Craig and Matt's Sopwith Camel Released 12th

[MDIvey]

You may have read this thread...

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?72914-Matts-Sopwith-Camel-Project&highlight=sopwith+camel

bad news is unfortunately due to ongoing health problems I have had to shelve this project... I was finding it too much to try and do this and my Steam Train work which pays the bills.

The good new is this... Craig from Classics Hangar has very kindly taken this project on to complete it (http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?73405-Classic-Wings-new-website&highlight=website). We all know and love Craigs work so thats good news indeed. Watch this space.

KR Matt

[Roger]

Thanks for the hu Matt. Sorry to hear about your health issues and hope things improve for you. Good to know Craig has taken up the project and look forward to seeing the finished design.

[MDIvey]

I've been enjoying flying an untextured version of the model this week that Craig supplied me and I must say I think your going to like this when its done. All that work I put into detailing the model really shows up well..... that Clerget spinning round with a propellor on really gives a sense of Torque and weight.... When Craig gives me the ok I'll show you some pictures.

Matt

[Roger]

Can't wait:engel016:

[Bomber_12th]

Very good news, guys!! I can't wait to see the in-game results! : )

[MDIvey]

Ok sorry its taken a while to get round to posting these but I've been busy with other things... Look at those gorgeous 3D Ribs Craig has added to the top of the wings! I was just going to use texture art and bump mapping...what Craig has done is much better.

Matt

76624

76625

76626

[Roger]

Marvellous:engel016:

[Pips]

That is looking superb. :jump:

[full]

A couple of shots from my work on the Camel today...

http://imageshack.us/a/img708/7847/camel1z.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img841/6470/cameljm.jpg

[Dain Arns]

MMMmmm....
I can smell the Castor oil from here.

Another winner. :applause:

[MDIvey]

Love the metalwork Craig and VC is superb of course

Matt

[Bomber_12th]

Superb detail and texture work, Craig! I've been very much looking forward to watching this one continue to develop. Check Tesco Offers (https://www.ladysavings.com/publix-weekly-ad/?tesco/) and Lidl Offers (https://www.ladysavings.com/publix-weekly-ad/?lidl/). It's cool to see the textures taking form on the cowling, prop, engine, and guns - really coming to life against the backdrop of the rest of the aircraft which hasn't yet received such attention.

[Roger]

Can't wait:applause:

[FentiFlier1]

Craig, you kick bottom :)

That's some crazy texturing on the cowling!


Owen.

[stiz]

hubba hubba!! :applause:

[warchild]

A couple of shots from my work on the Camel today...





Craig.. I could really use those gauges. ::lol:: PM me..
Oh and yeah everyone.. Paul and I are doing the flight model for this :)... Stay tuned. we're making it as real as possible..

[full]

Thanks peeps ! here is the Camel pretty much finished apart from a few historically correct paints, I added some numbers and squadron marks just to give me an idea of what it looks like.

http://imageshack.us/a/img842/7110/camel3y.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img577/6602/camel4.jpg

[Flyboy208]

This Sopwith looks absolutely outstanding Craig ! Mike :jump:

[Bomber_12th]

Wow, that looks good Craig!! Here I thought it was going to be several more weeks before we saw it looking so complete! The more screenshots I have seen the more I can appreciate the accuracy in the lines that Matt was able to capture, and the entire project looks superb - a very refined look about it!

[Paul Domingue]

Beautiful detail! You would be hard pressed to tell it from a real world photograph. Seeing creations like this keep me going on my own work in the hopes that one day I can do as well. :salute:

[Daube]

That model looks simply fantastic !

A small technical question, that I fear I already asked in the past but I forgot the answer: what tool do you use to generate the ambient occlusion effect in the cockpit ? Is it something that works automatically or does it require any texture-art skills ?
This ambient occlusion thing produce a visual effect that trully enhances the perception of the shapes, as well as the overall visual realism. I wish it were used by more plane modellers.

[FentiFlier1]

Speechless.

[full]

Thank guys ! you can really see the detail Matt put into the exterior mesh and the textures just bring it to life :)

@ Daube

The ambient Occlusion is applied in 3ds max using the render to texture feature, a little skill is needed otherwise the cockpit would be too dark, almost all of the textures you see on the camel started as flat colors including the cowl, then the shading is burnt onto the texture templates.

I know Matt has some favorite paints....

So whats yours ??

[MudMarine]

SOLD!!! Hurry up so I can buy it!!

[Daube]

@ Daube

The ambient Occlusion is applied in 3ds max using the render to texture feature, a little skill is needed otherwise the cockpit would be too dark, almost all of the textures you see on the camel started as flat colors including the cowl, then the shading is burnt onto the texture templates.



Thanks a lot for the explanations.
This 3DSMax tool seems to have impressive features. This "render to texture" tool is really a weapon in your hands. Thanks for the hard work. :ernae:

[warchild]

Thhe flight model has been coming along as well. unfortunately pictures cant show it off.. Paul and I have been putting in double time on this to keep up with craig and its also getting close to ready. We have some technical issues that have to be ironed out, but they're minor.. Trim has been eradicated and with 95% of the aircraft's weight in its first 7 feet, where you put your butt is just as important as which way you move the stick.. The technical problem i'm having is that the engine torque is reversed ( going left instead of right ) and i dont have the knowledge at the moment to correct it. If anyone has that knowledge,please let me know, I'll continue searching as well because over all, the plane is flying fantastically, which means it fights you every inch of the way.your gonna have to compensate for torque and your gonna have to fly it by the seat of your pants ( sometimes literally ). I promise you that it is not a cherry drop training wheels easy to fly aircraft.. But damn is it fun ( once you can get it off the ground ).. :)
Pam

[warchild]

Beautiful detail! You would be hard pressed to tell it from a real world photograph. Seeing creations like this keep me going on my own work in the hopes that one day I can do as well. :salute:

You do bloody great Paul.. hands down beautiful work..
so there :P~~~

[OleBoy]

I like the Sopwith. Always have. I'm not at all excited about how/what you did to the cowl for texture/bump maps. It looks like water/orange peel?

Just sayin. I've never seen a look like this, ever? Correct me if I am wrong. Shrug.

[warchild]

not saying your incorrect oleboy but..

80093

[warchild]

Soooooo, would anyone like to see a video of how she flies right now???

[TuFun]

Soooooo, would anyone like to see a video of how she flies right now???

Oh yes!!! Took me awhile to get use to flying these crates in ROF.

[TuFun]

80102

[warchild]

Oh yes!!! Took me awhile to get use to flying these crates in ROF.

heh. its taking me a while too.. And i got a long way to go..
let me crank up the movie machine and i'll get started on it.. At least one crash will be on purpose..

[OleBoy]

I think it should be more in the lines of slightly hammered, or similar to a spun look. http://www.norcorp.com/Portals/60349/images/aluminum-finish-DES-1050-AS.jpg

My apology. I did not mean to come in here and pick at it. It just caught my eye.
It's a fantastic model. I will welcome it most definitely. I really enjoy the vintage stuff.

[TuFun]

It does look like someone took a ball-peen hammer to the cowling. NeoQB Fokker Dr1 was not an easy aircraft to fly either. The Just Flight S.E.5.A Models is a more forgiving aircraft to fly! ;)

[warchild]

two things i hate.. Editing films blind where you cant see what is actually happening due to too much happening and too little memory ( eight gigs ), and waiting for the film to render arrrrgh.. i die..::lol:::

[warchild]

I think it should be more in the lines of slightly hammered, or similar to a spun look. http://www.norcorp.com/Portals/60349/images/aluminum-finish-DES-1050-AS.jpg

My apology. I did not mean to come in here and pick at it. It just caught my eye.
It's a fantastic model. I will welcome it most definitely. I really enjoy the vintage stuff.

Nahhh, i wasnt chewing you a new one ole boy, just that the plane looks a lot like the photo of it already is all.. Would be cool to see that hammered finish though..

and wait till you see the video.. Very short, but expresses how i feel about it to a "T".. This plane kicks ass ::lol::

[MDIvey]

Looking superb Craig... thanks for giving my baby the Star treatment.

Matt

[alehead]

With respect to the flight model, if you're having an issue with how to deal with the reversed torque, it might be worth trying to contact Bernt Stolle. He might have a tip or suggestion...

A


Andrew Entwistle

[warchild]

Thanks Andrew.. I solved it with the rotation entry, but its caused other issues that Craig will have to look at.. Film should be fully uploaded in an hour ( really slow upload rate ) and you can see where we were earlier tonight ( yup, we're moving that fast. Paul works on it while I sleep and i work on it while he sleeps.its 24/7 effort :) :) )..
We're currently using testimony from the sopwiths current display pilot as a guideline.. and as you'll see, shes coming along wonderfully..

[OleBoy]

I'm sure this is already had, although I have a Palmer Tyre texture tucked away in my collection. If I recall right I've done extensive work to it so it looks the part.
Craig, Matt, you're welcome to it if you like. That is, if I can find it.

[MDIvey]

Craig is doing the texturing so best he say if he can use it or not, but thanks for the offer.

Matt

[full]

We now have working guns and effects (strobe light) !! only one problem, no sound though.... so if anyone want to have a go at fixing the sound problem just PM me and I'll send you the files :)

http://imageshack.us/a/img42/444/camel4o.jpg

[stiz]

how bout useing the sounds from the converted david ecket camel (sopcamel_fsx_a_2010.zip at flightsim)?

also just an fyi and no real biggy, but the cowling was pretty smooth, not dimpled :engel016:

http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/sopwith-camel-f1-1.jpg

http://www.crashsiteorkney.com/userimages/sopwith_camel_1stproto_500.jpg

http://www.aresgames.eu/wp/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/600x_SopwithCamel_Barker.jpg

[MDIvey]

I have mentioned the Cowl metal to Craig. As far as I could see from reference material the only ones with engine turned metal finish where factory fresh or fairly new. Its seems it was more normal to be more smooth polished. I have to say the effect Craigs come up with does look nice in SIM though. I must admit I would like to see some with more dirty worn metal like John (Bomber_12th) managed to do on his P51s... got any tips for me and Craig John?

Matt

[full]

Another hair raising take-off....

http://imageshack.us/a/img842/6730/takeoffw.jpg

[FSX68]

I like what I see in this old crate. As I look through the comments I get the feeling that this is being beta tested by a select few here.
I guess I'll be direct...it this released yet and will it be payware or freeware. Sorry, had to ask.

[Bomber_12th]

Beautiful, Craig!! Ever since the Old Rhinebeck Camel has been painted like that, it has been a favorite.

[full]

I like what I see in this old crate. As I look through the comments I get the feeling that this is being beta tested by a select few here.
I guess I'll be direct...it this released yet and will it be payware or freeware. Sorry, had to ask.

LOL no not released yet.... and I believe Matt wants it to be freeware :)

[MudMarine]

Freeware! Awesome!

[MDIvey]

Just tried out some of the historical paints I asked Craig to do for me and I just cant wipe this Stupid Grin off my face.:icon_lol:

Whether its payware or freeware is your choice Craig! I just assumed it would be freeware because I was unaware of any involvement on your part in payware

Craig has done payware quality work here (as always)... & If I hadnt already donated all the work in the mesh to this project I'd certainly be making use of the donate button on his freeware site to buy the man a drink!

Matt (Humble opinion only)

[warchild]

I agree Matt.. He really has gone the mile on this one..

80230

http://i88.photobucket.com/albums/k171/urushira/2013-2-1_4-38-57-584_zps786d67b6.png

[warchild]

Afraid i've had some personal issues come up that preclude me from doing any more flight modeling.. I'm gonna have to back out of this and future/other projects but Paul is pretty good and should be able to give you all a wonderful aircraft.
its been fun..
Pam

[MDIvey]

Sorry to hear that Pam, but thank you for what you have already contributed to this project.

Matt

[full]

No worries Pam, you and Paul have done a wonderful job so far.

