Speaking of Skyhawks . .

[expat]

Over the pond for a few days and was speaking today to the pilot of this restored A-4C visiting KVRB Vero Beach. Told him about our latest flightsim Scooter and handling tweaking and he said the aircraft actually had very solid lateral stability - he had over 400 traps in the Scooter and also had been LSO and observed it many times vs e.g. Vigilantes etc and said it was basically easy to both fly and trap.
Also spoke with a former Marine F-4D Skyray pilot who was there.

The A-4's greatly awaited departure was embarrassingly thwarted by its huffer failing to huff and it and huffer were towed unceremoniously away to Piper's workshops for the night and further troubleshooting.

[SpazSinbad]

I'll guess the Skyhawk pilot was referring to general flight characteristics or just landing configuration or other condition?

The 'StabAug' was essential especially when clean at operational speeds. Otherwise the 'nose wandering' could make the pilot ill very quickly (also depending on other circumstances). The NATOPS recommendation as I recall was to land ASAP if the 'stabaug' stability augmentation failed.

The Skyhawk generally at best roll speed of 250 knots had a fantastic roll rate of 720 degrees per second whilst in level flight one roll ONLY was allowed. One could never achieve max roll rate with that restriction even with full (attempted) aileron deflection because the one roll was achieved before full deflection - there and back. Who was counting the roll rate anyway - it was fast! :-) New A-4 pilots could be spotted as the wheels lifted off during takeoff because of their wing waggling. It was just a matter of adjusting to it compared to other lesser rolling aircraft.

In the dirty landing configuration the A-4 was solid and NEVER was any rudder required at any time; except perhaps to trim out external stores that had gone sideways a little. The VIRTAVIA Skyhawk issues regarding turning will be solved. Look at the relevant thread to see the FSX recommended settings setup. As I have indicated there [ http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?73206-Virtavia-A-4-Skyhawk-available&highlight=Skyhawk ] once that was done and with a good joystick (rather than my previous sloppy old SidewinderPro) most of the issues were fixed. The instruments and AoA indexer need fixing and I have not tested any performance parameters; but in the landing config it will be accurate enough. I have tested only the A4G version whilst the other versions are being tested by others.

Perhaps I need to emphasise that in the case of the A4G - with the new Cyborg stick and the recommended FSX settings - I saw no issues at all (compared to my previous wobbles as described in the thread). Perhaps there is an illusion on some screens caused by the curved hardware view forward - that seemed to me to be an issue on my new wide screen until I adjusted to that.

In the NATOPS AFCS Automatic Flight Control System section there are these words:
"...Directional stability augmentation is active during AFCS operation or can be selected separately while on normal flight control. This yaw damping action is independent of pilot movement of the rudder pedals...."
&
"...STABILITY AUGMENTATION SWITCH
Yaw damping action is provided when the engage switch is in the ENGAGE position or the stability augmentation switch is in the STAB AUG position...."
&
"...STABILITY AUGMENTATION MODE
The stability augmentation mode provides rudder yaw damping action which is that of pilot movement of the rudder pedals. The mode can be selected at any time
without other AFCS functions...."

NATOPS PDFs for the A-4E/F/G models may be found at the URLs in my signature below.

[Deacon211]

"In the dirty landing configuration the A-4 was solid and NEVER was any rudder required at any time; except perhaps to trim out external stores that had gone sideways a little. The VIRTAVIA Skyhawk issues regarding turning will be solved. Look at the relevant thread to see the FSX recommended settings setup. As I have indicated there [ http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforum...hlight=Skyhawk (http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?73206-Virtavia-A-4-Skyhawk-available&highlight=Skyhawk) ] once that was done and with a good joystick (rather than my previous sloppy old SidewinderPro) most of the issues were fixed. The instruments and AoA indexer need fixing and I have not tested any performance parameters; but in the landing config it will be accurate enough. I have tested only the A4G version whilst the other versions are being tested by others."


Hey Spaz,

Thanks for the heads up. Can I ask if you are saying that the sideslip is largely corrected by setting up the joystick or are you saying that the flight model will be corrected to address the slip?

I looked through the other thread, but I can't quite figure out where the "FSX settings" that were mentioned a few times are specified. My CH products setup is calibrated and I've tried various combinations of sensitivity and realism sliders, but the A-4 still seems like it is "translating" sideways, almost like a helicopter would at low speed.

Glad to hear you are helping out on the effort! :salute:

[SpazSinbad]

Around this page 13 on the VIRTAVIA A-4 thread is this:

On page 13: http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?73206-Virtavia-A-4-Skyhawk-available/page13&highlight=Skyhawk

"SpazoSinbado 11 Dec 2012: Thought it may be appropriate to mention that after re-installing FSX Accel in a new location (different disk) and then installing VIRTAVIA A-4F with my new Cyborg EVO stick (previous installation had used initially my venerable old wonky Sidewinder then the EVO) there were no issues with the strange 'yaw to the right initially when rolling with aileron only turning left'. No files changed. Then the new AoA Indexer installed with still no problems. Also an issue with the mainwheels being inches off the tarmac was fixed in this new installation. Perhaps the Sidewinder stick used earlier affected some settings? Meanwhile I should say that my NEW (as discussed with modders) control settings were:

Keyboard Sensitivity NIL on all axes
Realistic simulation full
Rudder sensitivity full to the left NIL
while NULL zone was full to the right

YMMV. It is essential to do aileron only turns THEN pull Gs to get around the corner as required. I think the front view with the side panels lower margin falling away can increase the illusion/effect of any tendency to 'yaw right whilst turning left'. It is an odd thing sometimes, even without this yaw effect, and I would guess is to do with the sim itself."

