'NASCAR Gets Heavy Handed With Penske'

[Panther_99FS]

One thing about Roger Penske....
Since he's been in racing (all forms), he's always pushed the envelope of ingenuity.....
-> http://nascar.speedtv.com/article/cup-brad-keselowski-docked-25-points-paul-wolfe-suspended-6-races

[wombat666]

But Ed, according to EasyEd NASCAR is pure of heart and unblemished, unlike the Formula 1 'Sewer'!!
:icon_eek:
As usual the ruling body have gone completely feral.
Bloody Muppets!!!!

[stansdds]

I think it was last year that the 48 team used body panels that were just outside of NASCAR's specifications and they received a similar penalty. In the Penske case, evidently the decision to use an illegal modification covered both teams, indicates to me that the decision came from a source higher up the chain than just the crew chief.

[Terry]

Remember last year when Brad said Penske racing was pure and stayed clear of the gray areas and Hendrick was cheating? You gotta love it, rather like a soap opera.:isadizzy:

They hammered Hornaday pretty good too. His run at the title is all but over.

And you have Mikey's people playing with trick shocks. Their not even going to argue the fine.

[Panther_99FS]

Remember last year when Brad said Penske racing was pure and stayed clear of the gray areas

Brad must not have followed Penske in Can-Am and Champ/IndyCars then.....:mixedsmi:

That being said,
Apparently Roger said something of the following:


Did you read Roger Penske's interview in Car and Driver? He stated NASCAR was a more open series and more of an engineering challenge than IndyCar. He said IndyCar is basically a spec series.

--> http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/article/indycar-millers-mailbag-43/

No disagreement from me here - too many rule changes have turned IndyCar into a spec series....Although good to see more than one engine manufacturer again...

[Terry]

It seems that all sports have one thing in common. The longer they exist the more rules they accumulate until they are so bogged down with BS that they become boring. :a1451:

[Panther_99FS]

"The King" thinks somebody turned the Penske team in...
http://nascar.speedtv.com/article/cup-petty-thinks-penske-was-turned-in/

I'll add a speculative (no evidence) comment for drama:
If someone did turn them in - wouldn't it be interesting if it was the #48 team for "payback" to the comments made last year by Brad
about them cheating...

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

Memo to Roger and Brad. In a Dodge you don't need to cheat.

-Ed-

A footnote: Apparently NASCAR may be a bit sympathetic to their appeal but I think it will be about the severity of the penalty not the infraction. Shoulda stayed with Dodge.

[Panther_99FS]

What happened to the vaunted Ford advantage :ques:

That being said, I think the Roush camp is in a bit of disarray without a firm leader like Penske has in Keselowski - and it shows in the first few races this season.

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

Other than perhaps Stewart chevy has been relatively speaking weak on the 1.5 mile tracks for a few years. Toyota and Ford are usually better. Today Kahne and Johnson managed to get their cars to the front but note the advantage shifted from car to car depending on cloud cover (does F1 worry about cloud cover versus sun?) and tire wear. I have thought that generally speaking toyota has the strongest cars but the toyota teams are not as good at getting them ready for and adjusting for track conditions at races as chevy tends to be. Ford has fallen off a bit and I think their teams in general are a bit weaker. On any given day any manufacturer can win.

With respect to leadership all I do is look back at the posts at this site where I was about the only person saying how good Brad K was/is while every body else bad-mouthed Brad sayin Carl is the man.

In my opinion the best drivers in NASCAR in no particular order are Johnson, Keselowski, Logano and Kahne although I have to put 5 time and Brad a little ahead of the others.

-Ed-

[wombat666]

Hey All,

Memo to Roger and Brad. In a Dodge you don't need to cheat.
-Ed-
A footnote: Apparently NASCAR may be a bit sympathetic to their appeal but I think it will be about the severity of the penalty not the infraction. Shoulda stayed with Dodge.

Because they (Dodge) come with built in 'cheats' Ed???????
:icon_eek:

[Panther_99FS]

With respect to leadership all I do is look back at the posts at this site where I was about the only person saying how good Brad K was/is while every body else bad-mouthed Brad sayin Carl is the man.

In my opinion the best drivers in NASCAR in no particular order are Johnson, Keselowski, Logano and Kahne although I have to put 5 time and Brad a little ahead of the others.

-Ed-

The thing to remember here is that one doesn't necessarily have to like a drive to admit that he/she is fast. Case in point is that I don't like Michael Schumacher - however, I readily admit to him being one of the fastest F1 drivers in all time. And it's human nature to back those drivers that we like. That being said...

- I used to like Brad when he was around Dale Jr.....
- I've always like Kahne...
- Generally speaking, I'm agnostic towards Johnson & Logano...
Footnote: I've got to give Kudos to Gordon for bringing in Johnson and to paraphrase from a tele clip this weekend; "....knowing about Kyle Larson for a along time...."

And now back to the current champion Keselowski...

-IMHO, the jury is still out on whether or not Brad will be a champion like Johnson, Kulwicki, Labonte Brothers, Gordon......Or will Brad be champion like Stewart, Kurt Busch, Wallace...

And now back to Roush....

