milviz sabre sound let down

[snow_white]

Well growing up in an era whe sabres where still used in the south african airforce, I can honestly say looked forward to this. Absolute stunner but missing the "soul" and the soul being the real sabre sound.. In real live it had a much more of a "growl" then the "whine" of the milviz package. Also toooo sterile, the sabre had a lot of "rattles" "noises" going on inside the cockpit when taking off

Hopefully someone will put back the soul into this plane.

Still the rest is an absolute master piece and well worth the wait and the money..!

[krazycolin]

Thanks for your comments. Perhaps you should know that I actually saw and recorded a sabre (hawk one) and that is what we used as the basis for our sound set. Internally, to be honest, I wouldn't really know as I've never been in a sabre during take off. However, I will check this out with the Gatineau guys and see what, if anything, can or even should, be done...

Thanks

[stansdds]

If you are looking for rattles, brake noise, and such, then check out AccuFeel. It's not expensive and once installed, you can customize it for every aircraft, stock and add-on, in FSX.

http://www.a2asimulations.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=49

[stovall]

Just when I thought nothing could be improved about the Milviz F-86 Sabre, Colin says he want to check out the internal sounds to see if anything could be done to make them better. Surely it will not be easy to find someone who has been inside a Sabre during take off but you can rest assured, sound like he is going to do that. Very impressive.

[krazycolin]

If you are looking for rattles, brake noise, and such, then check out AccuFeel. It's not expensive and once installed, you can customize it for every aircraft, stock and add-on, in FSX.

http://www.a2asimulations.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=49


FYI, accufeel has caused issues with the Sabre in testing. We approached A2A about this both privately and publicly and were rebuffed. Be aware that we are not responsible nor will we support any issues you may have while running the two addons together.

[FSN]

I've got some great internal and external sabre sounds in my library...maybe one day I'll do a pack for it.

[n4gix]

Given that the F-86F 30 is a single pilot aircraft, unless one is a qualified pilot who's actually flown this aircraft, the internal sounds inevitably must be sheer conjecture and/or interpretation of first hand reports from real pilots... Just saying... :cool:

[FSN]

Yes indeed. The ones I have are from I library I purchased a while back...not sure what gear was used to record but it's easy enought to put a recorder and mics in it, hit record and let it roll while the pilot does his thing.

[krazycolin]

We will be adding some internal shakes and rattles during takeoff and landing..

[OleBoy]

I look forward to having the update. Adding more realism to an already awesome model (have yet to fly it, still downloading) will be excellent!
Your sound mixing skills are top notch, Vance.

[snow_white]

Given that the F-86F 30 is a single pilot aircraft, unless one is a qualified pilot who's actually flown this aircraft, the internal sounds inevitably must be sheer conjecture and/or interpretation of first hand reports from real pilots... Just saying... :cool:

yes my father was a sabre pilot stationed at AFB waterkloof and AFB Pietersburg. So yes it is firsthand knowledge from actual flying pilots as that was what discussed many a time in our house. Apart from that that my father spend countless hours telling me the details of the plane he flown. living next to the runways hearing them day in and day out, I can tell you the sabre just had that deeper engine sound.

[snow_white]

I've got some great internal and external sabre sounds in my library...maybe one day I'll do a pack for it.
would look forward to your work vance.

[krazycolin]

I live less than an hour away from one of the few flying Sabres. Believe me when I say it sounds just like it does in sim. If you choose not to do so, that is, of course, your prerogative. However, it will still be the real thing...

[RyanJames170]

i personally like the sound set

[FSN]

I'm just looking forward to flying it...looks fantastic.

[snow_white]

and this is what I grow up with.. a sound forever etched in my mind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjJb9lVDZ5A&feature=related

listen to that growl... combined with an ultra high pitch sound from 3:13 with a high between 3:20 to 3:30 where it is beautifully captured.

and here is the cockpit sounds again capturing the sounds beautifully.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pgBZLnfTro&feature=related


Sorry the sabre never at a one whine sound.
One thing that is real is the sounds in this video..!! no matter how close you live to a real sabre.. this is sabre sounds..!!

and I hope to one day experience these sounds with the milviz sabre. Now that will be an absolute winning combination.
and some more external sounds


and some more external sounds
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHlMxGmnUbk&feature=related

and here is your hawk one cockpit video. fwiw.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXULS9XjQxQ


(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXULS9XjQxQ)

[Naruto-kun]

Well you also have to remember that the Sabre has had a lot of engines....are the sounds you are referring to those of the J47-GE-27?

[FSN]

Now that's deep. Sitting here in my studio it sounds delish. I find alot of folx grab their sounds off you boob or something and turn em into sound sets but the problem there is that the audio is recorded with a camera...not a real audio recorder. I can't comment on this Sabre as I havent heard it yet but I'm sure it'll be fine. It's all a matter of opinion execpt when folx don't make sample accurate loops at zero crossings and you hear a little click or other obvious errors...then I just make myself a new one.

I don't pump out the packs very often and only do aircraft I like and fly. Haven't done one since the Huey a few months back but am working on two new ones right now so maybe this winter if I fancy I may do one for a Sabre.

