Martin Baltimore V colors

[jinx]

I downloaded and flew the Allen update of the Baltimore.

Very nice, but in my view the paint scheme is wrong.

First and foremost, the dark earth and midstone shades are wrong--too red for the first, too bight for the midstone. In fact the 2 colors were quite close (see image) and in many black and white photos the Baltimores appear as if they have one top shade all over because of the closeness of the two basic desert camo hues for the overs.

Second, the painter has chosen a scheme without any RAF codes, when many a/c had them and some even had mission marks on the nose side and code letter repeated there.

Another problem of the model is that the model is too angular in parts (the top of the fuselage and the stab tips are the most glaring mistakes and the nacelles have angles also), but the real a/c was smoothly rounded everywhere. See profile attached. Ideally, this calls for someone to make a new model from scratch and perhaps I can persuade my friend Manuele Villa to do one for fs9 which we could then convert to cfs2.

If I find time I may attempt a repaint. The net is full of images and model kit makers have some too and decal manutacturers also.

[Rami]

Jinx,

I have a few things to point out here.

First, Allen updated the aircraft, and did a lot of very positive things. So let's thank him properly.

Second, Allen even stated that he was uploading the GMAX source files to SOH, so that if possible, work can be done on cockpit and flap animations, as well as perhaps some smoothing of the original model. Considering the state of the original model, Allen did a nice job.

Third...yes, the paint job is sub-par, but again, Allen's job was to update the model. If you don't like the paint scheme, you have a couple of options. You can find a painting program and do the work yourself, and then share your creations with the rest of us. (Or not) Second, you can make nice with one of our repainters and see if they'd be willing to labor on your behalf to give you a paint scheme more to your liking.

Your enthusiasm for CFS2 is obvious...and we like enthusiasm. Just learn to be more positive. As my dad used to say...you catch a lot more files with honey than you do with vinegar.

[jinx]

Of course Allen is be greatly thanked for the update.

That goes without saying for me, and I never accused Allen of anything.

I know the model is not his work.

In any case, I apologize if I did not sound positive but I did not expect such a reaction as you had from anyone.

I am a kit modeller basically and I immediately spot flaws in the color shades, by long training and habit.
And it does not hurt to point such things out--color shade flaws, I mean.

To my mind, it is constructive criticism and it may incite someone to improve whatever faulty aspect can be iimproved. After all, we have people here who, as a matter of usual routine in their creative activities, improve all sorts of things ranging from dp files to repaints, to panels, to air files, to sound files, to Readme text files, etc...etc...

Wait till you see my Bombay repaint, perhaps tonight, 7 hours from now.

As for the Baltimore colors, I will do the repaint myself soon, I hope, and it may be ready in a week or two, I do not know how complex it will turn out to be yet...I must start it first.

Thanks for the feedback,

Nick

[kdriver]

Actually they were painted like that in the US factory. Here's a couple of shots taken in the US before export to North Africa.

Have you seen the Baltimore by Giuli which BraveHeart is working on? http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?77678-For-Allen-Baltimore-testing-results

[jinx]

:salute:kdriver,

Thanks for your feedback and the pictures.

But even in these photos that you uploaded here the colors are not the same as the addon's I referred to. They look fresh alrght, and probably these a/c were freshly painted, but in the desert a/c colors faded rapidly. An example of that is the USAAF color named Olive Drab. which, starting out as a green, faded to a brown after a few months in the desert sun or in Italy.

Anyone who has made plastic kits seriously and has read Ian Huntley's articles in the old Scale Aircraft Modelling magazines will testify to that.

I have won many 1st prizes in our national Plastic models competitions and have even served as a judge some years and have studied the matter at length.
If you search the net for plastic kit constructions of Baltimore kits, you will see the more realistic shades I am talking about.

I downloaded all I could from the links you gave here and will try them out. Meanwhile, I tried the fs2002-fs2000 Baltimore and that is in the European tactical RAF scheme of dark earth and dark green, and not in the desert scheme. It also suffers from outline and model shape inaccuracies.

Thank you again.:jump::jump:

[kdriver]

Jinx,

Did you see the .rar file further down the page? There are three beta versions - Marks II, III and V, all in desert colours, as well as a SAAF Mk V and a black Mk V.

You're right about the fading. My dad was in the RAAF at Milne Bay, New Guinea, and when I look at his old photos of various aircraft, they look pretty weather beaten.

Just for interest, there were two RAAF Baltimore squadrons, 454 and 459, both based in the Med. There are two books telling the histories of both squadrons - "Alamein to the Alps" for 454 Squadron and "Desert Scorpions" for 459 Squadron.

By coincidence two of my friends' fathers were Baltimore pilots, one in each RAAF squadron. I've talked at length to Keith, the 459 pilot's interesting stories about his sorties in the Baltimore. After flying a Lockheed Hudson, it was like getting into a sportscar. He said it was a bit of a handful at takeoff with a pronounced swing due to powerful engines.

