Support Oleg--please read

[KOM.Nausicaa]

Please read this and think about giving Oleg your support.


This was posted by Oleg on SimHQ:
Hi,

please look this topic

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/63110913/m/4371027863

Please post there your opinion.
Need it for publisher.

For us will be too hard to support two new branches of versions with new updates (russian and worldwide), so would be good to release it as well across Ubi

Please pay attention. These Russian add-ons has nothing common with the listed by me plane's add-ons in august with third party models of the planes (Italian, English, German, etc) which planeed to be release in one big or two separate free add-ons.

and

DVD with FB+AEP+PF is planned by Ubi.
We already prepared such version and call it paltinum here. However these add-ons are for v4.02m and this platinum version (also 4.02m)


Here is the thread on SimHQ:

http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=144;t=001263

[Dauntless]

After getting ripped off by Oleg with Pacific fighters, I'll never buy another Oleg product again at full price, no matter what the content. Pacific Fighters is worthless without any American torpedo aircraft. As for any other Oleg products coming out, I'll just wait till they are in the bargain bin at Big Lots for $6.00, like Forgotten Battles and AEP has been lately.

[mississippi]

Are the addon's going tobe four PF stand alone to? :) :sheep:

[HundertzehnGustav]

confuses me even more.

UNIFY all versions dammit.... and scrap CDs go for DVDs.

[MobyGrape]

This is a Little bit like what is and has happened with Lockon..By Eagle dynamics..a Russian company..that ubi produced.

Flaming cliffs addon was developed for the Russian market..
And offered as a download..outside russsia..Payware.

ED made a deal with the Track IR people to distribute it on CD with a purchase.or non purchase of Tir..

Then after a lot of frustration with downloaded version and starforce protection..Eagle made a deal with Evolved games to release a GOLD ed of lockon..that included Flaming cliffs..

Now they have a new addon in the works, Black Shark..a flyable version of the ka50..whoooHOo..

i would like to see Oleg be successful in having addons reach the US and world market{almost for you guys..Lol}...

I agree Pf is not a very complete game..by itself..

but its giving me time to learn the stick controls and flight dynamics..
Aloha

[KOM.Nausicaa]

Are the addon's going tobe four PF stand alone to?

UNIFY all versions dammit.... and scrap CDs go for DVDs.

After getting ripped off by Oleg with Pacific fighters, I'll never buy another Oleg product again at full price, no matter what the content. Pacific Fighters is worthless without any American torpedo aircraft

You guys don't get it.


That is what all this is about, namely put IL2+AEP+PF on one DVD, including all addons and patches, and the russian add-on, so it can be available for the western market. This can only have one vote: a big YES. (you wont see the russian addon otherwise)

It will be a platinum edition, for a lower price then PF new probably. As for the rest, Oleg is absolutely not responsible for all this, please blame the right guy, namlely UBI and the distibutors, and 1C bosses (which Oleg is not)

All what this is about here is to convince the bosses, that is why Oleg needs your vote, to print it out and put it on the desk in the conference room where the guys with the ties and suits will sit.

As to blame Oleg for missing torpedos in PF, you should really get your facts right. Blame the US lawyers of the airplane companies, blame the developers of PF (which Oleg is not)

Please vote over ther, it is important; thanks.

Naus

[mississippi]

That's if you don't heve them they need to be a free download four those who heve IL2FB are PF i' had IL2.FB it cost me 49$ thin i pad 29$ four PF i'd stell heve IL2 .FB but the cd got bad win it was stell new they wrlted10$ four a new cd thar's all most to much :sheep:

[KOM.Nausicaa]

The problem is that AEP is not available here anymore,and IL2 hardly. We in Europe had no Gold Pack. Relaunching all included in a complete edition is necessary to ensure the life of this sim, and especially the online life. It is also a preparation for an IL2 being open architecture.

This idea should be supported.

[MobyGrape]

i would like to see Oleg be successful in having addons reach the US and world market{almost for you guys..Lol}...

should read..(almost forgot you guys..}

[HundertzehnGustav]

You guys don't get it.


That is what all this is about, namely put IL2+AEP+PF on one DVD, including all addons and patches, and the russian add-on, so it can be available for the western market. This can only have one vote: a big YES. (you wont see the russian addon otherwise)

It will be a platinum edition, for a lower price then PF new probably. As for the rest, Oleg is absolutely not responsible for all this, please blame the right guy, namlely UBI and the distibutors, and 1C bosses (which Oleg is not)

All what this is about here is to convince the bosses, that is why Oleg needs your vote, to print it out and put it on the desk in the conference room where the guys with the ties and suits will sit.

As to blame Oleg for missing torpedos in PF, you should really get your facts right. Blame the US lawyers of the airplane companies, blame the developers of PF (which Oleg is not)

Please vote over ther, it is important; thanks.

Naus

every vote counts, i will do so.
And as you guess, i want EVERYTHING. The more real Planes the better.

except that Luft 46 stuff wich will gather dust....:costumes:

Now i get it; thanks a bunch:)

waste of money- dont think so.

[redriver6]

This idea should be supported.

i'll second that....heck i got FB, AEP and PF but i'd probably by the DVD with everything on it if was available.

[Dauntless]

I'll support this for the good of the community and just not purchase it myself, as I really can't believe it was just the Lawyers and the Company Suits that rushed out PF. I've read on a site and I can't really remember which, (maybe Check-Six or Netwings) where Oleg and AV History Bear had a discussion about the torpedo thing and the copyrights associated with Grumman. I've all of Oleg's sims from the original IL2 to PF, so it's not like I just got PF and complain about it being an incomplete game, which it is.

[Stickshaker]

I will definitely buy a DVD with the complete series on it, including the Russion add-ons.

[KOM.Nausicaa]

PF was a theatre Oleg never really wanted to go in. I think it's just not his kind of theatre, but this is my personal impression and I might be wrong. Fact is that Luthier (if I recall his name correctly) was the driving force behind PF. It was a project that had probably a limited budget and enthousiasm (at least from Oleg I guess) and got a "ok" if it would be done under this or that conditions only (means often "fast and cheap"). UBI supported it without doubt, especially for commercial reasons, because PF is a theatre dear to americans, and America is a big market, maybe the biggest. It was a commercial thing for UBI. Who knows? Maybe the agreement was to give a "green light" for Olegs BoB, if he would first do something with commercial security, means a big game targeted for the American market...PF. I am speculating, but I wouldn't be surprised if something like that would be at play here. I know this kind of "contracts",from my own work in the Movie Industry.

Everybody knows that the current PF is incomplete and I think Oleg, Luthier and Team tried honestly to upgrade it slowly to something more complete via patches, as they still do with IL2, but for some stuff they hurted themselves on copyright (!) issues, and I think that nobody honestly expected that. Everybody with some sense in their bones will agree how absurd this copyright idea is.

You should see the good things in PF, and stop blaming always Oleg for all that is wrong or missing. Many people focus way too much on one guy and hold him responsible for everything. If you think PF is incomplete you are not wrong, but it won't change much anymore (although Luthier said he had some surprises to come yet). Accept that Olegs attention is now fully directed towards his new engine which will be reveiled in BoB, and I am sure that all other WW2 combat sims will fade away the day that it will be released, including his own IL2 series.

Not supporting the "Platinum" edition because of an incomplete PF is however the complete wrong decision IMO. It is "throwing out the child with the bath" as the saying goes in Germany and does ultimately nothing else then hurting the wrong guy. We need to support Oleg, his company and the future of the offline and online community of his flightsim series, so that IL2/AEP/PF continues to live, so that money comes into the company, and so that Oleg can defend and realize his dreams for the future of flightsims.

Nausicaa

[Ridge]

After getting ripped off by Oleg with Pacific fighters, I'll never buy another Oleg product again at full price, no matter what the content. Pacific Fighters is worthless without any American torpedo aircraft. As for any other Oleg products coming out, I'll just wait till they are in the bargain bin at Big Lots for $6.00, like Forgotten Battles and AEP has been lately.

Agreed. I wont support Oleg until he supports us! We still havent gotten what we were payed for in Pacific Fighters. Aircraft like the flyable Betty, divebombers, etc!

Hell, Im within a bad day of launching a class action suit against him!

PF was a theatre Oleg never really wanted to go in. I think it's just not his kind of theatre, but this is my personal impression and I might be wrong. Fact is that Luthier (if I recall his name correctly) was the driving force behind PF. It was a project that had probably a limited budget and enthousiasm (at least from Oleg I guess) and got a "ok" if it would be done under this or that conditions only (means often "fast and cheap"). UBI supported it without doubt, especially for commercial reasons, because PF is a theatre dear to americans, and America is a big market, maybe the biggest. It was a commercial thing for UBI. Who knows? Maybe the agreement was to give a "green light" for Olegs BoB, if he would first do something with commercial security, means a big game targeted for the American market...PF. I am speculating, but I wouldn't be surprised if something like that would be at play here. I know this kind of "contracts",from my own work in the Movie Industry.

Everybody knows that the current PF is incomplete and I think Oleg, Luthier and Team tried honestly to upgrade it slowly to something more complete via patches, as they still do with IL2, but for some stuff they hurted themselves on copyright (!) issues, and I think that nobody honestly expected that. Everybody with some sense in their bones will agree how absurd this copyright idea is.

You should see the good things in PF, and stop blaming always Oleg for all that is wrong or missing. Many people focus way too much on one guy and hold him responsible for everything. If you think PF is incomplete you are not wrong, but it won't change much anymore (although Luthier said he had some surprises to come yet). Accept that Olegs attention is now fully directed towards his new engine which will be reveiled in BoB, and I am sure that all other WW2 combat sims will fade away the day that it will be released, including his own IL2 series.

Not supporting the "Platinum" edition because of an incomplete PF is however the complete wrong decision IMO. It is "throwing out the child with the bath" as the saying goes in Germany and does ultimately nothing else then hurting the wrong guy. We need to support Oleg, his company and the future of the offline and online community of his flightsim series, so that IL2/AEP/PF continues to live, so that money comes into the company, and so that Oleg can defend and realize his dreams for the future of flightsims.

Nausicaa

As for Luthier, he can go to hell. He screwed over hundreds of modelers with PF! I built buildings for PF, Crashaz made several ships he spent dozens of hours building....Luthier said he got em, then when it came to paying us, he just disappeared off the face of the earth. He gets a big ol' Single Digit Salute from yours truly!

I was supposed to be paid $300....Crashaz $500!

[KOM.Nausicaa]

Aircraft like the flyable Betty

*coughs* the flyable Betty is in the game :173go1:

[Ridge]

Since when? I stopped playing at I think 4.02

[crashaz]

I don't care about the compensation... no big deal for me. However Oleg will never rule the combat simulation market so long as people are so limited in adding their own scenery,aircraft,ships.


Part of what makes combat simulation so fun is that if we see something missing... we can create it with CFS2 and CFS3 and FS9. We get to participate.


Unless something is changing with BoB... I just dont see the mass movement to an Oleg dominated combat sim market.


This is not a MS sim is better statement... just stating that unless Oleg changes his MO then the sim community will not be as excited.

Case in point... was at the Avsim convention... one of the people attending came around and talked to us... he lamented that his carrier was not available to fly from in FS9. We told him we do that... he was ecstatic... made his trip from Seattle to San Diego worthwhile... all because we could add his ship to the sim and he really feel the immersion factor.

That is what a sim should do.
:)

[Dauntless]

You've got that right Crashaz! :icon29:

[KOM.Nausicaa]

Since when? I stopped playing at I think 4.02

Ok so you stopped playing since a week? Then is when 4.02 came out.
The Betty is in the game since 4.01 if I remember well, means six months ago.

However Oleg will never rule the combat simulation market so long as people are so limited in adding their own scenery,aircraft,ships.

IL2 goes open architecture somewhere after he release of BoB, as stated by Oleg in one of his last internet appearences. He added also that he is not sure about the exact concept yet, but the target is to go something similar then the MS-style-like third party addons. He said as well that he wanted nevertheless to ensure compability of online play as far as possible.

Personally I do not believe anymore in third party add-ons for combat flying, especially if the sim's priority is online. I did sit on the CFS3 waggon for almost 3 years, but I don't believe in it anymore, so i jumped off. It's great for offline, but in online nothing beats compability, stability, and simplicity, as well as official updates, which are the same for all.

On the bottom line: I am dam happy nobody messes with the sim.

But if Oleg wants to go openess, then thats fine too. It's a smart decision to keep the life of this series going after BoB is released.

[crashaz]

To each their own. To own the combat sim market as you say... Oleg must be authentic in his environment. To own the combat sim market... you must be appealing to those that have MS sims.

Those people... who when they see something wrong or left out... currently have other avenues to get it added to the sim. They do not have to wait for a patch from the developer most times.

Case in point... in Pacific Fighters... they have Pearl Harbor... but it is populated by King George V class British battleships! That will make combat simmers mad. :mad: Now they have no avenue to get US battleships added to the sim. I made the USS Arizona for them with the tripod masts but it did not make the release for some reason. Arizona was not built at Newport News but the Brooklyn Naval Shipyard.... Grumman own the rights to that too??

Now lets take a look at MS.... CFS2.... they did not even add Hawaiian scenery... just plane jane.... ah.... we can fix that... and the PHP2 team will. By the time we are finished we will have the best Pearl Harbor and Oahu scenery out there.... in ANY sim. Now the CFS2 and FS9 simmers will be ecstatic...because... hey we didn't get it in the gold release.... but MS gave us the tools to get it done right.

I think to say that online performance is the most important thing is wrong... BoB better have airfields that are the correct layout... use the proper hangars... have the radar stations and do a decent job with representing cities. Otherwise..... there will be no option to get this added after release in a decent timeframe.

I will buy BoB just like I bought the latest BoB.... still has not replaced my favorite... but I want to support the genre.

Always has been a fight in the development of combat sims.... people want immersion... which part.... the scenery, environment/weather, the flight models, the aircraft, campaigns and missions, the online performance and options.... they all differ on.

They do love the tools handy to change it themselves though.:)

[HundertzehnGustav]

crashaz i put a bunch of different ships in to pearl.
i am not an merican, so personally(1 voice out of many) i am happy with a bunch of Kirovs Tashkents a K.G. V and a "red" Bismark or two.

they all have a truckload of AAA and thats what i fly into... or around.:)

[Ridge]

They are nice models, but the only way to be farther from realistic is to replace the BBs with tugboats or cargo ships!

