FSX, A Plane in a Week 'Challenge'...

[Lionheart]

Hey guys,


Here is an idea for a challenge. Sort of a contest...

This will be for developers who can make planes for FSX.

OBJECT OF CHALLENGE:
1. Construct a plane in either FSDS, Gmax, Blender, 3DMax or other form of 3D software.

2. Must use 'new' parts (no recycled pilots, tires, props, etc... 100% new).

3. Must show screenshots of construction process in 3D program.

4. Must be totally flyable when done (not half done, etc).

5. Must be done in 7 days exactly, like from Friday at 12 Noon, to Friday at 12 noon. No lateness by even 1 min.

6. Must be in FSX format, not FS9. (This is to prove that FSX planes can be 'basically done' in one week).

7. Gauges from other planes are allowed. Only the airframe, textures, and airfiles are of necessity.

8. Sounds from other planes are allowed. Again, only the airframe (mesh), textures, and airfiles are required.

9. Textures can be recycled from other planes, but possibly might change. I think that this is debateable and should be looked at as possibly being against the rules as people usually dont use others textures for making planes with, etc. Perhaps only use of 'stock FSX' textures 'could' be allowed.

EDIT: ADDITIONS;

10. Aircraft must have functioning instruments

11. Aircraft must have a basic VC and have transparent glass. No fake glass that is actually textured polygons, but a visible interior from outside.

12. Aircraft must have animated control surfaces. Joysticks and control yokes, etc, are optional, but exterior flight surfaces must animate.

13. Planes in the contest must be made freeware at the end of the contest, when submitted.

14. Planes cannot already be started before the 'start' time. They must be totally built 'within' 7 days.... From beginning to end.


This is a contest to invigorate and stimulate developers and possible would be developers into getting more creations out into the FSX virtual skies.


We would need contest moderators and a chief contest manager, such as Henry, Panther, etc. We would need to all agree on a date, time, etc.


This would probably have some really basic planes with minimal animations. This could also possibly become a bigger endeavor in the future encompassing a more 'worldly' scope, advertised on other sites such as AVSIM and Flightsim, Simviation, etc.


But..... All in all, creation of a basic plane in 7 days... No more, no less, from the ground up, no recycling....

Perhaps something like prizes could be 'won' by the person or group that could be given out, like 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place winners so that there would be incentives... Voting would be done on the planes to find the best ones. Perhaps even a 'voting' by all members on the favorite plane. Prizes could be payware planes, utilities like FS Panel Studio, FS Sound Studio, etc..

What do you think?


Bill

[Boomer]

Hmmmm

I think I would be up for that now that I got Max installed on my new puter.

Only problem would be the time constraints. I think it is doable if you dont have a day job.
Burning the modnight oil I should be able to make it happen. I even have an aircraft in mind to do, clean lines & would benefit from super detailing after the contest ends.

[pointy31]

Bill,

Could participants team up to do an entry, or individual participants only. I can't build an airplane yet, but just curious. I believe a team, such as the A-26 and Grizzly team could easily turn out a basic airplane, such as a 172, or anything in that category. maybe even a simple retactable geared bird....Great idea, and maybe it would encourage others (like myself) to get off their duffs and learn how to do it...An added benefit would be that a lot of "outsiders" would be drawn to the Outhouse....:ernae:

[Daube]

I understand the basic motivation for such a challenge, it would be very interesting, but there are some points which are a real problem:

5. Must be done in 7 days exactly, like from Friday at 12 Noon, to Friday at 12 noon. No lateness by even 1 min.
Freeware developpers don't need this unnecessary pressure. I would prefer them to take months and produce quality models, instead of just a week to produce crap...

11. Aircraft must have a basic VC and have transparent glass. No fake glass that is actually textured polygons, but a visible interior from outside.
There are already enough addons with bad, almost useless virtual cockpits, or even with no virtual cockpit at all. We don't need more addons like that, and we really don't need to encourage developpers to produce addons like that.


