Permission to broadcast, sir..

[Javis]

Imagine you are being approached by the producer of a TV documentary about a certain aircraft of which no real film footage exists. Therefore he wants to use clips from an FSX video that you once created about that very same aircraft. A.o. your FSX setup consists of REX, FEX, UTX, Orbx, etcx. Obviously the producer will need your consent and that of MS and the developer of the aircraft model in question to use clips of your FSX video in his documentary.

Question : will he also need permission from the devs of REX, FEX, UTX, Orbx, etcx ?....

I'd be very interested in any thoughts that you might have in this respect.

Thanks much on forehand !

Cheers,
Jan

[skyhawka4m]

I've actually had this train of thought to but in a different area...screenshots. I was asked by someone if I'd be willing to sell copies of my works but I've held off not knowing the legality of it.

[stovall]

Javis, in this day and age, consulting an attorney expert in copyright law would probably be the best. Since this is a documentary producer and it will be used on TV, there is money involved. Having a legal opinion from an expert should help considerably. The name of the game is money. When money is involved as you know things get sticky.

[Dangerousdave26]

You need to read the ELUA agreements you signed from each of those products. If they do not specifically say anything about the use of images and video from in game footage then there is no concern.

Since you made the video you own the copy write for it your clearance would be all that is needed.

If any of the listed elements are visible in the video then crediting them is a nice thing to do.

[Javis]

Thanks for the tips, gents ! :salute:

The producer already has an attorney looking into it but i believe it is their first encounter with something like FS and its possible legal/copyright mumbo jumbo. For the moment the documentary will only be broadcast via one regional TV station and the internal TV network of a museum, but the're looking for to enter it in this year's International Documentary Filmfestival.

No EULA comes with France VFR products and the REX EULA purely concerns 'the software product' itself. No statement of any kind that concerns 'the display via media' of the software product can be found as part of this EULA. I.e. there's no mention whatsoever that the use of REX in FSX videos is prohibited.

Btw, if it *would* be prohibited wouldn't all the FS9 and FSX videos that are created with REX and are available to view at the Utube make them all illegal ?

Btw2, for those interested, the docu is about one particular C-47/DC-3 that entered the USAAF as 44-76787 in 1945 but spend most of her life flying for Air France as F-BAIF. After being phased out she spend a few years on a pedestal at the gate of a Belgium museum whereafter she was transported to the dutch 'Wings of liberty' museum at Best,Brabant. A few years ago she was chosen to play a big part in the dutch musical 'Soldaat van Oranje' (Soldier of Orange) based on the movie of the same name. During transport however she became completely stuck underneath a bridge and was severly damaged, most probabely beyond repair.

Suzanna van Leendert, dutch movie producer and director wants to tell the story of this particular C-47. One of the many.

Here's a little clip : http://freedom43tv.com/2012/10/18/dutch-film-crew-in-oklahoma/

Any more tips about the use of videoclips of FSX/Thirdparty software in a professional documentary are very welcome.

Thanks much again !

Cheers,
Jan

[stovall]

Jan, just a quick follow up, the key here is if there is money involved. Making money using a copyrighted product is most generally where the problem is. A TV production makes money for a TV station that has advertising. When money is part of the deal things get sticky.

As for You Tube videos with copyright aircraft and say, REX visuals there is no money involved. The videos are free and not charged for. Here no money is involved. This is a very simplified explanation. This is why I suggested a copyright attorney. Good luck with the project.

Thanks for the link to the video.

[X_eidos2]

About a year ago I looked into the possibility of setting up a website to sell digital artwork for use in digital picture frames. One of the things I was most interested in was using screenshots and FSX videos. My inquiries to Microsoft about getting a license to publish images made using FSX got directed to the Flight development team and since they were in the process of getting shut down at the time I never got any kind of reply from them.

I found out that it's not so much a copyright issue as it is an issue of making derivative artwork. Artwork that is "derived" from the use of FSX for commercial purposes is not allowed in the FSX EULA. So you can make all the FSX videos you want as long as they're done as a hobby. Now there are at least two, maybe three studios that make FSX videos for promotional purposes for FSX developers. How they skirt around the EULA restrictions on derivative art would be interesting to learn.

I've read that others looking into the possible selling of screenshots have given up on getting permission from Microsoft and are focused on using Prepare3D since it doesn't have such restrictions. Of course this wouldn't help if the producer just wants to use your video that's already been created.

I hope you have success with your project, but I suspect that what will happen is that your producer will find the legal uncertainties too difficult to overcome in using an already made FSX video. There are tools available to export an FSX model into a 3d file format that can then be imported into a 3d modeling program which can then be used to render a CGI scene. To have this to work, all you would need is permission from the FSX model maker and/or publisher. Going from a hobby project to a commercial project makes getting permissions a top priority.

