A Question!

[Worthless]

Probably a dumb question and that....

Can anyone suggest if a solution exists for this....

Mission Builder has a setting for AC speed. Sometimes I find that an aircraft (AI or Player) has a limited speed range. It won't go higher than say....180mph max. Even thought the Player AC ( as Player ) flies faster in QC or FF, Mission Builder won't let me set the speed higher.

So, is there a simple value in the AC files that controls this, that I can alter, that will permit a higher speed setting in MB?

[Rami]

Worthless,

Yes. I'll answer when I get home.

[Jagdflieger]

Worthless,

As Rami has to work and I'm now retired and living the life of Riley, I'll beat him to the punch while he's slaving away at school.

Go to your DP file for the airplane and look at the [MISC_DATA] section.

You'll find that the AI speed parameters are controlled with this data. I believe that the speed used here is metric and in kilometers per hour (KPH).

[MISC_DATA]
unit_family=1
category=1
allegiance=3
max_group_size=8
min_speed=240
cruise_speed=405
max_speed=607
min_alt=50
cruise_alt=5893
max_alt=8839
entered_service=11/1/40
crew=1

The KPH v. the MPH issue often causes low speed for AI aircraft. Some of this data in CFS 2 is metric and some is in standard measurement. Feet elevation v. meters altitude and KPH v. MPH. I guess it's kind of like NASA mis-programming one of the Mars probes several years ago causing it to crash into Mars due to differences in metric v. standard measurement. How two different measurement systems got into one flight sim is beyond me.

[Blood_Hawk23]

Worthless,

Yes. I'll answer when I get home.

NO DON'T!!! You'll give all of our secrets away. :icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol:

the answer is the DP entry.

this is from Gary Aumaugher design notes for the Parseval Balloon but it will help explain.

"Yes, I know this is wierd but it works.
During development, change the balloon's dp file MISC section to read

[MISC_DATA]
;development settings
min_speed=65
cruise_speed=140
max_speed=177
;fly mission settings
;min_speed=18
;cruise_speed=23
;max_speed=35

Set the speed to 59 knots during the mission development but do not attempt to
run the mission. After the mission development is complete, search the mission
.mis file for all the ",59,,0,0,1" as below:
waypoint.0=1,1,N49* 55.06',E2* 39.37',+3999,,,,59,,0,0,1
and change to ",10,,0,0,1" as below:
waypoint.0=1,1,N49* 55.06',E2* 39.37',+3999,,,,10,,0,0,1
Change the balloon MISC section back to

[MISC_DATA]
;development settings
;min_speed=65
;cruise_speed=140
;max_speed=177
;fly mission settings
min_speed=18
cruise_speed=23
max_speed=35"

"ALL SPEEDS ARE IN KPH. NOT MPH"

you probly wonder why he did that. the answer will explain itself quite clearly if you don't do this. but the true answer is that CFS2 can't simulate "lighter than air" vehicles. so to give the apperance of a floating balloon you have to trick it.

you can't work with the lower speeds in MB. if you try it will lockup. asking for the values to be between to numbers. (lets say 59 and 19). even if you enter a number between these values it won't work. that is why you have to use the larger values in MB.

the [MISC_DATA] section of the DP is where MB gets its info. alot of people ignore this when the make DPs for aircraft. lets brake one down and then you'll get what MB is looking at.

NOTE: all values for speed and alt are meteric.

[MISC_DATA]
unit_family=1 class of object (unit_family=1 - Fighter (default))
category=5 type of object (Category=1 - aircraft fighter) in this case a bomber
allegiance=1 Country of origin in this case Britian
max_group_size=1 max number in group
min_speed=65 for aircraft this is the stall speed. In MB you can't enter a speed lower than this
cruise_speed=140 Kind of a stop gap between the min and max
max_speed=177 The Max speed that MB will let you place an aircraft
min_alt=15 The "HARD DECK" also the lowest alt you can place an aircraft. in METERS
cruise_alt=762 another stop gap
max_alt=1419 The max alt you can place an aircraft. in meters
entered_service=1/1/14 i've only seen the effect player aircraft in missions and campaigns
crew=2 the numbe of "CHUTEs" you see when you shot it down


the ones in red are the "Envelope" that the AI will try to fly in. Now your wingman will go outside the envelope to keep up with you. but any AI left on its own will try to stay in it. thats one of the reasons why you'll see aircraft crash in dogfights or bombing runs. its not "THE" reason but its one.

