For all of you train buffs that lounge in the SOH pub.

[Cazzie]

http://www.railpictures.net/

http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/4/4/7/2447.1230910782.jpg

http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/8/0/1/9801.1172858400.jpg

Caz

[Skipsan]

:woot:Way to cool :monkies:

Skipsan:kilroy:

[cheezyflier]

yes!!!!!! what he said!!!!!

[Baywing]

Cool. The second one almost looks like a Norman Rockwell painting.

[TARPSBird]

No. 5632 (the gold painted one) was used on fan trips out of Chicago for many years. It was scrapped in the 1970's after the owner couldn't pay storage fees. A real shame that was allowed to happen.

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

The old with the Buick in it is absolutely gorgeous!!

-Ed-

PS How many people here actually knew it was a Buick?

[Cazzie]

Hey All,

The old with the Buick in it is absolutely gorgeous!!

-Ed-

PS How many people here actually knew it was a Buick?

Not only that, but a '53 model. I oughta know too, I puked all over my Great-Uncle Robbie's rear valence on the Nolfolk ferry. Didn't quite have my sea legs then! :costumes:

Caz

[Willy]

My second car was a 1953 Buick Special with the straight 8 engine (white with a dark green top). How many actually know how to start one? :d

Hint: Just turning the key wouldn't do it.

[WuhWuzDat]

http://www.irm.org/gallery/albums/Members_Weekend_2006/aac.sized.jpg (http://www.irm.org/gallery/Members_Weekend_2006/aac?full=1)


http://www.irm.org/gallery/albums/gheier04/aab.sized.jpg (http://www.irm.org/gallery/gheier04/aab?full=1)

http://www.irm.org/gallery/albums/album143/aav.sized.jpg (http://www.irm.org/gallery/album143/aav?full=1)

http://www.irm.org/gallery/albums/album141/aai.sized.jpg (http://www.irm.org/gallery/album141/aai?full=1)

http://www.irm.org/gallery/albums/album114/aar.sized.jpg (http://www.irm.org/gallery/album114/aar?full=1)

http://www.irm.org/gallery/albums/album130/aar.sized.jpg (http://www.irm.org/gallery/album130/aar?full=1)

Jeff

[Cazzie]

I think WuhWuzDat likes trains! :amen:

Caz

Must dig out some old transparencies and scan them. Use to love to record them when stereo reel-to-reel recorders came out. I had a converter in my truck at the battery that I could hook up and use (preferably with the engine running at idle). I still have those old recording, but sadly no reel-to-reel. The sound turn up on my stereo in those days was scary loud; would make you think a loco was coming through yer house! :costumes:

Caz

[Baywing]

My second car was a 1953 Buick Special with the straight 8 engine (white with a dark green top). How many actually know how to start one? :d

Hint: Just turning the key wouldn't do it.

IIRC, turn key to on, press starter button on floor. I think it is where the dimmer switch ended up before it moved to the turn signal stalk.

[Baywing]

http://www.pbase.com/baywing/image/10070545.jpg

The morning train from Chama, NM

[JoeW]

My second car was a 1953 Buick Special with the straight 8 engine (white with a dark green top). How many actually know how to start one? :d

Hint: Just turning the key wouldn't do it.

Turn the key on, Put it in netural and press the gas petal....
It had to be in netural.

[michael davies]

Couple from my collection at work. I'm trying to perfect night photography, kinda hard as they do insist on lots of background clutter around here LOL.

Terri ( little green engine ) is named after a plucky little local girl who suffered terrible 85% burns a house fire when only 2yrs old, sadly her mother could not cope and seperated, the Port of Felixstowe helped to support her cause and had a special day out where she named the locomotive whilst recovering from burns aged 6 in 2003. Our local newspare the Evening Star is also a very big supporter for her cause and raises massive amounts of money for her future.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4653182.stm

Terri belongs to Freightliner, technically it can be based anywhere in the UK, but staff always seem to make sure she comes back home to Felixstowe after any servicing or repairs.

Real big train buff here I'm afraid :).

