Martin Mars Philippine being retired

[tommieboy]

bummer........

Coulson Flying Tankers is retiring one of their two "Mighty" Martin Mars water tankers. That will just leave just one flyable Martin Mars left in the world. Well actually two; we still have the Virtavia's Martin Mars for FSX.....:cool:

I was just working on tweaking my fictitious Martin Mars Barrier Reef Airways repaint, when I came across the following videos on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ogRjefoK-U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7zNVi_N1rA&NR=1&feature=endscreen

That's the Virtavia Martin Mars in my Avatar on the left.

Tommy

[tommieboy]

I've been busy adding a waterline to the hull and floats....and couple more patch panels to make it look a little more beat-up.......:blind:

I like it so far.....:cool:

Tommy

http://home.roadrunner.com/~tommieboy/MM_101.jpg

http://home.roadrunner.com/~tommieboy/MM_102.jpg

[delta_lima]

That's sad news (the retirement, not the repaint! :icon_lol:)

When they were based in Port Alberni, just across the water from me, I'd always stop at Sproat Lake to see if there were around, on my drive out to camping in Tofino. I did get a chance to see one do fly&drop demo during the 2010 Olympics in my home city of Vancouver. How stupid do you have to be to go to a free airshow literally right outside your office - and forget both your camera and your smartphone? That was the case with me, alas, as I have no pics of it that day - but it indeed did fly here - as shown from these pics taken by others ...

http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4065/4451381720_954bb864d7_z.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v46/doleted/2010/MartinMarsVancouver2010a.jpg

the theoretical understanding of dimensions and size did nothing (at least for me) to prepare me for what seeing it in real life was like - the size was really something to behold. It was a lifetime memory for sure - not one I'll likely see again ...

DL

[stansdds]

Sad news, I guess time eventually catches up with everything. In the case of aircraft, metal fatigue, lack of spare parts, and the eventual elimination of 100LL AvGas is taking its toll.

[airattackimages]

I had the pleasure of being 50 feet away from Hawaii Mars on some fires. She's a beast.

If I remember correctly, Philippine was damaged by vandals this past year also.

Coulson has a recently acquired C-130 that they want to concentrate on. It's currently down here at KSBD for tank work and drop testing. We are hoping to see her in action this fire season, provided the USFS signs off on it.

[FSX68]

I had the pleasure of being 50 feet away from Hawaii Mars on some fires. She's a beast.

If I remember correctly, Philippine was damaged by vandals this past year also.

Coulson has a recently acquired C-130 that they want to concentrate on. It's currently down here at KSBD for tank work and drop testing. We are hoping to see her in action this fire season, provided the USFS signs off on it.

Ahh... your at the San Bernardino Airport ("San Berdoo"as I use to call it back in the day.) :icon_lol:

[Holger Sandmann]

Hi guys,

last week while returning from a Ucluelet/Tofino trip I stopped at the Martin Mars base. The gate was closed and I couldn't see anyone around so I just took a quick picture through the fence: http://www.flickr.com/photos/hsandman/8680607581/in/set-72157633335897513

Looks like Hawaii Mars is being readied for the season while Philippine Mars still sits behind it.

Cheers, Holger

[Daveroo]

Hi guys,

last week while returning from a Ucluelet/Tofino trip I stopped at the Martin Mars base. The gate was closed and I couldn't see anyone around so I just took a quick picture through the fence: http://www.flickr.com/photos/hsandman/8680607581/in/set-72157633335897513

Looks like Hawaii Mars is being readied for the season while Philippine Mars still sits behind it.

Cheers, Holger

thats a great photo..dont often see the support rigs.

[Daveroo]

I've been busy adding a waterline to the hull and floats....and couple more patch panels to make it look a little more beat-up.......:blind:

I like it so far.....:cool:

Tommy

http://home.roadrunner.com/~tommieboy/MM_101.jpg

http://home.roadrunner.com/~tommieboy/MM_102.jpg

thats cool...i have this in my "spares hanger" it never worked on my pc correctly...the plane i mean...but great livery

[Daveroo]

bummer........