[huub vink]

This is typically a subject over which a judge needs to make a decision. But when I was your attorney I wouldn't ask the judge whether he really thinks I need permission from Microsoft to publish an article which I wrote in MSWord.....

Copyright has its limits as well! You have paid for it! For this money you have bought some rights as well!

Cheers,
Huub

[jeansy]

i wouldnt be surprised if several devs would charge you for the permissions on such a venture

[huub vink]

I'm sure everybody will make claims. However I have serious doubts whether these are legitimate. Do I need the permission from an architect when I publish an image from a building designed by that architect? I the worst case I perhaps need permission from the owner.

Perhaps on the other side of the pond a judge would agree with these claims, but in the country from Jan, some judges still have common sense....

Cheers,
Huub

[peter12213]

What if it was a Youtube video for instance, with no rights. Just someones upload of a payware scenery/weather and customer aircraft say, who could tell apart from a decerning few once it has been edited by the actual editing team from the TV show. Surely as long as the uploader makes or says this video can be used or reposted to anyplace by anyone then that should be legal right? Personally I'd just want my name in the credits lol.:salute:

[William Njurmi]

Well, if I was a FS addon producer, I would take it as a free commericial for my product if I would see it in such a positive connection.

[Javis]

Thanks very much, guys ! Very helpfull and good food for thought.

The part about this project being a commercial venture or a hobby is particularly interesting. One thing is clear, if someone is looking for making millions of dollars off a movie or documentary it wouldn't be on a subject like this, would it. The ironic thing is that it will probabely be highly unlikely that any of the devs involved will ever get to even know about the very existance of this particular documentary, let alone that there are a few seconds of footage that shows a DC-3 model flying thru the clouds... IF they'd notice it concerns a computer generated image and not the real thing in the first place..

( i have of course highly endangered this supposition right here and now... :eek: )

The FSX video clips are made by Tufun, i'm sure you have all seen examples of his superb workmanship, and, as per Suzanne's wish, he made them in black and white and look 'old' by adding a bit of grain and scratches. She told me that at first her editor thought he was looking at real world footage.. Both she and her crew didn't know anything about our precious flight simulator world and are very amazed by and pleased with Tufun's videos. Wouldn't it be extremely sad to have to call the whole thing off just because one or more FSX devs wouldn't appreciate their product to be shown in a TV documentary for a couple of seconds.....

@ X-eidos2: could you name one (or more) of these studios that make FSX promo videos ?

There is of course no doubt that Tufun's FSX videos are made as a hobby because it actually IS his hobby and he did not get payed.

@ Huub : yes, it will certainly remain to be seen IF a dev would go as far as take a possible case like this to court here in Holland if he would have any legal leg to stand on... F.i. i just stumbled over a post re MS copyright that says that, in order to be able to read the FSX EULA you have to open the package, thus rendering it non-returnable to the shop....

But Suzanne and her crew do not want to take the risk of course. As said earlier they'd like this documentary to take part in the International Documentary Festival ( IDFA. She has already won a few prizes with her TV docs )

Thank you all again for your thoughts and tips which i will forward to Suzanne. Her attorney, most probabely also unfamiliar with our virtual world of aviation, might well benefit from them.

Cheers,
Jan

[Dangerousdave26]

Once installed the copy of the EULA is in the Root FSX folder. Its named is Eula.html.

Here is the text from the English portion.

Of course the EULA will vary from country to country depending on their laws.


MICROSOFT SOFTWARE LICENSE TERMS

MICROSOFT FLIGHT SIMULATOR X ACCELERATION 1.0

These license terms are an agreement between Microsoft Corporation (or based on where you live, one of its affiliates) and you. Please read them. They apply to the software named above, which includes the media on which you received it, if any. The terms also apply to any Microsoft

· updates,

· supplements,

· Internet-based services, and

· support services

for this software, unless other terms accompany those items. If so, those terms apply.

By using the software, you accept these terms. If you do not accept them, do not use the software. Instead, return it to the retailer for a refund or credit. If you cannot obtain a refund there, contact Microsoft or the Microsoft affiliate serving your country for information about Microsoft’s refund policies. See www.microsoft.com/worldwide. In the United States and Canada, call (800) MICROSOFT or see www.microsoft.com/info/nareturns.htm.