Don't get me wrong, this contest is a nice idea, really, but I fear the outcome will just be something that will lower a bit more the average quality of the freeware addons. I think it would be better to propose a duration of one month, and force the aircraft to have a real good VC with all basic functionnalities included (engines, systems and lights like the default planes).

[Daube]

I have read my answer again, and realized that it sounds quite aggresive. Sorry Lionheart, it's not meant to be aggresive at all, I'm just trying to express my fears about this contest, nothing more ! ;)

[Paularx]

Such a competition is a great idea Mr. Ortis !

About the choice of planes - It would probably be a good idea for the administrator/s of this contest to supply 3-views to the entrants at random on the day of the start of the competition.

That obviously means "cheating" or building before hand is mostly eliminated.

Such a competition is a great idea Mr. Ortis !

Rebuild the classics from FS9 - using their textures and gauges / airfile & sounds perhaps ?

Paularx

:applause::applause::applause:

[Henry]

I have read my answer again, and realized that it sounds quite aggresive. Sorry Lionheart, it's not meant to be aggresive at all, I'm just trying to express my fears about this contest, nothing more ! ;)
and I agree with the fears
a month would be better, just my personal opinion
Great idea for a competition
H

[Paularx]

@ Daube :

A week seems a bit short to me as well - a month is more likely for a single person.:kilroy:

A team-based contest for a week's turnaround seems more likely though.:ernae:

Mr. Ortis - lots of good ideas from your side lately !:bananalama:

[spotlope]

I like the idea of this challenge, and I think a week is a great time frame. As I see it, the point isn't to create a payware-quality plane in a week, just to see how far a person might get in that ultra-limited time frame. I just got done doing National Novel Writing Month (http://www.nanowrimo.org) back in November, and this is sort of in that vein. The point isn't the outcome, it's the journey.

After all that blustering, and even though I'd love to try my hand at a plane, I don't have any free time at the moment. I think Francois would string me up by my shoelaces if I abandoned my paying work to play for a week.

Still... :amen:

[SkippyBing]

I like the idea, might I suggest having it during a week that's a holiday around most of the world e.g. Easter weekend or some such so people don't burn out from working during the day and modelling at night? Obviously it'd be impossible to find a week that suits everyone but it should be possible to find one that accommodates most people.

[harleyman]

Great Idea there Lionheart...


But I can only build dreams......:focus: LOL

But it is a great idea....


BTW...Who puts up the winning loot? I must have missed that....:wavey:

[Lionheart]

Hey guys,


Perhaps a week is too short, but remember, we are talking simple planes, what ever it takes to get a plane done in one week. This means prepairing yourself on shortcuts, how you would do the mesh, strategically simple.. This is a Formula One race, not a 'tour in the country side' sort of thing. ;)

This isnt to make 'amazing' planes either, this is about making a plane in a time constraint. This isnt about making a awesome VC, this is about making a simple plane with a VC and doing one as nice as you dare with as little time as possible.


Having Teams.. Yes, why not? Would be good to show people how to work great in teams and in a shared time crunch.




Who puts up the Loot?

HarleyMan


HarleyMan,

I am sure we could get some sponsors to provide some cool toys for the winners. We have alot of developers here that might join in with contributions. I for one have many packages I would offer, such as the Epic LT, Viking, etc.


Back to the time element, 1 week would be difficult. 1 month would be a long time. Again, the idea is speed. How fast can you make a plane. Can you do one in one week. You must think 'simplistically'. An ultralight would be a good thought, but then all that rigging would be a nightmare.


Remember, this is for FSX, so the parts have to all be textured. If they are not, the model bunches up in a ball and would not qualify. (Unfinished would be a failure to pass).


Bill Wommack,

Roger that on having the time presently. I dont even know if I could/should participate as I have such a huge load of work going myself. But for those that can afford a 'race', this might be interesting and good fun.




Bill

[Snuffy]

I have read my answer again, and realized that it sounds quite aggresive. Sorry Lionheart, it's not meant to be aggresive at all, I'm just trying to express my fears about this contest, nothing more ! ;)


there is nothing saying in the rules that you have to purchase/download the plane when its finished. If the modeller's have the time to do it ... why not??

