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Roger
September 7th, 2012, 12:21
I've set up a couple of .bat files to easily switch between a Dx9 and a Dx10 Fsx.cfg (I don't want to leave my port-overs for ever) but it's looking like I'll have to change some Nvidia Inspector settings (which can't differentiate between FsX Dx9 and Dx10).
When I first used the Dx10 version of the FsX.cfg (my Dx9 cfg with the Dx10 preview changed from 0 to 1) the screen resolution had changed to a lower setting and AA was unchecked and Anisotropic had changed to bi-linear. I changed these settings back to my usual screen res, AA on and Anisotropic replaced Bi-linear. The results were greatly improved and AA was working as long as it was checked in FsX. I then added the Dx10 Shader mod by Steve Parsons as described elesewhere which does remove the flashing runways. Now to tune Nvidia Inspector and here's the problem, I still can't get the AA to look as good as I had it under Dx9.
Any thoughts from our Dx10ers?

Roger
September 7th, 2012, 13:22
Ok, with a little help from a thread on Avsim here are several screenshots of aircraft that need good AA to help with jaggies. Frames seem a little faster but the view when panning is much more fluid. I like it so far:engel016:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/rogera/dx10-2012-1.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/rogera/dx10-2012-2.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/rogera/dx10-2012-3.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/rogera/dx10-2012-4.jpg

Roger
September 7th, 2012, 14:03
Some more randomly selected

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/rogera/dx10-2012-5.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/rogera/dx10-2012-6.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/rogera/dx10-2012-7.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/rogera/dx10-2012-8.jpg

Roger
September 7th, 2012, 14:25
Here's some more from various developers

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/rogera/dx10-2012-9.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/rogera/dx10-2012-10.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/rogera/dx10-2012-11.jpg

Roger
September 7th, 2012, 14:29
Here's the thread at Avsim where I got the Nvidia Inspector profile. There is a screenshot of the NI profile part way down the thread.

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/379908-dx10-antialiasing/

It's the fluidity that impresses me, even at low frame rates on my 5 year old rig.

Scratch
September 7th, 2012, 14:35
After years of trying to use the DX10 mode I have finally done it today. Before, after checking the DX10 mode I would get a black screen, but could hear the sim running. Unchecking it would not restore it back and I always had to end up deleting my FSX cfg file. It occurred to me that maybe the resolution changed and I made the corrections you mentioned above and now everything works well. In the very short time I had to try it out I do notice the more fluid panning you mentioned. I can't wait to see what other benefits there are to DX10. What should I be looking for?

Naismith
September 7th, 2012, 14:40
Some fabulous screen grabs there, almost tempting me to try DX10 too.

Roger
September 7th, 2012, 14:40
After years of trying to use the DX10 mode I have finally done it today. Before, after checking the DX10 mode I would get a black screen, but could hear the sim running. Unchecking it would not restore it back and I always had to end up deleting my FSX cfg file. It occurred to me that maybe the resolution changed and I made the corrections you mentioned above and now everything works well. In the very short time I had to try it out I do notice the more fluid panning you mentioned. I can't wait to see what other benefits there are to DX10. What should I be looking for?

If you use Nvidia Inspector check the Avsim thread above. The settings there (the screenshot of the NI settings) made all the difference to curing the jaggies, but for me the main thing is the fluidity of the sim - no little jumps and hiccups.

Roger
September 7th, 2012, 14:44
The only downside for me is the changes I had to make in Invidia Inspector. I'm not sure how Dx9 will look with these new settings. If anyone knows a way to have two NI settings for FsX please let me know.

pilottj
September 7th, 2012, 14:53
Hey Roger, I tired out the DX10 tweaks too. Before I had the usual suspects of DX10 preview issues. After trying Steve's DX10 fixes, most things have been fixed. I only seem to have AA issues on the startup selection screen. Once flying everything is fine. Night time rain still looks like flying through hyperspace, and airport beacons are a little on the over bright side, but otherwise, all the other issues seemed resolved. It is nice having graphics improved in general and better frame rates.

Cheers
TJ

Scratch
September 7th, 2012, 15:19
I knew it was too good to be true. I just installed the external FPS limiter and now FSX minimizes on startup and won't come back up with any keyboard input. I feel like I got the rug pulled out from under me. My vid card is an ATI 5870 so I don't think NVIDIA stuff will work for me. Any ideas on how to get rid of this external FPS limiter crap so I can enjoy FSX again?

