed limit above (or below) which the smoke system is toggled.


<Gauge>
<Element>
<Select>
<Value>
(A:SURFACE RELATIVE GROUND SPEED, knots) 5 &gt; (A:SMOKE ENABLE, bool) ! and if{ (>K:SMOKE_TOGGLE) }
(A:SURFACE RELATIVE GROUND SPEED, knots) 5 &lt; (A:SMOKE ENABLE, bool) and if{ (>K:SMOKE_TOGGLE) }
</Value>
</Select>
</Element>
</Gauge>

[Seahawk72s]

Untested. The "5" is the speed limit above (or below) which the smoke system is toggled.



Hi,
Thanks but no joy....


Edit: I need to go back and look at all the gauges I've coded...

[Seahawk72s]

Edit: I need to go back and look at all the gauges I've coded...

I re-coded all gauges and combined into 1 xml.
Smoke and overboard discharges work on seperate engine RPM with spray and wake on boat speed.
All looks good..:redfire:

[warchild]

That looks wonderful seahawk :) Great job :)

[PhantomTweak]

I compared what you posted to what I have for the F-18 LEX Vapor effects. I can see a few glaring differences, that may or may not matter. I really think they do, though.
Here is the line from the Hornet's file:
(L:Vapor Calculator, number) 1 &gt;
(A:SMOKE ENABLE:10, bool) ! and
(A:SMOKE ENABLE:11, bool) ! and
if{ 10 (&gt;K:SMOKE_ON, enum) 11 (&gt;K:SMOKE_ON, enum) } els{ }
and here is yours:
(A:SURFACE RELATIVE GROUND SPEED, knots) 5 &gt; (A:SMOKE ENABLE, bool) ! and if{ (>K:SMOKE_TOGGLE) }

The L: var for the '18 is just the G force and ambient temperature requirements to enable the vapor. If the conditions are properly met, it returns a 1 to turn the smoke on. Then the section I posted turns on smoke entries 10 & 11. In yours, the surface relative ground speed is the triggering event, and turns on whichever smoke entry you're using. You don't specify which smoke entry in the aircraft.cfg [Smoke] Section is triggered, though: (A:SMOKE ENABLE:10, bool) vs (A:SMOKE ENABLE, bool). See the difference? You need to specify just what [smoke] section line entry you want to trigger, not just a [smoke] entry of some sort.
Then, the section triggered in yours isn't specified again in the K: Var entry.
if{ 10 (&gt;K:SMOKE_ON, enum) vs if{ (>K:SMOKE_TOGGLE) }.
Also, I am not sure the K: var you're using is the right one. K:SMOKE_ON in the f-18 instead of K:SMOKE_TOGGLE in yours. Notice that in the F-18 one, the [Smoke] entry triggered is specified in the line, if{ 10 ... and in yours it's not, again.
Last, that I see, for what that's worth, in the F-18 line, the entry goes (&gt;K:... but in yours it's just (>K:...

Do all these differences make a owl's hoot worth? I'm not, repeat NOT, an XML programmer, but all the things I pointed out, I believe, may be very significant.

No way will I even try to program your gauge, but maybe you can take a little look, and try making a few changes? Maybe see about making things match, or resemble would be a better word, a little more?

I hope all my babbling may be so some small assistance.
Pat☺

EDIT: I see now I am way too late in my post. I apologise if I insulted your gauge coding capabilities. I meant no disrespect. I was just trying to help, is all...