Best

Michael

[Pepere]

My second car was a 1953 Buick Special with the straight 8 engine (white with a dark green top). How many actually know how to start one? :d

Hint: Just turning the key wouldn't do it.

Step on the starter button on the floor.

David

[Boomer]

Great pics!

I am a dyed in the wool rail fan as well.

Reeeeaaalllyy looking forward to the next trainsim!

[PSULLYKEYS]

Here's a nice winter shot of a Metroliner approaching 30th Street Station, Philadelphia, Southbound to Washington DC in the 80's. Seems that the Metroliner's blowers couldn't handle the real fine snow. So a 1940's GGI is hauling it to the tune of 100mph on the straight! Second pix is the view from the Engineer's seat on a GGI.

Pix are from same website....nice stuff - brings back memories...

[Baywing]

Another old steamer:
http://www.pbase.com/baywing/image/67567786.jpg

[WuhWuzDat]

Baywing,
Is that the Mount Washington Cog Railway? It's on my list of places to visit, at least as long as they keep running steam ( ...and NOT more of those computerized biodiesel burning monstrosities with John Deere engines)

Jeff

[Baywing]

Baywing,
Is that the Mount Washington Cog Railway? It's on my list of places to visit, at least as long as they keep running steam ( ...and NOT more of those computerized biodiesel burning monstrosities with John Deere engines)

Jeff

Yes, it is. I haven't been there in over a year, I haven't seen their dis-easal yet, but it's only one. They will run it for at least one full season before undertaking a second knowing the Manager. They had tried an oil fired steamer, but that didn't work as the vibrations shook the bricks in the firebox loose every trip. For a while yet, there should be a few of the old steam engines running. That eco friendly thing sure looks ugly in the photos, I'm not holding out hope it looks any better in person!!

[Willy]

The '53 Buick Special didn't have a separate starter button on the floor. It was turn the key to on, press the gas pedal down. Then slide the pedal to the right to start.

I got mine from my uncle and it had set up on a hill behind his house for a few years. Once I got it running, I mainly just drove it around on the farm with the occasional trip up the country road to the store to pick stuff for my Grandpa. Never did bother to put tags on it. Also used it to pull start one of his tractors once.

[Thoe6969]

My second car was a 1953 Buick Special with the straight 8 engine (white with a dark green top). How many actually know how to start one? :d

Hint: Just turning the key wouldn't do it. Yep you had to push the gas pedal to the floor to engage the starter.:whistle:

[michael davies]

Here's a nice winter shot of a Metroliner approaching 30th Street Station, Philadelphia, Southbound to Washington DC in the 80's. Seems that the Metroliner's blowers couldn't handle the real fine snow. So a 1940's GGI is hauling it to the tune of 100mph on the straight! Second pix is the view from the Engineer's seat on a GGI.

Pix are from same website....nice stuff - brings back memories...

Which website please ?, I'll take everything and anything on GG1s, by far one of the most stylish 30's designs.

Best

Michael

[TARPSBird]

Which website please ?, I'll take everything and anything on GG1s, by far one of the most stylish 30's designs.
Best
Michael
Michael, here's a good assortment of GG-1 shots for ya:
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/prr/prr-elec.html
The GG-1 probably has more fans who never saw one in real life than any other loco, except maybe the Union Pacific's Big Boy.

[Cazzie]

Which website please ?, I'll take everything and anything on GG1s, by far one of the most stylish 30's designs.

Best

Michael

I am assuming he is speaking of the original website I listed in the host post Michael. http://www.railpictures.net/

Caz

[Daveroo]