Otherwise ... I think Bill is feeling a bit cocky cuz he thinks his new apple is going to blaze any pc ... :173go1: :wave:

[Henry]

Otherwise ... I think Bill is feeling a bit cocky cuz he thinks his new apple is going to blaze any pc ... :173go1: :wave:
LOL
I do like the idea
and if team work is involved
ill chip in to do some basic flight dynamics
i wonder how many people are interested ?
H

[warbird861]

Or maybe so that who makes the plane fastest. And then there would be someone who judges if it qualifies, like is the vc good enough and stuff like that.

Or is this very stupid idea? :kilroy:

[stiz]

i would be if the time is bumped to 2 weeks :)

Also another thought, would the person have to pick from a list of planes, or be able to choose their own??

Also maybe 2 groups, single person and groups??

[warbird861]

LOL
I do like the idea
and if team work is involved
ill chip in to do some basic flight dynamics
i wonder how many people are interested ?
H

I'm interested :wavey:
I could at least do some paint jobs

[gajit]

I have read my answer again, and realized that it sounds quite aggresive. Sorry Lionheart, it's not meant to be aggresive at all, I'm just trying to express my fears about this contest, nothing more ! ;)

I agree with you also Daube. Standards of payware products have been slipping lately with even the basics being overlooked in beta testing - even with some of the better producers.

[Lionheart]

I think that for this to be motivating, people should be able to pick what ever plane they want.

If a guy wants to make a P-51, vintage Demoiselle, Cessna Skyhawk, etc, it should be up to that person. Otherwise, I can see a vintage guy being given a 3D of an F22, and a WWII buff being given a 737. (eeks....)


Bill

[BASys]

Hi Folks

Suggestion -
How about killing 2 birds with one stone.

Rather than expending a week's effort
into building yet another plank,
(which probably already exists in all fs versions anyway ;-),
and that because of the time constraint, and user expectations,
wouldn't be fully appreciated by the community.

Since it's been commented in another thread
that there's a dearth of FSX choppers,
how about the task being to make a helicopter ?

The entire community would then appreciate the your efforts,
warts and all, whatever the outcome,
even if it's only considered a gap-filler.

Stipulation -
Must be a different model from existing or pending FSX helicopters.
List available.

HTH
ATB
Paul

[Chuck_Jodry-VJPL]

Bill , i thought you gave up glue sniffing ....<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
But Seriously any of us who know our way around 3DS/Gmax/FSDS could build a simple plane in a week , but those same people are all busy building <o:p></o:p>
planes already .. it seems a shame to interrupt a top quality [ ---- ] < with a simple low quality [ ---- ] < name >, just to prove what we already know can be done .<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
On the other hand it’s a fine idea to see another project like the B26 come to light, that was a labour of love and wasn’t short on the details or "Legs"<o:p></o:p>
as it’s a keeper , i would much rather participate in one classy bird than see a bunch of quickies take wing and not be " keepers " .<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Maybe a discussion about bringing to life an obscure beautiful and non viable payware project can be discussed, even the busy boys we are can spare an hour or two now and then to contribute to the cause and be left with something to be proud of . <o:p></o:p>
I cant see taking another week off after doing so at Christmas, fun though <o:p></o:p>
it may be to compete, i think i would be pissing off a bunch of clients. <o:p></o:p>

[cheezyflier]

sounded very exciting! one day i hope to have the pc and software to make a plane.

your idea got me thinking, i wonder if all the developers who frequent the outhouse were to team up on a single project, i wonder what they could accomplish? something pretty awesome i think.
maybe that could be an idea someday, for the donationware bin.

[Boomer]

I think where the issue is that most people are reading this thread from the perspective of "whats in it for me".

I may be wrong here but I believe the purpose of this competition is to allow the devs to go H2H in a manner of speaking with the reward being kudos & told ya so's.
I believe that in the end the community at large will be graced with an exceptional model or two but not with a plethora of great new aircraft.

