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RFields
January 3rd, 2009, 18:11
This was part of a private question and my response - since it touches on race policy rather than exclusively team information - my response is posted for everyone to see.
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I seem to recall last year around this time the RTW Executive Committee released some early information on the Special Rules for the 2008 Race. That information included the Maintenance Penalties and the Cabin Class rules.......

In my "Perfect World" I'd already have the perfect route planned out for us. But it's impossible to do when you don't know the required airports, the corridors, or even where the race is supposed to start and finish!

The unknown start point, unknown corridors, unknown bonuses, unknown requirements are a key element vital since the first race to make it interesting and a challenge. I think everyone agrees that running the same route year after year would be the death of the race.

Mike, Matt, Ian and I work very hard and very long hours - some of us about 150-200+ hours each - to ensure there is not ONE fastest route around the world. Last year we had four near identical routes.

And yet after running an average of 80-100 routing options each year, the three teams always surprise us with their picks. Sometimes they find a route which is slightly shorter/ faster than we have found, sometimes they ignore the shortest route combinations.

We realize the planning burden and try to have the final announcement at least 24 hours before the start.

The first race I followed had the start point - no corridors - released two hours before the start. I did not fly in 2004, but followed the race closely.

My first race in 2005, the introduction of corridors, bonus airports and jump jets, we had about 4 hours notice of the start and requirements.

There may or may not be an advance NOTAM this year. Those are usually reserved for when we add something unique and new to the race.

Variations in corridor, leg length, required airports, wild card leg distance, etc - are not new or unique in our opinion. Frankly having to deal with the planning issues is a big part of what makes the race fun. Teams which can deal with uncertainty well always do a good job on the race. We make variations in the standard elements just to keep people on their toes. But we are very aware of the physical limits of the world and how those dictate some routing choices.

We hear and try to adhere to the requests for simplicity - but we are also very aware of how much people enjoy most of the unique challenges.

Last year's rule related to crashes while carrying the baton is an example. We had heard for years from many people that there should be a penalty if a pilot with the baton crashes which keep him from flying the aircraft for the rest of the race. We tried the simpliest implementation we could come up with, but not making the rule an exclusion for the entire race. As you are well aware, that rule did not work. It will not be back, in any form.

As always, teams need to focus on flying fast and landing their primary race aircraft in any conditions. There will always be places where a piston 4 engine propliner is advantageous, or a long range 2 engine turboprop.

There may or may not be jets and 3-4 engine turboprops allowed.

Helicopters and classic aircraft are very popular with race participants - we've also heard nothing but good thinks about team flights.

Focus on the basics, focus on being fast, and focus on making those landings perfect.

Dangerousdave26
January 3rd, 2009, 18:35
Focus on the basics, focus on being fast, and focus on making those landings perfect.

Good Advice

While I would like to see the Routing Rules come out 48hrs ahead of the start I will take what the Committee gives.

Thanks for the update.

Dave

srgalahad
January 4th, 2009, 01:13
Amen Reggie!

I think we've had that part of the discussion before, but to look at it another way:
a leg which goes to 2:05 incurs a 15 minute penalty (triple time) for 2+20 total. The same leg jammed home in 1:59 with a crash ends up as 1+00 penalty plus the refly of lets be optimistic 2+00 for 3+00 ... (and the ensuing pressure to 'make it up') - can we have a rocket scientist crunch the numbers for us please? :help:

Rob

tornadowilkes
January 6th, 2009, 08:00
Reggie sums it up well, and just to add to that, the RTWR was always designed to add the kind of real world pressure that make the real thing enjoyable and is a feature often lacking from simulation flying. Having the final rules at the last minute is purposely designed to keep the pressure and anticipation running high until the last minute.... :applause:

RFields
February 10th, 2009, 05:41
Additional questions - Feb 10


1. Do the "have baton"/"baton free" posts to the forum have to follow exactly the template provided by the rules, or is a more liberal formulation acceptable?

