What does control idle rpm in an airfile?

[kelticheart]

A good day to everybody! :wavey:

Is there anybody out there who could kindly give me a suggestion about what controls idle rpms in an airfile, please?

I have a pair of aircrafts converted from FS2000/02/04 which are probably using a civilian sim native airfile, because their idle is so high the only way to stop their post-landing run consists in turning the engine/s off, otherwise they always go into a ground roll and overturn when I desperately hit the brakes to avoid overrunning the runway.

Most notably, it's the Dutch twin-engined Fokker G.1 Wasp built by Alexander Schreijnders a while ago, not counting one engine starts only manually. Also a couple of Ito's models I converted myself behave similarly, what's strange here is that I always use CFS2 airfiles for my conversions.

The problem is not in engine record #505, because I already tried every trick in my bag but it's not working. My joystick works perfectly with all the other aircrafts in my hangar, and I even recalibrated it within CFS2 several times, just in case.

The most bizarre thing is that, when I switch to CFS2 HUD, it displays 0% throttle, my engine gauges tell me the engines are idling, but the sound they produce is actually howling as if I had throttled up to 50% power and above!

Thank you!

One last thing:
I announced before summer I was dressing up Gary Burn's BoB British RAF airfileds and that I was trying to make them look as close as possible to the real thing, taking advantage of the available ETO object libraries from Pen32Win, Canion, Wolfi and more.
After the summer pause, I picked the project up again and decided to include all of Achims' UK airfields also and, with the help of Kdriver I am getting somewhere, although the search for WWII pictures eats up huge amounts of time. At any rate, I learned a lot about the general looks of a WWII RAF airfield and now all of my British airports feature an entrance with the RAF flag flying, administrative buildings, operation centres, officers and enlisted personnel living quarters. All I need now is a pub....... :icon29:Kdriver sent me a list of still exhisting "C" and "T2" type hangars in England and duly used them where required.
I hope to be able to start releasing something in a month or two.

Cheers!
KH :ernae:

[Discus]

KH
I don´t have an answer to your air file question. But I´m glad you have added a flag to UK airfields. It´s something I hadn´t thought about but it´s obvious it was missing and it will add some nice detail.
You´ll need a barrier and some guards. Unfortunately there aren´t british or american troops that I know. There are some german and japanese, and, maybe, some russians. I used the germans in an honor guard in front of a FW200 in Bordeaux-Merignac for a mission I did a while ago. I also added some refueling trucks and cargo trucks on the next planes parked in front of the hangar. Nothing to do with the mission but a nice thing to look at while you taxi to the hangar after the mission is completed.

Next thing you´ll add some maintenance crew working on and over airplanes?

Cheers, Discus

[Milton Shupe]

Send the air and cfg file to me or post it and I will try to correct that for you sir.

[kelticheart]

Send the air and cfg file to me or post it and I will try to correct that for you sir.

Thank you so much, Milton! :salute:

Please, find the aircraft flight model attached. When you are done, please tell me why I couldn't get it to work.

Thank you! :ernae:



For Discus:



...But I´m glad you have added a flag to UK airfields. It´s something I hadn´t thought about but it´s obvious it was missing and it will add some nice detail.
You´ll need a barrier and some guards. Unfortunately there aren´t british or american troops that I know....

Hi there!

I got the flag thanks to Kdriver who was able to extract the *.bgl from a Ian Elliot's scenery. When I'll be done all the RAF sceneries will also include Ian's Hawkinge pre-war 1930's small (and lovely) control tower, or "Watch Office", plus Cees Donker's underground fuel storage and RAF library objects, again courtesy of Kdriver who knows the magic of extracting scenery objects from non-GSL sceneries and sent me Cees Donker's lib. I wonder if Cees Donker's RAF building complete library is available here at SOH.

I am sorry but no workcrews, which can be added to a given mission anyway, as I am getting perilously close to the CFS2 object limit for a cumulative cfs2.gsl file by adding trees, fences and other necessary details.

Simonu and Silvia did US troop figures, I am not aware if anyone ever covered British troops. Then there are German troops by again Simonu and an older set from Ground Crew's.

Cheers!
KH :ernae:

[Milton Shupe]

KH,

Here is the revised flight model.

The main issue was table 509, but I messed with other prop and engines tables as well.

Flight characteristics are mighty stiff in FS9, a little clunky, not smooth.

Table 404 AoA is off; very hard to get her to rotate on takeoff even with flaps and full up trim.
CoG was way off at about the leading edge of the wing; I corrected that.

Also eased some changes in regarding pitch and lift vs elevator and trim and de-stiffened it a bit on the pitch axis.

But the FM really needs to be re-done IMO at least according to how it flies in FS9. It maybe fine in CFS2.

If one had all the specs re: performance and dimensions, I might have a go at it.
I could build it for CFS2 and test in FS2002.

Try this set ... see how it does in CFS2 and let me know.

[Discus]

Thank you so much, Milton! :salute:

For Discus:



Hi there!

I got the flag thanks to Kdriver who was able to extract the *.bgl from a Ian Elliot's scenery. When I'll be done all the RAF sceneries will also include Ian's Hawkinge pre-war 1930's small (and lovely) control tower, or "Watch Office", plus Cees Donker's underground fuel storage and RAF library objects, again courtesy of Kdriver who knows the magic of extracting scenery objects from non-GSL sceneries and sent me Cees Donker's lib. I wonder if Cees Donker's RAF building complete library is available here at SOH.