[Seahawk72s]

I compared what you posted to what I have for the F-18 LEX Vapor effects. I can see a few glaring differences, that may or may not matter. I really think they do, though.
Here is the line from the Hornet's file:
(L:Vapor Calculator, number) 1 &gt;
(A:SMOKE ENABLE:10, bool) ! and
(A:SMOKE ENABLE:11, bool) ! and
if{ 10 (&gt;K:SMOKE_ON, enum) 11 (&gt;K:SMOKE_ON, enum) } els{ }
and here is yours:
(A:SURFACE RELATIVE GROUND SPEED, knots) 5 &gt; (A:SMOKE ENABLE, bool) ! and if{ (>K:SMOKE_TOGGLE) }

The L: var for the '18 is just the G force and ambient temperature requirements to enable the vapor. If the conditions are properly met, it returns a 1 to turn the smoke on. Then the section I posted turns on smoke entries 10 & 11. In yours, the surface relative ground speed is the triggering event, and turns on whichever smoke entry you're using. You don't specify which smoke entry in the aircraft.cfg [Smoke] Section is triggered, though: (A:SMOKE ENABLE:10, bool) vs (A:SMOKE ENABLE, bool). See the difference? You need to specify just what [smoke] section line entry you want to trigger, not just a [smoke] entry of some sort.
Then, the section triggered in yours isn't specified again in the K: Var entry.
if{ 10 (&gt;K:SMOKE_ON, enum) vs if{ (>K:SMOKE_TOGGLE) }.
Also, I am not sure the K: var you're using is the right one. K:SMOKE_ON in the f-18 instead of K:SMOKE_TOGGLE in yours. Notice that in the F-18 one, the [Smoke] entry triggered is specified in the line, if{ 10 ... and in yours it's not, again.
Last, that I see, for what that's worth, in the F-18 line, the entry goes (&gt;K:... but in yours it's just (>K:...

Do all these differences make a owl's hoot worth? I'm not, repeat NOT, an XML programmer, but all the things I pointed out, I believe, may be very significant.

No way will I even try to program your gauge, but maybe you can take a little look, and try making a few changes? Maybe see about making things match, or resemble would be a better word, a little more?

I hope all my babbling may be so some small assistance.
Pat☺

EDIT: I see now I am way too late in my post. I apologise if I insulted your gauge coding capabilities. I meant no disrespect. I was just trying to help, is all...






Sorry, say what...?
The code you mentioned isn't mine but a sample from Bjoern.
This is my code.....for line items 7-11 under the smoke section...


<Element>
<Select>
<Value>
(A:Airspeed select indicated or true,knots) 15 &gt; if{ 7 (&gt;K:SMOKE_ON) } els{ 7 (&gt;K:SMOKE_OFF) }
</Value>
</Select>
</Element>

<Element>
<Select>
<Value>
(A:Airspeed select indicated or true,knots) 15 &gt; if{ 8 (&gt;K:SMOKE_ON) } els{ 8 (&gt;K:SMOKE_OFF) }
</Value>
</Select>
</Element>

<Element>
<Select>
<Value>
(A:Airspeed select indicated or true,knots) 10 &gt; if{ 9 (&gt;K:SMOKE_ON) } els{ 9 (&gt;K:SMOKE_OFF) }
</Value>
</Select>
</Element>

<Element>
<Select>
<Value>
(A:Airspeed select indicated or true,knots) 10 &gt; if{ 10 (&gt;K:SMOKE_ON) } els{ 10 (&gt;K:SMOKE_OFF) }
</Value>
</Select>
</Element>

<Element>
<Select>
<Value>
(A:Airspeed select indicated or true,knots) 10 &gt; if{ 11 (&gt;K:SMOKE_ON) } els{ 11 (&gt;K:SMOKE_OFF) }
</Value>
</Select>
</Element>

[warchild]

ok, so, I am still going around in circles with enabling the boat too reverse. The real boat would have a transmission with a reverse setting in it like a car has, and simply reverse the rotational direction of the prop shaft, however, it seems fsx doesnt allow for that possibility. I'll work it out though..
On another note. In the wheelhouse of the s-100 type, what i have modeled is correct, but incomplete. Off too the left of the throttles, theres a square box with some instruments in it. I've been searching the web for the past two hours looking for an image of either the box, the wheelhouse or both and have come up empty handed.. The current setup as I have it is way too simplified, but then, I never expected anyone to use the wheelhouse before.. kinda boring from in there, but i think we should have them.. and yeahh, I'm a bit defeated and a little upset at my gfailure to find images, but i'll keep looking.. Just hope i can remember how to model them once we find them..