speaking of trains...i live on the original alinement of the trancontinental railroad..track one through auburn ca...im about 200 yards from the line..a set of reverse "S" curves south of the recreation park.and just beyond that is a cut called Bloomer cut.its 830 feet long and has a curve in it..at the time it was famous for a couple reasons..one it was the FIRST use of dynymite in the US ( atleast on a RR) and because of the length of the cut and the fact it has a curve in the cut...one time as a kid we were playin in the cut..about mdway and an SP train was coming..we didnt hear the horn as the nearest crossing is sacramento st about a 1/4 mile of more away....it was on us before we knew it..all we could do was dive into the ditch alongside ..some of the cars over hung and passed over us...scared the POOP outta me and i never played in there again...(we played cowboys and indians for real,on top of the cut and to the south,is a maidu indian resaervation....we got to play for real....lol)
also in auburn was another railroad first...the mountain quaries railroad bridge ( now better known as "no hands bridge") was..at the time ...1912..the longest coninuous concrete arch bridge in the world...its in the bottom of a 1200 foot deep canyon..was part of a railine that snaked its way up the canyon wall over high wooden tressles with a wooden tressle switchback..the whole switchback was on a high tressle...really cool..wished they would have preserved that stuff...

[WuhWuzDat]

Which website please ?, I'll take everything and anything on GG1s, by far one of the most stylish 30's designs.

Best

Michael
Here is a pic of the GG1 at the Railway Museum I volunteer at, Michael!

Jeff

http://www.steamlocomotive.com/GG1/prr4927-2.jpg

[TARPSBird]

Jeff, that's a beautiful restoration of 4927. Looks like she's ready to take out the Broadway Limited or the Congressional. :)

[WuhWuzDat]

Jeff, that's a beautiful restoration of 4927. Looks like she's ready to take out the Broadway Limited or the Congressional. :)

All she needs is her transformer and switch group reinstalled, and 11,000 volts 25Hz ac on the overhead wire (our wire is 600V DC) .

Jeff

[michael davies]

I am assuming he is speaking of the original website I listed in the host post Michael. http://www.railpictures.net/

Caz

Ordinarily I'd agree, but I've been collecting pictures from that site for nearly five years now and haven't seen those too, it and this site are the only two sites I check every day. I'll go back and run their search engine tonight and see if it throws up any more images :).

Best

Michael

[PSULLYKEYS]

Sorry fellows, I was away for a while.....the website was railpictures.net

lots of GG1 and other former PRR/Penn Central/Conrail/Amtrak stuff.

The GG1s had severe frame cracking problems the last 10 years of service, requiring the frames to be welded at the Wilmington, DE shops.

Also the transformers were filled with piranol oil - heavy in PCBs and very deadly, no chance you'll see them again.

Sad, but all good things come to an end eventually!

The other forgotten AC Electrics below
The E44 and E33 (diamond shaped pantograph) The E33s were former Virginian RR, both had trucks (wheel assemblies) that limited speed to 60mph. (The Amtrak E60 bore that out since it was a BM&LP RR hauler originally. The E60s violently pound and sway at switches above 60mph.)

The E40 (Former NYNH&H)

Also a pix of the 4935 toward the end of her career with her PRR paint job. Note the heritage coach behind the G, it was a power car since the Amfleet cars needed their own genset for lights/heat/AC and the G's did not have them.

[michael davies]

Michael, here's a good assortment of GG-1 shots for ya:<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/prr/prr-elec.html (http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/prr/prr-elec.html)<o:p></o:p>
The GG-1 probably has more fans who never saw one in real life than any other loco, except maybe the Union Pacific's Big Boy.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Super !, I'll go hoover up all the images shortly LOL, I've a huge collection of on line images collected over the years and several books ( Morning Sun are particularly good ) some long out of print.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Lowerys design epitomises 1930s art Nuevo styling to my mind, others tried but few managed to create the classic swept curves so prominent of that era on a locomotive, perhaps Sir Nigel Gresleys A4 locomotives are the steam equivalent, or the PRR T1 Duplex's.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Best<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Michael<o:p></o:p>

[michael davies]

Sorry fellows, I was away for a while.....the website was railpictures.net

lots of GG1 and other former PRR/Penn Central/Conrail/Amtrak stuff.

The GG1s had severe frame cracking problems the last 10 years of service, requiring the frames to be welded at the Wilmington, DE shops.

Also the transformers were filled with piranol oil - heavy in PCBs and very deadly, no chance you'll see them again.

Sad, but all good things come to an end eventually!