Paul, you got a list of helos presently being worked on? I would be interested in seeing it.

[Brett_Henderson]

I love a challenge.. but it takes me a week just to get a set of texture blanks ready for working :wiggle: .. with all the alphas and what-not... I'd be good for bumping the grading curve.. :wavey:

[Lionheart]

Hey Chuck,

Sounds like you, Bill Wommack and myself are in the same boat by way of joining in.

BASys,

Ok, you are making the helo, the rest are making birds. :d (Anything that flies, which if Felix wishes to challenge, then yes, red bricks and large boulders can be included but will require launch mechanisms such as travelliers, or what ever those big slingshot things are called).



The entire inspiration behind this is iPod. At iTunes, there are perhaps 2 thousand little programs you can get for the iPod and iPhone, half are free, half payware. I see the success of the iPhone and iPod to be these cool programs.

I see this in the same way with FS... With FS9, FS8, etc, we were able to crank out some cool planes fairly fast. With FSX, a plethera of various additions were required by devs to introduce into their model making work flow.

With such a 'contest' or race or competition, we can see how making 'basic' planes can be done in quick order.

What this would do is bring back some 'simplicity' into making models. We have become overly complex in making planes, down to modelling dust on the carpet, bolts hidden under the panels, taking a year to make a plane when we could be making fun quick planes quite easily. We have gone from fun to 'work camps' grueling under whips, only to be oppressed by rivet counters.

This is to break down that 'perfection' wall that has been formed, and bring back some fun into the 'plane making' side of FS....

:d


Simple... Quick and simple.


Bill

[Brett_Henderson]

your idea got me thinking, i wonder if all the developers who frequent the outhouse were to team up on a single project, i wonder what they could accomplish? something pretty awesome i think.
maybe that could be an idea someday, for the donationware bin.<!-- / message -->


I've worket with Alrot on a few projects (though, when we put our heads together, it's pretty much a good start on a rock pile)..

It does take the stress off... not so much as it makes it easier.. it's like you can slow down, and not stew about the project getting stagnant..

I'd LOVE to see what a whole team could come up with (if we didn't kill each other)..

[Chuck_Jodry-VJPL]

I see your point Bill , it would be a nice break from reality .. but ..:faint:i is too busy for fun

[MCDesigns]

I'm TOTALLY with Chuck on this.:amen:

While I totally commend the spirit of the challenge, to motivate users to get out the design program and dig in because they have new inspiration, I don't see the point of producing a basic aircraft that no one will use or want to use.

Personally I like the 'perfection wall" and feel more need to take it further

I do like the idea of showing the steps and what it takes for those wanting to take up designing aircraft.


What this would do is bring back some 'simplicity' into making models. We have become overly complex in making planes, down to modelling dust on the carpet, bolts hidden under the panels, taking a year to make a plane when we could be making fun quick planes quite easily. We have gone from fun to 'work camps' grueling under whips, only to be oppressed by rivet counters.

Unless you are doing it for yourself (which should be the main motivation for freeware), then what is the point as this is what users want, not basic aircraft. BUT if you are doing it for yourself, then the "work camp" is your own doing.:typing:

[Kiwikat]

I'd LOVE to see what a whole team could come up with (if we didn't kill each other)..

That would actually be a pretty cool idea... get many of the devs who visit here together for a freeware project. Though I kind of doubt it would ever happen, it is fun to think about :cool:

[kilo delta]

Sounds like a fantastic idea,Bill :applause:




*cough*.....build an F-4 Phantom, please....*cough*:whistle::engel016:

[FelixFFDS]

I like Bill's idea - this is an INCENTIVE to those of us who want to build models, but lack the discipline. As I see it, it's NOT meant to produce the latest, greatest and grandest of super-detailed models, but a quick test of one's resolve and persistence to create a working model.

THere are many models that "need" flightsim visibility.