[SH427]

ok, so, I am still going around in circles with enabling the boat too reverse. The real boat would have a transmission with a reverse setting in it like a car has, and simply reverse the rotational direction of the prop shaft, however, it seems fsx doesnt allow for that possibility. I'll work it out though..
On another note. In the wheelhouse of the s-100 type, what i have modeled is correct, but incomplete. Off too the left of the throttles, theres a square box with some instruments in it. I've been searching the web for the past two hours looking for an image of either the box, the wheelhouse or both and have come up empty handed.. The current setup as I have it is way too simplified, but then, I never expected anyone to use the wheelhouse before.. kinda boring from in there, but i think we should have them.. and yeahh, I'm a bit defeated and a little upset at my gfailure to find images, but i'll keep looking.. Just hope i can remember how to model them once we find them..

I'll scan my sources to see if I can pull anything at all up on the S-100's wheelhouse

[Seahawk72s]

I found this modeler who did extensive modifications to a model to try and get it right.
Scroll down and see the hand built throttle out of aluminum and wheel house snaps.
Who's to say if he got it exactly right...?
As well take a look at the only wheel house photo I've seen. We know some of the S-38
were retro-fitted with "skull caps" so you figure the helms have to be pretty similar. The model
constructs seem to support this..


http://www.modelersalliance.com/forum/in-the-navy/44790-schnellboot-s-100?limit=8&start=240



(http://www.modelersalliance.com/forum/in-the-navy/44790-schnellboot-s-100?limit=8&start=240)

[warchild]

the one wheelhouse in the images is either from an S-14 or s-20 type. My guess is S-14. however the other images are revealing.. I visited the link given and am impressed. the turtleback thats shown isnt just for an S-100, but rather it's from S-130; the last S-boot to survive the war..I think i can use those images to correct the existing model. It might make for a good distraction away from the fde for a bit..

[Seahawk72s]

We had talked about the colors being unrealistic...but....:wiggle:

[huub vink]

The red and white stripes on the nose of the ship are authentic. When my memory is still correct these stripes were used by the Germans as identification aid by the fleet on the Black Sea or Baltic Sea (I need to check, but I have been reading this recently).

Great work on this model! I hope you will make your work availble for download when finished.

Cheers,
Huub

[SH427]

The red and white stripes on the nose of the ship are authentic. When my memory is still correct these stripes were used by the Germans as identification aid by the fleet on the Black Sea or Baltic Sea (I need to check, but I have been reading this recently).

Great work on this model! I hope you will make your work availble for download when finished.

Cheers,
Huub

Check the 3rd Schnellbootsflotille in the Med, they wore the candy stripe and a green deck to blend in better with the Mediterranean Sea a little bit better.

[Seahawk72s]

Thanks for the info.
Good to know the "candy cane" was not an imagined paint scheme.
Any re-paints will be released when Pam does the official unveiling.
Still a fair bit of work to be done to get her ready.

[huub vink]

From squadron/signal publication 18 "Schnellboot in action"

The red and "Schnellbootweiss" diagonal stripes were painted on the "S-boote" deployed to the Black Sea in 1943. This marking was adopted from Italian pactice and reduced the risk of "friendly fire" from Axis aircraft. The rest of the upper deck was painted pea green (approx.FS34258), which matched the warm and algea tinted water.

And below some photographic proof on the deck of a S-38. Although I noticed the diagonal is the other way round.......

https://i.imgur.com/aoe5n8N.jpg

Cheers,
Huub

[warchild]

Well, please bear with me. I'm not a 3d artist but i'm trying, and my skills with math have gone out the window, but i'm trying there too.. Frankly, I wish this project was in more capable hands than mine, but no one has ever volunteered to help model or run numbers. So, I'm asking. Someone please help me. My Blood Oxygen level hovers between 87 and 89% now. It will never go back above 90%. My mind is kerfuggled and the person some of you called a soreceress, is long gone, never to be seen again. Someone pleazse help. I'd like to see this boat finished right..
Pam.