[full]

This paint is still a WIP....

http://imageshack.us/a/img19/5342/ruston1000thcamel.jpg

[MDIvey]

That could rival a German Flying Circus for Colour...very nice

Matt

[MDIvey]

8048980488

I think this is fast becoming one of my favourites of the ones Craig has done so far (54 Squadron)

Matt

[stiz]

teasing is naughty, stop it!!!!!! :isadizzy: :icon_lol:

[warchild]

Been talking with Paul this morning :).. He's telling me all the things hes done since i stepped away. You guys are gonna love this.. Its not a plane your going to be able to just get into and just steer around the sky. Your gonna have to work this plane.. About a sixty mile flight wears me out :). but, you can certainly consider the ability to fly one of these proficiently as a kind of badge of honor.. After all. If you can fly a Sopwith camel.....
I sincerely hope you all enjoy it :)..
Pam

[TuFun]

Been talking with Paul this morning :).. He's telling me all the things hes done since i stepped away. You guys are gonna love this.. Its not a plane your going to be able to just get into and just steer around the sky. Your gonna have to work this plane.. About a sixty mile flight wears me out :). but, you can certainly consider the ability to fly one of these proficiently as a kind of badge of honor.. After all. If you can fly a Sopwith camel.....
I sincerely hope you all enjoy it :)..
Pam

If it flies like the one in ROF... it's defiantly going to be a handful to fly! Especially if you have a D.VII on your tail!

[warchild]

not having flown anything in ROF, i have nothing to compare it too.. right now, it kinda flies like the planes in the you tube videos.. Challenging yes, but, still flyable.. What we've found is that the torque of the engine nwas not the culprit that killed everyone. it was the landing gear.. it was completely stiff and its width was just perfect to bounce you into a ground loop on both takeoff and landing.. We may have tamed that down a tiny bit.. my last version i sent to paul a few days ago, you had to land absolutely perfect or you died.. there was no mercy.. Frankly, landing on a carrier in the middle of the night without lights would be easier.. Soo, yeah, we may have tamed that a tiny bit..

[MDIvey]

Craig has sent me a new version with a lot more paints that he's done... wow!

Matt
8056980570805718057280573805748057580576

[MDIvey]

A Few More

Matt
80577805788057980580

[Bomber_12th]

They really look superb and very 'smart'!

[FentiFlier1]

:applause::applause::applause::applause::applause:

[TuFun]

not having flown anything in ROF, i have nothing to compare it too.. right now, it kinda flies like the planes in the you tube videos.. Challenging yes, but, still flyable.. What we've found is that the torque of the engine nwas not the culprit that killed everyone. it was the landing gear.. it was completely stiff and its width was just perfect to bounce you into a ground loop on both takeoff and landing.. We may have tamed that down a tiny bit.. my last version i sent to paul a few days ago, you had to land absolutely perfect or you died.. there was no mercy.. Frankly, landing on a carrier in the middle of the night without lights would be easier.. Soo, yeah, we may have tamed that a tiny bit..

Six sorties later starting to get the hang of flying the Camel. Getting in the air is no problem... landing is another story. Just like the one that crashed in the building, same with me... turns to the right if not careful on landings. If you use the ailerons only, the Camel will spin very easly, but hard to recover, with the combination of ailerons and rudder it's much more stable. I just need to practice my landings.

Here's a short video of the ROF Camel... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AdfdUkCN6E

[full]

While I'm wrapping up the Sopwith Camel (Manual) I though I'd share this link, I just love the sound of the Gnome rotary, and how the plane vibrates with the engine torque, makes me smile :)

<iframe src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/MZM1kc_N770?feature=player_detailpage" allowfullscreen="" frameborder="0" height="360" width="640"></iframe>

[Bomber_12th]

I love that video too, Craig! That happens to be the only authentic-reproduction Sopwith Camel flying today, and operated by those who know what they're doing (the pilots and engineers of 'The Vintage Aviator' at Masterton, New Zealand - a company owned by film maker Peter Jackson, specializing in the operation and manufacture of exact reproductions of WWI aircraft and engines). The Old Rhinebeck Camel, as far as I know, hasn't flown in several years, with the new management - and as has been brought up a few times here, the aircraft has seemingly not had pilots at the controls that know enough about what they're doing, in recent years, resulting in loss of control while just performing fast taxi runs. Fortunately none of these aircraft are original priceless relics of WWI, but rather are very accurate reproductions that can be repaired when items are damaged or broken. With these types of aircraft, if there is no prop wash over the rudder, the rudder will be useless. As soon as the engine is stopped or at idle, you're not going to get any rudder control, and there will be no way for you the pilot to be able to steer the aircraft on the ground. When the ORA pilot lost control of the Rhinebeck Camel in that particular video mentioned, he's trapped by that fact - the engine is cut when the right-turn starts coming, and because of this, even though he puts in full left rudder, it has no effect. Had he caught it soon enough, he would have needed to blip the power back on while feeding left rudder - wait too long, of course, and it would be too late.

When you watch and listen to any experienced pilot landing a rotary-powered aircraft, you'll hear the engine blip on and off while the pilot feeds in brief movements of rudder, to keep the aircraft going fairly straight down the runway.

I saved this image off of The Vintage Aviator's Facebook page yesterday, of their Camel being trailed by one of the numerous Fokker Dr.1 reproductions based in New Zealand. Both Gene DeMarco (who pilots this aircraft) and Kermit Weeks, are never to be seen flying these types of aircraft without the trademark white scarf. ; )

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y282/Bomber_12th/raiden/488032_440580802679841_1994796887_n_zps5ec2500f.jp g

[warchild]

I actually considered bribing Craig to make a scarf for the pilot. it adds so much by being there, but, it would be incredibly tedious to animate so i thought better of it..

Paul and i studied that plane from every aspect imaginable. Sadly, he's in wales and i'm in the US so we could never get eyeballs on it, but the videos helped a great deal. we knew we had to make this plane fly like a Sopwith camel, and not an FSx Sopwith camel. So we broke every rule in the book on making flight models.. the only thing that mattered to us was make it real.. many aspects of the plane have never been included in flight simulator at all. the torque of a rotary engine that weighs almost half as much as the rest of the plane twisting around at 1200 rpm while the attached prop pulled it through the air. the almost rigid landing gear and the way it could bounce you not only in the wrong direction but completely roll you over.
Craig has done a simply amazing job on this aircraft, and Paul and I felt compelled to give it just as great of an effort on our part. I sincerely hope you all enjoy it when its released..
Pam
Oh yes, by the way.. The reason for the scarf is that the engine didnt have any exhaust, and the oil was pretty much a system where it entered the engine and dropped out of it somehow ( i'm certainly no expert on rotaries ), so the pilot would use the scarf to wipe the oil from their goggles as well as to help prevent chafing from the cold wind during flight..
one thing we were not able to incorporate is that at 130 mph ( in a dive 0 the windscreen would cause the nose of the plane to oscillate up and down. i didnt see any way to make that happen so its a reality that is not there. i apologize for that. perhaps in a future release if we can figure out a way to invent it..

[warchild]

Six sorties later starting to get the hang of flying the Camel. Getting in the air is no problem... landing is another story. Just like the one that crashed in the building, same with me... turns to the right if not careful on landings. If you use the ailerons only, the Camel will spin very easly, but hard to recover, with the combination of ailerons and rudder it's much more stable. I just need to practice my landings.

Here's a short video of the ROF Camel... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AdfdUkCN6E
::LOL:: this makes me wish i had ROF. i still cant draw a comparison, and i cant say which is more accurate ( having never actually flown a camel myself ), but we;ve done our very best to make it match not only the videos, but the pilot reports and old geezer stories as well.. I hope you enjoy it.,. Just, dont expect the normal FSx aircraft :;lol:;
PS.. The ROF plane seems way too stable after losing its prop. but i could be incorrect :)..

[Ferry_vO]

::LOL:: this makes me wish i had ROF...

You can try it for free, but that version won't include the Camel. Still worth a try IMHO.. Not a bad sim at all!

[Bomber_12th]

While talking about the Sopwith Camel, did you know...

There is a company called Airdrome Aeroplanes, based in Missouri, that can build you a replica Sopwith Camel. It will be a full size replica (in all dimentions), but is built to be cost effective and to provide the safest WWI style flying experience, utilizing modern construction and a modern engine. This is the company's website, showing all of the different replica WWI (and older) type aircraft that they can, and have, manufactured (my personal favorites are the Bleriots they have built): http://www.airdromeaeroplanes.com/
(http://www.airdromeaeroplanes.com/)
Here is a thread showing one of these having been built (the first example). As mentioned in the thread, instead of a 130 hp Clerget rotary, as the original Camels were manufactured with, it is powered by a modern Rotec radial engine, of similar size, that produces 150 hp, and instead of a wooden frame, it has a steel tube frame. Other than that, it has the same frabric, wood, and metal skins, and various period items that make it look the part. Be sure to look at some of the pics later in this thread, showing the fully completed aircraft (especially the last pic of it at the very end of the thread). Save for the engine and tail wheel, you would be hard pressed not to believe it was an exact copy. The really cool part is that it can be treated as just an ordinary, every day flyer!

http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=35166
(http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=35166)
And here is a gallery on the Airdrome Aeroplanes web site: http://www.airdromeaeroplanes.com/airdrome_camel/album/index.html

The owner of this aircraft has also had a Sopwith Hamble Baby Convert manufactured by the company as well (this was sort of a land-based version of the Sopwith Tabloid), as seen here: http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=41516&hilit (http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=41516&hilit=Sopwith)

[Pips]

The Camel is a fascinating aeroplane, it's spectacular combat abilities only matched by it's (supposedly) deadly flying vices. The only other aircraft that comes close in reputation for such a combination of good and bad is arguably the F4U Corsair. There have been several quality books written that involve the Camel, one of the best being 'Winged Victory' by Yeates; another being 'Open Cockpit' by A.G. Lee.

But the best to my mind, and one of my most treasured books is "Flying The Old Planes" by Frank Tallman. Published in 1973 Frank describes flying original WWI aircraft in marvellous detail. Given that not everyone may have read this book I thought I would reproduce the chapter on the Camel. It's a first hand account of a skilled pilot flying an original (as clsoe as maybe) restored Camel.

Just as background Frank Tallman, who along with Paul Mantz formed Tallmantz Aviation, was famous as a stunt pilot for Hollywood and a collector of rare and vintage aircraft. Paul was killed in 1965 on the film set for 'Flight of the Phoenix'. Frank died in 1978 while delivering a Piper Aztec. In bad weather, with a lowering ceiling and rain, he struck the side of Santiago Peak in the Santa Ana Mountains near Trabuco Canyon. RIP.

Here's the abridged chapter from "Flying The Old Planes".

My Sopwith Camel is, as far as I’m aware, the only original World War 1 Camel ever brought back to flying condition. It was originally owned by Colonel Jarrett of the Jarrett War Museum located on the old Steel Pier in Atlantic City; who in the 1930’s had the best museum of WWI equipment ever assembled, including the Belgian War Museum in Brussels. The Jarrett Museum fell on hard times following WWII and, with time and money on my side after my service period, and a lifelong ambition of owning a WWI aircraft, I purchased for a small sum (by today’s standards) several antique aircraft including the Camel, a Nieuport 28, a Pfalz D.XII, a Fokker D.VII and a SPAD VII.

The Camel was the first WWI aircraft I brought back to flying condition and required some major rebuilding, which took several years, many thousands of dollars and a whole host of experts including Paul Poberzney of the Experimental Aircraft Association, the gifted master craftsman Ned Kensinger, the Hawker Siddeley Group and a number of very dedicated volunteer’s.

(NB: There is quite a bit on the rebuilding process in the Chapter but I have left it out of this extract for the sake of space).

When the day finally came to fly the air was filled with great anticipation. On arrival at the airport though I was dismayed to hear from my team that they had been trying to get the temperamental 110 h.p. Le Rhone started since 8.00am that morning, without success. The lack of knowledge amongst us regarding the Le Rhone was appalling. Did we have spark? Yes. Was the mag set? Yes. Had the commutator ring been wiped off? Yes. Had we primed it? Only every other cylinder.

With only a vague notion of what I was doing I clambered into the cockpit (a very tight fit) and reviewed the cord-wrapped Spade stick, the Block tube, carburettors next to one’s knees, the flexible air intake to the outside air scoops, the wood wire brace longerons, the instrument panel with it’s clutter and the duel control cables to the wooden rudder bar. At my request, the crew forced open the intake valves as the engine was pushed through (switch off) and shot a charge of fuel in each cylinder, as the cylinder came in front of the hole in the cowling. By accident, rather than by knowledge, I advanced the long lever controlling the air, and in pushing the manet (a small wheel knob on the miniature control quadrant) forward and then returning it, I had hit on the correct starting procedure. Wonder of wonders, as I flipped the porcelain-mounted switch up and called for contact, the Le Rhone started with a full-throated bellow, scaring both me and the crew!