If you comply with these license terms, you have the rights below for each license you acquire.
1. OVERVIEW.
a. Software. The software includes desktop application software.
b. License Model. The software is licensed on a per copy per device basis.
2. INSTALLATION AND USE RIGHTS.
a. Licensed Device. The licensed device is the device on which you use the software. You may install and use one copy of the software on the licensed device.
b. Portable Device. You may install another copy on a portable device for use by the single primary user of the licensed device.
c. Included Microsoft Programs. The software contains other Microsoft programs. The license terms with those programs apply to your use of them.
3. ADDITIONAL LICENSING REQUIREMENTS AND/OR USE RIGHTS.
a. Media Elements and Templates. You may copy and use images, clip art, animations, sounds, music, shapes, video clips and templates provided with the software and identified for such use in documents and projects that you create. You may distribute those documents and projects non-commercially. If you wish to use these media elements or templates for any other purpose, go to www.microsoft.com/permission to learn whether that use is allowed.
b. Additional Functionality. Microsoft may provide additional functionality for the software. Other license terms and fees may apply.
4. MANDATORY ACTIVATION. Your right to use this software is limited as described during installation, unless you activate it. This is to prevent its unlicensed use. You will not be able to continue using the software if you do not activate it. You can activate the software by Internet or telephone; Internet and telephone service charges may apply. Some changes to your computer components or the software may require you to reactivate the software. The software will remind you to activate until you do.
5. INTERNET-BASED SERVICES. Microsoft provides Internet-based services with the software. It may change or cancel them at any time. You may not use these services in any way that could harm them or impair anyone else’s use of them. You may not use the services to try to gain unauthorized access to any service, data, account or network by any means.
6. SCOPE OF LICENSE. The software is licensed, not sold. This agreement only gives you some rights to use the software. Microsoft reserves all other rights. Unless applicable law gives you more rights despite this limitation, you may use the software only as expressly permitted in this agreement. In doing so, you must comply with any technical limitations in the software that only allow you to use it in certain ways. You may not

· work around any technical limitations in the software;

· reverse engineer, decompile or disassemble the software, except and only to the extent that applicable law expressly permits, despite this limitation;

· make more copies of the software than specified in this agreement or allowed by applicable law, despite this limitation;

· publish the software for others to copy;

· rent, lease or lend the software; or

· use the software for commercial software hosting services.
7. BACKUP COPY. You may make one backup copy of the software. You may use it only to reinstall the software.
8. DOCUMENTATION. Any person that has valid access to your computer or internal network may copy and use the documentation for your internal, reference purposes.
9. EXPORT RESTRICTIONS. The software is subject to United States export laws and regulations. You must comply with all domestic and international export laws and regulations that apply to the software. These laws include restrictions on destinations, end users and end use. For additional information, see www.microsoft.com/exporting.
10. SUPPORT SERVICES. Microsoft provides support services for the software as described at www.support.microsoft.com/common/international.aspx.
11. ENTIRE AGREEMENT. This agreement (including the warranty below), and the terms for supplements, updates, Internet-based services and support services that you use, are the entire agreement for the software and support services.
12. APPLICABLE LAW.
a. United States. If you acquired the software in the United States, Washington state law governs the interpretation of this agreement and applies to claims for breach of it, regardless of conflict of laws principles. The laws of the state where you live govern all other claims, including claims under state consumer protection laws, unfair competition laws, and in tort.
b. Outside the United States. If you acquired the software in any other country, the laws of that country apply.
13. LEGAL EFFECT. This agreement describes certain legal rights. You may have other rights under the laws of your state or country. You may also have rights with respect to the party from whom you acquired the software. This agreement does not change your rights under the laws of your state or country if the laws of your state or country do not permit it to do so.
14. LIMITATION ON AND EXCLUSION OF DAMAGES. You can recover from Microsoft and its suppliers only direct damages up to the amount you paid for the software. You cannot recover any other damages, including consequential, lost profits, special, indirect or incidental damages.

This limitation applies to

· anything related to the software, services, content (including code) on third party Internet sites, or third party programs; and

· claims for breach of contract, breach of warranty, guarantee or condition, strict liability, negligence, or other tort to the extent permitted by applicable law.

It also applies even if

· repair, replacement or a refund for the software does not fully compensate you for any losses; or

· Microsoft knew or should have known about the possibility of the damages.

Some states do not allow the exclusion or limitation of incidental or consequential damages, so the above limitation or exclusion may not apply to you. They also may not apply to you because your country may not allow the exclusion or limitation of incidental, consequential or other damages.

************************************************** ********************************

LIMITED WARRANTY

A. LIMITED WARRANTY. If you follow the instructions, the software will perform substantially as described in the Microsoft materials that you receive in or with the software.

B. TERM OF WARRANTY; WARRANTY RECIPIENT; LENGTH OF ANY IMPLIED WARRANTIES. The limited warranty covers the software for one year after acquired by the first user. If you receive supplements, updates, or replacement software during that year, they will be covered for the remainder of the warranty or 30 days, whichever is longer. If the first user transfers the software, the remainder of the warranty will apply to the recipient.

