Long-lasting flames..

[oldwheat]

... from dropped weapons. Is it possible to acheive or is this a redux of my old 'smoke' question? ie. the game has short-lived effects hard-wired in & longer lasting effects aren't in the cards :banghead:..

[ckissling]

There is fx fire and smoke I have I'll look it up and see. Do you have other info on building fx files other than the one by Jaxson? If you do I would like to get a copy. ckissling

[ckissling]

Oldwheat
The file fx_fire_smoke_l.fx It is 17kb by Blade, says fire lasts 10 minutes
or more. If you can't locate it I'll send it. ckissling

[jimskifs]

It can be done I think by tinkering with the "lifetime" line in the effect file. I see the file for fx_smoke_rx looks like this in notepad:

[Library Effect]
Lifetime=5
Version=1.00

[Emitter.0]
Lifetime=0.00, 0.00
Delay=0.00, 0.00
Bounce=0.00
Rate=44.00, 66.00
X Emitter Velocity=0.00, 0.00
Y Emitter Velocity=0.00, 0.00
Z Emitter Velocity=0.00, 0.00
Drag=0.00, 0.00
X Particle Velocity=0.00, 0.00
Y Particle Velocity=0.00, 0.00
Z Particle Velocity=0.00, 0.00
X Rotation=0.00, 0.00
Y Rotation=0.00, 0.00
Z Rotation=0.00, 0.00
X Offset=0.00, 0.00
Y Offset=0.00, 0.00
Z Offset=0.00, 0.00

[Particle.0]
Lifetime=2.00, 8.50
Type=19
X Scale=1.00, 1.50
Y Scale=1.00, 1.50
Z Scale=3.00, 3.50
X Scale Rate=0.50, 1.00
Y Scale Rate=0.50, 1.00
Z Scale Rate=0.00, 0.00
Drag=-4.00, -3.98
Color Rate=0.33, 0.45
X Offset=0.00, 0.00
Y Offset=0.00, 0.00
Z Offset=0.00, 0.00
Fade In=0.00, 0.00
Fade Out=0.55, 0.57
Rotation=-180.00, 180.00
Shade=1
Face=1, 1, 1

[ParticleAttributes.0]
Blend Mode=1
Texture=fx_1.bmp
Bounce=0.00
Color Start=75, 75, 75, 10
Color End=75, 75, 75, 0
Jitter Distance=0.00
Jitter Time=1.00
TempK=107.00
TempRate=0.01
uv1=0.50, 0.75
uv2=0.75, 1.00
X Scale Goal=4.00
Y Scale Goal=4.00
Z Scale Goal=4.00
Extrude Length=3.00
Extrude Pitch Max=0.00
Extrude Heading Max=0.00

I think the lifetime here is in seconds. I was once trying to simulate a fire bomb with a long burning fire, the effect was a huge multiplier on a "phospherous fire" effect. I think it ended up a city block sized fire burning for 40 minutes and a raid by multiple bombers at night was a sight, but the frame rate really suffered.

Jimski

[bearcat241]

Explosion effects written within the effects strings of droppable weapons are hardwired to the visual cue of the weapons themselves. As soon as the weap disappears on impact the effects count down to zero also.

However, when a gp bomb dp is built with fx_gndexpl_l.fx in its mix, this effect will generate a light, but lasting smoke after-effect like a real gp conventional bomb would. If you replace the lasting smoke section of this file per se, with the lasting fire sections from the fx_oiltankfire_l.fx file, all bombs using this gndexpl file will then generate this lasting fire also.

This may not be entirely realistic though when dropping GP weaps in open terrain against troop emplacements or moving vehicles. Unless the grass is REALLY dry, open ground really doesn't burn much at all after a GP bomb strike -- lots of smoke but very little fire. The shock wave and blast vacuum prevents this for the most part. Only napalm and some phosphorus weaps have true lasting flame distinction.

[ckissling]

Bearcat 241
How would you change the direction of fx_fireball_l so it lays flat along the ground or just above and move forward for 300 ft or so like real napalm? ckissling

[oldwheat]

I think that you are reading my mind here Ckissling.