By shoving the fuel-controlling lever forward and using the coupe (cut-out) button on the stick, I was able to keep the engine running. Soon the never-to-be-forgotten smell of castor oil infused our area, and the sight of oil splattering the leading edge of the low wings indicated that the engine was lubricating properly. Taxiing practice ended ignominiously a hundred feet from the starting point, when my newfound knowledge wasn’t equal to the delicate adjustment of fuel and air, and the Le Rhone quit.

The revitalised ground crew hauled the 900 pound airplane over the grass and faced me into the wind. For safety sake we changed the plugs, and the Le Rhone started first try. I headed down the field with the throttle wide open. The tail came up almost instantly, and visibility was good, except for the Aldis sight and the twin Vickers. Not having planned on flight it came as something of a shock to find the Camel airborne at about 35 mph after a ground run of just 150 feet. Being afraid of jockeying with my ticklish fuel and air controls I stayed low and just got used to the Camel’s sensitive ailerons, elevators and rudder.

I circled the field once, got into position for landing, shut fuel air and switch off, and made a light forward slip, touching down gently on three points. Total landing couldn’t have been much longer than the initial take-off run.

So much for my first (unintentional) flight in the Camel.

Since then I’ve spent more time flying the Camel than any of the other historical aircraft in our collection. I’ve also had more forced landings in it than all the rest of the WWI aircraft combined. It’s that temperamental Le Rhone. Cylinders have blown, magneto’s have failed, even fouled spark plugs have brought me down unceremoniously, with sweating hands and my heart in my mouth, desperately seeking a patch of open ground on which to land. Yet for all that it’s the one I turn to first for any show or exhibition, as the Camel gets my blood going like no other. This is an aircraft that is a joy to fly.

With the Le Rhone 9J, you cannot adjust either the fuel or air intake without running the risk of a dead-stick landing. You must leave them alone and use you Coupe (cut-out) button for all fight handling.

The take-off run is easy. In a wind of 10 to 15 knots you are airborne in a couple of plane lengths at 35 mph and climbing out at 60 mph, with a rate of climb of almost 1,000 feet a minute. The elevators are sensitive, as is the rudder. Consequently, when fling for any distance I often put the heels of my shoes on the floor tie wires, because the vibration of the Le Rhone through the rudder bar exaggerates the rudder movements.

In level flight at 100 mph indicated, the Camel is delightful, with just a hint of rudder being required for straight flight. The structure is rugged enough to feel comfortable in loops, and being slightly tail-heavy it goes up and over in an incredibly small circle in the sky, and faster than any other WWI aircraft I have flown. Sneeze and your halfway through a loop before your aware of what’s happened. 110 mph is enough to carry you through, and as you slow down over the top you must feed in rudder against the torque.

In military shows I have ground strafed, and as soon as the airspeed reaches 130 to 140 mph the nose begins to hunt up and down, and the elevator becomes extremely sensitive. I feel this action is due largely to the square windshield between the two Vickers guns, causing a substantial burble over the tail surfaces.

Turns are what the Camel is all about. Turning to the right with the torque requires the top rudder to hold the nose up, and the speed with which you can complete a 360-degree turn is breathtaking. Left turns are slower, with the nose wanting to rise during the turn. But small rudder input easily keeps the nose level with the horizon. In stalls at 35 to 40 mph the nose drops frighteningly fast and hard to the right, but you also get control back quickly, although a surprising amount of altitude has been lost. I have had the pleasure of limited dog fighting with other WWI fighters, and there are none that can stay with a Camel in a turn.

With the Le Rhone being temperamental as it is, flying the Camel is best done at times when there are few other aircraft in the sky, leaving easy access to the airport in cases of emergency. The Camel touches down easily but runs out of rudder control almost instantly, and if you bounce your landing at all, you are likely to find yourself in a hairy ground loop looking at a rapidly bending aileron dragging in the grass.

For a wide variety of reasons, the Camel is a fascinating airplane, flight-wise as well as historically. But don’t think I ever got out of the Camel after being airborne even in the coldest weather without buckets of perspiration and considerable gratitude that I had gotten the little girl home again without breaking her into splinters!

[Bomber_12th]

Thank you for posting that, Pips! I really enjoyed reading it, and I think I'll have to try and trace down a copy of that book. Frank Tallman, Paul Mantz, and the Tallmantz collection have really fascinated me in recent years (much of the collection of course eventually went to Kermit Weeks/Fantasy of Flight).

A photo of that particular WWI survivor Sopwith Camel taken at the museum in 1964 can be seen on this page, about halfway down: http://www.aerovintage.com/tman_photo3.htm
(Speaking of which, many great old Tallmantz photos can be found in the galleries here: http://www.aerovintage.com/tallmantz.htm)

The Camel still survives to this day, and is owned by the Arkansas Aviation Historical Society.

[warchild]

thanks pips..
That article became part of our bible for developing the flight model. Had we created the flight model the "normal" way, you wouldnt have seen any of that happening. to begin with, theres no such thing as a bi-plane in Flight sim. The program simply will not allow you to use two wings. its an old problem thats very familiar, but in the case of the Sopwith, it gets magnified a hundred fold as the rotational center ( not the cg ) is located just below the top wing, and the dihedral on the bottom wing plays a significant roll . Paul and i worked up a strategy whereby instead of programming in empirical data, we calculated the forces involved in effecting the flight, and programmed the flight model with those forces. fine tuning the flight model became easy. all we had to do was put the real plane under a magnifying glass and duplicate the usage of the control surfaces.. the fact that in some videos the sopwith is flying with a dr.1 made it all that much better as we had a second aircraft to use as reference for wind strength and such so we could make a fairly accurate assessment of how much reaction was needed because of weather and how much was needed because of the planes characteristics. what we have is an aircraft that mimics the sopwith camel seen in the videos in all aspects of flight..
Also, when you download it.. turn the engine off and set the chocks. then step out of the cockpit and hit ctrl-e.. enjoy :) :) ( yes, it mimics the start up torque as well )

[full]

On Patrol....

You can grab the Paint kit here ------> http://www.classicwings.net/freeplanes/Sopwith_Camel/Sopwith_Camel_Paintkit.zip

The full package will be available later today :)

http://imageshack.us/a/img341/8084/onpatrol.jpg

http://imageshack.us/a/img855/4921/onpatrol1.jpg

[stiz]

lovely jubley :applause:

[MDIvey]

I'd just like to thank Craig for taking on my mesh and making it into something we can enjoy using in FSX for a long time. What he has done has exceeded my expectations for this project. Thank you to Pam and Paul too for the hours they have put into the FDE which is amazing. The whole package adds up to hours of fun:icon_lol:

Matt

[full]

I'd like to echo Matt's post and thank him for the wonderful mesh I worked with !! simply stunning....

Special thanks goes to Pam and Paul for their efforts on the flight model, it really is a interesting airplane to fly (and land) :ernae:

Here is the direct link to the Sopwith Camel ----> http://www.classicwings.net/freeplanes/Sopwith_Camel/Sopwith_Camel.zip

and a link to my page ----> http://classicwings.net/sopwith_camel.html

[dvj]

Downloading now!!! Wow!!!

[Roger]

Got to wait 4 hours before I can fly!! Thanks Craig, Matt, Pam and Paul:ernae:

[Bruce Thompson]

Downloaded and flown, wonderful aircraft thanks to all involved in producing this, Craig, Matt, Pam, Paul.:jump::jump::salute::medals::guinness:

[warchild]

::LOL:: and thank you all as well. Especially to those of you downloading and flying this craft. Without you, It would only be a construct.
Its a bit addicting isnt it?? this plane i mean. the richness of the wood, the sheen on the brass and the way the light gently curves around the glass on the instruments.. Even the wicker on the chair looks comfy.. This plane is "special". Very special, and i want to thank Matt for inventing the original mesh and hanging in there with us all through the project, and Craig for taking that mesh and turning it into an amazing almost living breathing thing.. but most of all I want to say "Thanks Guys". It was an honor building this thing with you folks, for you folks..

OK, Tips on flying this thing before you come back and kill me :;chuckles::

1. The Sopwith had a twin magneto ignition system. One magneto was used by pressing a button on the stick and would engage all nine cylinders or cut the power to that magneto. it was called the "blip" switch. The other magneto had a three position selector switch which allowed you to use either three, six, or all nine cylinders. there was no throttle as we know them today. The closest we can mimic this in FSX is to suggest that you fly withyour throttle at either 33%, 66% or 100% settings. You can also set up FSUIPC to create a type of "blip" switch too.

2. "Before" removing the chocks set your stick to give the aircraft approximately 80% right aileron. That will hel keep you from rolling over when the front wheels come off the ground.

3. As you accelerate down the runway, gently and smoothly apply right rudder to keep the plane straight. once in the air, continue holding right rudder until the airspeed reaches the planes speed of equilibrium ( approx 70 mph ) where weathervaning takes over to keep the plane as straight as it can get ( the Sopwith is legendary for never quite flying in the direction its pointed ).

4. before you even start it up, climb out of the plane and get in front of it.. now press the starter, and watch it rock and roll. hit the throttle a few times and watch it dance.. :)

5. Spins are rare, but they do happen. The tail on the plane was so heavy it could flip around in a heartbeat on an unwary and under trained pilot. If you find yourself entering a spin, there are three choices you can choose from: learn fast, pray, die. there is no centering the stick and reducing throttle to get out of it. There is no dropping the gear. and theres no one single way this plane enters a spin. It demands respect. It rewards you with knowing youve mastered the single most difficult to fly plane ever created..

Love you all..
Pam

[dvj]

Oh My!

http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/511/camelh.jpg

[warchild]

Oh My!

http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/511/camelh.jpg

I want this as a background. Simply beautiful DVJ. Simply beautiful :) :) ..

[warchild]

Roger? Tom? Could you folks please sticky this thread for the guys? they really deserve it with this plane..
Thanks.
Pam

[dvj]

http://img829.imageshack.us/img829/6348/camel6u.jpg

[Roger]

Loving it!:ernae::applause::medals:

http://fsfiles.org/flightsimshotsv2/images/2013/02/12/tekyp.jpg

[OleBoy]

Very very nice.
Thank you for sharing such a desirable rendition. :wavey:

[Kiwikat]

Oh man, I cannot wait to get home from work and try her out! :jump:

[Dimus]

Amazing! Just climbed out of the cockpit after a 30min flight and I think I smell castor oil!

Thank you so much for this gem!

[Daube]

I could finally try it.
The plane looks fantastic, and the sounds aren't bad either ;)
The flight model is quite challenging too, however I would have some small questions about it:
- are you sure this plane had brakes ?
- due to the torque effect, the plane always want to turn left.... however, when I shut the engine down (both magnetos off), the plane continues to turn left. Is that normal ?
- once the engine is shut in flight and the prop stops spinning, I cannot turn it on again. I suppose the starter works only when on the ground, because that plane didn't really have a starter, but had to be manually started by some guy, right ?
- once the prop stops spinning in flight, it won't spin even in a fast dive. Is it normal ?

Sorry for the dumb questions, I haven't **** yet because I couldn't resist testing the plane immediately after the installation :D
Thanks a lot for that great addon. :applause:

[fleurdelys]

Merci beaucoup Craig, Matt, Pam and Paul ... :icon29:

Now, I'll be building myself a special hangar just for your planes which I'll name: "Craig's Stringbags Galore" ...

Looking forward to your next endeavours, but in the meantime, I'll have to learn to fly this one properly...:isadizzy:

Cheers,

Fleurdelys

[delta558]

Just a quick answer to one question (I'm supposed to be working!) - the Camel does not have brakes, but the parking brake is used to bring up the visual of the chocks, while normal brakes are tied to the machine guns firing. Unfortunately, this means that the brake section will still provide braking effect on the ground. Just try and avoid using brakes on the ground - it slows quickly enough without them.

[full]

Thanks for you kind comments everyone :)

@Daube

No it didn't have brakes, but the entry in the aircraft.cfg is required for the guns to work, of course you could delete the entry but your gun effects wouldn't work.

Pam or Paul would be the best to ask about the flight dynamics.... but the plane turning when the engine is turned off may have to do with rotational forces of the engine.

I have shut off in flight before and started again so maybe there is something a miss ? is your fuel cock open ? mixture rich ?

The prop not spinning is a FS trait, no aircraft I know of have this feature (maybe A2A). I'm not saying its not possible I just haven't found how to implement it yet... maybe using the anemometer tag somehow ?

[Daube]

Thanks for the answers !
Ok for the brakes, no problem with that, I'll simply avoid using them on the ground :)
Concerning the engine start, I'll make some additionnal tries tomorrow, as I didn't have enough time tonight.
Thanks again ! :ernae:

[jetstreamsky]

Try minimising the toe_brakes_scale value to 0.1 so they have no practical effect, unless this interferes with the gun.