Coulson Flying Tankers is retiring one of their two "Mighty" Martin Mars water tankers. That will just leave just one flyable Martin Mars left in the world. Well actually two; we still have the Virtavia's Martin Mars for FSX.....:cool:

I was just working on tweaking my fictitious Martin Mars Barrier Reef Airways repaint, when I came across the following videos on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ogRjefoK-U

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7zNVi_N1rA&NR=1&feature=endscreen

That's the Virtavia Martin Mars in my Avatar on the left.

Tommy

i read about tis sometime ago,plus there was a documentary on smithsonian channel HD on clouson tanker (the Hawaiian ) flying the mexico fires from 2010 i believe it was....flew out of a lake in texas..i think...lol..

anyway..the phillipene has sat unused so long,i feel this is a positive new lease on life..it will now be on display for future generations in FL.....the Hawaii does and extremely dangerous job,and i hate myself for saying this, she could go in at anytime,one canyon thats a little two short,with a wind shift and no exit...bang...shes gone...aireal fire fighting is a game..its hard ,tough ,deadly work..and a historic aircraft like that shouldnt be used in my eyes..yes she is large and drop alot of water..but thats just the problem..like evergreens 747..too large,ever in my useless opinion tanker tens aircraft 910,and 911 are too big...they cant get into the little canyons and draws where they are truley needed....leave it to the S2Ts and 802's..though i dont care for the idea of the SEAT's,i cant understand their usefullness in certin situations...

[tommieboy]

......i hate myself for saying this, she could go in at anytime, one canyon that's a little two short,with a wind shift and no exit...bang...shes gone...aerial fire fighting is a game..its hard ,tough ,deadly work..and a historic aircraft like that shouldn't be used in my eyes......

From Wikipedia:
The Marianas Mars crashed near Northwest Bay, British Columbia on 23 June 1961 during firefighting operations; all four crew members were lost.


......yes she is large and drops a lot of water.....

From Wikipedia:
The scoops allowed 30 tons of water to be taken on board in 22 seconds.

From Wikipedia:
The aircraft can carry 7,200 U.S. gallons (27,276 litres) of water and each drop can cover an area of up to 4 acres (1.6 hectares). The aircraft can also carry up to 600 U.S. gallons (2,270 litres) of foam concentrate for gelling the load drop.

[tommieboy]

thats cool...i have this in my "spares hanger" it never worked on my pc correctly...the plane i mean...but great livery

That's pretty sad......was there a specific item that didn't work correctly?

Tommy

[tommieboy]

Sad news, I guess time eventually catches up with everything. In the case of aircraft, metal fatigue, lack of spare parts, and the eventual elimination of 100LL AvGas is taking its toll.

I think in this case it was a lack of a mission that made if financially infeasible to keep on-site. I'm sure if the forest service really wanted this bird available for their use too, it would still be in ship-shape condition and flying for years to come. Still, I think in the long run, it's better to have at least one of them in a museum for prosperity sake. I just worry about the National Navy Aviation Museum's close proximity to the Gulf Coast with no way of moving these aircraft out of the path of a hurricane or hurricane surge. I think it would have fared better in the long run being sent to the Pima Air & Space Museum in Arizona. But I guess it all came down to wheeling and dealing for some give-mees (sp?) in exchange for this aircraft.

Tommy

[ThinkingManNeil]

What a magnificent beast the Mars is and was. I've never seen her in person, but I remember seeing a program on TVO some years ago and there was a sequence where she took off from Sproat Lake and kept low so as to fly right over a camera crew that was anchored in a rubber Zodiac boat. This huge mountain of an aircraft just kept coming and coming, then finally roared overhead at about fifty feet, shaking the world with the noise that only four Wright R-3350's can make...

Damn!

N.