The other forgotten AC Electrics below
The E44 and E33 (diamond shaped pantograph) The E33s were former Virginian RR, both had trucks (wheel assemblies) that limited speed to 60mph. (The Amtrak E60 bore that out since it was a BM&LP RR hauler originally. The E60s violently pound and sway at switches above 60mph.)

The E40 (Former NYNH&H)

Also a pix of the 4935 toward the end of her career with her PRR paint job. Note the heritage coach behind the G, it was a power car since the Amfleet cars needed their own genset for lights/heat/AC and the G's did not have them.

Ok, thank you for the information, will go check their search engine, two of those last three I already have, but the EP5 is a new one for me as well.

Best

Michael

[michael davies]

Here is a pic of the GG1 at the Railway Museum I volunteer at, Michael!

Jeff

http://www.steamlocomotive.com/GG1/prr4927-2.jpg

Jeff

Excellent shot, how are the cabs ?, have then been restored as well, I've several images looking fwd but none looking behind the engineer and I believe there is a cross passage between the two cabs as well ?, its one of the locos I have lined up for TSx when it arrives later this year or early next year.

When you did the restoration did you have to cut off the high level filters ?, many of the class were modified with high level filters and the lower styled ones blanked off, I'd have to check my notes to see if 4927 was one of them, they are certainly an interesting class to cross reference and keep tabs on LOL.

I tend to prefer the burgandy ones or ones with the solid stripe and large logo as opposed to the pin stripe ones, but like any lady, its only a change of dress :).

Does any one know if you can get a brass O gauge model of the GG1 anywhere ?, preferably as a kit as I tend to prefer to make them myself.

Best

Michael

[WuhWuzDat]

Micheal,
One of the cabs has been partially restored. The cabs are surprisingly TINY, to the extent that, in order to pass from one of the side passages behind the cab, to one of the the side-to-side passages, you have to tilt the seat forward, as the back corner of the seat is only inches from the corner of the inner passage walls.

Due to the way the passages are aligned, and the placement of the seats, the engineer, and the fireman, while only a few feet from each other, can barely see each other.

4927 was lucky enough to escape that air intake modification, which simplified her restoration. Fabrication of the "louvers on wire" style intake screen would have been an expensive, labor intensive process.

I tend to prefer the "Tuscan Red" ones myself, but, as 4935 never wore the red paint herself, that paint scheme was not an option for us. The only real decision was between the 5 stripe, and single stripe versions of the Brunswick Green.

The GG1 has got what is probably the smallest Cab of any locomotive I have ever been in, and the largest, roomiest cab I've been in belongs to another of our large electric locomotives;

http://www.irm.org/cgi-bin/image.pl?conf=img600&img=/pictures/600/803csssb01.jpg


GE "Little Joe", #803 from the Chicago, South Shore, & South Bend RR.
The cabs start at about the middle of the side doors, and run almost unobstructed to the base of the windshields, interrupted only by the controller, brakestand, and 2 seats, A group of 10 or more people can stand in each of her cabs, with elbow room to spare. 803 has run on our line, but needs some air compressor repair, and new batteries before she operates again. That's 4927 behind her, before restoration.

Jeff

[PSULLYKEYS]

Michael: The GG1 had a passageway back along both sides, connecting both ends. There are doors behind the engineer and fireman's seats, and you had to tilt the engineers seat forward to pass behind the seat due to the 24RL brake schedule equipment. The view between the engineer was limited and calling of wayside signals between the two required shouting, especially at 80mph.

The "A" end center door between the engineer/fireman facing toward the other end of the G contained a steam heat boiler which was changed to a steam generator on the Amtrak Gs in the late 60s. across from that door facing forward was a door leading to the nose and contained petcocks for checking the 2 water tanks. The A end had an additional 2 water tanks in the nose. The "B" end had the transformer room with the tap switches instead of the steam generator.

The fireman was required to syphon water (using valves) from the B end tanks to the A end tanks on the longer Washington or Harrisburg /NY assignments. The steam generator only drew water from the A end. 200psi of steam was used for heating in the winter, and if you worked the Southern Crescent, you had the joy of running the steam back on 100+ degree days in the summer since the SR older passenger cars had steam air conditioning!