- Carl hasn't been the same since he lost to Stewart
- Roush seems to have difficulties with making more than one team fast (unlike Hendrick & perhaps RCR)

Then there's Kenseth...

- Although it's too early to tell, it *appears* that he's a Joe Gibbs type of driver a la' Bobby Labonte...

[eddie]

If you think they were hard on Penske, look what just happened to Kenseth and JGR!!

http://msn.foxsports.com/nascar/story/nascar-inspection-joe-gibbs-racing-matt-kenseth-engine-042413

[Panther_99FS]

If you think they were hard on Penske, look what just happened to Kenseth and JGR!!

http://msn.foxsports.com/nascar/story/nascar-inspection-joe-gibbs-racing-matt-kenseth-engine-042413

Yep I saw that!

[Daveroo]

one rod not being to spec weight?....isnt that what it was?.....wow....danged cheaters......

i was one of those that touted carl back when..and i still pull for carl...but there is a problem there....i have no idea what it is...but he is just flat....but when he and brad were going at it,brad was a little pr.....nm...but ya notice that when carl didnt back down brad seemed to have learned a lesson?....im sure ill be told i was wrong...but seems i allways am..or just ignored...

and to whos the best?..they allways say theres 43 of the best...i dont think so...id say at best maybe 30-35 of them are the best of the best..and i think its true that any of those talked about above can win on any given week..cheating,pushing the rules..or not..

[stansdds]

This is NASCAR, if they find one little thing, they will nail you. Personally, I can't see how having one out of eight connecting rods being slightly underweight is going to be an advantage. Having one rod underweight likely means having to add weight to the crankshaft in order to balance the rotating assembly. But, NASCAR rules are rules and shall not be violated, either intentionally or accidentally. I think this is a reflection on the number 20 team's engine shop. Bet they will start weighing all of the rods and not depend upon Toyota TRD to do it for them.

[Terry]

This is NASCAR, if they find one little thing, they will nail you. Personally, I can't see how having one out of eight connecting rods being slightly underweight is going to be an advantage. Having one rod underweight likely means having to add weight to the crankshaft in order to balance the rotating assembly. But, NASCAR rules are rules and shall not be violated, either intentionally or accidentally. I think this is a reflection on the number 20 team's engine shop. Bet they will start weighing all of the rods and not depend upon Toyota TRD to do it for them.


JGR doesn't open the bottom end. According to TRD it's shipped sealed and ready to run. The rods are made by a TRD contract vendor, which is the screw up here. It seems the TRD engine builders trusted their rod vendor by not weighing every part.

NASCAR knows all this, it does not seem right to come down so hard on JGR when NASCAR knows they had nothing to do with it. A change in policy is in order.

[Daveroo]

the change should be for JGR to have the engine shop take the engines down when the get them and check them...or get rid of the currant program and and go back to letting guys who know how to build race winning engines,like Allen Mispley build the race engines...

the TRD sealed engines are a stupid idea..and this proves it...they are assembled by people who work in a place who really dont care whats happening..yes this is a personal opinion,but ill bet bottom dollar im right..

[Terry]

the TRD sealed engines are a stupid idea..and this proves it...they are assembled by people who work in a place who really dont care whats happening..yes this is a personal opinion,but ill bet bottom dollar im right..[/QUOTE]


I can't argue with that. Keep everything possible in house where you can control the QC.

[stansdds]

the change should be for JGR to have the engine shop take the engines down when the get them and check them...or get rid of the currant program and and go back to letting guys who know how to build race winning engines,like Allen Mispley build the race engines...

the TRD sealed engines are a stupid idea..and this proves it...they are assembled by people who work in a place who really dont care whats happening..yes this is a personal opinion,but ill bet bottom dollar im right..

Well said! :applause:

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

Lets cut right to the chase!

Since the dawn of NASCAR bout 60 years ago...

Manufacturer Championship winners (totals)


<tbody>
Manufacturer
Total Wins


Buick
2


Chevrolet
36


Dodge
2


Ford
15


Hudson
3


Oldsmobile
1


Plymouth
1


Pontiac
1

</tbody>


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnClLZbNh6I

And for trucks...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8nTXv0WKVEU

Exactly what kind of car do you think the Frances have always favored?

-Ed-

[stansdds]

True, GM, specifically Chevrolet, is the whiner in NASCAR and it does seem that when Chevy whines about no longer winning, NASCAR issues new rules.

[wombat666]

Figures can be deceiving, however, in this case let us not overlook the fact that Chevrolet signed on to the 'We will not race' manufacturers agreement decades ago and continued development as well as supplying NASCAR teams via the back door.
I know that was a long time ago but it shows how GM valued their racing 'Publicity' and it is hard to believe that Bill France knew nothing of this matter.
And of course, when Chrysler introduced their 'Hemi' and Ralph Moody approached a Chrysler Dealer they knew nothing ..................... :icon_eek:
NASCAR is only interested in their own financial gain and will do whatever is needed to keep the Manufacturers in the game.

[Panther_99FS]

True, GM, specifically Chevrolet, is the whiner in NASCAR and it does seem that when Chevy whines about no longer winning, NASCAR issues new rules.

:icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol:

[Daveroo]

are you guys saying you believe that its all a conspierisacy (close?) ? and that nascar has made rules to make penski ,roush,gibbs etall get caught cheating?just because they dont run GM products?...

did any of you hear Kenny wallace call out dale earndarth,oh yes he did..oh the daring of the boy..and darrel waltrip and even richard petty,saying they all flat out cheated in the past...not pushed the envolope...CHEATED....the look on larry Macs face was priceless..cant wait to see if ole DW says anything about it during the race!!!!....:applause:

BTW i didnt hear him say anything about rusty...and you KNOW he did it too...

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

They all push the envelope - that is just how racing is and should be.

Look at the record Hudson has more championships than dodge - course if you argue plymouth is dodge since they are all mopar then they tie.

The point is the Frances DO NOT like surprises - they didn't like the hemi, they didn't like the wing, even recently they didn't like the dodge engine so they changed the rules to put dodge at a disadvantage because of weight distribution.

Now Toyota needs to learn the lesson - France family vs the whole Toyota Corporation - well duh France wins.

Chevy has never blatantly and I mean blatantly pushed the envelope - the France family likes that. Because racing - ALL RACING - is about entertainment NOT innovation. F1 get the message although in reality they already actually have and will continue to move that way.

NO racing series on earth celebrates the innovation of mankind. We all sing kumbayeh together and have a juice box afterwards.

-Ed-

[Panther_99FS]

Hey All,

They all push the envelope - that is just how racing is and should be.

Look at the record Hudson has more championships than dodge - course if you argue plymouth is dodge since they are all mopar then they tie.

The point is the Frances DO NOT like surprises - they didn't like the hemi, they didn't like the wing, even recently they didn't like the dodge engine so they changed the rules to put dodge at a disadvantage because of weight distribution.

Now Toyota needs to learn the lesson - France family vs the whole Toyota Corporation - well duh France wins.

Chevy has never blatantly and I mean blatantly pushed the envelope - the France family likes that. Because racing - ALL RACING - is about entertainment NOT innovation. F1 get the message although in reality they already actually have and will continue to move that way.

NO racing series on earth celebrates the innovation of mankind. We all sing kumbayeh together and have a juice box afterwards.

-Ed-

LoL I can always count on you to throw in a jab at F1 whenever you see fit ...But now I'm used to it since I expect it to now occur in all of your posts...;)
Anyways back on topic, I tend generally agree with just about that you've said here....

Speaking of the Frances not liking surprises, my mind goes back to "T-Rex".....

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

I am not throwing a jab at F1 - look at history - more innovation in the 50s, 60s, 70s than today? - you tell me. I really have only one beef with F1 - the lunacy of the constructor being supreme leading to team orders which I think detracts from on the track racing based on driver supremacy. You explain to me why it does not. Were any of Schumacher's titles legit or were they all manufactured and deserve an asterisk? Nobody remembers (I don't) or even cares about who he drove for - the issue is were his titles fully equally competed for compared to say Seniors? Driver or Constructor - who matters more from a fan perspective? This is where my argument will always go. I continue to wait for a justification when F1 is clearly not a wide open run what ya brung innovation rules all series. Whether F1 (or NASCAR) should be all about innovation is a different question that I am in no way addressing.

-Ed-

[Panther_99FS]

Were any of Schumacher's titles legit or were they all manufactured and deserve an asterisk?
-Ed-

All of Schumacher's titles were legit.
With the exception of an odd race here or there, Schumacher generally blew the side pods off of his team mates.

You could debate that we never saw the pitched team mate battles such as Senna & Prost or Mansell & Piquet simply because Schumacher was much faster than all his team mates.

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

When teammates park on the side of the track (I mean physically stop and park) till Schumacher passes them (I will never forget that) you have to wonder. You see the issue?

-Ed-

[Panther_99FS]

Hey All,

When teammates park on the side of the track (I mean physically stop and park) till Schumacher passes them (I will never forget that) you have to wonder. You see the issue?

-Ed-

EasyEd,
We've been through this before....NASCAR & F1 are 2 different perspectives....And personally, I enjoy the fact the each series is distinctly different than the other....

Now I do have concern with NASCAR start & parks. Personally, I'd rather see a team drive the whole race rather than drive for one fuel stint then withdraw due to "handling"...

[wombat666]

Hey All,

When team-mates park on the side of the track (I mean physically stop and park) till Schumacher passes them (I will never forget that) you have to wonder. You see the issue?

-Ed-

And where exactly did this happen Ed?
Aside from the very public demonstration several years ago in Austria, where Barrichello slowed and pulled to one side (not 'stopping', just 'slowing') as well as the relatively recent call for Massa to let Alonso go ahead in Germany, I've yet to see any driver 'park and wait'.
More to the point, I was most unimpressed when Mika Salo was filling in for Herman and leading the German GP, he had to pass up his place to Eddie Irvine who was leading the driver's championship.
However, I suppose a driver who is not in the championship chase and is having a one off drive should expect to be low man on the Totem Pole!
But that really annoyed me, as Salo was one very good driver who never really had a decent drive.
:kilroy: