Navigation Lights

[WarHorse47]

Okay, I got a mystery to solve.

I've only been flying in FSX for over a month, and since installing it I've added a lot of aircraft - freeware, payware and donationware.

Lately I've noticed some issues with the external aircraft lights that I don't understand, and could use some expertise explanation from various experts.

I don't seem to have any problem with Navigation lights if they are managed by the aircraft.cfg such as with Piglet's Skyraider.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a185/WarHorse47/Image1-1_zpsef068a67.jpg

But when the lights are part of the model, I get large orbs of light.

This morning I purchased the Vertigo Studios Stearman, and I really like the aircraft. But as you can see from the screenshot, the navigation lights are not right.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a185/WarHorse47/Image2-1_zps9f05fc08.jpg

I don't believe its an issue with the model, and I assume that the aircraft only references or maps to a standard FSX texture or effects files.

Can anyone shed some light on this? (Sorry for the pun)

Thanks

[Roger]

The lights are modelled in unfortunately. I wanted to reduce the intensity as much as anything but I've not sussed it out yet.

[skyhawka4m]

I would like to see developers adopt what Warbirdsim has done with their latest series of Mustangs. What was done is the lights instead of being an effect they were modeled with the aircraft I believe as a texture that turns on and off. I think it is much more realistic than the bright overly dazzled lights we commonly see on planes.

[Paul Domingue]

I've been considering modeling the lights into my duck. Is this what will happen if I do this? I don't like the glowing orb effect at all and I want mine to appear as they do on Piglet's model. Any advice on this will save me some experimenting.

[WarHorse47]

Well, I've made some progress.

If you notice the navigation light colors on the Stearman, they are not red and green. Apparently this was related to a fault with the ORBX library I installed. I just loaded their corrected library, and I now have green and red nav lights as expected.

However, the size (or intensity or halo effect) which is modeled in is still an issue. ORBX has a light tweaker utility, but that had no effect on the aircraft lights.

Roger, if you ever 'sussed' it out let us know.

[FSX68]

I've been considering modeling the lights into my duck. Is this what will happen if I do this? I don't like the glowing orb effect at all and I want mine to appear as they do on Piglet's model. Any advice on this will save me some experimenting.

Paul.

IMO I recommend the lights not be baked into your duck mdl; what if we wanted to add shockwave lights? Just food for thought.
:engel016:

[mjahn]

I've been considering modeling the lights into my duck. Is this what will happen if I do this? I don't like the glowing orb effect at all and I want mine to appear as they do on Piglet's model. Any advice on this will save me some experimenting.

Paul, if you want them as on the Skyraider you can simply place the default effects in the aircraft.cfg as done by Piglet. Individual users may then add/replace Shockwave lights etc.

Recently I tried coming to grips with the baked-in method and was fairly satisfied with what I was getting:

http://home.arcor.de/edug/c117_38.jpg

You get the nav lights in exactly the right position, with the right intensity, and you don't see them when you are not supposed to. You can also get an angled and rotating landing light beam and a proper light splash on the ground. Not that you need for the Duck I suppose.

The basic approach has been posted by developers Bjoern ("Heretic") and Bill Leaming ("n4gix") in this thread (gmax samples and texture recipes included):

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20769

If you need any further pointers let me know.

[stansdds]

Adding lines to the aircraft cfg file to add or replace exterior lights works... sometimes. But if wing flex is modeled or the wings fold or otherwise move, then at some point you will likely have lights floating in midair. I tried this with the FSND Cessna Citation I. It looked great on the ground, but in flight the wing tips lifted up and my new nav lights were floating below the wing.

[WarHorse47]

Adding lines to the aircraft cfg file to add or replace exterior lights works... sometimes. But if wing flex is modeled or the wings fold or otherwise move, then at some point you will likely have lights floating in midair. I tried this with the FSND Cessna Citation I. It looked great on the ground, but in flight the wing tips lifted up and my new nav lights were floating below the wing.Your are right. Adding lines to the aircraft.cfg to replace exterior lights does not work with folding wing aircraft, either.

I'm not a modeler by any means, but I fiddled around enough in FS9 with the shockwave lights to produce some amazing results. But now onto FSX, and my initial post.

I am hoping that someone with modeling experience can enlighten me (or us) on how to control or modulate the intensity of the standard FSX navigation lights.

From what I understand, lights that are modeled into the aircraft are controlled by a fx_2.bmp file. I found this file in the FSX and FS9 effects directory, as well as several copies or variants in various subfolders. I found a few modified versions searching the web as well, but I still have yet to answer the question on how to control the intensity and how to tone down the navigation lights.

Somebody, somewhere has got to know the answer....

[Paul Domingue]

Paul.

IMO I recommend the lights not be baked into your duck mdl; what if we wanted to add shockwave lights? Just food for thought.
:engel016:

This question has been put forth in the past by several people with regard to my duck and I am not sure what to do for those who have shockwave lights. Has anybody tried the shockwave lights on an aircraft with modeled lights? If I go with the lights in the CFG then they must look correct otherwise they will be modeled. I suppose I could generate two versions, one modeled one not.



Paul, if you want them as on the Skyraider you can simply place the default effects in the aircraft.cfg as done by Piglet. Individual users may then add/replace Shockwave lights etc.

Recently I tried coming to grips with the baked-in method and was fairly satisfied with what I was getting:

You get the nav lights in exactly the right position, with the right intensity, and you don't see them when you are not supposed to. You can also get an angled and rotating landing light beam and a proper light splash on the ground. Not that you need for the Duck I suppose.

The basic approach has been posted by developers Bjoern ("Heretic") and Bill Leaming ("n4gix") in this thread (gmax samples and texture recipes included):

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20769

If you need any further pointers let me know.

Thanks for the link. I have been discussing this very issue with N2056 since I need to learn how it is done. I want to use the method for the landing light (yes the duck has one) and the adjustable pencil beams in the cockpit. As it stands I have no idea how it is done but with some reading I hope to tackle it in a few. I'll take you up on the pointers too.:jump:

[delta_lima]

I quickly checked, and the Piglet Skyraider's wingtip nav lights are not in the lights section.

Any "light" on a moving surface (usually a folding wing) - that actually moves with it (unlike some FS9 folding wing types, where the wings would fold, but the lights would stay suspended out in place) - are part of the model, and therefore they too, are not editable in the lights. section.

Apart from folding-wing carrier aircraft, where there is no choice if the lights are to move properly with the wing, I'll agree with the others - I prefer lights that are not baked into the model - instead, having them in the lights section, where it enables the lattitude to replace them, reposition them (often they're not placed quite right), etc.

Sorry, doesn't really answer your question - but just clarify the "why" in the case of the Piglet Skyradier was not due to it being in the lights section - but rather it was more accurately modelled (ie, discreetly, not massive light balls).

Best,

DL

[WarHorse47]

I quickly checked, and the Piglet Skyraider's wingtip nav lights are not in the lights section.

Any "light" on a moving surface (usually a folding wing) - that actually moves with it (unlike some FS9 folding wing types, where the wings would fold, but the lights would stay suspended out in place) - are part of the model, and therefore they too, are not editable in the lights. section.

Apart from folding-wing carrier aircraft, where there is no choice if the lights are to move properly with the wing, I'll agree with the others - I prefer lights that are not baked into the model - instead, having them in the lights section, where it enables the lattitude to replace them, reposition them (often they're not placed quite right), etc.

Sorry, doesn't really answer your question - but just clarify the "why" in the case of the Piglet Skyradier was not due to it being in the lights section - but rather it was more accurately modelled (ie, discreetly, not massive light balls).

Best,

DLBy golly, you're right. Piglet has used a mix of lights modeled and in the aircraft.cfg. I didn't catch that when I looked at the aircraft.cfg file.

So, this changes the question. How did Piglet get his Nav lights to look so good as compared to what I'm seeing with other modeled Nav lights? Is it part of the coding created by the designer? How does that relate to the default FSX lighting, or does it?

I read through the developer's link Paul provided, and it was all gobble-de-gook to me.

[delta_lima]

By golly, you're right. Piglet has used a mix of lights modeled and in the aircraft.cfg. I didn't catch that when I looked at the aircraft.cfg file.

So, this changes the question. How did Piglet get his Nav lights to look so good as compared to what I'm seeing with other modeled Nav lights? Is it part of the coding created by the designer? How does that relate to the default FSX lighting, or does it?

I read through the developer's link Paul provided, and it was all gobble-de-gook to me.

On reflection, I can appreciate how on long span/visibly flexible wing aircraft, that modelled in lights also make sense. As to how, I know some devs struggled with this - in a conversation with Skippy from Flying Stations, they somehow couldn't cure the rather prominent pair of light balls on their otherwise superb Sea Fury. On the other hand, Manfred's Super Goon looks to have a nice more muted looking light that I think is more accurate. Whatever it is, alas, it looks like with baked in lights, they can only be edited "upstream" in development, not afterward once the mdl is compiled/mapped.

DL

[mjahn]

With the system I am using post-editing is possible, within limits, because it's based on alpha'd textures, so you can change size (a bit), color, and intensity. I use additional default effects, too, two fx_landing in order to get a brighter groundsplash, in addition to the custom splash.

N2056 is a good address in this field, none better I should say...

Paul, pls check your PM.