[Flyboy208]

Wow! Just took her up for a short hop ... very impressive in every aspect, a job well done by all involved ! Mike :ernae:

[Paul Anderson]

... so I must say:

it is replete with salacious muchness.

(great job, especially knowing many use joystick trigger for brakes and toggles guns on this bird)

[Bomber_12th]

I have had the chance to take her up (did so as soon as was practical! : ) ), and what an excellent production all around, from all of those that were involved - superb visuals, flight dynamics, and sounds. When taking this aircraft up, I couldn't help but be thankful that I have rudder pedals to really fully enjoy this aircraft, as it is an aircraft that is meant to be flown with the rudder, and that certainly comes through with the flight dynamics. You can feel that it is unstable, allowing it to be a nimble fighter. Its a joy to fly an aircraft in FS that requires attention on all flight controls - very much like the Neoqb Fokker Dr.1, which until today, was my favorite WWI aircraft to fly in FSX.

One item I thought should be touched on, is the common belief/myth about the rotary engine. There were several different companies that produced rotary engines during WWI, and different versions of the Camel had different manufacturer's engines fitted. The biggest myth concerning rotary engines is that they didn't have conventional throttles, where as in reality most rotary engines did have conventional throttles. Because of the popularity of the Gnome rotary engine in the years since WWI (used on several WWI replica aircraft that fly today, and discussed quite a bit, with its unique operation), it tends to create the idea that all rotary engines operated as it does (it having that selector mag to control the speed, instead of a throttle, with four settings - eighth-speed, quarter-speed, half-speed, and full-speed). I believe the majority of Sopwith Camels were produced with Clerget engines, while others had le Rhone's, Bentley's, or Gnome's (it sounds like the RNAS Camels always had Bentley engines, standard), and all of these, except for the Gnome's, used a conventional throttle. This model, as well as all other FS Camels that have come before, has a coventional throttle in the cockpit, and this is accurate for all of those Camels that had engines other than the Gnome. 'Conventional' isn't quite right to describe the throttle on these, though, as you couldn't just jockey the throttle to control the engine - whenever you made changes with the throttle, you would also have to make changes to the fuel/air mixture at the same time, and if not done right, the engine would quit and you would be looking at dead-sticking it in. As a result, once full power was attained, many pilots, from what I seem to recall, liked to just use the blip switch and not mess around with the throttle - this was especially the case on landing, when the pilot couldn't be focused on having to adjust multiple controls to both lower the speed and still keep the engine running. This therefore answers the question as to why they would keep the blip switch, inspite of having a throttle.

So, when using your joystick throttle with the aircraft in the sim, it actually is more accurate than you might otherwise be led to believe.

I noticed that the horsepower in the engine section is 160, which is indicating the very late Gnome 9N, which I believe is the type found on the Camels operated today in New Zealand and at Old Rhinebeck. During WWI, these are all of the different engines that were fitted to the Camel, and their individual horsepower:

Clerget 9B - 130 Hp (conventional throttle)
Clerget 9Bf - 140 Hp (conventional throttle)
Le Rhone 9J - 110 Hp (conventional throttle)
Bentley Br1 - 150 Hp (conventional throttle - probably the best engine ever fitted to this aircraft - for the first time in decades, one is now operating, on Kermit Weeks' Sopwith Snipe)
Gnome 9B-2 - 100 Hp (no throttle)
Gnome 9N - 150 Hp or 160 Hp (no throttle)

[warchild]

I can explain the orque force when the engines are off.. you see, FSX has only a single entry for toque and nowhere else is it calculated. That entry is Torque_on_roll in the aircraft.cfg file and its job is to apply an amount of torque when you roll the plane left or right.. That wasnt going to get it with this plane. I searched online for a couple days for information about torque in fsx including places like fsdeveloper, and came up empty handed, so i realized that if we were going to have torque, we had to invent it. Annnnnd about that moment Craig shipped over an almost finished version of the plane and everything went EEK!!!.. We didnt have a lot of time.. There was an old trick they used with some rotary engines on real aircraft to counter the torque effects. They would offset the engines position a very small amount. I chose to expand on this idea and used a bipolar ofset. the cg is offset to one side, and the engine offset to the other side. this allowed me to ( quickly ) create a torque like effect that could be adjusted for force by simply balancing out the locations of the engine and cg. Now, for all intents and purposes in this aircraft, the cg, is not the cg. Rather, its the rotational center, or, the place on the aircraft around which the rotational force is experienced during pitch or banking. As i mentioned earlier, we could not have built this aircraft using standard techniques and gotten it close to flying like a real camel, so, everything in the flight model was developed around forces insted of empirical data and locations. however, moving the cg off to one side creates an issue wherein you will always experience some rotational force, except for the moment you begin to decelerate. at that moment, torque is reversed as the plane wants to rotate with the engine as it winds down. I do wish we were able to do better with the torque effects, but as i said, its a new invention in fsx and we havent perfected it yet..
Pam

[warchild]

I noticed that the horsepower in the engine section is 160, which is indicating the very late Gnome 9N, which I believe is the type found on the Camels operated today in New Zealand and at Old Rhinebeck. During WWI, these are all of the different engines that were fitted to the Camel, and their individual horsepower:

Clerget 9B - 130 Hp (conventional throttle)
Clerget 9Bf - 140 Hp (conventional throttle)
Le Rhone 9J - 110 Hp (conventional throttle)
Bentley Br1 - 150 Hp (conventional throttle - probably the best engine ever fitted to this aircraft - for the first time in decades, one is now operating, on Kermit Weeks' Sopwith Snipe)
Gnome 9B-2 - 100 Hp (no throttle)
Gnome 9N - 150 Hp or 160 Hp (no throttle)

your absolutely dead on the money John. I put a 9n in there. the reason for that is very simple. i can open you tube and watch how that engine performs. i can hear it; almost smell it and feel it ( i can be very imaginative ). over all, it has in my opinion the very best documentation of all the engines because i can do more than read about it. the bentley was my second choice, although those were fewer in number due to their high cost, and the fact that the admiralty didnt really like letting go of them. So, i stuck with the 160 hp 9N. also i kind of liked the fact that it had no throttle.. hopefully, somewhere down the road someone will create three position magneto's and blip switches that can be used in these old birds and i can finish it properly :)..

[warchild]

Thanks for you kind comments everyone :)



I'd like to echo what Craig said above. Thank you all.. :).. I hope our humble little offering continues to bring you pleasure for many years to come.
Pam

[JohnC]

I can explain the orque force when the engines are off.. you see, FSX has only a single entry for toque and nowhere else is it calculated. That entry is Torque_on_roll in the aircraft.cfg file and its job is to apply an amount of torque when you roll the plane left or right.. That wasnt going to get it with this plane. I searched online for a couple days for information about torque in fsx including places like fsdeveloper, and came up empty handed, so i realized that if we were going to have torque, we had to invent it. Annnnnd about that moment Craig shipped over an almost finished version of the plane and everything went EEK!!!.. We didnt have a lot of time.. There was an old trick they used with some rotary engines on real aircraft to counter the torque effects. They would offset the engines position a very small amount. I chose to expand on this idea and used a bipolar ofset. the cg is offset to one side, and the engine offset to the other side. this allowed me to ( quickly ) create a torque like effect that could be adjusted for force by simply balancing out the locations of the engine and cg. Now, for all intents and purposes in this aircraft, the cg, is not the cg. Rather, its the rotational center, or, the place on the aircraft around which the rotational force is experienced during pitch or banking. As i mentioned earlier, we could not have built this aircraft using standard techniques and gotten it close to flying like a real camel, so, everything in the flight model was developed around forces insted of empirical data and locations. however, moving the cg off to one side creates an issue wherein you will always experience some rotational force, except for the moment you begin to decelerate. at that moment, torque is reversed as the plane wants to rotate with the engine as it winds down. I do wish we were able to do better with the torque effects, but as i said, its a new invention in fsx and we havent perfected it yet..
Pam

That's actually not entirely true. Most of the issues associated with the rotary engine were not torque, but angular momentum. When angular momentum is forced to change it's direction it becomes gyroscopic procession. Skip ahead to 2:00 and you'll see the classical example of pitch turning into yaw.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sy5NY-Dqdys

This effect is actually modeled into FSX, and is nestled away in the propeller MOI, [propeller geometry]. Since the entire engine is rotating with the propeller, the MOI is increased by an order of magnitude. A crude calculation of the 9B simplified as uniformly dense thin disc comes arrives at an MOI of 33.1 slugs*ft^2, which is more than ten times the current entry of 2.3 (a very reasonable number for just a propeller).

Making this change doesn't produce a huge effect, however, but it does when increased to 50 slugs*ft^2 (simply to illustrate that it does work). This probably means one or both of the static yaw stability coefficients (Cy_dBeta, and Cy_dBeta-dot) are a touch high.

I'm not at all trying to be critical on a splendid release. I know that Pam is always looking to improve her flight modeling knowledge and thought I'd offer some insight.

Great job!

:ernae:

[delta558]

The reason for the prop MOI being set so low is entirely mine - Pam was quite adamant that it should be higher. However, in an attempt to replicate the fairly sharp power changes caused by 'blipping' the un-throttled 160hp Gnome rotary engine, it was necessary to reduce the MOI in order to create a more responsive engine. Pam's original MOI setting was 9.3, but the result of that was that when you put power back on it took an absolute age to get anywhere near full power. The same was noticeable in throttle reduction - you could slam the throttle shut but still be waiting for the thrust to decrease a good few seconds later. It did not create anywhere near the effect seen in the many videos which are available on YouTube, the rocking as power is momentarily interrupted then re-applied for example. In fact, increasing the prop MOI had completely the opposite effect of that which can be seen in the videos: increasing the throttle and decreasing the throttle would have so much lag that the engine response was slow enough to completely ruin any of the effects created by the rotary engine.

What we have tried to create is something that takes the constant rotation of the engine as being the most stable point (hence the rotational effect at idle throttle), and then create a faster reaction to the throttle to give the effect of the sudden application of full power with no middle ground.

Hope that helps to explain our thinking behind this a little bit.

[fleurdelys]

This plane is gorgeous. It is a handfull but truly fun plane to fly...

I still have to work on the takeoffs but the landing are OK as long as you have a LARGE landing strip, like a field with no obstacles around...:icon_lol:

I have tried the guns and noticed that the sound kept shooting after the gun flashes had stopped for up to half a second to a full second. There is an easy fix to this. Open the "fx_spandau_s" effect and correct the second entry (sound) with the following...

[Sound]
FileName=wwi_guns.wav
MinAttenuationDistance=500.00
Looping=False

It should bring the sound and flashes in sync.

[JohnC]

The reason for the prop MOI being set so low is entirely mine - Pam was quite adamant that it should be higher. However, in an attempt to replicate the fairly sharp power changes caused by 'blipping' the un-throttled 160hp Gnome rotary engine, it was necessary to reduce the MOI in order to create a more responsive engine. Pam's original MOI setting was 9.3, but the result of that was that when you put power back on it took an absolute age to get anywhere near full power. The same was noticeable in throttle reduction - you could slam the throttle shut but still be waiting for the thrust to decrease a good few seconds later. It did not create anywhere near the effect seen in the many videos which are available on YouTube, the rocking as power is momentarily interrupted then re-applied for example. In fact, increasing the prop MOI had completely the opposite effect of that which can be seen in the videos: increasing the throttle and decreasing the throttle would have so much lag that the engine response was slow enough to completely ruin any of the effects created by the rotary engine.

What we have tried to create is something that takes the constant rotation of the engine as being the most stable point (hence the rotational effect at idle throttle), and then create a faster reaction to the throttle to give the effect of the sudden application of full power with no middle ground.

Hope that helps to explain our thinking behind this a little bit.


Gotcha! In that case, it's another level or two deeper. If you know the MOI is plausibly accurate, but the power off response is not acceptable (how was the power on respose, slow or okay?)....then there are a couple of possibilities. Using the modified version of Newton's second Law; sum of external moments = MOI*angular acceleration; it has to be one of the external moments.

One of the most prominent possibilities is the prop power coefficient. It's a big ugly table to edit, and is the more obscure of two primary power off propeller torque inputs (where the other is cylinder friction). All the values in the Camel's table are positive and that's unusual, as they should dive to zero and then into the negative with increasing advance ratio (image below). It's not at all intuitive, but the negative CP region defines the power off response. Probably goes beyond the scope of the project, but is little more information none the less.

