Question re carrier ops

[expat]

Didn't know about this site until spotting just now in the Screenshot thread: http://www.fsxcarrierops.com/boats.htm

Many - not all - of the downloads indicate that the ships are "static." However, examining the files shows that they are models rather than scenery. I always understood that only the former were moving/driveable - essentially AI - and only the latter stayed planted in one spot - essentially airports and therefore could have AFCADs and AI aircraft landing on them. I understand you can make AI ships stay in one place (fly/sail somewhere else and back at 3am technique) but you still can't add AFCADs/AI planes to them. What am I missing and have others registered here and used any of the add ons?

[Navy Chief]

Didn't know about this site until spotting just now in the Screenshot thread: http://www.fsxcarrierops.com/boats.htm

Many - not all - of the downloads indicate that the ships are "static." However, examining the files shows that they are models rather than scenery. I always understood that only the former were moving/driveable - essentially AI - and only the latter stayed planted in one spot - essentially airports and therefore could have AFCADs and AI aircraft landing on them. I understand you can make AI ships stay in one place (fly/sail somewhere else and back at 3am technique) but you still can't add AFCADs/AI planes to them. What am I missing and have others registered here and used any of the add ons?


With regards to "AI", I have never figured out to create AI flight plans, etc.. Been involved with flight simming since 2002, and AI stuff has always confused me. NC

[rcbarend]

You can use an external addon like AI-Carriers by Lamont Clark.
File aicarriers2.zip, o.a. at flightsim.com (freeware). Requires Java runtime installed on your PC !

This easily lets you place an aircraft carrier (defined in the Boats folder) e.g 5 nmiles ahead of you.
Via the same menu, you can make the carrier move with a predefined speed (configurable).

So you don't need to define AI "flight"plans for it; such an ship started with AICarriers is also visible on TrafficRadar gauges.


Whether such a such is intended as "pilotable" (so you can "fly" it yourself) depends; only if the download contains a panel and aircraft.cfg/.air file; if not (the download probably contains a sim.cfg file) it's intented to be used as AI: either in a flightplan or via AICarriers.

If the carrier is defined in a .bgl, it's only static scenery, and can't move ; nor is it visible in a Traffic Radar.

Rob

[expat]

If the carrier is defined in a .bgl, it's only static scenery, and can't move ; nor is it visible in a Traffic Radar.

Rob, thanks. That has always been my understanding. Strange that the downloads are titled "static" (useful for MP) but don't contain scenery bgls, but instead models as for the moving cv's. I of course use AI carriers, carrier tracks etc a lot but have always hung on to my old Alphasim Big E to use in FSX (no real problems) so I can set up my own retro AI traffic to fly out from e.g. Cecil Field to the boat offshore and also have carrier AFCADs set up so there are parked and active planes on the carrier. Would be good to have some different fixed (i.e. bgl) carriers to use like this in FSX.

[dhasdell]

I've been using AICarriers with some success, but I have had similar troubles with some of the ships I have added. Escorts appear happily enough in the right place in relation to the carrier, but get left behind when the carrier sets off. CV6 USS Enterprise seems to be stationary, too.

[Navy Chief]

So you don't need to define AI "flight"plans for it; such an ship started with AICarriers is also visible on TrafficRadar gauges.Rob

Whart I was referring to, is having AI A/C flying in the pattern (which I don't even know if that is possible). If so, that would really add realism to carrier ops.

Is such a thing possible? NC

[Felixthreeone]

Not that I am aware of. AI works utilizing great-circle routing from one airport to another. With a static carrier, and an AI fde designed for carrier ops, AI can function. With a moving carrier, however, the default AI engine cannot calculate the moving carriers position, and will therefore not be able to fly to it from a land base.

[Navy Chief]

Not that I am aware of. AI works utilizing great-circle routing from one airport to another. With a static carrier, and an AI fde designed for carrier ops, AI can function. With a moving carrier, however, the default AI engine cannot calculate the moving carriers position, and will therefore not be able to fly to it from a land base.