Because of their 20 wheels, they were very forgiving on track that was not quite up to par. The AC traction motors, even with the quill drive, were notoriously poor for starting freight trains, especially on an acending grade. But once started the G could keep the slack stretched on most trains (even freight!) compared to any number of diesels.

[michael davies]

Michael: The GG1 had a passageway back along both sides, connecting both ends. There are doors behind the engineer and fireman's seats, and you had to tilt the engineers seat forward to pass behind the seat due to the 24RL brake schedule equipment. The view between the engineer was limited and calling of wayside signals between the two required shouting, especially at 80mph.

The "A" end center door between the engineer/fireman facing toward the other end of the G contained a steam heat boiler which was changed to a steam generator on the Amtrak Gs in the late 60s. across from that door facing forward was a door leading to the nose and contained petcocks for checking the 2 water tanks. The A end had an additional 2 water tanks in the nose. The "B" end had the transformer room with the tap switches instead of the steam generator.

The fireman was required to syphon water (using valves) from the B end tanks to the A end tanks on the longer Washington or Harrisburg /NY assignments. The steam generator only drew water from the A end. 200psi of steam was used for heating in the winter, and if you worked the Southern Crescent, you had the joy of running the steam back on 100+ degree days in the summer since the SR older passenger cars had steam air conditioning!

Because of their 20 wheels, they were very forgiving on track that was not quite up to par. The AC traction motors, even with the quill drive, were notoriously poor for starting freight trains, especially on an acending grade. But once started the G could keep the slack stretched on most trains (even freight!) compared to any number of diesels.

Ok, I think I follow all that LOL, though I thought the boiler was between the cabs and not in the nose or did I misread that bit ?. Attached a PRR image showing a 'stack', one presumes that the boiler vent ?, another showing a Tuscan solid stripe, oddly the Tuscan paint scheme seemed to loose its lacquerer very quickly and became dull, shame as when they are glossed up it is a nice color and suits the GG1's very well.

You seem to orate from experience ?, always nice to read first hand experiences :).

I've heard of the AC motor problems, I think that particular forward thinking back then made sure the GG1s had a long life span, DC motors would have been terrible on maintenance with brush wear and resultant flash overs, DC control gear is also much heavier. We have terrible trouble with our large DC motors at work, few last more than 18 months in service before we have a flash over or some other problem, despite heavy regular maintenance.

Attached some images of one that went 'bang' just before Xmas. Calculations put the trip current at around 6-8000Amps, enough to blow the commutator wide open and destroy every single brush holder, mind it was doing 1750RPM at the time, though it did stop pretty quick afterwards :). Its hard to tell the size from the images but the comm is about 18" in dia and the motor 4ft sq and 5ft long, certainly not our biggest motor, that accolade is reserved for the new AC 500Kw ones. Its only recently that we have gone over to AC motors with inverter drives and it gives such fine control, far better than any DC controller and vastly more torque, a modern inverter drive on a GG1 would probably double their power rating !.

Sorry for the digression LOL.

Kindest

Michael

[WuhWuzDat]

You are correct, Michael, in thinking the boiler and transformer were in the center section of the locomotive. The "center doors" Psullykeys mentioned allow entry into this area from the cabs, There are actually 4 interior doors in each cab, the center door to the transformer/boiler rooms (depending on which end of the locomotive you were in), 2 doors back into the side passages, and 1 door that leads up into the "nose" section, which housed the aircompressors, air reservoirs, traction motor blowers, battery boxs, and various other equipment.

Contrary to what some people think, the motors in a GG1 are brush type motors, fully capable of running on either low frequency AC, or DC current. A true ac induction motor would tend to be a "single speed" motor, unless equipped with a variable frequency drive. While such drives are quite common nowadays, I think it would have taken an auxiliary car hooked up to the locomotive to carry the equipment need to do this with 1930' or 40's vacuum tube and mercury rectifier technology.

The control system in a GG1 is quite simple in comparison, simply using various combinations of the secondary windings of the transformer to vary the voltage to the 12 motors.

Part of the problem with using them in freight service was the fact that, even geared "down" for freight service, they were still geared for 90 mph. For comparison, a typical north american Diesel locomotive is geared for 65 or 70 mph.