Kindest Regards,
John

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/17394463/Cp%20vs%20J.png

[warchild]

Gotcha! In that case, it's another level or two deeper. If you know the MOI is plausibly accurate, but the power off response is not acceptable (how was the power on respose, slow or okay?)....then there are a couple of possibilities. Using the modified version of Newton's second Law; sum of external moments = MOI*angular acceleration; it has to be one of the external moments.

One of the most prominent possibilities is the prop power coefficient. It's a big ugly table to edit, and is the more obscure of two primary power off propeller torque inputs (where the other is cylinder friction). All the values in the Camel's table are positive and that's unusual, as they should dive to zero and then into the negative with increasing advance ratio (image below). It's not at all intuitive, but the negative CP region defines the power off response. Probably goes beyond the scope of the project, but is little more information none the less.

Kindest Regards,
John

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/17394463/Cp%20vs%20J.png

Yeahhh.. the imposing agent here was time. i didnt feel we had the time to do the prop table propperly. also, if you look at prop efficiency, you'll see that its a very weird table.. i'd never seen anything like that before and frankly, it unnerved me, so i left it alone as much as possible..
But yeahh, technically the moi on that prop with a 345 pound engine attached should be around 129 or so.. So when Paul told me what he needed the moi to be, i blew a fuse :;lol:;..

[JohnC]

Yeahhh.. the imposing agent here was time. i didnt feel we had the time to do the prop table propperly. also, if you look at prop efficiency, you'll see that its a very weird table.. i'd never seen anything like that before and frankly, it unnerved me, so i left it alone as much as possible..
But yeahh, technically the moi on that prop with a 345 pound engine attached should be around 129 or so.. So when Paul told me what he needed the moi to be, i blew a fuse :;lol:;..


FSX Stock Prop Tables = Camel Dung (saying from an old prof I had)

You did a great job Pam.

:applause:

[warchild]

Its all craigs fault. his work just kept getting better and better.. I had to keep up ya know ;).. thanks John :)

[Daube]

Thanks for these explanations about the engine torque and prop MOI.
The edition of the flight model really looks like a nightmare for a developper :blind:

[Bruce Thompson]

I have tried the guns and noticed that the sound kept shooting after the gun flashes had stopped for up to half a second to a full second. There is an easy fix to this. Open the "fx_spandau_s" effect and correct the second entry (sound) with the following...

[Sound]
FileName=wwi_guns.wav
MinAttenuationDistance=500.00
Looping=False

It should bring the sound and flashes in sync.

Thank you for the HU on the gun sound fleurdelys, I have had the same problem.

I also have another looping sound after landing, like the undercarriage touchdown repeating over and over even after shutting down the engine.
Hitting the Q key does not stop it either, any idea's?

Bruce.

[FentiFlier1]

Well I took it for a spin this morning and it's challenging. Flying in clouds without an attitude indicator is one thing, flying this Camel in clouds without an attitude indicator is another :isadizzy:

[MudMarine]

I can't get it to download? Probably because I'm only a blue member.

[Pips]

I haven't had so much fun flapping around in an aeroplane in ages! Flying the Camel is pure joy. My most sncere thanks for the effort folks. You really have outdone yourselves!:jump:

[MDIvey]

MudMarine... I dont think you have to be in the Red to download(Do You?) but if so have you tried downloading directly from Craig's site...there are some links a few pages back (page 6)

Matt

[Roger]

Should be avaiable to both charter and non-charter members.

[fleurdelys]

Thank you for the HU on the gun sound fleurdelys, I have had the same problem.

I also have another looping sound after landing, like the undercarriage touchdown repeating over and over even after shutting down the engine.
Hitting the Q key does not stop it either, any idea's?

Bruce.

Bonjour Bruce,

I also have the same problem with the touchdown sound repeating over and over... :kilroy:

I have tried different approaches which have not worked :
- changing the touchdown sounds with other touchdown sounds; it still repeats itself, albeit differently.
- changing the sound file altogether; still repeating when the engine is shut down.

Since you and I seem to be the only ones affected with this problem, and we are both of the same age, I think that we may have been singled out... :icon_lol:

I have a theory that it could be a programming disfunction, meaning that the sound xml or whatever it is called is missing one part to tell the sound to shut up completely when the plane is no longer moving or the engine is shutdown and the pilot out to lunch...:salute:
But that is only a theory and above my paygrade. You might try to:

1. Ignore it altogether;

2. Hit the "Q" key which obliterates the sound completely after you finish rolling and shutdown the engine ...

Hope somebody else out there has a workable idea to help us out.

Cheers,

Fleurdelys

P.S.: in reference to my earlier tweak on the "Spandau" sound tweak, I wasn't completely satisfied and borrowed from another gun effect with a much better result as far a getting the effect to sync. Try this on for size...

[Library Effect]
Lifetime=5
Version=1.00
Radius=-1
Priority=0
[Sound]
FileName=wwi_guns.wav
MinAttenuationDistance=500.00
Looping=False

I don't have the foggiest idea as to what or why, but it seems to be working for me.

[Bruce Thompson]

Bonjour Bruce,

I also have the same problem with the touchdown sound repeating over and over... :kilroy:

I have tried different approaches which have not worked :
- changing the touchdown sounds with other touchdown sounds; it still repeats itself, albeit differently.
- changing the sound file altogether; still repeating when the engine is shut down.

Since you and I seem to be the only ones affected with this problem, and we are both of the same age, I think that we may have been singled out... :icon_lol:

I have a theory that it could be a programming disfunction, meaning that the sound xml or whatever it is called is missing one part to tell the sound to shut up completely when the plane is no longer moving or the engine is shutdown and the pilot out to lunch...:salute:
But that is only a theory and above my paygrade. You might try to:

1. Ignore it altogether;

2. Hit the "Q" key which obliterates the sound completely after you finish rolling and shutdown the engine ...

Hope somebody else out there has a workable idea to help us out.

Cheers,

Fleurdelys

P.S.: in reference to my earlier tweak on the "Spandau" sound tweak, I wasn't completely satisfied and borrowed from another gun effect with a much better result as far a getting the effect to sync. Try this on for size...

[Library Effect]
Lifetime=5
Version=1.00
Radius=-1
Priority=0
[Sound]
FileName=wwi_guns.wav
MinAttenuationDistance=500.00
Looping=False

I don't have the foggiest idea as to what or why, but it seems to be working for me.

Hi Fluerdelys

Thanks again for your help, I will give this new gun tweak a try this evening, will let you know how I get on.

With regard to the touchdown sound repeating over and over, I think we had this problem with another aircraft a short while ago,
but being nearly 67:isadizzy::isadizzy:: I can't remember where or when.

If I do find it I will let you know straight away, I think it was to do with contact points.

Regards

Bruce.

[dvj]

I am totally smitten by this model.

http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/7784/camel7.jpg

[Sieggie]

1. The Sopwith had a twin magneto ignition system. One magneto was used by pressing a button on the stick and would engage all nine cylinders or cut the power to that magneto. it was called the "blip" switch. The other magneto had a three position selector switch which allowed you to use either three, six, or all nine cylinders. there was no throttle as we know them today. The closest we can mimic this in FSX is to suggest that you fly withyour throttle at either 33%, 66% or 100% settings. You can also set up FSUIPC to create a type of "blip" switch too.

Love you all..
Pam

Pam, I understand the throttle setting simulating the 3, 6 or 9 cylinders, but what do you program into the blip switch?

I am guessing min throttle should be 33% not 0%?

Thanks,

Dave

[warchild]

I believe the blip switch was additive ( i could be wrong ). If the second magneto was set to 3 cylinders then the blip switch would kick in all nine cylinders and revert to the 3 cylinders when released. likewise if you were using 6 cylinders on the second magneto. of course, this is just my supposition. i truly do not know how else it may have worked.
In FSX Paul set up a sort of blip switch using fsuipc, but i simply set my throttle at the percentage that would provide approximates for the three magneto settings.

[jetstreamsky]

In FSX Paul set up a sort of blip switch using fsuipc.


and there's a good reason to get the full deal

[full]

Ok guys I've been looking into the sound issue after landing a can confirm that is the tail skid causing the problem.

You can get the new sound.cfg here ----> http://www.classicwings.net/freeplanes/Sopwith_Camel/sound.cfg

Please let me know if this fix's the issue. BTW nice screen shots everyone ! keep them coming :)

[Bomber_12th]

I've written a simple gauge that can be easily installed that mimics the blip switch. It is tied to the brake switch, so holding the brake switch on your controller will hold the blip switch on, and cuts the fuel to the engine until you release the brake switch and the fuel line is opened again. As a result, however, I have removed the gun effects and lowered the brake scaler to the point that the brakes themselves have no effect. I believe it was Bill Lyons who wrote such a gauge for the Dave Eckert model years ago, with the same principle, which I don't believe is available anywhere any longer (at least I couldn't find it), and that is what inspired me to try and do the same now. It needs more testing, as it requires also that the prop continues spinning longer after the fuel is cut (the prop on the Camel actually spins quite a while after the ignition is off), otherwise the RPM will often dip too low, even with a momentary 'blip', causing the engine to fully cut out too early before it can get going again.

If when after more testing/adjustments I'm happy with the results, I'll put up the gauge and info about any modifications needed in order to make it all function the best.

[glh]

I can't get it to download? Probably because I'm only a blue member.

It's also over at flightsim.com.

[full]

Sounds great John !! I'd definitely be interested in trying this out...

[fleurdelys]

Ok guys I've been looking into the sound issue after landing a can confirm that is the tail skid causing the problem.

You can get the new sound.cfg here ----> http://www.classicwings.net/freeplanes/Sopwith_Camel/sound.cfg

Please let me know if this fix's the issue. BTW nice screen shots everyone ! keep them coming :)


Merci beaucoup ... :icon29:


You have found a cure to the "bumpsy daisy"...:jump:


Cheers,

Fleurdelys

[full]

The aircraft.cfg goes into the main folder and the sound.cfg in the sound folder of the Sopwith Camel.

I've only made adjustments to the brakes section in the aircraft.cfg to have a scaler of 0.1 so you may not need this file.

http://www.classicwings.net/freeplanes/Sopwith_Camel/cfg_updates.zip

[Bruce Thompson]

full (Craig)

Thank you for the two files for the sound fix after landing, it works, :applause::applause::applause:

This is a wonderful aircraft, enjoying every second of time flying it, thanks again for the quick response.


Bruce.

[Bomber_12th]

Here's the 'blip switch' gauge and minor mods that I described earlier. Make sure to back-up your original Aircraft.cfg file and Panel.cfg file if you decide to try this out, incase you want to revert back to how it was, and don't want to have to re-download the aircraft all over again. The included Aircraft.cfg file is the latest version that Craig has provided in his last post. In the Aircraft.cfg file I have just increased the propeller MOI (so that it spins longer after the power is off) and decreased the brake scaler further. In the Panel.cfg file I have replaced the gun effects gauge with the blip switch gauge.

As mentioned earlier, this is meant to simulate the blip switch in FSX. The blip switch gauge ties your brake switch to the fuel cutoff - so as long as you hold the brakes switch on, the fuel will be cutoff, simulating the effect of pressing the blip switch. When you let go of the brake switch (the brakes themselves have no effect), the fuel will run again, and as long as the RPM's are high enough the engine will come back on. It's not exactly perfect - for instance, on my joystick, the brake switch has a bit of a lull in it, so that even after I release the switch the brakes still stay on for an extra second or so (not so great). You can feel how it should work, at its best, when you use the keyboard command for the brakes, as there is far less delay between brakes on/off.

I also want to add that this is open to anyone who would like to take it and see if it could be further improved upon.

[Naki]

Can't try this out until I get my FS PC up and running but looks like a great model!

I caught up with Peter Jackson's Camel at Warbirds over Wanaka in 2006. I was standing behind it when they were about to start it. Gene DeMarco suggested to a crowd of us that we should move away from behind it. Having never heard or seen a WW1 fighter before, I was thinking it's only a WW1 fighter what sort of wind blast would it have? Once it was underway I had a better understanding! The blast from the prop and noise from the un-mufflered Rotary was incredible. Was fantastic to see it in flight too with the blipping throttle with Gene at the controls. Soundwise it's up there with Merlin & Alison powered warbirds as one of my favourites.