Too bad they couldn't begin the flight from the carrier, and simply do pattern ops....NC

That would be so cool! NC

[Felixthreeone]

Too bad they couldn't begin the flight from the carrier, and simply do pattern ops....NC

That would be so cool! NC
....well, that they can do. But, only from a static carrier. Back in the days of fs9, the original alphasim enterprise came with an F-14, S-3, and an A-6; all three types would launch and recover from the carrier. Those with knowledge of AI programming, like me, wrote flight plans and designed afcads to allow those aircraft to launch from a land base and fly to the boat. The fde's that those aircraft used, however, were a bit out of place on land because as soon as they would land they would stop in a matter of feet (due to being set up for the carrier) and the wings would fold. So, if having AI aircraft flying pattern on a static boat is what you are after, it is very do-able. I have not been able to crack the moving carrier dilemma yet nor do I think it is possible. But maybe a scenery-compiled file could be made for the AI carrier itself....

[seawing]

I've been using AICarriers with some success, but I have had similar troubles with some of the ships I have added. Escorts appear happily enough in the right place in relation to the carrier, but get left behind when the carrier sets off. CV6 USS Enterprise seems to be stationary, too.

Well, you should check in the sim.cfg file in the boats-section's subfolders that the speeds of all the ships you want to use are of the same value. Most that you can download are set to "50". I haven't figured out what unit this is, but 50 gives the ships roughly 30 kts - 30 equals roughly 20 kts. When all speeds are equal no ship will be left behind!

Seawing

[expat]

Those with knowledge of AI programming, like me, wrote flight plans and designed afcads to allow those aircraft to launch from a land base and fly to the boat.

Re simple, custom, AI from carriers, this has been possible at least for me since around 2005 and works perfectly fine in FSX. Screenie taken in FSX a few seconds ago somewhere on Yankee Station . .

[expat]

Just never, ever get tired of this stuff . .

[Navy Chief]

Re simple, custom, AI from carriers, this has been possible at least for me since around 2005 and works perfectly fine in FSX. Screenie taken in FSX a few seconds ago somewhere on Yankee Station . .

So this is on a static carrier vs moving? NC

[expat]

So this is on a static carrier vs moving? NC

Navy Chief,

That is correct. It is the old Alphasim Big E off Yankee Station. You can set up your favorite AI aircraft to leave a parking spot on the deck, take off, fly around the pattern and land. I have them doing pattern touch and goes - totally unrealistic - but effective in creating a sense of carrier ops. Or you can have planes fly out from a Naval Air Station to the cv, do touch and goes or land and park. With AI, the world is your oyster.

I have never gone in for any of the big packages that have airliner and GA everywhere. I make my own traffic files up from scratch, mostly with either retro USN (SEA or Cold War era) or a few GA planes around airports I am familiar with. Too much AI and it starts to affect frame rates.

What you might do to get started is find some freeware scenery, e.g. some of the military airbases come with AI planes and traffic files. You just need to drop the folders in the places indicated and you should then be able to study the AI behavior. Then, you would want to get a simple utility, TTools by Lee Swordy. This allows you to decompile the traffic files and play around with the airports, aircraft and flight times.

expat

[Navy Chief]

What you might do to get started is find some freeware scenery, e.g. some of the military airbases come with AI planes and traffic files. You just need to drop the folders in the places indicated and you should then be able to study the AI behavior. Then, you would want to get a simple utility, TTools by Lee Swordy. This allows you to decompile the traffic files and play around with the airports, aircraft and flight times.

expat


Thanks for the suggestions. Unfortunately, the TTools program, and everything associated with creating/compiling those files, has completely eluded my understanding. Maybe "someday", if I could get online with someone (i.e Skype) I could go step by step in learning how to create AI flight plans. But that would be the only way I will understand it all! NC

[rcbarend]

Well, you should check in the sim.cfg file in the boats-section's subfolders that the speeds of all the ships you want to use are of the same value. Most that you can download are set to "50". I haven't figured out what unit this is, but 50 gives the ships roughly 30 kts - 30 equals roughly 20 kts. When all speeds are equal no ship will be left behind!

Seawing

"50" is the defined max. groundspeed of the carrier, in Knots.
AICarriers uses appr. half this value when you command the carrier Forward, so 25 Knots groundspeed. Don´t know why.

And yes, if you want the formation staying the same when you command the Formation Forward, the Speed and Accelleration factor in the sim.cfg's must be equal for all ships defined in the Formation.