Anyways congrats to the Milviz team on the release, she's a sweet looking plane!

[snow_white]

Well you also have to remember that the Sabre has had a lot of engines....are the sounds you are referring to those of the J47-GE-27?

you are absolutely correct that a lot of different engines were used and I believe the SA version had Orenda engines, and those I show are the ones I grew up with and know as "sabre" mkV1 sounds used many moons ago in SA..!

[PRB]

Airplane sound is an interesting subject, and a bit subjective as well. Love that cockpit video, by the way. That was fantastic. But, how much difference is there between the sound picked up by that microphone, and that heard by the pilot with his helmet on? I'd bet a lot of difference. From his helmet, with the radio on, there might even be some interference picked up caused by the engine itself, which would rise and fall in frequency with the engine RPMs. I've seen F-86s fly at air shows, and there isn't nearly as much base component as was apparently picked up by the microphone in the first U-Toob video, which might also have some “ambient wind” induced base, but I can't say for sure. When it comes to FS sounds, if I don't like one, I just go find one that sounds “pleasant” to me...

[snow_white]

Anyways congrats to the Milviz team on the release, she's a sweet looking plane!

+1 absolute brilliant rendition

[snow_white]

Airplane sound is an interesting subject, and a bit subjective as well. Love that cockpit video, by the way. That was fantastic. But, how much difference is there between the sound picked up by that microphone, and that heard by the pilot with his helmet on? I'd bet a lot of difference. From his helmet, with the radio on, there might even be some interference picked up caused by the engine itself, which would rise and fall in frequency with the engine RPMs. I've seen F-86s fly at air shows, and there isn't nearly as much base component as was apparently picked up by the microphone in the first U-Toob video, which might also have some “ambient wind” induced base, but I can't say for sure. When it comes to FS sounds, if I don't like one, I just go find one that sounds “pleasant” to me...

you are so right.. that is why I will try and found me one that is "pleasant" for me and that enhance the overall effect for me. Unfortuanately a thing like the sabre can be something very personal as this is one plane that is close to the heart so yeah... I just would like to hear a bit more "growl" then just a whine in external mode where a pilot headgear do not have an effect and sorry to say but that "growl" is just not there currently.

[FSN]

I've only recorded Sabre Flybys at air shows here in Nova Scotia and listening back now I don't hear that bottom end like that first vid. Checking out some other samples I have there's no where near that amount of bottom end either. It's all nice and smooth. I don't think the bass is from the wind so I suspect that while editing the first video there dude added a **** ton of bass with an EQ.

[FSN]

Talking about how different audio can be it's all about the mic and it's placement. All these vids are shot with cams that have varying degrees of quailty in the mics so each one will sound different. Ah....she's a tricky beast this sound stuff.

[snow_white]

I've only recorded Sabre Flybys at air shows here in Nova Scotia and listening back now I don't hear that bottom end like that first vid. Checking out some other samples I have there's no where near that amount of bottom end either. It's all nice and smooth. I don't think the bass is from the wind so I suspect that while editing the first video there dude added a **** ton of bass with an EQ.

Nah dont think so.. as the guy said different engines were used and that is what i can remember hearing.. Those youtube videos of sabres in canada all do not have that low pitched growl so you are correct but I suspect that is due to different engines.. that has been used. and nothing about "bass" being added... you will get that sound in all the videos of planes that still original engines.

Also take into account the hawk-one that has been used for sound recording is actually a brand new plane fitted even with glass panels etc, so yes the engines might also have been upgraded a LOT and even though the sounds might reflect the hawk one of today it do NOT reflect the engine sounds of the 1960..!!

So another kudu for milviz for getting the hawk one sound correct, but I look for sounds of yesteryear that go with the age old cockpit rendition of the milviz sabre. Currently you have the hawk one sounds (modern) with cockpit (OLD).

[Naki]

RAAF Sabres have Avon engines (as per some of the Youtube links above) so they no doubt sound different than the Milviz modelled Sabre.

[hairyspin]

... take into account the hawk-one that has been used for sound recording is actually ... ... so yes the engines might also have been upgraded a LOT...

Are you serious? Try getting such a modification past the FAA or whatever the Canadian national authority is!

For the record, Hawk One "is a Canadair Sabre 5 that originally bore the RCAF serial number 23314. Manufactured in 1954, it was the 1,104th Sabre to come off the Canadair assembly line. It has been retrofitted with wings equipped with leading edge slats and an Orenda 14 engine, thus bearing all the resemblance of a Sabre 6. (quote from hawkone.ca)"


:isadizzy:

[n4gix]

you are so right.. that is why I will try and found me one that is "pleasant" for me and that enhance the overall effect for me. Unfortuanately a thing like the sabre can be something very personal as this is one plane that is close to the heart so yeah... I just would like to hear a bit more "growl" then just a whine in external mode where a pilot headgear do not have an effect and sorry to say but that "growl" is just not there currently.
Well this one sounds pretty darn "whiney" to my ears!
Too much so for my comfort, truth be told!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFk9JAvVxcA&feature=related

It's interesting to observe how some folks get fixated on one hors d'<wbr>oeuvres and totally ignore the rest of the banquet's fabulous feast... :mixedsmi:

[snow_white]

Are you serious? Try getting such a modification past the FAA or whatever the Canadian national authority is!