[Warhawk1130]

Noticing the effect, and using the upgrades, I notice a significant drop im framerates. 50 to 13 or less while the smoke and fire are going. I am assuming these are the updated effects. I am running a 5 year old 3 ghz and 2 megs ram on a 7800GS.

Is this normal? or do I have something amiss?

[bobhegf]

Warhawk1130, my pc is about the same as yours and about the same age. My fram rates do the samething.:d

[bearcat241]

Bearcat 241
How would you change the direction of fx_fireball_l so it lays flat along the ground or just above and move forward for 300 ft or so like real napalm? ckissling

Don't know for sure, but using Jim's smoke FX from above as an example, i would start with the [Particle.0] section highlighted below:

[Particle.0]
Lifetime=2.00, 8.50
Type=19
X Scale=1.00, 1.50
Y Scale=1.00, 1.50
Z Scale=3.00, 3.50
X Scale Rate=0.50, 1.00
Y Scale Rate=0.50, 1.00
Z Scale Rate=0.00, 0.00
Drag=-4.00, -3.98
Color Rate=0.33, 0.45
X Offset=0.00, 0.00
Y Offset=0.00, 0.00
Z Offset=0.00, 0.00
Fade In=0.00, 0.00
Fade Out=0.55, 0.57
Rotation=-180.00, 180.00
Shade=1
Face=1, 1, 1

Judging from this layout, the Y axis is the one you want to look at for a long, crawling wave of fire. X axis will control the width of the fire wave and the Z axis is the "rise" of the plume. As you can see above, the Z axis has values thrice that of the X and Y, so i'm guessing that this would be the rise of the smoke plume in this case. I can only guess that the "Drag" will also have an effect, but i'd save that adjustment for last. To make it last, you would increase the Lifetime=2.00, 8.50 to something much higher.

[oldwheat]

I have made a number of tweaks using the above info & to be perfectly honest, I can't see a whole lot of difference (if any :costumes:) in how the explosian is rendered. Same constant size & duration. I'm going to try a few new approaches but I fear that CFS2 hardwiring is going to prevail in the end :banghead:.

[Corsair Freak]

I set the Y scale to about 250 last night and there was absolutely no difference at all.

In fact, I didn't notice any difference between a normal explosion and the napalm effect that ckissling uploaded. In Blade's effects the fire goes pretty high in the sky, if we could turn it sideways that would be a huge step.

CF

[simonu]

long lasting volumetric effects are bad frame rate hogs.
the effects SDK for fs2002 will take out the guesswork, attached below is actually a ZIP, rename it. unzip it. read it. Its a word DOC so you need something that can read docs.

(http://download.microsoft.com/download/FlightSim2002/Install/sdk/W982KMeXP/EN-US/Specialeffects_SDK.exe)

[Corsair Freak]

Thanks simonu,

in contrast to what Bearcat said, the Y axis is vertical. So I was making the fire taller.

CF

[bearcat241]

Thanks for the clarifying document Simon...and thanks Corsair Freak for clearing up my speculations on the scales. As i said in the beginning of my second reply, "I don't know for sure...". But... since we were all just hypothesising here, i figured it would be something to look into as another place to experiment.

[Corsair Freak]

Bearcat,

I think FX files are pretty foreign to many of us. There hasn't been many breakthroughs in this field for years.

CF

[ckissling]

The fx_gndexpl_s that I was first using was one by Nanni, it was one I replaced the original with. But for what I am looking for it was just too much effect, so Wolfi sent me a copy of the original.
As I understand the size of the bomb dictates what fx file is used to start
the train of effects in the DP file for that bomb. Due to the fact that normal drop tanks do not explode, you then have to the D/T as a bomb.
If it is a napalm filled tank and so named, you will need the explosion to
start the alterd effects in the alterd D/P file, but you want that explosion
not to stand out very much and take away from the other effects forth
coming.ckissling

[bearcat241]

Well, it seems that the main culprit is the fx_gndexpl_l.fx file. The sim automatically calls this file for every large bomb impact, no matter if its in the dropped bomb's dp or not as a scheduled effect. When it comes in, it completely terminates the end of the bomb's FX string and leaves its own lasting effect, whatever is written into it. So, it doesn't matter what other FX files you edit and write into a napalm bomb's dp effects string, those mods will be shut off and replaced by the fx_gndexpl_l file.