'Deacon211' thanks for your input. My experience (now a long time ago - 40 years) has not been interrupted by any other flying except at the time on A4Gs and the various old/new training aircraft used by the RAN FAA at the time [Vampire in RAAF/RAN; Sea Venom (basic only - no carrier time); and the Macchi MB326H]. I have been a long time user of MsFlightSim since the beginning, but always disappointed with the (non-existent really) NavAv aspect, until FSX Accelerator with the Hornet came along. WOW! When modified to the 'SLUDGE' standard (free mod) the Hornet seems to fly very well and with other aids / gauges that make the IFLOLS easy to see at a distance (I don't use instruments/needles) then carrier approaches are doable. There is a great set of FCLP missions (version 2) and an LSO component (under test) which seems very good. Always there are limitations to the FSX sim engine but from basically nothing in FSX to all the mods in FSX Accel some people have done excellent work for no pay. Well Done BZ all those hardworking people.

The A4G was as far as flying qualities the same as the A-4E/F/K with the 9,300 lb thrust engine. Whilst the TA4G was a notable performance dog in comparison to the A4G. :-) You will see a bunch of A4G and RAN FAA fixed wing related stuff at the URLs in my signature below - all free downloads. [Gamefront/Filefront now kaput so I'll get rid of that URL.]

[mal998]

A-4 flight files are just about completed. We have had extensive input from several SOH members who were kind enough to test and provide feedback.

[Deacon211]

That's great news Mal! Thank you.

This may be irrelevant now, but I tried the settings Spazsinbad suggested and I still felt that I was getting a lot of sideslip unless I put about half throw of rudder into the turn. This seemed quite a bit for a jet. Interestingly, though the airplane seemed to need a lot of rudder, when you did center the ball, the aircraft felt as though it was turning properly.

I was considering Spazsinbad's suggestion that the view might give the illusion of false sideslip when I stumbled on this:

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y285/Deacon211/Aircraft/2013-3-3_17-50-46-506_zps34ade984.png


The smoke trail visible in the picture is the exhaust of the jet as I make a steep descending turn. It may be difficult to see, but the picture is aimed as straight down the exhaust as it leaves the tailpipe as I can manage. As you can see, the aircraft has a substantial yaw angle to it. This is without any rudder at all.

My memory of the A-4 was the same as SpazSinbad...that generally very little rudder was required in turns.

As I said this may be old news, but since most of the posts I have seen say that the testers cannot duplicate this issue, I wanted to post this in case it might help any.

Thanks again and thanks SSB.

Deacon

[mal998]

The fact that the original testers did not have the issue made it more difficult to fix. That's why I turned to those who were experiencing the "side-slip" issue in order to insure we got it taken care of this time. Hopefully, we have done just that.

If not, you can contact me with a postcard to Fiji. If I don't answer right away just blame it on the tradewinds. :icon_lol:

[SpazSinbad]

Both my old Sidewinder Pro and Cyborg Pro have twist grips for rudder control. It takes some care to turn without using any rudder whatsoever. I would suggest that with the FSX settings recommended that a pilot practice turning purely with ailerons. Forget about rudders. If it does not work then perhaps the 'fix' will help.

To repeat: once I deliberately ensured that no rudder via the twist grip control column was used things were OK. Transitioning from one control column to another with different controls and effects took some getting used to. Once I realised that due to different hand position compared to old column, that when turning, I was putting in a very slight 'twist' (and sometimes some positive G in error) then without that 'twist' input things were as described. Of course we cannot replicate different control columns - so - good luck.

Try flying without any rudder whatsoever. Just use ailerons and no G input - that is important also. Once in the turn then apply G to retain altitude (plus power of course). YMMV.

[Deacon211]

Thanks guys.

Fiji? Fantastic! I'm jealous.

Hey SSD, I'm running a full CH setup. The plane does not turn well for me with no rudder. But, it turns perfectly with a good bootful of rudder...I just think it requires a bit much. Anyway, we'll see what the new air file brings. :)

Deacon

[SpazSinbad]

Not having your setup I cannot say what the issue is 'Deacon211'. However I'll stress that the original .air file was fine after my reinstall of FSX Accel (done correctly) with only the new Cyborg Pro connected and with the recommended setup. Perhaps if you try a fresh install of FSX Accelerator (if possible) then that may help. I was surprised to find what I found after doing so. As usual your mileage may vary. I would feel very weird deliberately using any rudder at all.

Forgot to add that I was using Windows 7 64bits but do not know if that has anything to do with FSX Accelerator.

[Deacon211]

Thanks again Spaz.

I think I'm going to wait and see what the new air file brings first. I have so much payware and scenery that I'd need to reinstall, it would take a week to get it all running again! :icon_lol:

Deacon

[skyhawka4m]

Thanks again Spaz.

I think I'm going to wait and see what the new air file brings first. I have so much payware and scenery that I'd need to reinstall, it would take a week to get it all running again! :icon_lol:

Deacon


Deacon....the new airfiles will fix it. I have had one or two of them...and the ones I have which I'm sure aren't the final ones...are much better.

[Deacon211]

Excellent! I'm looking forward to it.

It's nice to see a developer support their product. :salute:

Deacon