The following things are critical in the post - (1) who has the baton and when, (2) who is the wingman and when. The "I have the baton" post must follow a "Baton is Free" post on the forum, they cannot be reversed. Both the Baton is Free post and the "I have the baton" post must include the same airport ICAO. In the case of airports which change designator between FS versions - please put in both ICAO codes/ FS identifier codes.

Though it is not required, the Baton pilot should start his Duenna - either manually or by achieving 45+ kts takeoff speed while on the ground - before the wingman starts his Duenna. If the Wingman starts Duenna first the automated tracking will be reversed and lead to confusion. (Note - for Helicopter flights, the Vickers Vimy and the Curtiss Jenny, and probably the Piper Cub and Aircreations Trike - start Duenna manually - you could be in the air when your ground speed reaches 45+ kts and Duenna will not start automatically)

The "I have the baton" post must include the destination airport (including any allowed wildcard flights) and the aircraft being used clearly identified. If the aircraft is not one commonly used in the race, some level of detail is necessary. Slang terms such as "in the Jug" are not acceptable. The Executive Committee must be able to identify the aircraft type, FS modeler, source of the model and verify the aircraft flight dynamics if there are questions - which happen every year.

The "Baton is free" post and the Wingman safely down post need to have the verification Duenna data attached, or clearly linked. Verify that both the JPG and the text file can be easily read. FS Pilots should NEVER erase/ remove Duenna files from their computer for flights with the baton or wingman position or for any group events during the race.

Now this may seem to be obtrusive. Well, gents, you are not flying for fun, you are flying for your team in a race where verification is essential for everyone to be assured of fairness.

It is also one tremendous pain in the rear for the Executive Committee - because we have to track and verifiy every single leg for four different teams. We need to do it every few hours.

But just as important - your teammates need to be able to read the forum and see clearly where the baton is located and what is happening before they join Teamspeak and interrupt a pilot on short final for a tough landing in the dark asking for an update. The forums are also how members of your FS community, friends and even family in some cases try to keep track of the race progress.


2. How exact do the system/FS clocks have to be set? And what time difference between "FS UTC" and real UTC (or local FS time and real local time) is acceptable?

There are two different issues here.

First, most of us will scout airports in daylight before attempting the flight. We need to make sure your FS UTC is correctly set to real UTC as closely as possible. For people not flying in FSX Multi-player, the Duenna sync time button does that very well. FSX Multi-player takes time only from the server. It is expected there will be some drift in time. That is simply how FS works.

Secondly, local time is a bigger issue. There is a set of updated time zone files by Dennis Thompson available for FS2004, and they work very well in FSX. I link both scenery.cfg files to the same scenery folder on my computers. However, you need to run the DSTorSTD.exe program right before the race. You should also resave your default flight right before the race. Because local offsets will change with timezones based on DST or Standard Time around the world. Also the date of your saved default flight can also create an incorrect offset, especially if your default flight was saved in DST and you are now in Standard Time or the reverse.

If you cannot find Dennis Thompson's files, download and install FSRealTime - it includes Dennis' files and sets up the FS2004 Scenery.cfg correctly.

However, DO NOT USE FSRealTime in the RTW. It is a great program but it resets the time frequently - which Duenna will correctly see as an error.

But it is also completely acceptable to only use the FS2002, FS2004 or FSX default time zones/ data. What will occur is that local time will be off an hour in many places, two hours in a few, a half-hour in Newfoundland and India and many other local variations around the world. Dawn and dusk may be off by those amounts. That is not a problem because we recognize the variations with FS.

We need you to fly in the correct UTC time and deal with the light/ dark issues as you see them.


3. Consider the following scenario: I have claimed the baton, posted the "have baton" post to the forum, started Duenna ect, but then crash on take off (why does this sound familiar to me ? ) I decide to make another attempt. Do I have to post to the forum that I have crashed and make a new attempt, wait until it is confirmed on the forum, and then only start Duenna anew? Or do I just start Duenna and take off after the crash without posting to the forum?