For the record, Hawk One "is a Canadair Sabre 5 that originally bore the RCAF serial number 23314. Manufactured in 1954, it was the 1,104th Sabre to come off the Canadair assembly line. It has been retrofitted with wings equipped with leading edge slats and an Orenda 14 engine, thus bearing all the resemblance of a Sabre 6. (quote from hawkone.ca)"


:isadizzy:

but the hawk one do not have that black smoke of yester year sabres so obviously the engine must have been modifiedm because you can look at any video on the hawk one and you will not see that thick black smoke that sabres are reknowned for.

[Ian Warren]

RAAF Sabres have Avon engines (as per some of the Youtube links above) so they no doubt sound different than the Milviz modelled Sabre.

:icon_lol: Paul Paul Paul .. they are the 'Avon' River sounds ;) so smooth as you fly past as for the rattling in cockpit .. just our regular earthquakes :wiggle: <input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><input jscode="leoInternalChangeDone()" onclick="if(typeof(jsCall)=='function'){jsCall();}else{setT imeout('jsCall()',500);}" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">

[StormILM]

I've spent a good bit of time around Dale Snodgrass's F-86E both close to it running on the ground and overhead. The Milviz rendition is pretty close IMO. The J47 Sabre's are simply not overly loud jets nor are the Mig-15's which I've also spent a lot of time up close to during engine runs and flight demos. As far as the internal sounds, during the development, the team(Beta members and Dev members) were asked opinions about this and I posted as many recently made videos of Sabre cockpits as I could find. The sound in those videos were clean and clear and generally, I feel the cockpit sounds are very good within the sound capabilities of FSX. I normally use headphones and my set makes the sounds of most louder FSX models sound wimpy/without a lot of bottom and mid range but on better sound systems, I am sure the sounds of the Sabre will sound much louder/more powerful.

[Roadburner440]

All of the early jet engines that left beautiful smoke trails have eventually been modified to be low soot if you will. They did the same thing to the F-4's toward the end of their useful lives, and I am sure the F-86 fell in to a similar program. I personally have never seen a functional F-86. However the closest thing I have seen is the Mig-17 and that sure was a screamer.

[MudMarine]

Airplane sound is an interesting subject, and a bit subjective as well. Love that cockpit video, by the way. That was fantastic. But, how much difference is there between the sound picked up by that microphone, and that heard by the pilot with his helmet on? I'd bet a lot of difference. From his helmet, with the radio on, there might even be some interference picked up caused by the engine itself, which would rise and fall in frequency with the engine RPMs. I've seen F-86s fly at air shows, and there isn't nearly as much base component as was apparently picked up by the microphone in the first U-Toob video, which might also have some “ambient wind” induced base, but I can't say for sure. When it comes to FS sounds, if I don't like one, I just go find one that sounds “pleasant” to me...

I enjoy the cockpit video also! It's cool to see how busy the pilot is on approach; the way it really is, a constant scanning of the instruments and the pilots head on a swivel! Way cool!

[krazycolin]

Actually, I saw Hawk one not once, twice but three times. And there is a large amount of smoke following that plane...

[alehead]

I may not have the Milviz F86 yet, but that video posted depicts a CAC Sabre, with a Rolls Royce Avon... a totally different and more powerful engine than the J47-GE-27 (33.4kN compared to 26.3kN, at least according to wikipedia...)

A totally different sound... best to compare apples with apples maybe?

This is definitely on my list...

A

[JAllen]

The sound is just fine on my surround 5.1 system. It even sounds like a jet! :icon30::salute:

[DennyA]

I don't know, I hear a lot of Sabre engine sound whine right here in the topic, without even firing up FSX. :)

[krazycolin]

LOL!!!!! BEST LINE TODAY!!!

[VCN-1]

This thread reminds me of the days of the Alphasim releases.

VCN-1

[JIMJAM]

I have saved the sound files of just about every aircraft since fs2004. Its now at least 10 gigs and growing. Sounds to me are a personal pref especially the ambient sounds,gear,flaps, ground roll ect. Ive been in aviation for 30 yrs and through a Dave Clark or helmet most of the noisy ones are just that. The few developers that dared to really be realistic and present them for what they are, alot of noise received horrible reviews from simmers.
Anyways, editing the sound.cfg of most all aircraft,helis is about as simple as it gets.
I run through a surround sound system and like to "feel" it. Noisy ground roll, gear up and down make a satisfying THUMP. I have robbed so many sounds from other models that few of my planes have stock soundsets. That said, the Milviz sabre I hear nothing that needs changing which for a picky audio guy like me is saying something.
I must admit I do not go to the external views and carefully listen to the engines for authenticity as I spend 99.0% of my time in the pit.
Now some like the Vulcan,F-104 ect have such a distinct sound that its probably as important to me as the external model. So I can understand someone who is really into a particular aircraft wanting the upmost in sound realism.
For them I suggest learning to do it yourself. Its not all that difficult and I find it enjoyable.