[tommieboy]

What a magnificent beast the Mars is and was. I've never seen her in person, but I remember seeing a program on TVO some years ago and there was a sequence where she took off from Sproat Lake and kept low so as to fly right over a camera crew that was anchored in a rubber Zodiac boat. This huge mountain of an aircraft just kept coming and coming, then finally roared overhead at about fifty feet, shaking the world with the noise that only four Wright R-3350's can make...

Damn!

N.

Here's lower than 50 feet.....:cool:

http://www.rapp.org/archives/2007/11/martin_mars/

click on the photos for a larger image...

Tommy

[Bomber_12th]

I'm expecting that there will be some absolutely stunning air-to-air images of the 'Philippine Mars' in its Navy blue paint, from when it takes the flight to Pensacola. The plan, at least at one time, was to time the aircraft's arival with this year's Pensacola air show, happening in July. I believe the Pensacola air show was said to be canceled for a while, since the Blue Angels weren't going to be able to be part of it, but it was just reported in the last few days that the air show will be continuing on despite that - so I guess it waits to be seen if that plan continues or not. I, personally (being selfish here), would love to see it make a stop at this year's Oshkosh air show, and then continue onto Pensacola - perhaps basing the aircraft out in Lake Winnebago for the week (like Kermit Weeks did with his Sunderland at one of the Oshkosh shows, after he brought it over from England) - I'd imagine it would be a big draw for the show.

I don't believe it was mentioned in the videos, but it has been reported that the plan is that Coulson will be receiving a large C-130 spares package in the trade for the 'Philippine Mars' to the Naval Air Museum, for use with their C-130 that they operate.

Some images of the past to show a 'Mars' in the colors that the 'Philippine Mars' is being painted in.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y282/Bomber_12th/AT-6/Mars_zps57f96fd1.jpg:original (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/Bomber_12th/media/AT-6/Mars_zps57f96fd1.jpg.html)

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y282/Bomber_12th/Mars-2_zps5610b8c5.jpg:original (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/Bomber_12th/media/Mars-2_zps5610b8c5.jpg.html)

[Daveroo]

regarding the colston tanker,these incidents happened sometime after the year 2000,i was sitting in my rv listening to my scanner and i heard some on the air guard talking about the hawaii mars heading up the american river from Folsom lake towards Auburn,at the time i looked out my window and there it was over the trees,,i couldnt hear it at that point as it was directly oppisit me and about a quarter mile east,but as it got beyond my view..quickly..i could hear it..but even as i went to my large back window.i still could no longer see it.we gots lots of trees.

then a few years later,there was a fire in El dorado county,across the river from me,in Placer county,myself and several other people were rubber neckin at the old auburn dam overlook ,the calfire S2Ts were puttin on a great show,along with the AU P3's,but then i heard the pilot of AA230 tell the tankers on air guard that they were having a visitor,and "he" was just making a friendly flyby,only thing was....the visitor was going to be "transiting the area at a low level"...so a few minutes pass and we hear (again we were listening to my scanner) we hear Hoser in T-89 say...oh my goodness..whats he doing down there?..so we all were lonking around..prolly about 12 people..and someone yells HOLYCRAP!! and is pointing down river and below the ridgetop when we see the Hawaiian mars BELOW the canyon ridge tops coming up canyon,it litterally passed below us.and you all know how large that airplane is.may not sound like all that big of a deal..but this canyon is deep.. fairly narrow..and has nasty winds,plus up-canyon about a mile or so is a large power cable just below the top of the canyon,and the forresthill bridge...so he needed to climb..

the folks were clapping...thing is...i hadnt bought a digital camera yet and had no cellphone...so no pics....just a point of no intrest to me...ive owned one camera in my life..a kodak camera like the poleroid camera..where you take the pic and the photo comes out the bottom..and developes...only thing was..i had to send it to kodak..they paid me 75 bucks..but they got sued and lost and had to buy back all the cameras sold...lol..this photo is somewhat deciving..but its from the net and not mine.
85437

[TimeLapse]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Go3Dr_LUQ_o

[TimeLapse]

Philippine Mars US Navy Museum Restoration


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3ICQg1CwqU

[DennyA]

Sadly, it looks like this might be the last season for the Hawaii Mars up there as well. BC apparently (and illogically) has no faith in the plane (http://www.timescolonist.com/last-summer-for-port-alberni-mars-water-bomber-as-province-cuts-contract-1.175864) and has cut the firefighting contract. :(

I was lucky enough to see both planes on a family trip to Ucluelet last year. Had no idea they were even up there... I was just driving down the road and saw a road sign that said "Mars Flying Boat Base - Next Left." So I of course informed the family I was taking the next left!