If you have a problem, always make a post about the problem and that you are restarting your flight. That is very explicit in the rules. Other teams may be watching your takeoff and subsequent crash as recorded by the flight tracking server, or by the FSHost status. Remember your two hour and three hour clocks start from the first "I have the baton" post, not any subsequent takeoff. The wingman does not have to restart his flight if the baton pilot crashes and restarts.


Say you are close to your destination having flown 690nm, and you have to find an alternate to land at for any reason. The closest alternate is 50nm away, but on a lateral or negative distance from your original destination. Flying to the alternate would put you over the 700nm limit but you would not have advanced the baton any farther, and possibly have flown backwards some distance. On the Duenna will it show total distance flown, including diversions? Or just distance from departure to landing. And is the rule only concerned with the Duenna number or actual distance flown?

Duenna records the distance from airport to airport. How far you fly with twists, turns and such is no concern to the race rules. The take-off and landing airports must be no more than 700 nm apart. If there are questions about the distance, the official method of measuring distance is from airport reference point to airport reference point in the version of FS used by the pilot.

This will be measured with the default FS flight planner and the two airports being measured will be mid-route airports so that only the airport reference point will be used. Flight plans which have the two airports as origin or landing are not used because the aircraft start location and the runway start point for the default landing runway are used in those cases.

The excuse that FSNav, GreatCircleMapper, Google Earth, FSCommander or SuperFlightPlanner shows the route as less than 700.1 nm will not be acceptable. FS easily and clearly shows the distance and that will be official. If FS says 700.1nm or more - the leg will not be allowed. If anyone has questions or wants a demonstration of how to measure distances - send me an e-mail and I'll be happy to meet you on Teamspeak.

fliger747
February 10th, 2009, 07:07
That would be a major change to have the duenna posted WITH the baton arrival post, indtead of posted within a specified time. Some poor (read dialup) internet connections can take some time to upload even a Duenna.

fliger747
February 10th, 2009, 07:27
Always remember that all executive decisions are made by racers from another team....

T.

RFields
February 10th, 2009, 09:57
No where did I say you had to delay posting the Baton is Free by waiting for the Duenna files.

I also expect most people this year to not actually post the files on their forum - but link to the RTW tracking site for verification like this one:

http://www.fsrtwrace.com/track/ShowFlight.php?detail=flight&value=lpOpKil9S4AGRjVI64oK8rRmkU

That link URL is located in the third paragraph from the bottom of the new Deunna text file.

However, if posting the .JPG and .TXT files on the team forum, it is preferrable that the Baton Free post be edited to attach those files, rather than a new post. All forums now appear to be correctly recording both the original post time, and the time of any edits to posts.

PRB
February 10th, 2009, 12:46
... In the case of airports which change designator between FS versions - please put in both ICAO codes/ FS identifier codes. ...

Not sure I understand this one. What if I only have FS9 installed and I pick an airport that has a different ICAO code in FSX? How would I know what the ICAO code is in FSX? Even if I do have both sims installed, now I have to fire up FSX and note the FSX ICAO code? And since we don’t know, whilst flying through darkest Africa, if the airport destination is one of the “duel ICAO” airports, we will have to check that for each leg.

Now since you rule makers and data trackers are stressed out enough in the course of the race, I can understand the intent here, and while people, like me, who have both sims installed will whine about the added burden, I don’t see how people with only one or the other sim installed can comply with this.

Might it be sufficient for pilots to include the sim when they post? E.G. “I have the baton, Lockheed (dcc) P-38L-5-LO, KSTL -> KFAT, FS9”

RFields
February 10th, 2009, 13:05
Outside Indonesia, there are relatively few airports with changed codes - but the FlightSim.com team found one in Mexico last weekend. We've posted a Notam each year on the main changes between FS9 and FSX.

What we are concerned about is if someone posts - "The baton is free at F39" (FS9) and the next pilot is using FSX and posts "I have the baton at KGYI"

That's when we get complaints that the pilot took off from an airport different than where the baton landed.