If IL-2 does go open architecture, I will be happy..

I never got a chance to fly the Betty in PF...I havent flown PF in over a year...but I was sure that I had installed at least 1 patch in PF...no...wait...it was always 2 weeks away...for 6 months...I guess the last version I flew was 4.00...

[Ridge]

Okay, last patch I flew was 3.02! Did some reasearch :)

[KOM.Nausicaa]

patch yourself up then to 4.02--you missed some good stuff :icon29:

[Bearcat]

After getting ripped off by Oleg with Pacific fighters, I'll never buy another Oleg product again at full price, no matter what the content. Pacific Fighters is worthless without any American torpedo aircraft. As for any other Oleg products coming out, I'll just wait till they are in the bargain bin at Big Lots for $6.00, like Forgotten Battles and AEP has been lately.

I think thats a bit strong... sure Id like to do a torp run as much as the next guy.. and IMO The Avenger should absolutely be in this sim... (and didnt SBDs carry torps also?) but to say the sim is worthless because it doesnt have torp bombers? Not on your life. The half empty syndrome. It may not be perfect.. but it is IMO the best WW2 sim on the market when all the factors that make for a great sim are taken into consideration. What it does have far outweighs what is lacking. I bought all 4 of the IL2 series offerings at full price... some of them more than once... and truth be told.. I would not want to spend too much more than I would have to on just the add ons.... but I will support this sim. I have spent way more than the cost of a flight sim on BS that is now in the ocean or a landfill somewhere.... I still get daily enjoyment from this series..... and I cant say that about much. The last time I went to see a movie.. Star Wars III in fact... I spent over $60... and that was just on the tickets for 4 and the refreshments.... one round and not a lot either... It was good too.. but now it is a memory. (I'll buy it though... so me and the boy can do our Star Wars Marathon) I believe Oleg did say something about opening up the map making and objecs to 3rd party people.. but keeping the FM and DM dynamics of the aircraft locked up. Which is as it should be AFAIC. I hope the FMs and DMs are never ever opened up to third party people... until the sim is way past it's life cycle. While there are lots of talented folks who took that piece of garbage that was CFS3 out of the box and actually turned it into something resembling a flight sim.. and they are the ones who deserve all the kudos for that... there is still no better WW2 sim on the market than FB 4.xx... That is of course is my opinion.... and If I had to choose between letting the talented folks who can actually do some good.. and the dweebs and cheaters who would do anything other than learn the FM of thier virtual mount to get a kill online loose on the sim..... or just keeping that book closed and letting those same talented people turn thier skills elsewhere and maintain the integrity.. good or bad.. of the sim.. I will choose and hope fro the latter every time.

To each their own. To own the combat sim market as you say... Oleg must be authentic in his environment. To own the combat sim market... you must be appealing to those that have MS sims.


With all due respect..... that is hogwash. As if MS sims and the MS market (and thier opinions...) was the end all and be all of comabt sims. What a load. While authenticity is demanded from the flight sim community... and we are indeed an almost (almost? :)) anal lot, with our attention to detail (across the board....scenery, FMs DMs the whole 9) ... to own the combat sim market you have to produce a good combat sim. In the end, except among the most detail oriented of folks... the FMs, DMs and graphics followed closely by the mission building, campaign building, scalability and sounds are going to be huge factors in determining how sucessfull any sim is or isnt. Flight simmers are not a huge market.. and those among us who pay such extreme attention to detail are fewer still... In a combat sim, if it flies right.. if it bombs right.. shoots right and runs right..... then that is the tale. That will determine who owns the market place. Commercially FS9 is the top dog of sims.... followed closely by X-Plane.. but in the WW2 combat genre.... you can hit 15 or 20 sites to go spend hours downloading these planes.. and that scenery... and this and that and all that stuff if you awant to..... Me? Ill take a few patches.. and fly...... Then after I get that off my chest I will find a site to get some great skins... and some AWESOME utilities to make up for some of the other shortcomings inherent in the sim.. and spend my time flying.... with hundreds of other....former MSCFS simmers... every night of the weelk if I had the time. The best part of it is.. I know that the FW 190 or the Me109 that my opponent is flying is not some modded up hotrod that he made himself... but the exact same one that is on my PC. So I can fly that plane... and find it's weaknesses.. and strengths.... and learn how to beat it... or die a thousand virtual deaths trying.. having a ball with each crater I make.

[mississippi]

Posted by Bearcat

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dauntless
After getting ripped off by Oleg with Pacific fighters, I'll never buy another Oleg product again at full price, no matter what the content. Pacific Fighters is worthless without any American torpedo aircraft. As for any other Oleg products coming out, I'll just wait till they are in the bargain bin at Big Lots for $6.00, like Forgotten Battles and AEP has been lately.



I think thats a bit strong... sure Id like to do a torp run as much as the next guy.. and IMO The Avenger should absolutely be in this sim... (and didnt SBDs carry torps also?) but to say the sim is worthless because it doesnt have torp bombers? Not on your life. The half empty syndrome. It may not be perfect.. but it is IMO the best WW2 sim on the market when all the factors that make for a great sim are taken into consideration. What it does have far outweighs what is lacking. I bought all 4 of the IL2 series offerings at full price... some of them more than once... and truth be told.. I would not want to spend too much more than I would have to on just the add ons.... but I will support this sim. I have spent way more than the cost of a flight sim on BS that is now in the ocean or a landfill somewhere.... I still get daily enjoyment from this series..... and I cant say that about much. The last time I went to see a movie.. Star Wars III in fact... I spent over $60... and that was just on the tickets for 4 and the refreshments.... one round and not a lot either... It was good too.. but now it is a memory. (I'll buy it though... so me and the boy can do our Star Wars Marathon) I believe Oleg did say something about opening up the map making and objecs to 3rd party people.. but keeping the FM and DM dynamics of the aircraft locked up. Which is as it should be AFAIC. I hope the FMs and DMs are never ever opened up to third party people... until the sim is way past it's life cycle. While there are lots of talented folks who took that piece of garbage that was CFS3 out of the box and actually turned it into something resembling a flight sim.. and they are the ones who deserve all the kudos for that... there is still no better WW2 sim on the market than FB 4.xx... That is of course is my opinion.... and If I had to choose between letting the talented folks who can actually do some good.. and the dweebs and cheaters who would do anything other than learn the FM of thier virtual mount to get a kill online loose on the sim..... or just keeping that book closed and letting those same talented people turn thier skills elsewhere and maintain the integrity.. good or bad.. of the sim.. I will choose and hope fro the latter every time.


The SBD is a torpdedo bumer .
Quote:
Originally Posted by crashaz
To each their own. To own the combat sim market as you say... Oleg must be authentic in his environment. To own the combat sim market... you must be appealing to those that have MS sims.