As i said earlier, my fx_gndexpl_l.fx file has a lasting smoke effect written in. So I merged and edited the compositions of both my fx_napalm and my fx_oiltankfire files and renamed the end product fx_gndexpl_l.fx after backing up the original. The pics below are my rough draft so far. The fire is pretty good; duration is excellent; but i need to work on the direction of the blast along the ground and the smoke needs to be "bounced" higher above the fire and widened to the diameter of the full lasting fire.

The work continues...:running:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v85/bearcat241/Demo%20shots/0084.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v85/bearcat241/Demo%20shots/0085.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v85/bearcat241/Demo%20shots/0086.jpg

But even if i achieve the perfect visual, there's still the nagging problem of this after-effect existing for ALL large bombs - GP or napalm - because this modded fx_gndexpl_l.fx will be called everytime. :kilroy:

[Corsair Freak]

Looks good BC, but will this affect all bombs that call for fx_gndexpl_l? Also, how are frame rates? Lasting smoke kills my frames.

CF

[ckissling]

Bearcat
A 250lb bomb would use fx_gndexpl_s, if you listed your napalm as a
1 in the DP file you get a smaller explosion, unless it's one of Nanni's
replacement files. ckissling

[bearcat241]

Looks good BC, but will this affect all bombs that call for fx_gndexpl_l? Also, how are frame rates? Lasting smoke kills my frames.

I think you overlooked my last statement at the bottom of the post... QUOTE: "But even if i achieve the perfect visual, there's still the nagging problem of this after-effect existing for ALL large bombs - GP or napalm - because this modded fx_gndexpl_l.fx will be called every time."

As for frames, i get a broad range of 45-77 on my rig no matter what's happening. Seems that my ancient, 8 year-old, space-hoggin' 21" monitor can't be set at refresh rates above 85 hertz w/o locking up at 1024x768 resolution - 75 hz @ 1280x1024 (even with slight vcard overclocking). So i set the refresh limit at 75 and that's pretty much where my frames max out on average, though some moments it quickly fluctuates between 77 and 120 under the clearest conditions. In this case the frames bottomed at around 40+ on explosions and climbed to 60 when flying close to the ensuing fire and smoke.

CK, point granted but i'm greedy...i want the largest explosion and ensuing fire possible within reason for a standard 150 gal napalm weapon. I'll be working on a compromise for that suggestion.

[demorier]

Not only that guys but there may be a limiting factor in the objects that are damaged. Just like an aircraft dp all objects in the library like buildings, hangers etc, have there own destruction parameters built in depending on what hits them. That's why many objects in the game like boxes of ammo, ships etc were modified to make them explode more. All controlled in those object dp's.

If you want to see how far you may have to modify an explosion effect just check the numbers that were used for the nuc bomb dp...they are astonomical compared to conventional bombs.

[bearcat241]

Not only that guys but there may be a limiting factor in the objects that are damaged.


Already factored that in chief...the collateral values are totally adjustable...no limits. And the collateral damage can be controlled not only in the weap dp gunstations but also in the header of any FX file itself:

[Library Effect]
Lifetime=5
Version=1.00
Damage=1
Hitpoints=6000.00, 6200.00
Magnitude=50000.00, 55000.00
Time=0.40, 0.40
Range=1000.00, 2000.00
Sound=5
Sound Param=34

The reason you don't see collateral damage in my pics is that the objects were placed as non-GSL scenery in MR's Iwo Jima location. Non-GSL don't burn and don't suffer weap damage...

[ckissling]

Simonu

Thanks for the FS2002 effects txt, it's what I have been looking for.
ckissling

[oldwheat]

Any new revelations? Bump :d..