I am sorry but no workcrews, which can be added to a given mission anyway, as I am getting perilously close to the CFS2 object limit for a cumulative cfs2.gsl file by adding trees, fences and other necessary details.

Simonu and Silvia did US troop figures, I am not aware if anyone ever covered British troops. Then there are German troops by again Simonu and an older set from Ground Crew's.

Cheers!
KH :ernae:

Thanks for your kind answer.
Simonu WWI British troops can replace fairly well WWII British troops.
There´s a Russian guard that can act like a sentry if you don´t look too close to it. But in CFS2 you don´t quite drive through the gate too often, so that won´t be too much of a compromise!
There´s an excelent German sentry made by Simonu.
As for mechanics and pilots on foot Ti Luop made some figures that are very interesting.
I couldn´t find any GroundCrew troops. Looked into RedHanger´s and here at SOH.

Cheers, Discus

[kelticheart]

KH,

Here is the revised flight model.

The main issue was table 509, but I messed with other prop and engines tables as well.

Flight characteristics are mighty stiff in FS9, a little clunky, not smooth.

Table 404 AoA is off; very hard to get her to rotate on takeoff even with flaps and full up trim.
CoG was way off at about the leading edge of the wing; I corrected that.

Also eased some changes in regarding pitch and lift vs elevator and trim and de-stiffened it a bit on the pitch axis.

But the FM really needs to be re-done IMO at least according to how it flies in FS9. It maybe fine in CFS2.

If one had all the specs re: performance and dimensions, I might have a go at it.
I could build it for CFS2 and test in FS2002.

Try this set ... see how it does in CFS2 and let me know.

Thank you very much Milton! :jump:

I guess that all of the above problems come from the habit of using or adapting airfiles written for other models. I noticed there are a lot of addon flight models that were taken straight from stock aircrafts.
On the other hand, I understand that building an aircraft with the highly spoilt taste given to us by the incredible quality reached in the last few years, like your creations, is such an effort that, when it comes the time to release, one is so tired that all other details like flight models and dp files become of secondary importance.

That's why I believe that a tutorial/guideline describing all entries of an airfile and how it interacts with the aircraft.cfg file should be made available, so that each one of us could help designers by working on the flight models on our own when they happen to be quite far from the real life aircraft. I downloaded a while ago brief tutorials about how to modify an airfile but they do not cover all details and, mostly, they do not explain what needs to be done to the aircraft.cfg also, since both files work together.

I have another question, if I may, by the way: what's the meaning of the numbers associated to the propeller type= record? Does this number mean fixed pitch, variable pitch and/or constant speed prop, or does it refer to the number of blades, or else?
I'd like to know the exact meaning because I am sure there are a bunch of errors to correct in my hangar! Like, for example, the presence of this record in a jet engined aircraft airfile.....:icon_eek:

Thank you again!
KH :ernae:

[Milton Shupe]

KH,

Thank you.

Good luck in finding a tutorial that spells it all out.

The .air file represents all the data required for the sim to fly the aircraft.
The cfg file is simply an external way to easily input data to those data cells for the sim engine.
As sims evolved, they gave us more things to easily modify through the cfg.
That does not mean the .air file is no longer required (or that those data points no longer exist in it); it's just easier to modify them through the cfg.

The MS SDK defines all the aircraft.cfg file parameters, plus other cfg parameters generally like the sound and panel cfgs.

You can get it here by copying the link and pasting in your browser:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/555857/en-us

Look for this entry. There are other SDK's there as well if you are interested.

Aircraft Container:
http://download.microsoft.com/download/9/f/5/9f57691b-7c5f-4031-aa29-2ab00f676ba6/aircraft_container_setup.exe

Regarding the .air files, there are hunderds of tables there and if you understand aerodynamic terms, you can sort it out.
If you have AirEd or other tools, you can make changes.

AirEd requires an .ini file that describes each table. If using AirEd, you can right click a table name and get the brief description.

You can get these things here: http://www.aero.sors.fr/index.html

Another much easier way is to get AirWrench from www.mudpond.org (http://www.mudpond.org) that will redo flight models for you. This is payware but inexpensive relatively speaking.

I use the Jerry "Sparks" Beckwith's older FDWB to create new flight models. It requires MS Excel Spreadsheet, is very intricate, but gives you a lot of control over the build, and allows you to learn the intricacies of the tables and data. It is no longer supported, can be "cranky" at times (if you put in bad data), was replaced by the simple, easy-to-use AirWrench, but I still prefer it. It allows you to build specifically for CFS2, FS2002, FS2004. If I have all the data I need, I can put together a flight model and have it reasonable in about 7 hours.

Here is an example of what either tool does for you, and a representation of the complexity and the few tutorials available, from Jerry's website:
http://www.mudpond.org/fs_props.pdf

The key part of these tools is that they deliver accurate flight performance regarding speeds and very close handling performance (all dependant on correct data input). I cannot do that by hand using just teh .air file as the interacting tables are too complicated, the computations are over my head. These tools do the hard work. For us, it's tough enough to gather the correct data, get it entered correctly, and tweak the handling to suit our tastes.

EDIT: Added a screenshot of the Data Sheet, first tab in the FDWB workbook.

[Allen]

With AirEd Prop Type= is as follows. 0 Constant speed. 1 Fixed pitch.

There is also Aircraft Airfile Manager V2.2. It is a littile more user friendly than AirEd as its description of what each table is/dose can be better. You can get Aircraft Airfile Manager and AirEd in the link below.

http://simviation.com/1/browse-Utilities-65-6