With all due respect..... that is hogwash. As if MS sims and the MS market (and thier opinions...) was the end all and be all of comabt sims. What a load. While authenticity is demanded from the flight sim community... and we are indeed an almost (almost? :)) anal lot, with our attention to detail (across the board....scenery, FMs DMs the whole 9) ... to own the combat sim market you have to produce a good combat sim. In the end, except among the most detail oriented of folks... the FMs, DMs and graphics followed closely by the mission building, campaign building, scalability and sounds are going to be huge factors in determining how sucessfull any sim is or isnt. Flight simmers are not a huge market.. and those among us who pay such extreme attention to detail are fewer still... In a combat sim, if it flies right.. if it bombs right.. shoots right and runs right..... then that is the tale. That will determine who owns the market place. Commercially FS9 is the top dog of sims.... followed closely by X-Plane.. but in the WW2 combat genre.... you can hit 15 or 20 sites to go spend hours downloading these planes.. and that scenery... and this and that and all that stuff if you awant to..... Me? Ill take a few patches.. and fly...... Then after I get that off my chest I will find a site to get some great skins... and some AWESOME utilities to make up for some of the other shortcomings inherent in the sim.. and spend my time flying.... with hundreds of other....former MSCFS simmers... every night of the weelk if I had the time. The best part of it is.. I know that the FW 190 or the Me109 that my opponent is flying is not some modded up hotrod that he made himself... but the exact same one that is on my PC. So I can fly that plane... and find it's weaknesses.. and strengths.... and learn how to beat it... or die a thousand virtual deaths trying.. having a ball with each crater I make.
I heve nver played CFS3 but i no a lot of people who has and most say it suck and what shot's i'm seen of it planes PF's plane's look much bater . :sheep:

[Bearcat]

The SBD is a dive bomber. No torp loadout. (I had to go find the answer to my own question....)

Look here (http://www.angelfire.com/fm/compass/cap.htm).

[Dauntless]

That is of course is my opinion....
Yes it is, as the old saying goes, everybody has one. And it could be a glass half full. Also, you must have gotten all the wrong flight sims (IL2 perhaps)not to have known that the SBD Dauntless was a dive bomber.

[crashaz]

Me? Ill take a few patches.. and fly...... Then after I get that off my chest I will find a site to get some great skins... and some AWESOME utilities to make up for some of the other shortcomings inherent in the sim.. and spend my time flying.... with hundreds of other....former MSCFS simmers... every night of the weelk if I had the time.

When you find the utility to replace British BBs in Pearl Harbor let me know. That would interest me. As stated very early in this thread.. some of us who designed for PF never got to see our models in the sim.... heck I am listed in the credits for PF! :costumes:

[Talon]

My 2 cents:What can you do that's Historical in PF?

Nothing:Examples
1.Coral Sea- No Devastator or Yorktown class carrier.
2.Midway- Same as above.
3. Solomons- all you have is Guadalcanal.
4.late war- no Helldiver,Jill,Judy.
5.Pearl Harbor-stated already wrong ships.
6. Alot of the important planes and ships are not there and will not be.

You can say all you want to about how great the planes fly but what good is that when you can't do anything historical with them.

Cfs2 is an older sim but it will outlive PF because it is open and the respected designers make very good planes and ships that aren't supped up as you would say.The serious simmer who likes historical planes and missions only changes loadouts to make them accurrate.I know whenever I do campaigns I do plenty of research before I even start.

So the bottom line is you can recreate history with CFS2 and you can't with PF.

[Dauntless]

Hey, give these guys a break! They just like to play online with this game. They used to the FM of this one, even though it's baised to the Russian point of view "where they invented everything and their's is the best in the world". So what if it's not historical except for maybe the Russian part of WWII or the greatly improved FM of any Russian plane.
As [Quote HUNDERTZEHNGUSTAV: crashaz, i put a bunch of different ships in to pearl. i am not an merican, so personally (1 voice out of many) i am happy with a bunch of Kirovs Tashkents a K.G. V and a "red" Bismark or two.]

Correct but I think the "Merican" market is huge compared to the Euro market, so if you want make a good sim, cater to the tastes that one enjoys, man. If old Oleg cared about the Euro market, (maybe not enough sales, since no gold pack) the Russian addons would have already been there. But back on the subject at hand, if you fly a German plane, especially the 109 you'll really be hurting. You'll hardly ever beat an Russian plane (in a 109) unless you can control a flying piece of crap that has no FM compared to an Russian one, even a Mig 3 or especially an I-16!, of all the planes in this sim. This has been the greatest weakness of this sim since it has came out, many posts have been posted on this but they're usually deleted as fast as they're posted on any IL2 site. Diving an S on an Russian plane in a 109 and you'll never come out of it, crashed, dead, over & out. Flying IL 2 in a Russian plane you could beat any Spit or Mustang that has ever come down the pike. But still I enjoy the first 3 even with all the faults. By the way, I read somewhere on a post in Flightsim or Simvaition, Netwings or one of them, that Hawker will want some cash for the Hurricane in Oleg's BoB, maybe he'll release BoB without a Hurricane. Hey that's cool, cause it's still the BoB, who needs a fighter that mostly attacked the bombers, when we can have a fighter that fights the vastly inferior Bf-109. Enjoy. :costumes:

[Bearcat]

Yes it is, as the old saying goes, everybody has one. And it could be a glass half full. Also, you must have gotten all the wrong flight sims (IL2 perhaps)not to have known that the SBD Dauntless was a dive bomber.

Warbirds,FA,CFS1,CFS2,CFS3..... nope.. plenty of sims... I just never got into torp bombing... so.. I had to actyually look and check before I opened my mouth... I try to avoid flossing with shoelaces when I can.. I sometimes come up short..

When you find the utility to replace British BBs in Pearl Harbor let me know. That would interest me. As stated very early in this thread.. some of us who designed for PF never got to see our models in the sim.... heck I am listed in the credits for PF! :costumes:

That sucks.... pure and simple.. work done with the promise of payment should be paid for..

My 2 cents:What can you do that's Historical in PF?

Nothing:Examples
1.Coral Sea- No Devastator or Yorktown class carrier.
2.Midway- Same as above.
3. Solomons- all you have is Guadalcanal.
4.late war- no Helldiver,Jill,Judy.
5.Pearl Harbor-stated already wrong ships.
6. Alot of the important planes and ships are not there and will not be.

You can say all you want to about how great the planes fly but what good is that when you can't do anything historical with them.

Cfs2 is an older sim but it will outlive PF because it is open and the respected designers make very good planes and ships that aren't supped up as you would say.The serious simmer who likes historical planes and missions only changes loadouts to make them accurrate.I know whenever I do campaigns I do plenty of research before I even start.

So the bottom line is you can recreate history with CFS2 and you can't with PF.

Hey man... I have fun.... online and offline.. thats all I care about. Not your cup of tea... coolness!! Me.... I like it.. to each his own....

[Ridge]

I want my money back because we were denied certain aircraft that were supposed to be in there, and hinted towards for ages...those include the SBD, TBD, TBF and many other IJN/IJA aircraft.

Certainly, the lawsuit was total BS, but Grumman got their money, there was no reason not to go ahead and include the models in the sim.

[KOM.Nausicaa]

Hey, give these guys a break! They just like to play online with this game. They used to the FM of this one, even though it's baised to the Russian point of view "where they invented everything and their's is the best in the world". So what if it's not historical except for maybe the Russian part of WWII or the greatly improved FM of any Russian plane.
As [Quote HUNDERTZEHNGUSTAV: crashaz, i put a bunch of different ships in to pearl. i am not an merican, so personally (1 voice out of many) i am happy with a bunch of Kirovs Tashkents a K.G. V and a "red" Bismark or two.]

