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View Full Version : thoughts on FSX, FS11 and Flight - meant to be positive...



heywooood
August 19th, 2012, 13:44
Who else besides me thinks that, through the addon developer community (or thanks to them) FSX is just hitting its stride for a long haul?
Thanks to the involvement of Lockheed Martin and the advent of 'Prepared' I think MS must maintain compatibility for FSX into the next several iterations of Windows - yes?
Otherwise there might be some legal friction between them, and LM is well able to take MS to task if there is a breakdown.

So we can look forward to ongoing development of FSX quite possibly for up to a decade more - maybe...?

Brings us to Flight...and what was missed by MS at the outset.
If they had taken FSX to our established and by now well versed 3rd party developers - A2A, ORBX, REX,GEX, Carenado et al (if I did not name ALL of you, it is my fault NOT yours)
and asked " what should we fix? , what can and should be enhanced? and then corrected the code to take advantage of multi-core processors and advanced shaders - fixed DX10 etc..
they would then have had a better shot at long term success - maybe a sure thing, and maybe only had to share a percentage of gross with those who participated (maybe not even that, maybe just knowing the new sim would be open to 3PD would have been enough) - everyone wins....they wouldn't have had to share code with the 3PD's - just listened to their expertise.

Alas - thinking they needed no advice - that they could close off their entire fan base (mostly - I bought in thinking they would HAVE to eventually come around..lol at me) caused the rapid and inevitable demise of what should have been the Flight Sim of the next generation.
Why would they ignore a completely self-sufficient fan base - one that continues to provide them with customers for the FSX boxed software - and go off in an entirely unproven direction? ALL other flight sims rely on their customers for support, development, and feedback... This group shunned us and dismissed us as
relics...only realizing their fatal flaw at the end.

We now have lots of options when it comes to flight simulation...DCS, Rise of Flight, Aerofly FS, and many other titles coming available soon - so at least for now if MS wants to walk away, let them.
But wouldnt it be great if somewhere down the line as FSX Gold continues to sell as does Prepar3d - if someone at MS decided to do the right thing and ASK the people who have turned the sows ear into a silk purse " what if we took another look at this...what would YOU guys like to have in a flight sim?"

I know what I'd tell them...

greenie
August 19th, 2012, 14:35
They still could do a MS11 if they wanted to . Nothing lost maybe ?...just a failed experiment ..moving on ...

falcon409
August 19th, 2012, 14:39
FSX and P3D could be it as far as Flight Simulation goes for the foreseeable future. I don't see MS getting into it much any more as they are looking at it strictly from a business standpoint and we are more personally invested, which the pencil pushers really have no concept of. If Lockheed/Martin continues to refine their product, that could be where the future lies. . .who knows though really.

As for Flight. . . .not much to say there. Sad that another development team got their pink slips before the product ever really got off the ground. Everyone has an opinion on "Flight", no surprise there, but I wasn't impressed with the business model before it was ever released and even less impressed when it finally was released. I don't miss it at all.:salute:

heywooood
August 19th, 2012, 17:41
FSX and P3D could be it as far as Flight Simulation goes for the foreseeable future. I don't see MS getting into it much any more as they are looking at it strictly from a business standpoint and we are more personally invested, which the pencil pushers really have no concept of. If Lockheed/Martin continues to refine their product, that could be where the future lies. . .who knows though really.

As for Flight. . . .not much to say there. Sad that another development team got their pink slips before the product ever really got off the ground. Everyone has an opinion on "Flight", no surprise there, but I wasn't impressed with the business model before it was ever released and even less impressed when it finally was released. I don't miss it at all.:salute:


Well Flight served one purpose quite well : it sold more copies of FSX than would have ever happened through regular marketing methods...the Avsim forum is full of Flight users asking about how to get the
most out of their new FSX software - or whats the difference between FSX and Prepar3d - or what are the best addons to get for FSX etc

seriously - if I didn't know better I might think Flight was just a very expensive ploy to sell FSX

as to how far flight simulation can go..? I think Rise of Flight is the best example of where its going and is already light years ahead of FSX in every category...it just would have been nice to see
MS make a proper "next generation" FS with the same level of atmospherics, lighting and flight model fidelity as RoF

anthony31
August 19th, 2012, 21:45
If they had taken FSX to our established and by now well versed 3rd party developers - A2A, ORBX, REX,GEX, Carenado et al (if I did not name ALL of you, it is my fault NOT yours)
and asked " what should we fix? , what can and should be enhanced? and then corrected the code to take advantage of multi-core processors and advanced shaders - fixed DX10 etc..
they would then have had a better shot at long term success - maybe a sure thing, and maybe only had to share a percentage of gross with those who participated (maybe not even that, maybe just knowing the new sim would be open to 3PD would have been enough) - everyone wins....they wouldn't have had to share code with the 3PD's - just listened to their expertise.


If one reads the AVSIM flight forum it seems that MS did indeed do this. John Venema from ORBX said that they even had some ORBX scenery working within Flight. However, for reasons best known only by MS, they decided to cutoff contact with the 3PD. That may have been because the 3PDs didn't like what MS was showing them. From reading what the various developers had said about their involvement with Flight it seems that MS had already determined what Flight was going to be.

Here is a link to a post from someone claiming to be a 3PD developer who posted anonymously after 3PD involvement with Flight was shutdown. At the time I thought he was probab;y just a nutter but with what ended up happening with flight it seems he was probably genuine.
http://forum.avsim.net/topic/348888-flight-is-not-what-you-are-hoping-for/

heywooood
August 20th, 2012, 17:10
well now there's a bit of news - thank you Anthony - I had not seen all of the Avsim material.

So MS approached some 3PD's but only after having established for themselves what Flight was going to be...not a 'ground floor' invitation to help shape the sim.

I am sure MS were likely quite heavy handed as well - so thanks but no thanks was the consensus of the 3PD's - based on what they knew their customers would be looking for.

Maybe then it was a case of MS deciding to develop Flight (good idea) - then a crew was assembled to decide on the overview, plan, and execution (hmm OK)- that crew looked at FSX and said
"that doesn't have as much potential to create revenue as a console game - MS made X dollars from the sale of FSX,GOLD, Deluxe what have you - but ALL these other guys (combined mind you - not
the individual 3PDs) made X dollars minus internet theft...so - lets make a game - control the content through live servers that ping for piracy - and keep the code including SDK under license and see what the dollars look like. (oh dearGod NO!)

Problem - you don't get gamers to want to learn to fly and you dont get flight simmers to accept gaming in a flight sim so now you have two crippled customer bases instead of one healthy, excited one.
And you are surprised when one half of this hybrid base is turned off by planes without cockpits, radios that don't work, restricted airspace and no AI etc...(all the things they already have and love in FSX)
...and the other half says they're BORED to DEATH with this....thing - you just alienated your fired up fan base (people excited about a product are marketing GOLD) and turned them into an angry mob (opposite of GOLD) for the sake of an untested potential fan base..that NEVER asked for a "flying game that doesn't include racing - or dog fighting - or anything cool"

Oh HOW did it fail.

I guess if they had selected the right people from the outset and listened to their loyal fans and 3PDs we could be telling a far different story today - maybe.
Gotta wonder how much that cost them at MS....and is still costing as they keep those servers running - and if there is anything salvageable in FLIGHT that could be used to make the real FS11
if someone decided "post debacle" to really make an effort to get it right...

olderndirt
August 20th, 2012, 17:53
Since it appears that Prepar3D will be the primary source of FS, the main concern would be that, when the 'all-new' version appears, we don't find that our FSX investments will no longer work.