I've also found a picture (By Sean Lamb) of 4927 while she was under restoration, if you look closely, you can see the remains of at least 3 paint schemes, (Amtrak black, Penn Central "mating worms" black, and PRR single stripe green)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f1/PRR_4927_at_IRM.jpg/800px-PRR_4927_at_IRM.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f1/PRR_4927_at_IRM.jpg)

Jeff

[WuhWuzDat]

While we are on the subject of GG1's, earlier this year I had a bit of spare time, and a weird idea....."What if we took a GG1 and....."

Well I did almost EVERYthing I could think of to fill in that empty space after the "and" , with some bizzare, funny, and sometimes VERY strange results.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3152/2393842252_994d304946_o.gif

For more (non-animated) strangeness, try my website: http://www.wideopenwest.com/~cbq9911/

Jeff

[Willy]

I was the Chief Engineer on an old diesel electric tug boat for a couple of years when I was in the Navy. Those old DC generators, motors and controller panels can be quite difficult to work with. Especially when your electricians don't seem to understand direct current. Most of our problems were in the controller panels. Bits would fry out and we couldn't get replacement parts as it was all made during WWII.

We made it back to the pier more than once with bits of cardboard holding circuit switches closed so we could keep going.

[srgalahad]

Jeff

Does any one know if you can get a brass O gauge model of the GG1 anywhere ?, preferably as a kit as I tend to prefer to make them myself.

Michael

Sunset Models has one listed: http://www.3rdrail.com/reservation.html#gg1
or you might be able to find one of these:
http://users.foxvalley.net/~osn/BillWolfer1996.htm

Also ran into this: http://www.kohs.net/PDFs/GG-1%20Specification%20Sheet.pdf
and they list two for sale: http://www.kohs.net/Roundhouse/Roundhouse.htm

I wish you guys hadn't started this thread! Now I'm going to get distracted and start thinking about the empire not-yet-built in the basement.. and then the wife will...:argue:

Rob

[WuhWuzDat]

Willy, was that the tug with the Fairbanks Morse OP engine(s)??

We've got 2 FM locomotives, including the 1st one they built.

ruQqXtDdKTc

Jeff

[ckissling]

And here is the King. The Union Pacific Big Boy 4-8-8-4.
For Wuh Wuz Dat, I lived in Beloit wisconsin where the FM locos were
built, everyone in my family worked there,Grandfathers all the way to me.
My father would take me over there when a new one rolled out of the
paint shop.ckissling

[PSULLYKEYS]

Good pickup.....I didn't make myself clear....since the G was a double ender, the center between the operating cabs had the steam jenny and the transformer.

The AC motors were a result of not having rectifyers when the locos were built in the 30s The G's were preceded by 2 other elec locos, the P5 and the P5 modified (which looked like a baby G) and 1920s coaches turned into self propelled MU cars.

You are correct, in a former life I was lucky enough to operate trains in the northeast with electric and diesel power.

WWD: neat stuff!!!:applause:

[michael davies]

Sunset Models has one listed: http://www.3rdrail.com/reservation.html#gg1
or you might be able to find one of these:
http://users.foxvalley.net/~osn/BillWolfer1996.htm

Also ran into this: http://www.kohs.net/PDFs/GG-1%20Specification%20Sheet.pdf
and they list two for sale: http://www.kohs.net/Roundhouse/Roundhouse.htm

I wish you guys hadn't started this thread! Now I'm going to get distracted and start thinking about the empire not-yet-built in the basement.. and then the wife will...:argue:

Rob

Thank you some excellent links there :), the Kohs site has some other nice models too, though they all look like RTR so the price will be correspondingly high, though considering the amount of brass, not that much higher than a UK sized RTR steamer in O gauge. Certainly nine months ago with the poor ( good for UK ) exchange rate, any of them would have been a very good buy.

Dont worry about the distraction, its good for you LOL.