Here's some snaps.
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l193/Naki_04/SopwithMedium.jpg
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l193/Naki_04/sopwith2Medium.jpg
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l193/Naki_04/sopwith3Medium.jpg

[Bruce Thompson]

Here's the 'blip switch' gauge and minor mods that I described earlier. Make sure to back-up your original Aircraft.cfg file and Panel.cfg file if you decide to try this out, incase you want to revert back to how it was, and don't want to have to re-download the aircraft all over again. The included Aircraft.cfg file is the latest version that Craig has provided in his last post. In the Aircraft.cfg file I have just increased the propeller MOI (so that it spins longer after the power is off) and decreased the brake scaler further. In the Panel.cfg file I have replaced the gun effects gauge with the blip switch gauge.

As mentioned earlier, this is meant to simulate the blip switch in FSX. The blip switch gauge ties your brake switch to the fuel cutoff - so as long as you hold the brakes switch on, the fuel will be cutoff, simulating the effect of pressing the blip switch. When you let go of the brake switch (the brakes themselves have no effect), the fuel will run again, and as long as the RPM's are high enough the engine will come back on. It's not exactly perfect - for instance, on my joystick, the brake switch has a bit of a lull in it, so that even after I release the switch the brakes still stay on for an extra second or so (not so great). You can feel how it should work, at its best, when you use the keyboard command for the brakes, as there is far less delay between brakes on/off.

I also want to add that this is open to anyone who would like to take it and see if it could be further improved upon.

Thanks Bomber_12th,

It works a treat but what did you program the guns to, they were set to the brake before so how have you set them now?

Regards

Bruce

[mgchrist5]

John,
Thanks a bundle for the blip switch gauge. What a neat bit of period functionality. I can't wait to try it out.

Bruce,
I think the compromise is that the gun effects no longer work. From a few posts ago on this page:


As a result, however, I have removed the gun effects and lowered the brake scaler to the point that the brakes themselves have no effect.

[Bomber_12th]

Well that was the catch with those files I provided, as the gun effects were canceled out.

Here is a better, alternative option that allows you to keep both the gun effects and the blip switch, and they will operate on different controls. With these files attached to this post installed, the gun effects remain tied to the brake switch, and the blip switch is now tied to the primer code (you see, the 'blip switch' should be tied to a FSX key that operates as a spring-loaded key, so that the blip switch is only on as long as you are holding the switch in).

You will need to assign a key on your controller to the primer command in the FSX controls menu, and make sure that the slider is on repeat, so that as long as you are holding the switch down, FSX will recognize that. Despite the fact that the gauge is linked to the primer control, it will have no effect other than to turn the fuel on/off with whatever key you assigned to the primer command.

There is no need to download the files in my previous post, if you haven't already.

BTW, when operating the aircraft with the 'blip switch', you might find that it sounds more authentic if you remove the shutdown sounds. If you know your way around adding gauges to other aircraft, this 'blip switch' gauge should work just as a well on any of your other rotary engined aircraft.

[full]

Thanks John I'll try this when I get home tonight.

Sent from my HUAWEI U8815 using Tapatalk 2

[FentiFlier1]

John, I'm seriously enjoying your gauge - thanks! :ernae:

What sound does fsx play when the fuel is cut? Does it go straight to the shutdown sound or is the non-combustion sound played before that?
I was wondering if it would be possible to somehow link the Rpm1 sound to the blip (in fact fuel cutoff)...

And another question: Do you know if the Fokker Dr.1 have the same system? In that case I'll install your gauge with that plane too.

Owen

[Bomber_12th]

Owen, I just tested it out on the Neoqb Fokker Dr.1, and it works just fine with it as well - all you have to do is just slip the gauge into the Panel folder and add the gauge entry into the VC panel section, nothing else. With the Neoqb Dr.1 as well, it seems to sound more authentic to have the shutdown and non combustion sounds removed, so that all you should hear when the power is off is the prop spinning down.

[Bruce Thompson]

Thank you John for your help with this, I will try the V2 blip switch this evening.

I will also try it in the DR1.

Many thanks John.


Bruce.


p.s. It work s great in both the Camel and the DR1. thanks again John.

[FentiFlier1]

Thanks John. Flying the camel by switching between 1/3, 2/3 and 3/3 throttle and using the blip gives a new experience in FS. It's fun and feels "vintage" alright!

What do you guys think of this idea (is it daft?): If I have understood correctly, the Camel has three power settings (3cyl, 6cyl, 9cyl). The blip switch can be used to momentarily to go from 9 to 3 or from 6 to 3. It has no use when you are already down to 3.

Would it be possible to duplicate the Rpm1 sound and rename it noncombust, thus obtaining lower power sounds when engaging the blip?
Would the loss of non-combustion sounds be problematic?

Just a thought.

[Bomber_12th]

Actually the Gnome engine, for which you are describing, ran on four settings. Through the selector mag, you could run it at 1/8-speed (1 cylinder will fire every revolution, but always a different cylinder), 1/4-speed, 1/2-speed, and full-speed (when in flight, if you want to slow down with the Gnome, you would often not use the blip switch, but you would flip the selector mag back and forth between full speed and 1/2 speed, or full speed and 1/4-speed, etc.). Because of running it off of a selector mag setup like this, and not a conventional throttle, the Gnome has the destinctive 'popping' and 'blurp' sounds when switching to lower speeds or between speeds. The other, more common rotary engines of that period (Le Clerget, Le Rhone, Bentley) didn't have a selector mag, and you controlled the speed via a conventional throttle. As a result, with those engines (the Camel actually really didn't see much operation during WWI with the Gnome, but rather with the other engines mentioned), you don't get those types of sounds.

I made a Gnome 9N engine sound set years ago for the Dave Eckert model, but it was lost from the SOH server a few years ago. If anyone still happens to have a copy of that sound set, it would be awesome to have in re-uploaded, but I can't believe anyone would still have it. In that sound set, for the four different engine sound states, I used sound clips from the four different mag selector switch states, so you get the various levels of popping as you lower/increase the throttle. All other rotary engine sound sets that have been made, including the one incorporated with this release, depict an engine like the Clerget, which runs off of a conventional throttle and blip switch, and doesn't have the unique 'popping' that the Gnome does. I still have the original Gnome 9N sounds that I used to make the sound set originally, and I'll work on putting a sound set together again.

[Tim-HH]

I always liked the Camel since I first flew her in Flight Simulator 5.1. Therefore it's just great to now also have a Camel for FSX! And especially when it's such an excellent one :jump:

http://s14.directupload.net/images/130214/l3azoepu.jpg

http://s14.directupload.net/images/130214/sslx7woa.jpg

http://s1.directupload.net/images/130214/8vg2ypdv.jpg

Thanks a lot for this beautiful aircraft! :applause:

Greetings
Tim

[dandog]

I checked all of the CD's and DVD's I have burned since 2005 ( I burn everything I downloaded starting in 2005 when I first got into FS9). I know I had a Gnome-Rhone sound set, but I failed to find it! I will keep looking.:isadizzy:

[Lionheart]

Beautiful work, Craig and team! Beautiful....

[Bomber_12th]

Thank you Dandog! Tim-HH actually found the soundset within his files and sent it to me a littler earlier today.

Tim also located in his files that original blip switch gauge that I remembered was created way back at the time that the Dave Eckert model came out for FS2004, and going by memory, I believe was written by Bill Lyons. I tested it out, having re-written a bit of it so that the function would remain tied to the primer key, and it works much better than the code I had. Now, the power will turn off/on the very instant that you press/release your controller key, rather than the problematic delay that there was in my previous blip switch code, in which the power wouldn't turn back on until about a second or more after releasing the key. In this case, it is the mixture that is being controlled to turn the engine on and off when pressing/holding/releasing the key.

Here's 'V3', which I have to think will be the last version. Tomorrow I'll upload the gauge file and the old Gnome soundset to the library, combined together. (Thanks again Tim!)

[mgchrist5]

Thanks, John! V3 works perfectly. As someone else noted on here, it makes a great addition to the Dr1, too. Good stuff...

[Bruce Thompson]

Thank you John, V3 in both aircraft is working great, I look forward to your Gnome sound file,
this will complete an already wonderful aircraft.


Bruce.

[Roger]

I am so enjoying this model! I wonder though if anyone knows how to activate elevator trim? I've looked at the aircraft.cfg file and all the usual entries are there but ajusting the values makes no difference, there is no trim. I just want to make it a little easier to control.

[FentiFlier1]

I am so enjoying this model! I wonder though if anyone knows how to activate elevator trim? I've looked at the aircraft.cfg file and all the usual entries are there but ajusting the values makes no difference, there is no trim. I just want to make it a little easier to control.


Aching legs too, Roger? :) It really is flown on the rudder isn't it?

Owen.

[warchild]

I am so enjoying this model! I wonder though if anyone knows how to activate elevator trim? I've looked at the aircraft.cfg file and all the usual entries are there but ajusting the values makes no difference, there is no trim. I just want to make it a little easier to control.

afraid the trim settings are completely zeroed out.. As it sits, it constantly needs a bit of down elevator to keep her level.. With Pauls viewpoint setting though, its just a matter of keeping the "ball" ( wire stay keeper in front of the pilot ) just touching the horizon to keep it level.
However. if you can allow me a couple days, I'll quick turn the trim back on :)..

[dandog]

Just my 2 cents plain, but this a challenging, yet rewarding plane to virtually fly. Seems to handle like the real deal. However, it "appears" to get airborne almost too soon. All of the video I watched showed it did have some decent ground roll prior to being airborne (longer than I am experiencing). Otherwise, at altitude it's almost hands-off flying. It is a handful on the ground, but quite manageable if you remember to add some right rudder and right aileron when taking off or landing. Juice it a little on touch down if you feel a ground loop coming on, and she straightens right out. Bravo, in my humble opinion. Now off to Lukla :icon_eek:.

It's not your father's C150, but that's a good thing.

Daniel

[Roger]

afraid the trim settings are completely zeroed out.. As it sits, it constantly needs a bit of down elevator to keep her level.. With Pauls viewpoint setting though, its just a matter of keeping the "ball" ( wire stay keeper in front of the pilot ) just touching the horizon to keep it level.
However. if you can allow me a couple days, I'll quick turn the trim back on :)..

Thanks Pam it might give me some edge with my hands full, lol:ernae:

[fleurdelys]

Aching legs too, Roger? :) It really is flown on the rudder isn't it?

Owen.

Now, let's give the rocking chairs a break... :sleep:

Remember that these were flown by kids still wet behind their ears... :icon_lol:

Fleurdelys

[dandog]

Some of them probably wound up wet in the pants too!

[delta558]

With regard to the ground roll on take off, we used several videos (as we did with much of the flight model) to give us an idea of what we would be aiming for. Generally, the run would be in the region of six seconds, with full right stick until you lift off and only a couple of dabs of rudder just to keep the aircraft going in a straight line.
These were the main two videos which gave us that, both being the 160hp Gnome engine:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kf0IleR8l-M (40 seconds in)

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFZ6hTvSpbQ

[Crusader]

Absolutely love flying this plane . It is a hand full as the real one I'm sure . Talk about " stick and rudder". Can you imagine what these young men must have gone through not only just trying to handle it but the conditions(No CHUTES !). Anyway , stumbled across some WWl scenery at a site that a lot of you are probably already aware of but new to me ; http://taskforcefsx.com/Escadrille.html Scenery is at the bottom of the page . Also there is a FSX version of "The Old Rhinebeck Aerdrome" at flightsim.com "rhinebeck.zip . Joe Binka(I hope I have his name right) put out an excellent Old Rhinebeck scenery for FS9 that was two or three parts and an AI file that went with it but I've never tried it in FSX . (I should say Prepar3D---I no longer have FSX loaded anymore)

Thanks Craig and Matt for this excellent release :applause:

Rich

[FentiFlier1]

Now, let's give the rocking chairs a break... :sleep:

Remember that these were flown by kids still wet behind their ears... :icon_lol:

Fleurdelys


lol :icon_lol:

Want shapely legs? Forget crappy wii workouts, fly the camel!

Camel pilots must have been recognisable by their massive right thighs.

[Stan V.]

Well that was the catch with those files I provided, as the gun effects were canceled out.

Here is a better, alternative option that allows you to keep both the gun effects and the blip switch, and they will operate on different controls. With these files attached to this post installed, the gun effects remain tied to the brake switch, and the blip switch is now tied to the primer code (you see, the 'blip switch' should be tied to a FSX key that operates as a spring-loaded key, so that the blip switch is only on as long as you are holding the switch in).

You will need to assign a key on your controller to the primer command in the FSX controls menu, and make sure that the slider is on repeat, so that as long as you are holding the switch down, FSX will recognize that. Despite the fact that the gauge is linked to the primer control, it will have no effect other than to turn the fuel on/off with whatever key you assigned to the primer command.

