New Texture Problems - Not Getting 32 Bit

[Alpha Two Zero]

Hi Guys,
Hope someone can help me here please. I am thinking of having ago at doing a new texture for the Pilatus PC-21. Now I am using their 32 Bit texture and when placing these into DXTbmp I notice that they are showing up as 4096 x 4096 on the top of the image (Image 1). Now I have put one of there paint kit textures through my paintshop program changed the it to match the orginal, saved as an bitmap, now this is were I ma having problems. For some reason as you can see from the bottom image it's reverted it back to the small size. Also how can I get it to stay at the original size and also how do I get it to 32 Bit ? The highest I can save in is 24. Any help wil be greatly appreciated. Timm

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[DaveQ]

When you save from PSPX4 to .bmp, can you save it as 32-bit? Can you save from DXTbmp as a .dds file (DXT5 as I recall - currently on laptop so can't verify). Also try turning 16-bit dither off and don't use mip maps. I also know from experience DXTbmp doesn't take too well to 4096x4096 textures so you could try it at 2048x2048.

Hope this helps

DaveQ

[Alpha Two Zero]

When you save from PSPX4 to .bmp, can you save it as 32-bit? Can you save from DXTbmp as a .dds file

Hi Dave,
Thanks for your reply. OK here's the answers.

1. When you save from PSPX4 to .bmp, can you save it as 32-bit? - NO - Max 16-bit

2. Can you save from DXTbmp as a .dds file - YES - I tend to use the Extended Bitmap - Extended 32 bit 888-8 option which on all my other paints seem to work OK, but for some reason when using it on these textures all the detail goes blurred.

But looking at the texture I want to work on its huge 64 MB compared to the others.

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[mjahn]

Check the paintkit texture size - is it 4096? If not you are better off converting the original dds, saving the alpha, do your editing, re-add the alpha at the final DxtBmp stage, saving as 32 bit 888-8 -- if really necessary, normally a waste of valuable space and time (! FPS!) at this size and given the excellent quality of dxt5. If it is 4096 then make sure your paint prog saves the correct size (but it would be really odd if it didn't).

[DaveQ]

Check the size of PC21_1_T.dds in another texture folder. In those a/c I have that use 4096x4096 they are all 16mb so I'm guessing the problem is with the way PSP is saving the file. Can you reduce to 2048x2048 and save as 32-bit? Suggest you could check the save preferences for PSP. At home now so can help more...!

DaveQ

[Alpha Two Zero]

Can you reduce to 2048x2048 and save as 32-bit?
Hi Dave,
Thanks for getting back. OK been digging into PSP and it looks like I can only save 16 bit so not able to go any higher. I can reduce the size down to 2048 x 2048 but not 32. Now what I have done so far is I have taken the "PC21_1_T" paint done what need doing, saved as BMP to windows, dragged into DXTbmp flipped is over added the Alpha channel and saved as DDS - DXT5 and this is whats come out. All text is blurred just look at the two ejection triangles they are really bad

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[Jafo]

You shouldn't have issues with DXTBmp at 4096 .... it's the size I use for all my A12A Avenger 2 paints. Yes they are big....saved as 8.8.8 BMPs they end up as 65,537 kb.
Stick to that format until you are ready to upload...then flip image and save to DDS5 compression.
The image in DDS will end up 16,385 kb. [still at 4096 res].

The separated image of a 4096 8.8.8 bmp is a main of 49,193 kb of 24bit [16 million colours] and a trans layer bmp of 16,386 kb of 8 bit [256 colours].
Working directly with repeated DDS5 saves and edits will cause a degradation of detail.... and dithering down to a reduced resolution means fudged [blurred] results.....images are rasters, not vectors....;)
BTW....the graphics proggies I use are comparatively primitive....PSP6...and later PS Elements 2 [because that handles high numbers of layers for image development/paint kits - currently the 'kit' size is just under 500 Meg - PSP6 falls over at about 300 meg] ...;)

[Alpha Two Zero]

You shouldn't have issues with DXTBmp at 4096
Hi Jafo,
I think DXTbmp is not helping me at all. I have the textures at 4096 but when placed into DXT it takes them down to 2048 as seen in the last image on my initial post.

[Jafo]

Hi Jafo,
I think DXTbmp is not helping me at all. I have the textures at 4096 but when placed into DXT it takes them down to 2048 as seen in the last image on my initial post.
Looks like you have some settings different....i see '16bit dithering' checked at right.

Here's a typical screenshot of my DXT working with 4096 ....just showing it DOES work....

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BTW version is 4.00.96

I use DXTBmp for nothing other than norm + trans combining....along with inverting and saving to different formats ie. DDS.
All the graphics manipulation aka painting is done either in PSP and/or PS ...at 4096 res...;)

[DaveQ]

Now what I have done so far is I have taken the "PC21_1_T" paint done what need doing, saved as BMP to windows, dragged into DXTbmp flipped is over added the Alpha channel and saved as DDS - DXT5 and this is whats come out. All text is blurred just look at the two ejection triangles they are really bad

I take it you added the alpha before you flipped, or added a flipped alpha?? As Jafo says, the 16-bit dither might be giving you the blurr.

