Beware of Windows 8.1 Preview

[dhazelgrove]

I suggest that you don't install the above.

It stops both FSX and FS9.
Running either in Compatibility Mode doesn't help.
Running as Administrator doesn't help.

As this 'update' to Windows is not easily removable, don't install it.

Dave

[stovall]

Thanks Dave for the heads up. I have definitely not been a fan of Windows 8 from the very beginning.

[ST0RM]

Ahh, Windows 8. The Vista of today...

[Gdavis101]

Ahh, Windows 8. The Vista of today...

Agreed, I have not seen it but know enough about it to just stay away. When MS came out and said they weren't going to take feedback regarding Win 8, like they did Win 7 from the user end the first thing I thought was.. Great another Vista! and that is what it looks like they put out.

[TheGrunt]

I had Vista from 2006 to 2011 and in my experience, it was a remarkably stable OS. For example, I had one installation of Vista running for 3 years and had one mobo/processor/memory HW upgrade with that installation as well as few graphics cards. It worked like a charm without any troubles. If i remember correctly I only reinstalled because it got bloated and I wanted to clean it up. For Win 7 I had to do one reinstall, because it just started to work badly (Win XP, anyone). Nonethless, Vista was a huge step from XP. People are bashing Vista mostly because its early days experiences, when many people installed it to their low spec computers which just brought out Vista's worst aspect: strangely implemented memory management, which caused long boot up times to the desktop and sometimes sluggishness on there. Most of Vista's problems were fixed on SP1 though, but bad reputation left. When it comes to actual performance running software, at least games, there are pretty much no differences between Vista and Win 7: in some cases Win 7 is a bit better, in some cases Vista. Both Vista and Win 7 are still based on the same kernel and Win 7 is pretty much just tweaked Vista with optimisations and corrections (IMO Win 7 could've been a SP1 for Vista but M$ took easy money).

Don't get me wrong, Win 7 is surely a better OS than Vista, but the difference is no way that big as usually is told. Sometimes I think that some of those most anxiously bashing Vista haven't actually used it, at least not a lot, or then they installed it on to some 2GHz P4 with 512MB RAM. When I jumped to Win 7 from Vista, I had Core i7 920@3.9GHz 6GB RAM and only performance difference I noticed was in boot up time, which was noticable even with SSD.

But none of these Windowses (Win 8 just doesn't warm me up at all and I'm going to hang with 7 at least for now) is that good OS IMO. I just love Solaris 11.1 which runs on my home server :applause:

[WarHorse47]

I suggest that you don't install the above.

It stops both FSX and FS9.
Running either in Compatibility Mode doesn't help.
Running as Administrator doesn't help.

As this 'update' to Windows is not easily removable, don't install it.

DaveDid you test the 8.1 Preview or is this information from another source?

And what is the 'Preview?' It doesn't sound like the full update but just a beta??

I'm curious as I've been running Win8 for months without an issue related to FSX or FS9.

Thanks

[Hughes-MDflyer4]

Calling Windows 8 the "Vista of today" is a bit absurd IMO. It's not riddled with bugs like Vista was. It's just different. There are some small issues with the RTM 8. However, 8.1 introduced a break in compatibility with FSX for whatever reason. It's a beta, so it may change. For now, FSX users should stay away from 8.1 though. RTM 8 is completely fine. It's stable and is very fast. My experience running FSX (minus the joystick issue, which was solved by mapping keys through FSUIPC) on 8 has been even better than on 7 (higher and smoother FPS). 8.1 is just as smooth as RTM 8, but lacks the ability to run FSX (I have FS9 installed for testing a friend's software, and it at least runs on 8.1).

[b52bob]

Question.

I bought the original win 7 upgrade from xp. Can I use it to downgrade from win 8?

[Jafo]

Most of Win8's failings are due to a GUI intended for a phone...and entirely inappropriate for a 'work' computer.
The boot time is a 'con' as it simply prioritizes the GUI loading to give an impression of 'ready' whilst the rest of the workings 'quietly' catch up.

I'm an admin for Stardock's Wincustomize.com ....[check them out - shan't put a 'spammy' link] ... Stardock cures most of 8's interface failings by restoring most of 7's actual functuality [and appearance].
8's kernel is a step up from 7, but most people don't know the distinction...to them the GUI IS the OS.

My use of '8' is limited to laptop only....desktop will stay with 7 ...probably until MS comes to its senses and dumps the concept of one-OS-for-all entities/hardware. Sales uptake [lack of] of 8 suggest even 8.1 is not going to save them from looking silly.

Incidentally....a few months ago I installed IE10 on my 7 desktop...and FSX subsequently failed to run ... so needless to say I'm back on 9.