Correct but I think the "Merican" market is huge compared to the Euro market, so if you want make a good sim, cater to the tastes that one enjoys, man. If old Oleg cared about the Euro market, (maybe not enough sales, since no gold pack) the Russian addons would have already been there. But back on the subject at hand, if you fly a German plane, especially the 109 you'll really be hurting. You'll hardly ever beat an Russian plane (in a 109) unless you can control a flying piece of crap that has no FM compared to an Russian one, even a Mig 3 or especially an I-16!, of all the planes in this sim. This has been the greatest weakness of this sim since it has came out, many posts have been posted on this but they're usually deleted as fast as they're posted on any IL2 site. Diving an S on an Russian plane in a 109 and you'll never come out of it, crashed, dead, over & out. Flying IL 2 in a Russian plane you could beat any Spit or Mustang that has ever come down the pike. But still I enjoy the first 3 even with all the faults. By the way, I read somewhere on a post in Flightsim or Simvaition, Netwings or one of them, that Hawker will want some cash for the Hurricane in Oleg's BoB, maybe he'll release BoB without a Hurricane. Hey that's cool, cause it's still the BoB, who needs a fighter that mostly attacked the bombers, when we can have a fighter that fights the vastly inferior Bf-109. Enjoy. :costumes:

wow in this post you mixed up pretty much everything.

[KOM.Nausicaa]

I think thats a bit strong... sure Id like to do a torp run as much as the next guy.. and IMO The Avenger should absolutely be in this sim... (and didnt SBDs carry torps also?) but to say the sim is worthless because it doesnt have torp bombers? Not on your life. The half empty syndrome. It may not be perfect.. but it is IMO the best WW2 sim on the market when all the factors that make for a great sim are taken into consideration. What it does have far outweighs what is lacking. I bought all 4 of the IL2 series offerings at full price... some of them more than once... and truth be told.. I would not want to spend too much more than I would have to on just the add ons.... but I will support this sim. I have spent way more than the cost of a flight sim on BS that is now in the ocean or a landfill somewhere.... I still get daily enjoyment from this series..... and I cant say that about much. The last time I went to see a movie.. Star Wars III in fact... I spent over $60... and that was just on the tickets for 4 and the refreshments.... one round and not a lot either... It was good too.. but now it is a memory. (I'll buy it though... so me and the boy can do our Star Wars Marathon) I believe Oleg did say something about opening up the map making and objecs to 3rd party people.. but keeping the FM and DM dynamics of the aircraft locked up. Which is as it should be AFAIC. I hope the FMs and DMs are never ever opened up to third party people... until the sim is way past it's life cycle. While there are lots of talented folks who took that piece of garbage that was CFS3 out of the box and actually turned it into something resembling a flight sim.. and they are the ones who deserve all the kudos for that... there is still no better WW2 sim on the market than FB 4.xx... That is of course is my opinion.... and If I had to choose between letting the talented folks who can actually do some good.. and the dweebs and cheaters who would do anything other than learn the FM of thier virtual mount to get a kill online loose on the sim..... or just keeping that book closed and letting those same talented people turn thier skills elsewhere and maintain the integrity.. good or bad.. of the sim.. I will choose and hope fro the latter every time.



With all due respect..... that is hogwash. As if MS sims and the MS market (and thier opinions...) was the end all and be all of comabt sims. What a load. While authenticity is demanded from the flight sim community... and we are indeed an almost (almost? :)) anal lot, with our attention to detail (across the board....scenery, FMs DMs the whole 9) ... to own the combat sim market you have to produce a good combat sim. In the end, except among the most detail oriented of folks... the FMs, DMs and graphics followed closely by the mission building, campaign building, scalability and sounds are going to be huge factors in determining how sucessfull any sim is or isnt. Flight simmers are not a huge market.. and those among us who pay such extreme attention to detail are fewer still... In a combat sim, if it flies right.. if it bombs right.. shoots right and runs right..... then that is the tale. That will determine who owns the market place. Commercially FS9 is the top dog of sims.... followed closely by X-Plane.. but in the WW2 combat genre.... you can hit 15 or 20 sites to go spend hours downloading these planes.. and that scenery... and this and that and all that stuff if you awant to..... Me? Ill take a few patches.. and fly...... Then after I get that off my chest I will find a site to get some great skins... and some AWESOME utilities to make up for some of the other shortcomings inherent in the sim.. and spend my time flying.... with hundreds of other....former MSCFS simmers... every night of the weelk if I had the time. The best part of it is.. I know that the FW 190 or the Me109 that my opponent is flying is not some modded up hotrod that he made himself... but the exact same one that is on my PC. So I can fly that plane... and find it's weaknesses.. and strengths.... and learn how to beat it... or die a thousand virtual deaths trying.. having a ball with each crater I make.

I agree with most what you say, but one correction has to be made: When you say that "I know that the FW 190 or the Me109 that my opponent is flying is not some modded up hotrod that he made himself... but the exact same one that is on my PC. " you are wrong if you suppose this to happen in CFS3. You cannot unknowingly fly against a user modded plane, as all planes must have the same characteristics, or you will be unable to join the MP room. (the system compares the files of all planes and will announce a "mismatch" if differencies are found).

Nausicaa

[Neil Washbrook]

Dips toe in water and contemplates if it is safe to join in :icon_lol:

I for one was very disapointed with PF for two very simple reasons, both of which have been identified above

1. Lack of Torp bombers
2. Lack of decent ship targets

When I heard way before the initial announcement that it was going to be a Pacific Release I was pleased that I was going to get the chance to recreate my CFS2 experiences using the Maddox sims.

This is sadly not the case, I am not American but detest the thought of flying a Pearl Harbour mission against British Battleships. The selection of British, Japanese and American Ships is very poor especially as there is no opportunity to add your own. I dont mind so much not having the ability to add aircraft but the opportunity to add additional ground units and ships would have taken this sim to another level.

The opportunity was also missed in my opinion to uprate the mission engine to include random events and triggers along with an improvement in the ship AI to take avoiding action and the Torpedo Bombing modelling.

I know the title is Pacific Fighters but a big opportunity has been missed (for whatever reason).

Gets out of the water, sits down with the popcorn to continue watching :D

[KOM.Nausicaa]

I dont mind so much not having the ability to add aircraft but the opportunity to add additional ground units and ships would have taken this sim to another level.

You are right--I am afraid though we have to wait until the IL2/PF series goes "open" when BoB is released, to do so.

The opportunity was also missed in my opinion to uprate the mission engine to include random events and triggers

depends....not everybody likes randoms events and triggers. If they are hardly controlable (or understandable), for a Misssion Builder the are a pain in the ***(talking of my 2 years CFS3 life here).
But I heard they are thinking of implementing something like this in BoB. Hopefully with the possibility of turning them off with a simple switch too.

[Bearcat]

Triggers would be good. Even if you had to make the "If /Then" scenario completlely.. as if it were another mission. I think they will open up the object and map making to third parties.... that would be good. I would also be down for 3rd party modeling of AC.. as long as the models were done to the same standard.. or better.... and as long as 1C put in the DMs... and damage parameters... I just like the idea of one central source... even if that source is not always 100% correct.... for the flight characteristics. But thats me....