To the extent permitted by law, any implied warranties, guarantees or conditions last only during the term of the limited warranty. Some states do not allow limitations on how long an implied warranty lasts, so these limitations may not apply to you. They also might not apply to you because some countries may not allow limitations on how long an implied warranty, guarantee or condition lasts.

C. EXCLUSIONS FROM WARRANTY. This warranty does not cover problems caused by your acts (or failures to act), the acts of others, or events beyond Microsoft’s reasonable control.

D. REMEDY FOR BREACH OF WARRANTY. Microsoft will repair or replace the software at no charge. If Microsoft cannot repair or replace it, Microsoft will refund the amount shown on your receipt for the software. It will also repair or replace supplements, updates and replacement software at no charge. If Microsoft cannot repair or replace them, it will refund the amount you paid for them, if any. You must uninstall the software and return any media and other associated materials to Microsoft with proof of purchase to obtain a refund. These are your only remedies for breach of the limited warranty.

E. CONSUMER RIGHTS NOT AFFECTED. You may have additional consumer rights under your local laws, which this agreement cannot change.

F. WARRANTY PROCEDURES. You need proof of purchase for warranty service.

1. United States and Canada. For warranty service or information about how to obtain a refund for software acquired in the United States and Canada, contact Microsoft at

· (800) MICROSOFT;

· Microsoft Customer Service and Support, One Microsoft Way, Redmond, WA 98052-6399; or

· visit www.microsoft.com/info/nareturns.htm.

2. Europe, Middle East and Africa. If you acquired the software in Europe, the Middle East or Africa, Microsoft Ireland Operations Limited makes this limited warranty. To make a claim under this warranty, you should contact either

· Microsoft Ireland Operations Limited, Customer Care Centre, Atrium Building Block B, Carmanhall Road, Sandyford Industrial Estate, Dublin 18, Ireland; or

· the Microsoft affiliate serving your country (see www.microsoft.com/worldwide).

3. Outside United States, Canada, Europe, Middle East and Africa. If you acquired the software outside the United States, Canada, Europe, the Middle East and Africa, contact the Microsoft affiliate serving your country (see www.microsoft.com/worldwide).

G. NO OTHER WARRANTIES. The limited warranty is the only direct warranty from Microsoft. Microsoft gives no other express warranties, guarantees or conditions. Where allowed by your local laws, Microsoft excludes implied warranties of merchantability, fitness for a particular purpose and non-infringement. If your local laws give you any implied warranties, guarantees or conditions, despite this exclusion, your remedies are described in the Remedy for Breach of Warranty clause above, to the extent permitted by your local laws.

H. LIMITATION ON AND EXCLUSION OF DAMAGES FOR BREACH OF WARRANTY. The Limitation on and Exclusion of Damages clause above applies to breaches of this limited warranty.

This warranty gives you specific legal rights, and you may also have other rights which vary from state to state. You may also have other rights which vary from country to country.
Please note: As this software is distributed in Quebec, Canada, some of the clauses in this agreement are provided below in French.

[warchild]

Sticky wicket here, but, one thing i noticed when i was doing stuff for P3D at the same time i was doing FSX was that if I attempted to start P3D while FSX is running, an error message would appear stating that another Lockheed product was already running.. With Lockheed having bought FSX/ESP and re-packaging it as P3D, perhaps it would be expedient to check over their EULA..

[X_eidos2]

Hello Javis,

You can find links to two of the studios here : http://www.myflightdirector.com/partners/

JaggyRoad Films and Crosshair Films. I have seen more, but I'd have to look around to re-locate them

The owner of JaggyRoad Films posts on the SOH forum often

X_eidos2

[Javis]

Thank you, sir, that's great ! :salute:

To begin with i'll try and PM Cody of Jaggyroad and see if he might have some tips for us.
Thanks much again ! :ernae:

Cheers,
Jan

[Javis]

Once installed the copy of the EULA is in the Root FSX folder. Its named is Eula.html.


Thanks,Dave, it was of course the first thing we looked at.We hoped to find an email address pertaining to copyright and permission subjects but drowned in a sea of links... I suppose not for no reason...

cheers,
Jan

[Javis]

With Lockheed having bought FSX/ESP and re-packaging it as P3D, perhaps it would be expedient to check over their EULA..

Ah... you mean read the P3D EULA instead of the FSX EULA because MS has turned FSX copyright over to Lockheed ?... We'll certainly look into it, thanks !

Cheers,
Jan

[Dangerousdave26]

I think you only need to worry about P3D if you are using P3D otherwise only the FSX ELUA you signed when installing the software counts.