Rob

[Navy Chief]

"50" is the defined max. groundspeed of the carrier, in Knots.
AICarriers uses appr. half this value when you command the carrier Forward, so 25 Knots groundspeed. Don´t know why.

And yes, if you want the formation staying the same when you command the Formation Forward, the Speed and Accelleration factor in the sim.cfg's must be equal for all ships defined in the Formation.

Rob

Maybe I am mistaken (usually am), but are you saying it would be possible to alter the groundspeed of (say for example Javier's Carrier), so AI aircraft could be put in a pattern flight status?

NC

[seawing]

Maybe I am mistaken (usually am), but are you saying it would be possible to alter the groundspeed of (say for example Javier's Carrier), so AI aircraft could be put in a pattern flight status?

NC

Yes, you can alter the speed of any boat used in AIcarriers! You just have to set a new speed in its sim.cfg. I didn't know about the "half speed issue" and judging by what I see in the sim I would say it's actually about 0.6 of the set groundspeed, but anyway...

If I am right (which might not be the case), the problem about aircraft flying pattern on moving carriers is, that the carrier with the help of AIcarriers is itself practically an AI aircraft - or actually a boat. So the point is that an AI object would need to fly a pattern on another AI object. I guess that' where the capabilities of FSX end ... unfortunatly. Though if you do have some new ideas, I guess we would all be very happy!

Seawing

[Navy Chief]

Yes, you can alter the speed of any boat used in AIcarriers! You just have to set a new speed in its sim.cfg. I didn't know about the "half speed issue" and judging by what I see in the sim I would say it's actually about 0.6 of the set groundspeed, but anyway...

If I am right (which might not be the case), the problem about aircraft flying pattern on moving carriers is, that the carrier with the help of AIcarriers is itself practically an AI aircraft - or actually a boat. So the point is that an AI object would need to fly a pattern on another AI object. I guess that' where the capabilities of FSX end ... unfortunatly. Though if you do have some new ideas, I guess we would all be very happy!

Seawing

Unfortunately I do not have any ideas on how to accomplish such a task, but it certainly would add realism. And maybe someday it would be possible (perhaps not in FSX, but another sim) to do carrier ops, surrounded by AI a/c. Of course the same thing IS accomplished with multiplayer, but it has been YEARS since I even attempted MP. NC

[rcbarend]

Maybe I am mistaken (usually am), but are you saying it would be possible to alter the groundspeed of (say for example Javier's Carrier), so AI aircraft could be put in a pattern flight status?

NC
Yes.
In fact, I "misuse" AICarriers to generate AI space carriers flying at 500 Knots at 150 nMile altitude :)

Rob

[SkippyBing]

"50" is the defined max. groundspeed of the carrier, in Knots.
AICarriers uses appr. half this value when you command the carrier Forward, so 25 Knots groundspeed. Don´t know why.

I think the max speed defined in the sim.cfg is actually in MPH not knots, presumably because they're ground vehicles and have the same cfg as a truck!

[dhasdell]

I thought that TTools was for FS9, and that trying to use an FS9 traffic.bgl in FSX would crash everything in sight. Is there a new version for FSX?

[expat]

True, TTools was made for FS9 but it works without any problems just the same way in FSX.

What you need to watch out for is dropping a FS9 traffic file bgl into FSX, which can wipe out the rest of your FSX traffic. There is however a simple traffic file converter that you can first covert a traffic bgl to FSX format and then decompile wit TTools and away you go.

[dhasdell]

OK, so to be quite clear on this, I can use TTools as usual with FSX, compiling the airfields, aircraft and flightplan .txt files as long as they are drawn from what is in my FSX and the result will work? The only thing I can't do is drag an existing FS9 traffic.bgl into FSX?

[Victory103]

Suggest using AIFP2 for all your FS9 to FSX traffic conversions. I used TTools in the past with FS9 but AIFP actually has more functions and one can do more with the .bgl. You can also set the paths you need so the .bgl goes into the Scenery\World\scenery folder.

Any small changes with a traffic bgl, I can save the file set as .txt, make my changes with Notepad and re-compile with AIFP2.

[Navy Chief]

It's all Greek to me!

NC