[Neil Washbrook]

If done properly by the mission designers triggers and random elements could make missions far more replayable. Turning a mission from a milk run on one flying to the mission from hell when flown again.

I am fairly certain that maps will not become generally availabe for user addition, read in one of Ians posts somewhere that the map tool was proprietory to UBI and they were not willing to let it out on general release. However Oleg has steadfastly refused to add them.

Reliance on 1C Maddox to add the Damage models etc on planes is basically the situation we have already. Ships, vehicles and ground objects I would have thought would be easier to open up as the number of parameters are significantly reduced - ie no FM

[Bearcat]

True. I wonder if the code is structured in such a way that to open up part of it leaves the door open to cracking the whole thing.

[Snuffy]

Though I own copies of IL2/FB/AEP/PF/Etc., the software is not on my computer and sits in boxes gathering dust on my shelves.

As was noted, everyone's taste is different. As is mine. I am a level bomber multi engined aircraft pilot who needs vast amounts of room for organizing and flying a formation of bombers into enemy territory and back again to the safety of home base.

When Mr. Maddox decides that he wants to model the whole world and not limit me to flying on postage stamp for maps, then I will reconsider my ownership of these programs. For now they're trash just waiting for clean up day.

With that lack .. of world map access, IL2/FB/AEP/PF/Etc., is nothing but a toy game. Not a true simulator. Not like FS9.

Until Mr. Maddox decides to get off his lack of interest in things important to his client community. and gives the community what it wants ... Mr. Maddox can choke on his "play it my way and like it" mentality.

There is no doubt in my mind that some of the things Mr. Maddox has done is very cutting edge and revolutionairy, very pretty. But when I can not use what he has produced to my enjoyment, I'll find my satisfaction else where.

No! I think not supporting Mr. Maddox is a safe call for me.

[KOM.Nausicaa]

I don't get this "whole world" arguments for a WWII combat sim. Do you miss making a bombing run in Arkansas? A fighter sweep in Peru? A dogfight over New Zealand? Is it a BAD sim or no sim at all, if you don't get that? That is BS. It just eats up discspace and computer power.

Maps can be small (not too small) but they should be well done, and be historically correct, and have lots of detail. They don't have to cover North to Southpole!

and BTW, the maps of IL2/PF are not that small (except the specific online maps), some of the bigger ask several hours to be flown through in an average WWII bomber like the B25. The vast majority of online and offline players skips already "to next wp" on those. or hit the time acceleration button! Who, seriously, flies in real time B17 transfer flights from the USA to England over Greenland?? Tell the wife then that you are not available for the next 72 hours, and that she brings food and drink to your room. (if you are lucky, your pleasure during that long flight will be to spot a german sub or two---if the weather is good! )

[crashaz]

Who, seriously, flies in real time B17 transfer flights from the USA to England over Greenland?? Tell the wife then that you are not available for the next 72 hours, and that she brings food and drink to your room. (if you are lucky, your pleasure during that long flight will be to spot a german sub or two---if the weather is good! )

:costumes: we do.... yeah we will fly complete bombing missions. Heck I flew the Doolittle Raid in CFS2. Took off from U.S.S Hornet circled the Task Force to get my bearings and then flew 700+ miles to Tokyo. After the bomb run... made haste to leave the area...
(triggers fighters designed in Mission Builder for specific time areas that I had to arrive on target and egress before the triggers fired bringing fighters!)

stayed close to the ground flying nap of the earth over mountains and thru valleys.... arrived at Sea of Japan and then out to sea... climbed for altitude and tried to squeeze the gas to China... made it about 25 miles inland... so I didn't have to land off the beach like the 'Ruptured Duck' and Ted Lawson did.


All this done with custom aircraft texture, custom ships, custom target and custom mesh.

If we want to do a what-if campaign... Kido Butai attacks the States or the Panama Canal we can. If we want to go on U-boat patrol in a PBY over the Gulf of Mexico we can. If we want to fly supplies over the Hump in a C-47 we can.


That is why a lot of us like this approach. Heck we can build it ourselves and now have to wait for Oleg to approve it and have it added to the next patch.

:p87:

PF is NOT a BAD sim... but for those of us who want to fight all over....it was a World War.... well we can do it ourselves.

[Talon]

I think one of the things Snuffy is talking about is incomplete maps like for Guadalcanal.You need all of the Solomons because the attacks on Guadacanal came from as far away as Rabaul.Even on the N.G. map you need Rabaul.The people in the PF forums even say this.

I fly PF and even uploaded a mission pack for it but it still is not historical because of the ships and planes missing.

[Snuffy]

And I'm mentioning things like mebbe the entire island of England and it's surrounds, the whole channel, all of Normandy, France, Netherlands, and Germany for those really good missions. Entire land & sea scapes for crying out loud. Give us the whole of the theater of operations not just a postage stamp.

In fact, just last saturday, about 6 of us got together on Netwings and flew from Alconbury U.K. to Bremen and back ... REAL TIME and could do it because we had the whole world to fly with ... and not an Oleg postage stamp map. It took us about 6 hours.

Thanks for the support and clarifications guys! http://home.earthlink.net/~tphadden/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/salute.gif

[KOM.Nausicaa]

Yep, there are some guys like you who fly super long flights like that. I can even understand that there might be a thrill to recreate such a thing as the Doolittle raid. But that you need the whole world, and that include things like South-America, Antarctica, Greenland and the Himalaya, to call a sim "a sim", and if not, "not a sim" that stays completey out of my comprehension.

What bothers me more is the unfairness of this critic when being directed towards Oleg. Do I have to remember you that IL2 is an old game, which was originally just groundpounding in 1000m alt ?? The engine was never designed to deliver what you seek ! No one, included Oleg, did foresee the longlasting success it had, and no one ever imagined it would have one day all the planes it has today, neither the theatres it has today. The IL2 engine has been stretched and stretched to the absolute limits what it can deliver, like a chewing gum you stretch until you come to the point of rupture. This "point of rupture" has been reached, and even a bit more ! But it has been stretched in the first place on public demand, you might keep that in mind. It is high time for Oleg to step on and to make something new, something that can give more of what some in the flight community wants, and that is excatly what he is doing. Big Maps will be part of this as well. You can't turn a duck into an eagle, if so then start your design from scratch. Your critics should, if the would be fair, be directed towards Oleg's upcoming game, not towards the old one.

[bzhyoyo]

Yep, there are some guys like you who fly super long flights like that. I can even understand that there might be a thrill to recreate such a thing as the Doolittle raid. But that you need the whole world, and that include things like South-America, Antarctica, Greenland and the Himalaya, to call a sim "a sim", and if not, "not a sim" that stays completey out of my comprehension.

Completely agree with this and that argument goes too for cfs3. ;) It's just a matter of opinion, of course. That you need some parts of the world, and large areas at that, is fine. But I don't think a lof of people would be interested in creating a what-if campaign in a war between Russia and Brasil :costumes: Most combat flight simmers are interested in recreating historical episodes. (BTW, I understand you've dropped the ball on your bob campaign, Naus, and that's a shame, but I understand how demanding a task it must have been).