Roger
September 7th, 2012, 15:24
Scratch, I find that internally limiting frame rates works best. I stopped using external limiters a while back when it was confirmed that they tend to increase the blurries and that's high on my list of wants.
If you want to go back to Dx9 just change the FsX.cfg under [Graphics] to D3D10=0

Roger
September 7th, 2012, 16:04
Regarding exterior lighting, nav, taxi and landing the results are variable. The default aircraft seem best with A2A Shockwave lights: various other light fx giving variable results, with lights disappearing at different viewing angles. The default C172 with A2A lights, seems to give reliable results over a wide area of viewing.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/rogera/dx10-2012-12.jpg

hey_moe
September 7th, 2012, 16:26
Great shots Roger :jump:

Scratch
September 7th, 2012, 16:30
Scratch, I find that internally limiting frame rates works best. I stopped using external limiters a while back when it was confirmed that they tend to increase the blurries and that's high on my list of wants.
If you want to go back to Dx9 just change the FsX.cfg under [Graphics] to D3D10=0

Thanks Roger, I exterminated that program with extreme prejudice and found out that it had sent FSX to a monitor that I didn't have. I reset my primary monitor in CCC and got everything back front and center. I also moved the in game fps slider to unlimited and the smoothness is the best I have ever seen. I'm really liking DX10 so far.

Roger
September 7th, 2012, 16:47
Thanks Moe, and I'm glad to hear you're sorted Scratch!

Here's a surprise...Manuele's Ansaldo is an Fs9 port-over....I've no idea why the textures show (99% of Fs9 model textures show as white) but they do...

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/rogera/dx10-2012-13.jpg

Javis
September 7th, 2012, 17:33
.... Now to tune Nvidia Inspector and here's the problem, I still can't get the AA to look as good as I had it under Dx9.
Any thoughts from our Dx10ers?

Roger, what exactly does nVidia Inspector do for your FSX ?.... I tried it once and got into a heap of trouble, so much that i did system restore and was happy to see everything back to normal again. (have to say that i don't understand half of all these settings in nvidia inspector... ) I only use Bojote's cfg tweaks, external fps limiter and DX10 shaders patch and it's the best and most enjoyable FSX i have ever had. ( i figure when using DX10 the external fps limiter doesn't work anymore. I do start-up FSX thru it but fps goes way passed the 30 fps that the external limiter is setup for and stays there when i use DX9 ) With DX10 plus shaders patch AA and AF work just as good as they do with DX9. ( i use W7/64 with i7 x980 3.33GHZ, GF GTX480, 12GB 1600MHz Tri Channel memory)

Using DX10 now, apart from a much better looking and performing FSX i also got rid of another annoying problem: mostly FSX would crash when switching from window mode to full screen. No more !

Btw, i wonder, what exactly is wrong with the screenies you posted regarding AA ?.... That IS with DX10, right ?... :cool:

Btw(2), i also still use that great yellow Hawker Fury as a scenery viewer. Did you notice ( in DX10 ) that the 'old' Fury does feature VC shadowing ( which looks great now with the shaders patch ! ) and the brandnew Waco does not ?.... I shall have to speak to the Alabeo boys again.... Very grateful for the first patch though, lighted radios look fine now !

Btw(3), nice screenies ! :cool: That Orbx New Zealand you're flying over ?....

cheers,
jan

Javis
September 7th, 2012, 17:49
Here's a surprise...Manuele's Ansaldo is an Fs9 port-over....I've no idea why the textures show (99% of Fs9 model textures show as white) but they do...

Roger, check the Ansaldo textures against those of FS9 models that turn up white. Could be that the latter are BMP 32bit and the Ansaldo's are DDS ?.... If that's true most FS9 port-over textures could be made to work in DX10 by converting to DDS. Maybe....