There is no need to download the files in my previous post, if you haven't already.

BTW, when operating the aircraft with the 'blip switch', you might find that it sounds more authentic if you remove the shutdown sounds. If you know your way around adding gauges to other aircraft, this 'blip switch' gauge should work just as a well on any of your other rotary engined aircraft.

Just a quick note - This works but if you modify the primer key control as suggested here and forget to restore it when you finish (as I did), you will lose your ability to start MilViz's F-86 Sabre. Removing the primer control repeat setting, however, will quickly restore the F-86 functionality.

[stiz]

With regard to the ground roll on take off, we used several videos (as we did with much of the flight model) to give us an idea of what we would be aiming for. Generally, the run would be in the region of six seconds, with full right stick until you lift off and only a couple of dabs of rudder just to keep the aircraft going in a straight line.
These were the main two videos which gave us that, both being the 160hp Gnome engine:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kf0IleR8l-M (40 seconds in)

and

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFZ6hTvSpbQ

also just for the sake of it, some original footage from ww1 (50 secs in) :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDz5Yoh6E9I

[jeansy]

oh well i couldnt help myself

4 Sqn Australian Flying Corps WWI

http://aussiex.org/forum/uploads/gallery/album_139/gallery_11700_139_203990.png

[Bomber_12th]

Very nice Jeansy! Both the paint scheme and the screenshot look great.

Speaking of the Sopwith Camel and takeoff, all of the pilot reports I have read (and the videos show it), the aircraft usually surprises first-time Camel pilots, by just how fast it wants to get off the ground. With this aircraft in FSX (same as with the Neoqb Dr.1), I like to keep some down stick, keeping the aircraft on the ground a bit longer, and not letting it fly off until the torque effect is lowered (which happens in FSX as the aircraft gets faster). In the pilot report that Pips posted a couple of pages back, it mentions the surprise of finding the aircraft taking off at 35 mph, and after a takeoff run of no more than 150 ft.

This is some great footage of the Brooklands Museum's le Clerget powered Sopwith Camel, when being flown in the late 80's. If I recall, most Camels during WWI were powered by le Clerget engines (which the sounds and throttle setup that come with Craig and Matt's Camel matches), and would have sounded and responded as this one does in the video. Note that, in this video, you can hear the blip switch being used for landing and taxi (despite the fact that le Clerget's and other rotary engines had a more/less conventional throttle, unlike the Gnome). Note also how slow the aircraft lands, and how fast it comes to a stop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxO-co1ezGM

I don't believe the Brooklands Camel has flown for a while, but it was on display at Old Warden last year, where it was given some engine runs for the crowd (as shown in the video below). Note that the le Clerget engines, and other throttled rotary engines, have perhaps a more 'refined' sound than the Gnome's, as these videos of this le Clerget powered Camel illustrate (compared to those that you can find of the Old Rhinebeck and Vintage Aviator Camels). Leaving everything as is with Craig and Matt's Camel (save perhaps for dropping the Hp from 160 down to 130), it comes very accurate to depicting a le Clerget powered Camel (for its throttle, sound, and engine setup (if, as I say, the Hp is dropped to 130)). With this engine, as with the Bentley's and le Rhone's, you have more/less smooth power changes, rather than the switching back and forth between different numbers of cylinders firing as you do with the Gnome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=knfADySOEL0

[dandog]

My bad, pilot error. After watching video's of Camels, I realize that using more forward stick and extending the ground roll to the six second mark makes for a very smooth and controlled take-off. It just wants to leap off the ground in a heart beat. Possible, but not suggested.

Daniel

[warchild]

My bad, pilot error. After watching video's of Camels, I realize that using more forward stick and extending the ground roll to the six second mark makes for a very smooth and controlled take-off. It just wants to leap off the ground in a heart beat. Possible, but not suggested.

Daniel


:salute:

[warchild]

81149

81150

couldnt resist

[dandog]

Hello. I tried to fly up to Lukla, but couldn't get over 9500 ft. I took off from Lukla, but immediately fell to 95200 ft. I was under the impression that the service ceiling was 21000 ft. Lukla is listed at 10,000 ft. I leaned and did what I could. What did I miss? Currently chalking it up to pilot error.

Daniel

ps. tried to fly from St. Juliana to St Barths, but just couldn't finesse a landing at St. Barths. Deffinatey pilot error.

[warchild]

Hello. I tried to fly up to Lukla, but couldn't get over 9500 ft. I took off from Lukla, but immediately fell to 95200 ft. I was under the impression that the service ceiling was 21000 ft. Lukla is listed at 10,000 ft. I leaned and did what I could. What did I miss? Currently chalking it up to pilot error.

Daniel



You didnt miss anything Daniel.. For the 170 hp Le Rhone Engine the service ceiling is 21000 feet.. Should take about thirty minutes to climb there.. Mind you though, the Allies didnt use oxygen. That was a German invention. However I digress.. We tested the plane up through 10000 feet too what we thought "get the lift right" . You should reach 10000 feet after approx. 10 minutes.. 15000 feet after 17 minutes. technically however 15000 feet should be as high as you can go without oxygen. Above that, you start to experience hypoxia rather quickly. Of course they didnt know a lot about that at the time..
truthfully, we didnt test to max altitude because of the amount of time it takes to get that high, and the fact that most flying in this plane was done between 5000 and 10000 feet.. .
We'll go back and run some more tests and should it require it we'll release an update to correct the lift. I promise..
Pam

[Bomber_12th]

I don't know if it was the cause or not of the problem, Daniel (it wouldn't have been, if you don't have it installed), but on a recent flight I discovered a fault with the way in which I had the most recent blip switch gauge coded. With the most recent blip switch gauge, it makes it so that the mixture is either 'full rich' or 'off', and when you try to lean the mixture manually, the mixture lever will just go back to either setting, depending on the state of the 'blip switch' key.

Modifying it once more, in this blip switch gauge code, it's the same as the last, but I have reverted back to the method of the fuel being turned on/off when using the blip switch, as I had originally, but this time it works just as well as my last gauge. Now you'll have full control over the mixture. Having just tested it out, I was flying at 12,000 ft, with the mixture leaned, just aft of the middle position, and was maintaining 1200 RPM (the engine produces 1300 RPM at sea level).

[dandog]

Thanks Warchild and Bomber_12th. I am so into flying this little one that I am taking it to all of the toughest airports I can find (flying from another airport into the toughy and back out again). This should help sharpen the old stick 'n rudder skills.

[kremin]

............. but this time it works just as well as my last gauge. Now you'll have full control over the mixture. .............

Thanks John............looking forward to the Gnome sounds..........


best regards
Rick Canham
South Australia
:australia:

[Dev One]

Must try V4, but I find that in the approach using V3, the engine stops completely & needs a restart....so have changed to using F1 or F4 (throttle cut/throttle full).
Modified FDE good for the elev trim, only need 4 clicks nose down, but admit that I also use aileron trim (ctrl+6/ctrl+4) to ease the aileron load. Could try increasing the roll to rudder factor I suppose? Although in the field I suspect the riggers would have twisted the wings with the flying & landing wires??
Still having fun trying to master the beast in calm weather.......how about windy turbulent stuff!!
Would like to find a way of getting torque effect with power max or min....difficult I should think within the limitations of FS - have tried with little success increasing the prop MOI.
Thanks Pam for a nice FDE & the boys for a fine model.
Keith

[dandog]

I think the max crosswind component is about zero mph. But seriously, it's seriously fun to fly!

[dandog]

I think the max crosswind component is about zero mph. But seriously, it's seriously fun to fly! Now back to Lukla!

Sorry about the semi double post.

ps. Use Cumulus X and use the thermals. What fun!

[big-mike]

I just noticed that i haven`t said thank you to Craig,Matt,Pam,John and evreybody else who brought us this outstanding Camel.
Absolutely amazing work and so much fun to fly.:jump:
Michael

[warchild]

Paul ran some tests yesterday.. He was able to get it to 15000 feet in around 17 minutes.. it wasnt exact, and it wasnt perfect, but it was close.. I'm not sure of where the lift problem for some folks is coming in. i'd really like to understand it though as Paul and I have two machines so diametrically opposite each other it takes three months to get them both to fly the same way after a minor change in the config file. If anyone could offer insight into these problems, please do feel free to tell us..
Thanks
Pam

[Roger]

Pam, I've had it up to 13000' and could have gone higher but it was slow progress so I dropped back down to 8000' where the Camel and I are happier, lol!.

[Bone]

Very nice model, thanks for making it available. It's a lot of fun to 'fly', although I now a have a renewed appreciation for aileron and rudder trim, lol.

[warchild]

Pam, I've had it up to 13000' and could have gone higher but it was slow progress so I dropped back down to 8000' where the Camel and I are happier, lol!.

::ROFLMAO:: I'll be honest.. Thats why i never took it up that high.. i'm gettin old and i dont know that i have that long to live ::lol::..besides, unlike other aircraft, the one thing i noticed ( for those with extreme fears of heights like i have ) is that as you get higher and higher in this bird, the more you come to realize just how tiny and vulnerable you are. Its really scary for me, even in a simulator.. Weird huh??

[warchild]

Very nice model, thanks for making it available. It's a lot of fun to 'fly', although I now a have a renewed appreciation for aileron and rudder trim, lol.

Bone..
Your not alone.. I consider myself to be the worlds laziest pilot. Set the trim and let the plane fly while i admire the scenery.. Theres so much more to this plane though that for me makes up for the loss of trim that its become rather addicting.. really, i'd rather fly this than my big pretty 737. when i land ( if i land instead of collide with the ground ) I walk away with a greater sense of satisfaction and accomplishment.. Silly i know, but true..

[Penzoil3]

LOL Sue
81383

[warchild]

yup..
a trick i learned is that once on the ground, as the tail lowers, center the rudder and aileron so that as the tail touches the ground, stick and rudder return to center.. and then pray there's no crosswind..

[Mr.Mugel]

Hey, first off, I want to thank you for this old crate, very well done!

About the blip switch. Does anyone know what the primer key is labeled on a german copy of FS? It´s my mothers tongue, but some of those translations are so weird, and I did not yet find the primer in the FSX settings. Or is there a way known to set the interface to english? Or can the button be set in a .cfg file maybe?

Did a flight this morning using Ctrl+Shift F1/F4 during approach, but that kind of killed the immersion....

[Tim-HH]

Does anyone know what the primer key is labeled on a german copy of FS?

It's called "Einspritzung (sperren)". Whatever they want to express with "sperren"... :mixedsmi:

Greetings
Tim

[Mr.Mugel]

Ah, I saw that one, but I couldn´t get what this could have to do with a priming system. Thank you, will try that one later on!

[full]

Hi guys, I have a small update for you !

The update includes a few new paints by Fleurdelys (Jean-Robert Turcot) and two new engine cowl textures, also included are the following

Blip switch V4 (John Terrell)
Updated sound.cfg
Specular maps for the metal engine parts.

http://www.classicwings.net/freeplanes/Sopwith_Camel/Sopwith_Camel_UpdateV2.zip

If you've made any modifications yourself please back up those modified files ;)

Have fun.

[Roger]

Thanks again Craig:ernae:

[big-mike]

Thank you very much,Craig----very nice update.:applause:
Michael

[MDIvey]

I wish I'd known this update to the metal parts was in the pipeline...spent monday afternoon playing with the metal textures to try and get a less bright look, but what you and fleurdelys have come up with is just right....thankyou both.

Matt

[MDIvey]

Small thing I've just noticed with latest version is that I'm only getting smoke when I press the blip switch... I would have expected it to be other way round...constant smoke with a break when the blip switch is pressed?

Matt

[full]

Hey Matt,

My fault I missed something in the aircraft.cfg

This line needs changing

smoke.2 = 8, 2.8, 0, -1.7, fx_smoke_camel

to

light.2 = 8, 2.8, 0, -1.7, fx_smoke_camel

I will re-upload the update package so this edit is included.

[MDIvey]

Thanks Craig...let us know when its up.

When things settle down and you're happy with everything would you consider putting the whole revised package up as a single download

I keep noticeing things you've changed and improved... Spoke impressions on wheel covers for example :icon_lol:

Matt

[fleurdelys]

Thanks Craig...let us know when its up.