Basically, it also boils down to : do we want a sim that does a limited thing and does it well or do we want a sim that includes everything (whole world, from Wright's plane to the F-22) but does it not so well ? My preference goes to the former.
So I don't want BOB to include a map of Italy but I want a very precise map of Northern France and Southern England (well, the whole BOB theater, including the Netherlands too, etc...)

[Bearcat]

While there are indeed improvements in this sim that could be made in several areas.. as it is it more than qualifies as a sim.. and for someone to buy it.. and not fly it... makes no sense at all to me. To say that this is not a sim because it doesnt have all the maps you think it should.. whether you are right or wrong.... misses the entire poijnt of flying a sim... Meanwhile on other boards we have guys saying... "Oh the missions are too long and boring...." Go figure. One thing for sure.. this sim.. and it IS a sim.... certainly stands as a living monument to the old addage.... "You cant please everybody....." :costumes:

[HundertzehnGustav]

Another point:
how much do you want to pay?
Invest?
Money
Time
brand new PC to handle about 1000 Bombers on their Way to Berlin and back... or south to italy or UK to Russia Shuttlebombing
Ploesty Raid
Paint Planes
build custom Campaigns


me:
1000 for PC
25 Il2FB
20 aep
25 Il2FB cause i gave my first copy to "someone else" hehe hey brussels
50 PF
20 for Joystick
0 for X45 (hello brussels)
2.50 for vaseline (improve x45 handling)
5 for Patch download on internet cafe time
---

a very cheap game, given what i got from it on about 2 and a half years now
over, and i mean it...
WELL OVER 700 flying hours
mebe even close to 1000 now, who knows.

0.02€

[crashaz]

One thing for sure.. this sim.. and it IS a sim.... certainly stands as a living monument to the old addage.... "You cant please everybody....." :costumes:

Think that goes for most sims!:costumes:

IL-2 is a sim, PF is a sim, the entire MS series is a sim.

The one I think got the closest to having it all....... Falcon 4.0.. campaigns, ground forces, entire map of Korea... accurate geography, weapons,clouds, AI and flight environment.

Phew now if the same could only be said for us propheads. :p87:

[Dauntless]

All of this about supporting Oleg just leds me to one conclusion that the only people wanting it is the online players and the Europeans, who Oleg and Ubisoft have cruelly not allowed them to have the Russian releases (Copyright Problems?). Just a few quotes here and I'll rest my case.

Quote: (That is what all this is about, namely put IL2+AEP+PF on one DVD, including all addons and patches, and the russian add-on, so it can be available for the western market. This can only have one vote: a big YES. (you wont see the russian addon otherwise).

Answer: Why pay for the same the games again, why not just what he has so cruelly let only the Russian market have and not the Euro or Merican market?

Quote: (The problem is that AEP is not available here anymore,and IL2 hardly. We in Europe had no Gold Pack. Relaunching all included in a complete edition is necessary to ensure the life of this sim, and especially the online life. It is also a preparation for an IL2 being open architecture.)

Quote: (Personally I do not believe anymore in third party add-ons for combat flying, especially if the sim's priority is online.)

Answer: Why should people who just purchase a sim for fun and not to play
on line have to support the people that do? Also why Euro doesn't have the Gold Pack or Pe2, it must be Oleg doesn't really care about the Euro market because it's not a cash cow.

Quote: (I don't get this "whole world" arguments for a WWII combat sim. Do you miss making a bombing run in Arkansas? A fighter sweep in Peru? A dogfight over New Zealand? Is it a BAD sim or no sim at all, if you don't get that? That is BS. It just eats up discspace and computer power.)

Quote: (Yep, there are some guys like you who fly super long flights like that. I can even understand that there might be a thrill to recreate such a thing as the Doolittle raid. But that you need the whole world, and that include things like South-America, Antarctica, Greenland and the Himalaya, to call a sim "a sim", and if not, "not a sim" that stays completey out of
my comprehension..)

Quote: (Maps can be small (not too small) but they should be well done, and be historically correct, and have lots of detail.)

Answer: How historical was the maps for the US and GB Normandy campaign? What was that small island supposed to be GB? And are we supposed to wait while the Master releases BoB to see the small island become a silver of GB and wait for the addons? Also how much of WW II was in South America, Peru, Arkansas, or Antarctica? The reason why you don't get this is because all you do is play on line and never want to immerse yourself in a historical mission except for Quick Combat.

Quote: (The IL2 engine has been stretched and stretched to the absolute limits what it can deliver, like a chewing gum you stretch until you come to the point of rupture. This "point of rupture" has been reached, and even a bit more ! But it has been stretched in the first place on public demand, you might keep that in mind.)

Answer: Maybe that's why he should open it up to more talented people
than himself or Luthier, then maybe who knows what heights this sim
could reach?

Quote: I think one of the things Snuffy is talking about is incomplete maps like for Guadalcanal.You need all of the Solomons because the attacks on Guadacanal came from as far away as Rabaul.Even on the N.G. map you need Rabaul.The people in the PF forums even say this.

Answer: I'm very surprised that that post lasted more than 5 minutes there due to the loyal Oleg denizens that PC the posts. Just the posts about the FMs of the bf-109 by many users only lasted as long as it took you to change the page from posting it.

Summary: I just can't see why you want everybody to rebuy the same games from Oleg just for you and your online buddies to get the Russian addons! And at the most 2 or 3 planes, maybe another limited map of Russia! I just read on the site you posted in your first post that, Oleg will not let anything go open architecture except for maybe vehicles or ships, no planes, no maps, FM. That post was from someone who communicates with Oleg. He himself has not even deigned any interest about this subject by the way, even with all the pathetic pleadings from the loyal IL2 fans!! .Give me a break! You must have been one of those who voted Oleg for a God at the Official IL2 site awhile back. :iidea:

[Neil Washbrook]

I think you are missing the point about the DVD. For commercial reasons UBI were/are planning to release a Platinum Pack of FB/AEP/PF just like they released a gold pack of FB/AEP. For commercial reasons UBI are not planning to release the addons that 1C have got the licence for releasing in Russia. The best hope of getting them to release the addons was for them to release them as part of the already planned Platinum DVD. Its not Maddox that is cruelly not allowing the releases to the West it is UBI and their commercial reasons

[KOM.Nausicaa]

You don't get the point Dauntless. I want to support a company, not to have the games twice or triple; I want BOB and I want it to be the best sim ever.

[Helldiver]

I for one, have purchased a copy of Pacific Fighters, believing all the ballyhoo about what was to come. I installed it, played with it for a couple of days and promptly deleted it off my hard drive. It has as much relation to the WWII Pacific War as "Doom" has to do with real life.
Now if you youngsters get some kick out of it playing airplanes, go right ahead. I'm just sorry that I wasted so much money on this piece of fiction. It's a shame that it's one young Russian's impression of what went on during some of the fiercest battles in the history of the U.S. Navy. It's a bloody shame.
Helldiver

[redriver6]

I for one, have purchased a copy of Pacific Fighters, believing all the ballyhoo about what was to come. I installed it, played with it for a couple of days and promptly deleted it off my hard drive. It has as much relation to the WWII Pacific War as "Doom" has to do with real life.
Now if you youngsters get some kick out of it playing airplanes, go right ahead. I'm just sorry that I wasted so much money on this piece of fiction. It's a shame that it's one young Russian's impression of what went on during some of the fiercest battles in the history of the U.S. Navy. It's a bloody shame.
Helldiver

a few points if i may:

1. This is a Forgotten Battles/Pacific Fighters forum...we cover both in here.

2. A little history lesson. Some of the largest bloodiest air battles of WW2 were fought on the Eastern Front and that is Mr. Maddox's primary area of intrest...being Russian and all.