If both pilots are flying in the same version of FS, it is not a problem just to use the same ICAO. Usually it is very clear on Teamspeak that an airport has dual designators because pilots with one FS version will be questioning "Which airport? I don't see that ICAO as a valid default airport. Are you sure you have the ICAO right?"

Also a reminder to everyone, default airports only. You can certainly use addon scenery, publicly available AFCAD files for your version of FS, etc. But airports which are new (VOHS, VOBL, VTBS) cannot be used, nor can the excellent addon packages like those which add so many missing airports to China, Russia, Australia, etc...

But check the landing Duenna - make sure it agrees with the airport code you have posted, or explain which airport you landed at / took off from. The key is to be clear so there are no questions in the mind of someone reading the forum.

On several occasions over the past three years we have had to open FS and plot the lat/long where a flight started or ended to identify the airport and resolve a complaint.

FS9 only folks can expect to have challenges tracking the FS-MP team at times because they fly exclusively in FSX.

srgalahad
February 10th, 2009, 15:25
What we are concerned about is if someone posts - "The baton is free at F39" (FS9) and the next pilot is using FSX and posts "I have the baton at KGYI"

That's when we get complaints that the pilot took off from an airport different than where the baton landed.

If both pilots are flying in the same version of FS, it is not a problem just to use the same ICAO. "Which airport? I don't see that ICAO as a valid default airport. Are you sure you have the ICAO right?"

In most events where there is some form of 'protest' (sailing is perhaps the best example, but not the only one) it is incumbent on the person lodging the protest to justify/explain the grounds for such protest (Eg. "We have checked and can find no correlation"). This involves, usually, sufficient research to confirm the protest has merit and does not waste the committee's time.

Since the baton holder is often busy enough prior to launch (route planning, system prep, aircraft readiness, etc.) and may not have the alternate sim's list in his cockpit, it seems unreasonable to make the poster justify his location to simplify someone else's question.


But check the landing Duenna - make sure it agrees with the airport code you have posted, or explain which airport you landed at / took off from. The key is to be clear so there are no questions in the mind of someone reading the forum.

On several occasions over the past three years we have had to open FS and plot the lat/long where a flight started or ended to identify the airport and resolve a complaint.

Before lodging a protest, or even asking the committee it should be the protestors responsibility to do the research (using comparative lists and maps) to determine a complaint is justified. Duenna provides a Lat. & Long. which can be input into Google Earth (or read on any map) or tested in their Sim to see if it's near enough to explain the confusion prior to squawking. In fact, FS-MP will have the greater problem feeling sure the FS9'ers are keeping 'honest' at those dual locations with 3 teams to check).

I appreciate that it also can increase the RTWR Committee's workload when verifying the posts, but perhaps the Committee should enlarge it's membership to include (even just for Race Week) someone to solely do confirmations of posts.

I'm not trying to pass the buck back to the Committee, but to take the onus OFF a Baton Pilot who is already burdened enough.

I'll also add that if this is the level of nitpicking oversight we need for this event, it's gone far past sportsmanship, honesty, trust and fairplay and we should be competing for large cash prizes or medals of real gold.

Rob

MM
February 12th, 2009, 12:12
Useful post, Rob. (IMHO)

BTW...are you willing to put the large cash prizes? :icon_lol:

srgalahad
February 12th, 2009, 12:17
Useful post, Rob. (IMHO)

BTW...are you willing to put the large cash prizes? :icon_lol:

Sure Mike!
Right after I buy that Pacific Island, the new Cray, and pay off all the phony child-support claims that will come rolling in as soon as it's announced that I won the Mega-Billions Lottery...

oh, yeah.. I wonder where I can find the cash to buy a ticket....

Think anyone will race if the prize is .. ummm let's see.. $1.73 Cdn?

Rob

dcc
February 12th, 2009, 15:23
Useful post, Rob. (IMHO)

BTW...are you willing to put the large cash prizes? :icon_lol:

I think if we look close enough, we might find the RTW cash prize in the Stimulus Package that's going through congress :d

- dcc