in MB these values are your MINs and MAXes. and that effects your unit placement. now static objects don't use this info. ships and vehicles will use some. they won't use the alt obviously.

most of this i've been learning while doing my Belgian campaigns and the AI upgrades for the aerocrates planes. Cody has alot of it in the HANDBOOK.

I hope that this explains things well enough. I kinda turned it into an AI handeling lesson. sorry.

If you have questions on it please ask and i'll try to expain it clearly or in better detail.

Till later
John

[Blood_Hawk23]

Sorry Jagdflieger,

i was working on this when you were.

actualy i had to redo it because i took to long and got logged out.

[Rami]

Worthless,

There's not much to add to this, except when I do mine, I go onto various websites to make sure I can find the stall speed, cruising speed, cruising altitude, and operational ceiling to get the MB characteristics as close as possible. The main mistake I think people make when doing .dp files is they list the numbers in either miles per hour or knots, rather than kilometers.

However, as Jagdflieger said, in Mission builder, the speed is calculated in knots. Very confusing indeed.

One important note to remember; if you do modify the files for your own use building a campaign or mission you're going to release publicly, you must include the modified .dp files, so that way the mission will work right on another PC.

Here's a mod I just did now for Tango's Bf-110c I've been using...

[MISC_DATA]
unit_family=1
category=5
allegiance=2
max_group_size=8
min_speed=134
cruise_speed=385
max_speed=561
min_alt=50
cruise_alt=6000
max_alt=10500
entered_service=1/1/39
crew=2

[Worthless]

Wow! Thanks gang. I was pretty confused at first. MPH, KMPH, Knots....holy moly. Now I see it. I was looking in the DP all the time but didn't realize the [MISC DATA] info was KMPH. And MB uses Knots. So there I was try to make changes based on MPH. Hopeless!

Never fear Rami, if I ever get so bold as to upload I'll explain any changes. I was afraid I had messed up in playing around with the Air File for Paul Straney's vw_hudson. The dang thing kept rolling me over into the ground. Got that fixed but the speed in MB was still low, I thought. I figured I had fat fingered something.
Everything I've read has the Hudson Mk l with a top speed of 240mph or 397 kmph. So, when I was trying to set the speed in MB and it was maxing out at 200 while the DP [MISC DATA] showed 336 max, I got all bumfuzzelled up. Just a case of apples and oranges. I guess the DP wasn't so far off after all.

[Blood_Hawk23]

Sorry for any confusion Worthless,

I have and excel doc to convert speeds. It will do all three. Knots, MPH and Km/H. You can enter any of the three and get all of the others converted.

80187

Just enter the speeds in the "WHITE" boxes.

Its real simple to use. Remember "DO NOT SAVE" after you use it.

I have an ofd version for anyone who uses openoffice. Sorry I don't have one done for Altitude. If I do i'll add it to this one and rename it.

[Cody Coyote]

I thought I had a good handle on this but after reading this thread now I am starting to get confused.

Jagd believes that the speeds shown in the [MISC_DATA] are metric, i.e. kilometers per hour (KPH). That is what I believed too.

Blood_Hawk, your quote from Gary Aumaugher refers to knots per hour. Then later you state "NOTE: all values for speed and alt are meteric." I assume you meant "metric", meaning kilometers per hour. It can't be both knots per hour and kilometers per hour so what are we saying here? Is Gary right and the speeds are in knots, or is Jagd (and a bunch of us) right and it's kilometers?

[Rami]

Cody Coyote and others,

MISC DATA: Km/h for speed, meters for height.

Mission Builder: Knots for speed, feet for height.