I don't normally work in PSP, but I have an old copy of PSP9 and it appears that, unlike Photoshop, when you save as a .bmp, you always save as an OS/2 bmp file which is 24-bit; Photoshop will save as a Windows bmp file at 32-bit. When you take it into DXTbmp it defaults from 4096 24bit to 2048 32bit. It will then save as a 2048 dds file. Can't readily see a way around that; can only suggest you get a copy of Photoshop (as Jafo says again, PS Elements is perfectly OK and old ones may be available free.) Alternatively dl a trial copy from Adobe, but save your PSP file as a .psd file (Photoshop won't import .psp files).

Hope this is helpful.

DaveQ

[Jafo]

Not to get people confused here...but these aircraft texture files are comprised of two separate images of standard single channel or 'flat' images - bitmaps. One is the main graphic called 'image' the other is the alpha channel graphic called 'alpha'..... nomenclature by DXTBmp.
The 'image' part is 24bit .... and CAN be made by BOTH PS or PSP - there is no difference. The 'alpha' part is 8bit....256 colours.

They can be each separately played with via any graphic proggy of your choice - no dramas.... as long as you reload them back into the combined 'file' in DXTBmp and re-save.


The verification of this is quite apparent...as I save the 2 bits of my image to separate bitmaps [as well as the 'combined' 8.8.8-8 aka 32 bit extended bmp file using DXT.
In that format [888-8] the image properties are...


Separated 'image' [I call 'norm.bmp'] = 24bit

Separated 'alpha' [I call 'trans.bmp' ] = 8bit

Actual aircraft image file [the combined full image aka extended bitmap] = 32bit.

Again...Extract the 2 parts from an image using DXTBmp - then do all your painting editing resizing to each of the 2 components individually via whatever paint proggy.... and when you finish put them back into DXTBmp via the 'reload after edit' option .... then save-as to 8.8.8-8 extended bmp - until you are ready to upload/release the image - at that time you may need to use a compressed format where DXT5 DDS is supposedly best..... remembering first to flip image and alpha...;)

Any process subsequent that shrinks the resolution will dither [resample] pixels so eg. if you have a 1 pixel line of black on a white background at 4096 you will typically end up with a smudged grey line instead in 2048 - and worse still in 1024.
The only 'real' option is to draw an image in its intended final-use resolution...so WYSIWYG ...;)
All else will disappoint.

Edit ...
Re old copies of PS E .... mine came free with a printer - eons ago [it's very old] ... but works fine...;)

[mjahn]

Ahaha! ... I was wondering how you got that message in DxtBmp's status line saying "(now 2048)". So I did and dropped a 4096 onto DxtBmp and got the identical message. Then I opned DxtBmp on its own, used the File > Open command, selected "Any Image File", picked the 4096, and lo and behold, it stays that way.

[Alpha Two Zero]

yabba dabba doo

Hi Guys,
What more can I say except "yabba dabba doo!" I got my textures. Dave I looked at what you and Jafo said and downloaded Adobe Photoshop Elements 2.0. Open up my Paintshop program and saved a copy as a PSD file, open that up in Photoshop and saved that which gave me the options of a 32 bit, put through DXTbmp and saved that as a 32 as well and hey presto I have a texture that I can read the text. Once again a BIG thank you to you all.

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[DaveQ]

....Then I opned DxtBmp on its own, used the File > Open command, selected "Any Image File", picked the 4096, and lo and behold, it stays that way.

I can do this with Photoshop-saved files (but I get a black alpha), but with PSP9-saved files they always default back to 2048 with 32-bit resolution.

DaveQ

Edit - cross posted. Great stuff Alpha-Two-Zero, glad we got yer sorted!!:ernae:

[Jafo]

Ahaha! ... I was wondering how you got that message in DxtBmp's status line saying "(now 2048)". So I did and dropped a 4096 onto DxtBmp and got the identical message. Then I opned DxtBmp on its own, used the File > Open command, selected "Any Image File", picked the 4096, and lo and behold, it stays that way.
Ah...me too was wondering how that happened.
As with everything it's not what you use....it's how you use it...;)

To load an image in DXT I right-click it and select 'open with'...;)
Alpha Two Zero ....glad you got it to work....;)

[Jafo]

I can do this with Photoshop-saved files (but I get a black alpha), but with PSP9-saved files they always default back to 2048 with 32-bit resolution.

DaveQ

Edit - cross posted. Great stuff Alpha-Two-Zero, glad we got yer sorted!!:ernae:
You don't want a 'photoshop-saved file with a black alpha' .... you don't want a 32 bit image at all. DXTBmp gives you that. All the graphic is is a 'true colour' 16.7 million colour bitmap aka 24bit. PLUS an alpha image which can be made/altered separately of 256 colours aka 8bit.
To manage them you open an existing image you want to change....using DXTBmp...double click on the 'main' and it'll load into whatever graphic proggy you aliased to. resize...edit...etc...click save in that proggy and in DXT click 'reload after edit'.
Do the same with the alpha image and reload....
...and in DXT save as.... to whatever format you choose [888-8 or DDS, etc].

The point is....there is no requirement for a graphic editing program to ever have to manage alpha channels - DXTBmp does that for you....;)