Roger
September 7th, 2012, 17:59
Ah lots of questions Jan:jump:

After your post in the Waco thread I decided to give Dx10 another chance. Nvidia Inspector gave me the opportunity to fine tune the graphics card and the Avsim thread made it even better. It tells us that the old adage that "Dx10 is broken and jaggies persist as AA cannot be applied in Dx10 mode" etc. is rubbish and Dx10 with Steve Parson's shaders is a very viable alternative to Dx9.
All the screenies I took were after adding Steve Parsons shaders and adjusting Nvidia Inspector as per the Avsim thread mentioned above. So I am convinced that Dx10 in FsX can work, giving fluid panning and a few extra frames.
The downsides are no tool tips in vc, variable visibility of external lights and the fact that Nvidia Inspector doesn't seem able to have separate profiles for Dx9 and Dx10.
Oh and the scenery is ORBX PNW.

Roger
September 7th, 2012, 18:05
Roger, check the Ansaldo textures against those of FS9 models that turn up white. Could be that the latter are BMP 32bit and the Ansaldo's are DDS ?.... If that's true most FS9 port-over textures could be made to work in DX10 by converting to DDS. Maybe....

Ah if only...I did a lot of experimenting back in 2008 and the vast majority of Fs9 aircraft textures were white. None of the Fs9 aircraft used .dds textures (although I did convert some to no effect). There is a payware FsX converter program available but converted .mdl/textures lost all alpha channel enhancements so they were all matt. Whatever Manuele did by accident is a mystery.

Roger
September 7th, 2012, 18:25
Hey Roger, I tired out the DX10 tweaks too. Before I had the usual suspects of DX10 preview issues. After trying Steve's DX10 fixes, most things have been fixed. I only seem to have AA issues on the startup selection screen. Once flying everything is fine. Night time rain still looks like flying through hyperspace, and airport beacons are a little on the over bright side, but otherwise, all the other issues seemed resolved. It is nice having graphics improved in general and better frame rates.

Cheers
TJ
Exactly the same here. The preview window looks like there's no AA but in sim it looks fine.

Roger
September 7th, 2012, 18:48
Just noticed that Avsim has a new Dx10 forum. Will be worth a look and maybe we can add to this thread from some of their experiments.

falcon409
September 8th, 2012, 06:56
The only downside for me is the changes I had to make in Invidia Inspector. I'm not sure how Dx9 will look with these new settings. If anyone knows a way to have two NI settings for FsX please let me know.
Yea, that is the downside for me Roger. I've never been much impressed with DX10, always seemed like much ado about nothing and since I use Nick's settings for NI exclusively I don't really care to mess with them, but if there was a way to have two settings, that would be a reason at least to give DX10 and the tweaks discussed here a shot.:salute:

Roger
September 8th, 2012, 07:27
Yea, that is the downside for me Roger. I've never been much impressed with DX10, always seemed like much ado about nothing and since I use Nick's settings for NI exclusively I don't really care to mess with them, but if there was a way to have two settings, that would be a reason at least to give DX10 and the tweaks discussed here a shot.:salute:

I hadn't tried Dx10 for 2 or 3 years but with more complex aircraft models I was getting artifacts and jerky movements in Dx10 with no hope of a new pc for a year or two I decided to give it a try and was blown away by the smoothness and fluidity I got. I'm sticking with it for my FsX native aircraft and will use Dx9 when I want to fly port-overs.

Javis
September 8th, 2012, 07:34
Ah if only...I did a lot of experimenting back in 2008 and the vast majority of Fs9 aircraft textures were white. None of the Fs9 aircraft used .dds textures (although I did convert some to no effect). There is a payware FsX converter program available but converted .mdl/textures lost all alpha channel enhancements so they were all matt. Whatever Manuele did by accident is a mystery.

Ahh...Ok, bummer....

I did some experimenting with our ol' FS9 Sabre. Turns up white too. However the textures for the wheels and complete VC do show up....


72282

I think i have to come to the conclusion that FSX DX10 doesn't like tea... :)

Can you check if the Ansaldo's external textures have the famous ' _t ' extension behind their names ?..... If not than ' _t ' must be the culprit.

I believe it's possible thru a hex editor to remove '_t ' from any texture names in a givin mdl file. If then removed from the actual texture names as well they will probabely show up in FSX DX10 again. ' _t ' extension is still used by some native FSX models but causes no problem with FSX DX10 because the model is exported via the FSX exporter where the FS9 port-overs have been exported thru the old FS9 exporter.