Best

Michael

[srgalahad]

At least mine is N-scale so I don't have to build an addition to the house Michael
:focus::rapture:

[michael davies]

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

<o:p></o:p>
Contrary to what some people think, the motors in a GG1 are brush type motors, fully capable of running on either low frequency AC, or DC current. A true ac induction motor would tend to be a "single speed" motor, unless equipped with a variable frequency drive. While such drives are quite common nowadays, I think it would have taken an auxiliary car hooked up to the locomotive to carry the equipment need to do this with 1930' or 40's vacuum tube and mercury rectifier technology. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Jeff<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Jeff, I'm not an 'experten' on GG1s LOL, but if my dim college recollections are correct then brushed AC motors are generally for rotor excitation and its via slip rings ?, as opposed to comm bars ?, if the GG1 follows that principle then the current through the slip rings is drastically lower than say the current through a DC motor comm bar, probably in the order of 10-20Amps, its basically there to supply rotor excitation so the stator can do most of the work, the Stator windings then take the larger starting current and through fixed terminations. Adjustments to the rotor current would give an effective form of motor control.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
The other problem with comm bars is that there are lots of them, all separated by insulation, the leading edge of each comm bar effectively becomes a mini chisel and scrapes off the bottom of the brush, slips rings don’t have that problem as there perfectly smooth all the way around so carbon dust is drastically reduced. Certainly images I've seen of GG1 motors suggest a pancake type motor with out a large comm section and large brush gear as seen on axel mounted DC motors of the day.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
I'd be interested to know how the motors can be run on DC, as I say its a long time since I was at college LOL so ze old grey cells are not what they used to be, but I do recall something about some motors be dual supply rated, I think we called them 'universal' motors or something. I suspect its probably only one or two shunt settings for solo loco movements ?, and at a very tenuous guess may have been an added function at building ( but never used ? ) with a view to perhaps shunting them around yards, especially at Sunnyside NY with its side contact 600V DC third rail set up as used by LIRR ?.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Maybe some PRR depots used an overhead track with an umbilical that attached to the loco for shed movements, such a system is popular in the UK for London underground depots, a slotted overhead track has a lanyard type block that collects power and can slide down the slot, the other end is an umbilical cable that is plugged into the train allowing shunt movements at 5mph, very low power and very safe, no overhead or third rail power lines inside the shed, thus allowing full access under and over the stock.<o:p></o:p>
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Hmm from steam engines to electric motor mechanics, none the less an interesting diversion, but as srgalahad suggests, back to topic LOL.<o:p></o:p>
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Kindest<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Michael

[WuhWuzDat]

Michael,
The GG1 DID use "universal" motors.

No, the GG1's did not run off of DC, but their predecessor, the NYNH&H EP3 (which used the same motors as the GE version of the GG1), did when running of NYC 3rd rail, in Grand Central terminal.

Jeff

[michael davies]

Michael,
The GG1 DID use "universal" motors.

No, the GG1's did not run off of DC, but their predecessor, the NYNH&H EP3 (which used the same motors as the GE version of the GG1), did when running of NYC 3rd rail, in Grand Central terminal.

Jeff

Aha, that makes sense, I think all of the NYNH&H juice jacks were dual current collectors ?, and I believe the GG1 designers looked very closely at the 20 wheel bogies over there for ride comfort and picked them for the GG1. I think most of the ride comfort comes from the sheer mass of the cast bogie bed plate, over time I suspect they 'ironed' out most of the track bed lumps and bumps LOL.

Best

Michael

[Panther_99FS]

http://www.artemisimages.com/detail.aspx?photomode=3&categoryid=4984&photoid=AA02425

http://www.artemisimages.com/detail.aspx?photomode=3&categoryid=4870&photoid=AA02396

http://www.artemisimages.com/detail.aspx?photomode=3&categoryid=4870&photoid=AA00571

http://www.artemisimages.com/detail.aspx?photomode=3&categoryid=4870&photoid=aa02312

[srgalahad]

http://www.supertrain.ca/

If you watch the intro slideshow you'll even see that it's appropriate content for the Outhouse...

Yes, I'll be offline April 17-19th for the obvious reason:wiggle:

This keeps up we're going to need our own forum here :gossip:

Rob