3. I don't think Mr. Maddox was the driving force behind PF..it was Luthier I believe.

4. PF has as much to do with what went on in the Pacific as any other flight sim. It is after all a sim and a game.

5. Everyone has handled themselves well in this thread....until..............now.
If you have a legitimate complaint that is fine but don't come in here and start a flame war because you don't like the fact that a Russian is involved in developing and marketing a computer game about the Pacific theater. I am not an Oleg 'fanboy' but i respect his work and i like the sim. PF has a lot of flaws and is extremely lacking in the ship department but i still enjoy 'playing' it.

6. I guess if being 47 makes me a youngster, great.:costumes:

[HundertzehnGustav]

You don't get the point Dauntless. I want to support a company, not to have the games twice or triple; I want BOB and I want it to be the best sim ever.

and i want BoB too.
but only cause of the things that come after BoB... BoFrance (D520, bloch, etc) and then the other stuff ... Year 2007 and 2008

[KOM.Nausicaa]

This thread was about supporting a company that --yes---is currently the only one on this globe from which you can expect to see a brandnew WW2 airwar combat sim.
The title was "Support Oleg", not "What do you think about PF".

Instead of showing loyalty to this only perpective into the future, some pop in and make it a hate contest about PF. That is a bloody shame.

Someone should lock the thread.

[Bearcat]

I for one, have purchased a copy of Pacific Fighters, believing all the ballyhoo about what was to come. I installed it, played with it for a couple of days and promptly deleted it off my hard drive. It has as much relation to the WWII Pacific War as "Doom" has to do with real life.
Now if you youngsters get some kick out of it playing airplanes, go right ahead. I'm just sorry that I wasted so much money on this piece of fiction. It's a shame that it's one young Russian's impression of what went on during some of the fiercest battles in the history of the U.S. Navy. It's a bloody shame.
Helldiver

While I can understand your frustration with certain aspects of the sim.... It is better if looked at as a 5 CD multifront sim. While the PTO part is somewhat lacking in many rerspects there is enough there IMO to make it fun. It is after all is said and done a PC game and IMO it is regardless to it's faults, still hands down better in most respects and at least as good as anything else on the market in it's genre. The only thing CFS3 has on this sim IMO is the fact that is has some of the absent aircraft.. and a broader map area....... as far as the things that matter most to me like graphics, DMs and FMs..... this series is top dog. I would still support Oleg regardless.... 1C makes a good sim.. and i want to keep the genre alive.. but I will not be buying a Platinum edition if there is no new content.

[Helldiver]

Look, PF has no SB2C Helldiver. What can I say about a sim that completely ignores an airplane that sank more Jap ships than any other. Pages of history were completely ignored...
I rest my case.

Helldiver

[KOM.Nausicaa]

Was that one of the planes that got sapped because of the demands for money from the companies? Just a question.

[HundertzehnGustav]

before, i always respected GRUMMAN.

Damn, and i mean it... DAMN fine planes the whole F series, and the postwar Jets. let us not forget the Tomcat, a beast, sexy, and a class of its own.

that wasnt Olegs or his teams fault.
did Mikoyan want cash to see the Migs included?
Republic?

Fack, i hate the everlasting cash discussions.
(there was a F7F F8F for Cfs2, wasnt there?)

I wish Oleg the best of luck, and all the smartness in the world, knowing that he ll try to supply the virtual seat of the pants pilots, armchair air warriors with as many planes as possible, as long as it makes sense to the team.:)

[Bearcat]

Look, PF has no SB2C Helldiver. What can I say about a sim that completely ignores an airplane that sank more Jap ships than any other. Pages of history were completely ignored...
I rest my case.
Helldiver

Like I said... Im feeling you. IMO the absence of the Avenger and no Yorktown class ships is a glaring omission.. but no showstopper to me. Maybe it's because I came from the days when we had to use Pe-8s to simulate B-17s.. I dont know. I hope that they do get whatever issues with Grumman worked out. I still dont see why the plane is in as AI and not flyable if the issue is with Grumman... but hey. I still havent found what for me and what I like is a better overall WW2 sim..so here I am.

[Dauntless]

a few points if i may:

1. This is a Forgotten Battles/Pacific Fighters forum...we cover both in here.

2. A little history lesson. Some of the largest bloodiest air battles of WW2 were fought on the Eastern Front and that is Mr. Maddox's primary area of intrest...being Russian and all.

3. I don't think Mr. Maddox was the driving force behind PF..it was Luthier I believe.

4. PF has as much to do with what went on in the Pacific as any other flight sim. It is after all a sim and a game.

5. Everyone has handled themselves well in this thread....until..............now.
If you have a legitimate complaint that is fine but don't come in here and start a flame war because you don't like the fact that a Russian is involved in developing and marketing a computer game about the Pacific theater. I am not an Oleg 'fanboy' but i respect his work and i like the sim. PF has a lot of flaws and is extremely lacking in the ship department but i still enjoy 'playing' it.

6. I guess if being 47 makes me a youngster, great.:costumes:

I guess maybe you woke up and finally read this thread, where that you're supposed to be the GOD or whatever makes sure this thread doesn't go over the limit to bashing someone, like you did Helldiver. I really liked your response to Helldiver and I guess if you like to be rude to an old guy that's your problem, and I would not like to have been your father. Because that's the answer I would assume you would have stated to him. There was alot of others here that have put PF down but I guess you weren't alert or reading enough to put your boot down earlier. I think that the old saying that "total power corrupts" would apply to yourself. And if you want to be a smart ass, do it to yourself. I guess that even though you're 47 years old, that still hasn't made you wise enough to be a man yet or make you one, or to learn how to respect your elders, but apparently you never learned that as a child. :greenf:

[Neil Washbrook]

Shakes head, finishes popcorn and decides not to bother with this thread or forum again

[HundertzehnGustav]

Shakes head, finishes popcorn and decides not to bother with this thread or forum again

ah ah Neil, that was a bit hard on us eh yo.... :eek::confused::crybaby:

with this thread.. i agree.
with this forum... i dont.

SOME good and reasonable folks here after all....

[HundertzehnGustav]

I guess that even though you're 47 years old, that still hasn't made you wise enough to be a man yet or make you one, or to learn how to respect your elders, but apparently you never learned that as a child.

*whispers*
dont insult a mod or a staff member, son.
you agreed to that when you signed up here, buddy.
show the good example....
and chill out.:)

and age... age dont count a thing on the net, at least not so much...
behaviour counts.

[Canelo_Kid]

I think everyone has had their say and this thread is going nowhere!

Just a reminder, "Let Being Helpful Be More Important Than Being Right!"

Guys debate yes, attack and argue no!

SOH supports several different simulators and think they are all worth supporting. We hate see arguements which one is better, or the other one sucks! All the simulators have their loyal following and their own merrit.