Cheers,

Kevin

[jinx]

:salute:kdriver,

I saw those files and downloaded them and will fly them soon.

I am glad your dad confirms what I said--these things are well known facts to many, though not to all.

Thanks for the titles of the books. Are you Australian?

South Africans were the best fighting soldiers in the desert, as shock troops, with Australians 2nd as solidifying troops that held the area once the South Afircans had taken from the enemy. Alan Moorehead, Australian, the great historian, states that in his book on the desert war.

Thanks again.
:jump:

[Rami]

Of course Allen is be greatly thanked for the update.

That goes without saying for me, and I never accused Allen of anything.

I know the model is not his work.

In any case, I apologize if I did not sound positive but I did not expect such a reaction as you had from anyone.

I am a kit modeller basically and I immediately spot flaws in the color shades, by long training and habit.
And it does not hurt to point such things out--color shade flaws, I mean.

To my mind, it is constructive criticism and it may incite someone to improve whatever faulty aspect can be iimproved. After all, we have people here who, as a matter of usual routine in their creative activities, improve all sorts of things ranging from dp files to repaints, to panels, to air files, to sound files, to Readme text files, etc...etc...

Wait till you see my Bombay repaint, perhaps tonight, 7 hours from now.

As for the Baltimore colors, I will do the repaint myself soon, I hope, and it may be ready in a week or two, I do not know how complex it will turn out to be yet...I must start it first.

Thanks for the feedback,

Nick

Nick,

It's not content, it's tone. It's how the words come across. And thanks for clarifying! :salute:

[kdriver]

:salute:
Are you Australian?:jump:

Yes Nick, I'm Australian living in sunny Sydney, and like many Australians have enjoyed visiting Greece a number of times.

As for the Martin Baltimore, now that we have a couple of aircraft and a few skins with paint in various states of wear and tear, I hope a few missions might come our way in the near future.

Kevin :australia:

[gaucho_59]

Of course Allen is be greatly thanked for the update.

That goes without saying for me, and I never accused Allen of anything.

I know the model is not his work.

In any case, I apologize if I did not sound positive but I did not expect such a reaction as you had from anyone.

I am a kit modeller basically and I immediately spot flaws in the color shades, by long training and habit.
And it does not hurt to point such things out--color shade flaws, I mean.

To my mind, it is constructive criticism and it may incite someone to improve whatever faulty aspect can be iimproved. After all, we have people here who, as a matter of usual routine in their creative activities, improve all sorts of things ranging from dp files to repaints, to panels, to air files, to sound files, to Readme text files, etc...etc...

Wait till you see my Bombay repaint, perhaps tonight, 7 hours from now.




As for the Baltimore colors, I will do the repaint myself soon, I hope, and it may be ready in a week or two, I do not know how complex it will turn out to be yet...I must start it first.

Thanks for the feedback,

Nick

Back when I was a young pup (and used to belong to IPMS) I was equally pedantic about RLM color chips, etc.
Then in 1969, I spent a nice one year vacation on the then Republic of Viet Nam courtesy and commission appointment of President LBJ...
There I saw more aircraft than you can count with the fingers and toes... of a battalion... NOT TWO OF THEM... had the same color shades... and I mean...
the camouflage patterns and all... were dissimilar... I discovered (how naïve can one be) that UV radiation, heat, rain, condensation, etc. and myriad other
phenomena can change factory finish colors... Even natural metal changes... I got a ride to visit my parents in Uruguay from Gen. Maxwell, then
commander of Howard AFB in Panama just before I went to war... and you should have seen his personal C-118... gleaming like the chrome on a
1957 Buick! While waiting for my ride, his crew chief showed me around the aircraft... I was astounded by the gleaming finish... and he confided in
this super-green Captain that he had orders to cannibalize any C-118 passing through Howard for any parts that where newer or shinier than the
Old Man's mount... Similar aircraft in Viet Nam, Germany, etc. later seen in my military career were more often than not very oxidized and dull... uneven shine panels, etc.
So you see... rivet counters out there... dwelling on the precise color saturation or shade is purely a pedantic and... in my modest opinion... futile endeavor...
In other words...we must extract our cranial vaults from our rectal receptacles... and stop this type of "nit picking"...

[jinx]

Gaucho,,

What you say is true.

I have been on American carrier decks many times and the varations there were many--not one a/c was the same as the other--the greys weathered differently and repainted patches added to the multitude of variations. Same thing on museum a/c I have seen everywhere.

But IPMS habits die hard, as you can imagine.
And one--perhaps mistaken--thinks he can be smart.
I kind of think that under this all lies a desire to be creative and do something new, with the repaint, or anything else.

Thanks for the valuable feedback.


Nick