Re Vista... it was released too soon. The majority of issues were to do with incompatible drivers. My first experience was less than rosy...it was my modem driver...so couldn't get online to even try to solve it...and dumped it till later. Didn't have that issue with 7 ... it was virtually idiot-proof by then....;)

[dhazelgrove]

Did you test the 8.1 Preview or is this information from another source?

And what is the 'Preview?' It doesn't sound like the full update but just a beta??

I'm curious as I've been running Win8 for months without an issue related to FSX or FS9.

Thanks

It's an early release candidate. It's running on this machine - as I type - and I wish I'd not installed it. Reverting to 'vanilla' Win8 will be a real problem.
Windows 8 runs both versions of the sim without issue - as far as my experience tells.
This, however, is 8.1..........

Dave

[Dumonceau]

At work we've been testing both 8 and 8.1 for a couple of weeks now. We're not impressed with it, to put it mildly. As network and system admins, we need the Active Directory tools (admin pack) and the exchange management tools for one, and they don't install on 8 or 8.1. There are a few other quirks as well... Try for instance to install the dot net 3.5 (which is necessary for quite a few other networking and admin tools)... It's a painful exercise!

I guess this is - after ditching the MSFS franchize - another slap in the face of the most loyal customer base M$ have ever had...

For those of us however who do want to try it out, image your rig and put the image in a safe place so that reverting to your original install is painless and hassle-free!

Take care,

Dumonceau

[dhazelgrove]

I've managed to get FS9 working!
I'm not quite sure how, but what I did was to enable Direct Play and run it in Windows 7 Compatibility Mode with Admin rights.

FSX still doesn't work, but at least it isn't leaving an event any more (G3D.DLL).

Progress of a sort, perhaps, but I'll take what I can get.....

Dave

[dhazelgrove]

I've found that any needed database changes are made on start up, so any new scenery or traffic files you add are processed ----- then FSX just dies.
Splash screen - fine. Processing sliders - fine. The splash screen goes away and..... nothing!
No error report, no nothing. Not even an entry in one of the event logs.
The last time I did get an error event, FSX was complaining about G3D.DLL - but it doesn't do that any more.

All the above has been extensively reported to Microsoft, together with a message that they're alienating their entire FS community.

Nothing. Nada. Zilch.

Dave

[TheGrunt]

All the above has been extensively reported to Microsoft, together with a message that they're alienating their entire FS community.

Nothing. Nada. Zilch.

Dave
This doesn't surprise me, as support for FSX has officially ended already in Septemtember 2012. This is direct quote from the email Avsim managers got from MS back then:

"Customer Support for FSX has expired here at Microsoft. What does this mean? We will no longer be answering support emails or hosting various updates and download files for the FSX product. Why has it ended? It simply ran its course, all products will hit a support expiration at some point, FSX has hit that date."

So any kind of updates, unless it is something that commynity can fix, are extremely unlikely. Still, 8.1 is just in preview release, and with the release version, FSX may work just fine. There are of course no guarantees and FSX is pretty much legacy software nowadays.

[Dumonceau]

This doesn't surprise me, as support for FSX has officially ended already in Septemtember 2012. This is direct quote from the email Avsim managers got from MS back then:


So any kind of updates, unless it is something that commynity can fix, are extremely unlikely. Still, 8.1 is just in preview release, and with the release version, FSX may work just fine. There are of course no guarantees and FSX is pretty much legacy software nowadays.

Proof once more that the way forward for us simmers will be v2.0 of Prepar3D. The best we can hope for is that they make it true 64 bit like DCS!

In my ideal world, I would like to limit the Mickey$oft products on my rigs to Windows 7 and an office product. 2013 seems to be very nice and more stable than 2010!

[dhazelgrove]

Proof once more that the way forward for us simmers will be v2.0 of Prepar3D. The best we can hope for is that they make it true 64 bit like DCS!

In my ideal world, I would like to limit the Mickey$oft products on my rigs to Windows 7 and an office product. 2013 seems to be very nice and more stable than 2010!

Perhaps not. The knowledge that they're upsetting us may well cause MS to think again.

Regarding Office software, try one of the free alternatives.

Dave

[dhazelgrove]

The FS community is all over MS like a rash. The response we're getting is along the lines of:

"Based on some of the post reactions I think some of you need to take a step back and realize that Windows 8.1 PREVIEW is just that, a preview of unfinished software that is available for people to try to see what will be available at the end of the year when it is ready. When you downloaded the preview it even states...
"Windows 8.1 Preview is prerelease software that might be substantially modified before it’s commercially released. Microsoft makes no warranties, express or implied, with respect to the information provided here. Some product features and functionality may require additional hardware or software."