Amazing to see them in person. Got pics of them restoring the Philippine Mars, but didn't know it was museum-bound at the time.

Alas, we couldn't do the tour of the plane because some morons had decided to take a walk on the horizontal stabilizer the night before and put their foot through it. Which wasn't determined until they noticed the plane was responding oddly in-flight. Luckily the results weren't more severe; according to the news article (http://www.albernivalleynews.com/news/165337196.html), they might have been if the plane had taken on a load of water.

http://i.imgur.com/4btl2dz.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/lcIw7Hb.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/BO6zPKD.jpg


http://i.imgur.com/bx25E97.jpg

[tommieboy]

Sadly, it looks like this might be the last season for the Hawaii Mars up there as well.......

Well that's a total bummer to hear.......:blind:

Seems like the Virtavia Martin Mars Coulson Tanker repaints are the only ones that will be flying in the future.

Tommy

[DennyA]

More recent reporting... Contract isn't going to be renewed. (http://www.avtimes.net/bomber-a-heroic-giant-1.621281) Apparently Canada wants four smaller $5,000/day tankers instead of the single $7,500/day tanker. Governments...

Why not get two $5K/day tankers and keep the Mars flying too? You'd get the backup of multiple planes, pay less, and still have the Mars's unique capability to drop an enormous load of water.

[tommieboy]

More recent reporting... Contract isn't going to be renewed. (http://www.avtimes.net/bomber-a-heroic-giant-1.621281) Apparently Canada wants four smaller $5,000/day tankers instead of the single $7,500/day tanker. Governments...

Why not get two $5K/day tankers and keep the Mars flying too? You'd get the backup of multiple planes, pay less, and still have the Mars's unique capability to drop an enormous load of water.

Thanks for the update!

Tommy

[delta_lima]

More recent reporting... Contract isn't going to be renewed. (http://www.avtimes.net/bomber-a-heroic-giant-1.621281) Apparently Canada wants four smaller $5,000/day tankers instead of the single $7,500/day tanker. Governments...

Why not get two $5K/day tankers and keep the Mars flying too? You'd get the backup of multiple planes, pay less, and still have the Mars's unique capability to drop an enormous load of water.


Well, what possibly could the Ministry of Forests know about the matter, inasmuch as they've only been managing forests for a century, and involved in aerial forest fire control for half of that ....

I love the Mars as much as the next person. Would I like to see them flying? Yes. Are they the optimal choice for today's fire fighting? I'll readily agree I'm not the expert. But it certainly doesn't strike me as unreasonable that 4 newer, albeit smaller capacity aircraft gives more flexible options. In a year, we have many hundreds (into the thousands) of forest fires http://bcwildfire.ca/History/average.htm. So it apart from the concern of the really big fire scenario pointed out by the pilot, where a giant aircraft may have more effect - sheer numbers dictate a spreading of resources that favours numbers.

Furthermore, if you look at where the fires typically occur in BC, the majority centers around south/central. Compounded by those being areas with proportionately more populations means Conair's locale can give far faster response time.

Finally, I'm sure pinning the criticality of availability on a 60 year old aircraft brings in a measure of risk - versus aircraft whose parts supply, repair / downtime profiles are likely better. If a Mars goes offline, the $5000 a day cost differential is moot, if you've got major fires like the ones that hit Kelowna a few years back.

Just saying that we can't let our love of these venerable aircraft cloud our judgement to the point that we're presuming that the experts are wrong. Sometimes they are - but it comes down to more than a reductive assessment of two numbers ...

DL