Yes, it is confusing! :isadizzy:

[Worthless]

Thanks BH, this is a nice conversion chart. Very helpful.

[Blood_Hawk23]

I thought I had a good handle on this but after reading this thread now I am starting to get confused.

Jagd believes that the speeds shown in the [MISC_DATA] are metric, i.e. kilometers per hour (KPH). That is what I believed too.

Blood_Hawk, your quote from Gary Aumaugher refers to knots per hour. Then later you state "NOTE: all values for speed and alt are meteric." I assume you meant "metric", meaning kilometers per hour. It can't be both knots per hour and kilometers per hour so what are we saying here? Is Gary right and the speeds are in knots, or is Jagd (and a bunch of us) right and it's kilometers?


sorry i was thinking meter and metric when i typed Meteric. Ooops!!!

yes MB its knots

BUT!!!!!!! you can set MB to use metric. go into settings then under units of measure select "METRIC" now you will see it in Km/h and Meters. in MB. that may or may not help.

when MB saves the mission it will in knots in the mission.txt file. now i haven't tried creating a mission with MB using metric. so i don't know if the text doc will change or not. might be something to checkout.


Too clarify (until proven otherwise)

---DPedit and DPs are all Metric.

---Mission Builder and its text files are in Knots and feet.

there are other areas that get confusing but i won't bring them up here. we are all :isadizzy: confused enough for one day:icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol:

[Jagdflieger]

Isn't this all a hoot!

I guess we have Napoleon Bonaparte and his conversion of Europe and most of the world to metric to thank for this fine mess.

[sc7500]

I Blame Lazy Americans who are slow to embrace change.....

http://science.howstuffworks.com/why-us-not-on-metric-system.htm

[skylane]

Since we are talking about speed here, I have a related question:

With some aircraft, the wingmen cannot keep up with the speed of the player aircraft. You cruise along, and the wingmen start to lag behind.
Any idea what could be the cause for this? I tried putting a higher maximum and cruise speed into the dp, as discussed above, but that doesn't fix it.

skylane

[Rami]

Skylane,

First, you have to remember the speed you set the flight in Mission Builder...but I know specifically what you're referring to.

Morton's conversion of David Copley's P-38j was notorious for this problem of not keeping pace, until Pen32Win sent me files to fix the whole P-38 series, and provide a more accurate flight model. What other aircraft are causing these headaches for you?

[UncleTgt]

I tend to agree with Skylane, it's very easy for the player to max throttle & outstrip his own flight during the approach to combat. This applies to almost any a/c you choose.

My theory is the all AI use some of the auto pilot settings from the airfile - so they struggle with sudden changes in speed, always trying to stay at the dp file cruise speed until they're "in combat". They'll catch you up eventually, but it will take a long time ...

Of course once you're in a furball, it's very difficult to check on how your flight is doing vis a vis max speed/ speed changes & acceleration etc.:icon_lol:

Now, looking at the autopilot settings in the airfile just gives me a headache:isadizzy:

I know some of the auto pilot settings adjust AI flight behaviour, particularly air to ground. For instance, look at record 1203 "autopilot limits"

Some airfiles have TAS 1 bank limits set at +/-10 deg change settings - these a/c can't ground attack squat. Change it to +/-40 deg & you can get a significant change in behaviour

But there are sooo many Autopilot settings ...:mix-smi:

[Allen]

The Autopilot settings are used for that AI to land as well. I can make heads or tails out of any of it but I do know this.

[skylane]

The most recent case was with Akemi's Ki-61, but only at high altitude. I also had it with Thicko's Il-2.
Ok, I have to check the cruise speed in the dp again, maybe increasing this number helps.
I was thinking that maybe there is some speed information somewhere in the airfile that controls the cruise speed of the ai. Autopilot settings never came to my mind.
The information about the TAS 1setting and its effect on the ability to do ground attack is very interesting!

[The B24 Guy]

Hi All,

Don't forget that AI always have a full tank of gas and a full load of bombs and ammo.

This might affect the top speed some.

Regards,
B24Guy