If you are using this software on a main computer and you have reduced functionality due to the 8.1 update then simply go back to Windows 8 and wait until the final release is available, or run 8.1 on a secondary PC. I am sure that Microsoft will make their OS work with their own, very popular, flight sim by the time 8.1 is finished."

Not surprising, is it?

Dave

[roger-wilco-66]

The FS community is all over MS like a rash. The response we're getting is along the lines of:

"Based on some of the post reactions I think some of you need to take a step back and realize that Windows 8.1 PREVIEW is just that, a preview of unfinished software that is available for people to try to see what will be available at the end of the year when it is ready. When you downloaded the preview it even states...
"Windows 8.1 Preview is prerelease software that might be substantially modified before it’s commercially released. Microsoft makes no warranties, express or implied, with respect to the information provided here. Some product features and functionality may require additional hardware or software."

If you are using this software on a main computer and you have reduced functionality due to the 8.1 update then simply go back to Windows 8 and wait until the final release is available, or run 8.1 on a secondary PC. I am sure that Microsoft will make their OS work with their own, very popular, flight sim by the time 8.1 is finished."

Not surprising, is it?

Dave

ROFL I think they lost it (again)....

[dhazelgrove]

It is believed that there's a 'new' version of DirectX coming in Windows 8.1, and it's this that is causing us grief.

Dave

[TheGrunt]

The FS community is all over MS like a rash. The response we're getting is along the lines of:

"Based on some of the post reactions I think some of you need to take a step back and realize that Windows 8.1 PREVIEW is just that, a preview of unfinished software that is available for people to try to see what will be available at the end of the year when it is ready. When you downloaded the preview it even states...
"Windows 8.1 Preview is prerelease software that might be substantially modified before it’s commercially released. Microsoft makes no warranties, express or implied, with respect to the information provided here. Some product features and functionality may require additional hardware or software."

If you are using this software on a main computer and you have reduced functionality due to the 8.1 update then simply go back to Windows 8 and wait until the final release is available, or run 8.1 on a secondary PC. I am sure that Microsoft will make their OS work with their own, very popular, flight sim by the time 8.1 is finished."

Not surprising, is it?

Dave
Actually there is a lot truth in there. If you have sometimes been working with true production environmets, you certainly never put anything beta or otherwise unfinished software in it. You may leave pretty much every update out of it, except critical security updates. For updates, you should actually have a test platform, a copy of production environment software wise, where you should test pretty much all the updates there possibly is before putting it to real production environmet. This is of course the other end of the spectrum used in larger companies utilizing critical computer systems such as some special process and production line systems.

For home environment this applies to a certain extent. If you are using some software which you deem important and especially if that is EOL product, do not install large OS updates, especially unfinished ones. Or wait at least so long that somebody tests it and proceed just after that. Somebody WILL test it no matter what and you can read the results from the forums nonethless :icon_lol:

[TheGrunt]

It is believed that there's a 'new' version of DirectX coming in Windows 8.1, and it's this that is causing us grief.

Dave
No, it doesn't cause problems, because FSX calls DX9 runtimes and you need to have DX9 installed, which is the DX version FSX uses. For DX10 many things changed from DX9 and in many cases you still need DX9 runtimes to run DX9 software, so there is just partly backwards compatibility with DX10 and 11 to DX9. DX11 versions are however able to run DX10 software, if you are using DX10 preview in FSX.

[dhazelgrove]

No, it doesn't cause problems, because FSX calls DX9 runtimes and you need to have DX9 installed, which is the DX version FSX uses. For DX10 many things changed from DX9 and in many cases you still need DX9 runtimes to run DX9 software, so there is just partly backwards compatibility with DX10 and 11 to DX9. DX11 versions are however able to run DX10 software, if you are using DX10 preview in FSX.

Ah, yes - but you should be aware that the preview is removing things as well as adding. Supposedly 'incompatible' items are disappearing with every update received. I had half a dozen 'updates' this morning.
I've already lost Bitdefender and something else I haven't identified as yet (gaps in my desktop icons), so who knows what else is being changed/removed?
It's certainly true that we're not warned or otherwise notified.
I've forgotten how to identify the DX variant I have. Perhaps someone can remind me?

Just remembered: "dxdiag". It's showing a DirectX version of "11", but it's beyond that. 11.1, perhaps?

Dave

[dhazelgrove]

Some news on this issue:

We're told that the issue has been fixed in "released Build 9471" of the Preview.
I asked when the build would be made available, as I've only got Build 9431. The response was that the word 'leaked' should be used for the word 'released'.

This suggests that the issue may well have been looked at, but the date that this possible fix is made available has yet to be decided, so don't hold your breath.

I've told them - bluntly - that I'm taking this as notice that the issue has been addressed in a possible future update.
We'll tell them when/if it's actually fixed.

Dave (Annoyed in the UK)