[Seahawk72s]

Layering up the effects at different speeds and placement gives a more realistic bow spray.
I also was wondering what a smoke generator might look like...

[darrenvox]

Cool pics and quite good of boats to:mixed-smiley-010:

[huub vink]

Its more than a year anything has been posted about this boat. So I wonder whether the boat is still floating.

If not, it it perhaps possible to release it "as it is". I do have the pre-release, which I like very much. But I would love to have Skyhawk's textures and effects.

Cheers,
Huub

[Willy]

I'd forgotten about this. It's definitely on my "to have" list. Good e-boats are kinda scarce.

[Seahawk72s]

Its more than a year anything has been posted about this boat. So I wonder whether the boat is still floating.

If not, it it perhaps possible to release it "as it is". I do have the pre-release, which I like very much. But I would love to have Skyhawk's textures and effects.

Cheers,
Huub


I am not sure what Pam's feelings are about this.

[warchild]

Please go ahead and release it.. I still have the original mesh ( .max ) as well if someone wants to take it further. I would love to see it functional in P3D as well, but i just dont have the energy any more. :)

https://i.imgur.com/DKvRSjQ.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/VLOdKiO.png

[Seahawk72s]

Please go ahead and release it.. I still have the original mesh ( .max ) as well if someone wants to take it further. I would love to see it functional in P3D as well, but i just dont have the energy any more. :)



https://i.imgur.com/VLOdKiO.png

This is such a really nice boat and could use a good modeler to bring her to the finish line....

[huub vink]

Thanks Pam. Like you I really hope somebody will be able to finish this beautiful model

Your message please go ahead and release it is a bit confusing for me. Do you ask Seahawk72s to upload the model? As I think you both have the latest version, with textures and effects, from this model.

Thanks again,
Huub

[Seahawk72s]

Thanks Pam. Like you I really hope somebody will be able to finish this beautiful model

Your message please go ahead and release it is a bit confusing for me. Do you ask Seahawk72s to upload the model? As I think you both have the latest version, with textures and effects, from this model.

Thanks again,
Huub

I will get in touch with Pam with some questions.

[warchild]

Its more than a year anything has been posted about this boat. So I wonder whether the boat is still floating.

If not, it it perhaps possible to release it "as it is". I do have the pre-release, which I like very much. But I would love to have Skyhawk's textures and effects.

Cheers,
Huub

Huub:
Just tested it in P3Dv4 and it works fine now. Not sure what was wrong in p3dv2.2 but glad its fixed. config file needs some tweaking and camera adjustments but i can do those as time and energy allows since what there is right now isnt all that bad. I also want Seahawks layered effects in there so i'm hoping he'll do those as well..

In FSX I've literally driven this thing all over the world and even did a cruise from seayttle to san francisco, and its great fun. I'm looking forward to its future..

Pam

[warchild]

Thanks Pam. Like you I really hope somebody will be able to finish this beautiful model

Your message please go ahead and release it is a bit confusing for me. Do you ask Seahawk72s to upload the model? As I think you both have the latest version, with textures and effects, from this model.

Thanks again,
Huub

Welll, I'm afraid i confused myself too.. Yes, seaHawk, release what we have as a beta and lets keep looking for a modeler, and of course your effects and liveries. We can gather data from the users as it comes in and use that data to improve what we have. I have both 3ds max scenery files and .Obj files that I'm willing to share with any capable modeler. 3D wise, Ive taken it to the limit of my skills. I cant take it any further, and it still needs love and some reworking.

For those waiting to download the beta, the old schnellboot pens in Rotterdam are still there, though the river gets a little weird further inland. I havent explored the Rhine yet so let me know :).. and can I recommend HD meshes?? they may help..
Talk soon..
Pam