If my theory works than atleast all port-over textures can be made to show up again in DX10.

Btw, in my DX10 VC's tooltips do still show up fine:

72283

Sometimes, for some mysterious reason, FSX turns 'show tooltips' off. Always make sure it's turned on... :)

And thanks for the Nvidia Inspector tips and Avsim thread. I might try and give it another go although i'm very happy with my FSX performance as it is now.

Roger on Orbx PNW :)

cheers,
jan

CG_1976
September 8th, 2012, 07:37
This gives me a idea to try Milton's DHC7. Roger thanks for the link to the DX10 article. Loads of info and very useful. I have this backup FSX computer purring now.

kilo delta
September 8th, 2012, 07:38
Why not create two .nip profiles, one for DX9 and one for DX10? eg... here's the DX10 one..
You can then import and apply the required file into NI before starting up FSX

heywooood
September 8th, 2012, 09:18
Why not create two .nip profiles, one for DX9 and one for DX10? eg... here's the DX10 one..
You can then import and apply the required file into NI before starting up FSX

I for one just do not have the fortitude to mess around with my FSX / Nvidia 'relationship' this way - the ensuing oscillations of me trying to figure out what went wrong when "why the hell is it doing THAT!"
and the F-WORD are being shouted by me...at my rig...when I upset the delicate, fragile balance of power in the ecosystem that is FSX and its .cfg and my Nvidia Inspector profile...

I just don't have that kind of brass anymore...

Naismith
September 8th, 2012, 11:38
I don't understand at all what happened here, I decided to try out the Shader 3 file. I altered the FSX.cfg to allow the DX10 preview. Ran the setup for the shader 3. Ran FSX, few tweaks were needed once in the sim as the screen resolution had dropped down and one or two other things (AA & clouds). Set a flight in my local area where with all the addons I ususally get about 10-12 fps. I was stunned, I was getting 60-65 fps with various a/c. It seems to have ignored the Limiter. But uh-oh the old favs like the BAC 1-11 were now white as was a known issue. I could not tolerate that so I came out the sim altered the fsx.cfg back the way it was. I did not uninstall the settings of the shader3 file. I reloaded the sim, the white a/c were now normal again and wow the fps while not stellar were now in the 20's. And the smoothness was great.

edit - I use an ATi 6870 by Sapphire btw.

Roger
September 8th, 2012, 16:25
Jan, Manuele's Ansaldo has quite a few _t textures. I was given to understand that mdl material has a lot to do with the Dx10 textures showing.

Roger
September 9th, 2012, 12:53
More subtle modding in NI. 4x Sparse Grid Supersampling upped to 8x Sparse Grid Supersampling.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/rogera/dx10-2012-15.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/rogera/dx10-2012-16.jpg

Roger
September 9th, 2012, 13:46
To those with hi-end rigs these shots with Fps shown, will mean little or nothing but to me Dx10 with Steve Parsons Dx10 shader modifications makes for a most pleasurable alternative. Most if not all of the Dx10 issues left uncorrected as the Aces were given their cards, have been addressed by Steve's Dx10 shader fixes making Dx10 a very viable alternative to my stuttery, jumpy FsX Dx9 with flashing ground textures.

heywooood
September 16th, 2012, 11:16
thanks for posting about all the fixes to DX10, Roger - with this info I was able to make it work and now have locked frames @ 30 with zero stutter - rock solid smooth constant 30FPS

..coolest thing since Flight

Roger
September 16th, 2012, 11:41
thanks for posting about all the fixes to DX10, Roger - with this info I was able to make it work and now have locked frames @ 30 with zero stutter - rock solid smooth constant 30FPS

..coolest thing since Flight

Glad you took the plunge!:engel016:
I'm pretty well committed to Dx10 preview now with the new shaders. There are still a few anomalies and some payware companies still offer "uncheck Dx10 preview" as a solution to Fs9 objects not working in Dx10. As more and more people see that their pc can perform so much better with Dx10 preview then those payware companies will have to take note.
I keep popping back to the Avsim Dx10 forum and seeing what additional information and tweaks are offered. The issue for some is that you have to throw away your Dx9 settings (especially where Nvidia Inspector is concerned) but a print screen of your previous settings and saved with Paint is all you need to be able to revert back.