When things settle down and you're happy with everything would you consider putting the whole revised package up as a single download

I keep noticeing things you've changed and improved... Spoke impressions on wheel covers for example :icon_lol:

Matt

Thank you Matt for noticing this small detail... :icon29:

I always wonder whether simmers will notice these small details which contribute in a little way to the overall view ... :kilroy:

Seeing that you have, then I'll keep adding them, if not for the enjoyment of most, at least for your own and mine... :salute:

After WWI, the war to end all wars, the unrest which had started in Russia with the
Bolshevik revolution threatened to spill over in neighbouring countries which
prompted some of them to arm themselves in return.

Some Britsh pilots even flew for the so called Estonian Aviation Company in 1919, a
semi-military organization recruited mostly from British aviators to defend the
Baltic states against the Bolsheviks. Now, that does ring a familiar bell, doesn't
it...

The Latvian Air Force, circa 1920, was also geering up with wartime airplanes. The
Letts received a few Sopwitn Camels (N6750, N7143, N8136, N8137, N8185, N8187, and
N8189) as well as other wartime British aircrafts.

The Poles as well as the Bolsheviks (captured aircraft) also managed to equip
themselves with this sprite fighter.

Therefore, along with the above mentioned "Poland_F5234" and "Bolshevik_1920" which
have been included in the Update V2 prepared by Craig, I am presently putting the
finishing touches to "Estonia" and "Latvia" which were all involved in the same time
frame of the Bolshevik revolution.

It should be noted that my textures are rendered in 2048 x 2048 whereas the
"alternates" done by Craig are in 1024 x 1024 which will make it easier to
distinguish between textures for the following texture update...

I must admit that I have spoilt myself with the weathering of these last two wartime
aircrafts and plan to upload also the specific updated weathered textures for my earlier efforts in a few days. This will include all the little bits and pieces that might have escaped me along the way.

All and all, this was an exciting contribution to an exciting biplane aircraft. I
must thank Craig for agreeing to let me pitch in my 2 cents worth in his masterful
rendition of an iconic aircraft. I can only hope that he will pursue his endeavours
in this particular era as there are a lot of other aircrafts just begging for his
creativity.

Cheers,

Fleurdelys

[fleurdelys]

Here's a screenshot of the Estonian Camel.

[MDIvey]

They are nice paints Fleurdelys

dont suppose while your at it you'd fancy doing this one?....

http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2007/05/stuff_eng_gronczewski_camel.htm (http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2007/05/stuff_eng_gronczewski_camel.htm)

I like the fact it has the all Battleship grey front end that became more common on the Snipe

I did try to persuade Craig to do it for me, but I think by that point he'd had enough of camel painting which is understandable.

We have discussed a possible further colaboration like theCamel, because it has been so much fun to use... and I have on order some books with drawings on the Sopwith Pup, RE8 and Bristol Bulldog... but all I can say at the moment is we will see.

Matt

[MDIvey]

I meant to say Fleurdelys I liked the Metal turned cowl finish you did on that special cowl texture and I did a modified version of it with all the metal done like that... for my own use. I've added it to "Wonga Bonga" as that was the only one I thought I saw in some picture with that finish. I dont think it tended to last long after the aircraft reached the front.

Matt

[fleurdelys]

They are nice paints Fleurdelys

dont suppose while your at it you'd fancy doing this one?....

http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2007/05/stuff_eng_gronczewski_camel.htm (http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2007/05/stuff_eng_gronczewski_camel.htm)

I like the fact it has the all Battleship grey front end that became more common on the Snipe

I did try to persuade Craig to do it for me, but I think by that point he'd had enough of camel painting which is understandable.

We have discussed a possible further colaboration like theCamel, because it has been so much fun to use... and I have on order some books with drawings on the Sopwith Pup, RE8 and Bristol Bulldog... but all I can say at the moment is we will see.

Matt

Bonjour Matt,

Took a look at your request and it has a serious paint chipping problem...
Would you mind if I toned it down a bit, at least on the canvas portion as I doubt that paint chipping would have really occurred on canvas.


Do you want it as clean as shown in IPMS or with added weathering ? (it's the same price for one option or the other)...:icon_lol:
As you mentioned, they wouldn't stay clean for long in the field.
Your three projects possibilities would be great (with my first preference going for the Bulldog)... :jump:

Will take a few days to complete.

Cheers,

Fleurdelys

[MDIvey]

Thanks Fleurdelys

I'd be happy with as shown and any light weathering you fancy adding... just be happy to see one like this.

Matt

[Roger]

...We have discussed a possible further colaboration like theCamel, because it has been so much fun to use... and I have on order some books with drawings on the Sopwith Pup, RE8 and Bristol Bulldog... but all I can say at the moment is we will see.

Matt

I'd love to see a "Harry Tate" for FsX!

[MDIvey]

Craig and I's taste in WWI aircraft is very similar. The Pup is No1 for him and I'm leaning that way but it will depend on the quality of the references and which way the wind is blowing when I start forging pixels into shape :icon_lol: I think the Pup would be quicker to produce because I can use a lot of the parts I've created for the Camel.

Fleurdelys... I didnt answer you question about the peeling paint on that repaint... No I didnt like that either... I suppose it could be some sort of primer showing through but personally I wouldnt bother with it. It might be nice to have some of the paint peeling on the metalwork so you can see a bit of metal through the Battleship grey here and there, but I tend to think with that sort of thing a little looks better than a lot.

Matt

[fleurdelys]

Craig and I's taste in WWI aircraft is very similar. The Pup is No1 for him and I'm leaning that way but it will depend on the quality of the references and which way the wind is blowing when I start forging pixels :icon_lol: I think the Pup would be quicker to produce because I can use a lot of the parts I've created for the Camel.

Fleurdelys... I didnt answer you question about the peeling paint on that repaint... No I didnt like that either... I suppose it could be some sort of primer showing through but personally I wouldnt bother with it. It might be nice to have some of the paint peeling on the metalwork so you can see a bit of metal through the Battleship grey here and there, but I tend to think with that sort of thing a little looks better than a lot.

Matt

Hi Matt,

I'm glad that our tastes also meet on the paint peeling...

I indulged in research on the subject prior to getting underway with the paint and found some nice info on this Canadian ace. Found a few profiles at the usual places and only one (partial) pic of the peeled paint to vouch for the authenticity of your reference...
I agree with you that we could restrain ourselves with the paint chipping and yes, I did intend to do some chipping on the metal parts as I've already done on some of my Camel repaints. The wheel covers on the profiles all seem to be of the same colour as the main airframe but as I love "red", I will use it along with the spokes faint representation.
I'm a bit baffled by the choice of the main airframe base colour on your reference (Raw umber) as most profiles seem to favour the more greenish khaki found on Craig's paints. As I've tried it on (Raw umber) and it is not that far off, I will use it to get as close to your reference as possible...
It could be that the profiles found were for his mount at an earlier date as the partial picture does show the use of light grey on the cowling and the side of the cockpit as in your reference.
It should be ready this weekend and I will upload it along with the others.

Cheers,

Fleurdelys

[MDIvey]

Look forward to seeing it

Matt

[MDIvey]

82174

Fleurdelys...This was the engined turned cowl I came up with using your cowl texture and a modified spec texture... quite like it on this model.

Matt

[fleurdelys]

82174

Fleurdelys...This was the engined turned cowl I came up with using your cowl texture and a modified spec texture... quite like it on this model.

Matt

Nice ! That was the era where they put some nice touches to metal before the chrome effects on cars... :icon_lol:
As you said earlier, that finish would not have stayed bright and shiny for long in the field.

I've taken a few WIP shots of your request and I must insist that this plane was in bad need of a paint job (pun intended) ...:isadizzy:

[fleurdelys]

And a last one...

This plane is really photogenic ! In the same class as the HE-51, I would add... :icon29:

Fleurdelys

[MDIvey]

Superb... Thankyou. Let us know when and where its available.

Matt

[fleurdelys]

Superb... Thankyou. Let us know when and where its available.

Matt

I still have a few details to take care of such as the wheel struts (burnt umber) and then revisit the overall weathering to make everything fit together before updloading it. Tomorrow I would say. That goes for "Estonia", "Latvia" and "Greece" also.

I usually only post at Sim-Outhouse and digressed once which is for Craig's update. If he would allow me to send him a copy to post on his website, I would be glad to post it there also.

Fleurdelys

[lucas81]

Hello,
sorry, I was away for a few months. Sorry for posting so late, but I would like to congratulate the whole team for releasing such a wonderful plane! Congratulations, she is awesome!

Lucas

[MDIvey]

Lucas...wasnt the A2A/Aircraft factory Albatross CII your model... superb model. Its great to see more of these era models appearing in FSX. I hope you will be doing some more... I always preferred the III and V models with their streamlined propeller spinners for looks but the CII is still very ellegant.

Fleurdelys... thanks for the MacLaren paint... very pleased with it.

Matt

[Daube]

These new repaints look fantastic ! I really like the new metal texture. Excellent job ! :ernae:

[fleurdelys]

Still going through history books on that particular era which started near the end of WWI (October 1917) and spilled over to the early 1920's...

Although reeling from the last conflict, 14 nations sent men to help the "White" armies contain the Bolshevik revolution...

I'm working on a particular texture of a British Camel from the 1st B.A.C. (British Air Corps) which was shot down and captured by the Bolshevik Red Army troops on August 29th, 1919 in the Petrozavodsk area (capital city of Soviet Carelia).

I'm also trying a new type of weathering (at least for me) which is rain streaks on canvas...

Do you like or is it too much ?

Looking forward to your comments...

Fleurdelys

[MDIvey]

Personal opinion only... seems a bit heavy on the weathering to me but I could be wrong. I would expect that if a machine got that bad it would be recovered. Also I'm not really familiar with the colouring of post war WW1 Camels. For me what Craig has done is bang on for WW1 RFC & RNAS machines but beyond that I dont really know. I've never seen any photos that show clearly such heavy weathering but that doesnt mean to say there arent any. Do them to suit yourself... your putting in the work.... and enjoy the fruits of your labours. The great thing about doing your own paints is that you can have them how you want them.

Matt

[dougal]

What can I say, other than oh wow!!! Very late to the party with this as currently rebuilding my FSX machine and reinstalling etc.

A HUUUUUUGE thanks to ALL involved with beautiful creation. Not only for producing such a peice of art and history, but making it FREELY available.

THAN YOU!

One question if I may.... Having just ploughed through the entire thread, I'm a little confused (doesn't take much these days!). Does the v2 include all the little tweaks here and there, or do I still need to make any changes?

[fleurdelys]

..."seems a bit heavy on the weathering to me but I could be wrong. I would expect that if a machine got that bad it would be recovered".

I seem to recall a texture done lately where the picture used for reference showed paint peeling to the extent that it would have given points to a bad case of sunburn and skin peeling... :icon_lol:

Weathering is a state of use (not abuse) whereas the object will show various signs (interior and exterior) that it is no longer new but does show wear (not tear) in various forms such as exhaust and oil stains (aircrafts) dust and mud (cars, tanks) sooth (steam locomotives), etc.
And if you don't wash it off, then it tends to accumulate...

Canvas tarps not being particularly a smooth media, such as aircraft aluminum, does show some blackened streaks after being left for some time outside due to rain and sun which is the reason for my wanting to use it on a 2 year old canvas and metal aircraft... :kilroy:

How long does it take for rain and sun to produce such stains would probably be the question to answer ! If it takes more than a year sitting outside to produce any kind of rainy streaks, then it wouldn't be accurate to use them on these textures.

But then, most hobbyist who add weathering to their plastic kits do seem to favour restraint and stop just before adding that little last bit to be on the safe side...:salute:

Anyone has any expertise on canvas rain and sun staining ?

Fleurdelys

[MDIvey]

The version 2 update just contains the updated files to be mergerd with your version 1 install. Its well worth the trouble of installing because the metalwork is much better (it was good any way but now is even better) and you have Johns superb blip gauge to add further imersion. You shouldnt need any tweaks to CFG files as Craig has done all that for you in the update.

Matt

[MDIvey]

..."seems a bit heavy on the weathering to me but I could be wrong. I would expect that if a machine got that bad it would be recovered".

I seem to recall a texture done lately where the picture used for reference showed paint peeling to the extent that it would have given points to a bad case of sunburn and skin peeling... :icon_lol:


Fleurdelys

Those plastic modellers eh!?:icon_lol: If my garden hammock is anything to go by then your right about the Canvas on that past its sell by date Camel:icon_lol:


Matt

[fleurdelys]

The 1st Slavic B.A.C. textures have just been uploaded and should be available soon.

Following your lead Matt and that of "plastic" modelers, I have refrained from "rain weathering effect" which might have been going a step too far... :icon_eek:

Cheers,

Fleurdelys