Yes, a Chuck Jodry, Lionheart, etc etc can whip out a really good model in one week, but how about the aspiring hobbysist? What can we do in a week? Basically, it also helps us mentally organize ourselves.

Inspector Poly likes it!

[N2056]

It sounds interesting, and if I were not already engaged in assorted projects I'd be in...but there's too much on the plate right now :weightlifter:

[IanP]

One thing FSX is majorly, seriously, missing, is decent AI aircraft. What about a whole bunch of those, rather than more user aircraft? ;)

Ian P.

[mike_cyul]

A great idea, truly. I'm just in the same boat as many - can barely find the time to do what I do, much less add more. Don't let the idea die, though.


Mike

[Milton Shupe]

One thing FSX is majorly, seriously, missing, is decent AI aircraft. What about a whole bunch of those, rather than more user aircraft? ;)

Ian P.

This AI thing is also a great idea as to quality of aircraft, :ernae: and answers a lot of the concerns expressed. However, the final products would have to drop the VC's.

Meanwhile, since I am restricted to FS9 tools, I can sit on the sidelines and cheer. :applause:

[MCDesigns]

One thing FSX is majorly, seriously, missing, is decent AI aircraft. What about a whole bunch of those, rather than more user aircraft? ;)

Ian P.

Now that is a great idea and useful as well. If this becomes the challenge and goes well, then we could always do this again with user aircraft and a longer time limit. Think of it as baby steps, LOL.

[Henry]

This AI thing is also a great idea as to quality of aircraft, :ernae: and answers a lot of the concerns expressed. However, the final products would have to drop the VC's.

Meanwhile, since I am restricted to FS9 tools, I can sit on the sidelines and cheer. :applause:
Milt i will supply the tools :wavey:
LOL
i have them all just dont know what to do with them
i still think its great idea
just needs refining
H

[Wozza]

1 week !!! it takes me that long to work out If I m getting up today or staying in bed :sleep:

How about a 3mth G-max/3dmax vers FSDS comp :) set up a team for each program,also how you going to police the you used spare parts to build that :D
1 week :faint:
Wozza

[Piglet]

I already build one plane a week. And have fun doing it!:costumes:

[X_eidos2]

Once there was an advertising studio that had this sign posted by the front desk, "Time, Quality, Price, pick any two" I think such a sign could be applied to this contest.

I think I understand what Bill's goal is in having such a contest, but I still don't understand who the "they" are that he's trying to impress with the statement, "You can build a complete FSX plane in a week."

It used to be said that it was impossible for a human to run a mile in under 4 minutes. Then someone did and shortly after that a bunch of other runners did as well. Now it's so common that no one even notices when it's done these days. But what advantage is it to a runner, knowing that someone else has run the mile in under 4 minutes?

I would have to say that I'm one of those people who says that it's impossible to build a quality FSX plane model in a week. Suppose Bill has his contest and out of 6 entries, one does it. All it does is show that it can be done. I don't see how that will help anyone build models for FSX. It might actually have a negative effect in discouraging people from starting to model because they quickly realize they're not as fast as someone else. Of the hundreds of planes and ships that I've downloaded over the years, never have I considered how long it took to build to be a deciding factor regarding whether or not I should get the model.

[Tuor2112]

How about a 'hot potato' project where modelers have the design for a week or so to work on then hand it on to the next guy. The design would evolve as it was built each designer posting W.I.P shots. Perhaps it could be a friendly competition of sorts between the GMAX'ers and FSDS'ers to design a fictional racer or something. Might end up fairly unique looking!

[Lionheart]

I have done alot of planes that I never finished.. I call them Gmax sketches.. I'll start a plane, rough shape, put it in FS, and sometimes stop there.. Some dont even make it to FS.

All one has to do is make a shape, paint it with textures, cut out the parts, animate them, export to FSX, tune the airfiles for that plane, install gauges, install soundfile from another plane, done.....


Most of these were done in an evening.. The Spinner was high detail.. done in 2 weeks.. But very high detail.. (For me anyways). The shuttle craft was later textured.