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middle
October 3rd, 2008, 15:17
Every once in awhile I feel compelled to explain a bit of what being a moderator at SOH entails and this time I'm compelled by Flyby's statment of leaving SOH which I strongly suspect has to do with the banning of Warfreak and possibly of Johann Steve.

Regardless, being a mod means that all I'm/we're doing is attempting to keep some semblance of order here at a virtual gathering place that was put in place for the exchange of ideas related to flight simming. This particular forum, the CFS3 forum is here for the exchange of information related to cfs3 and cfs3 related topics. The topics posted here are not always about flight but for the most part that's what we're all here for. What it isn't is a place to call other people names, to be disrespectful to your fellow human beings, young or old, to insult others or to vent anger because your life isn't the way that you think it should be. As mods we do the best we can to be fair arbiters and overseers of conflict, somewhat akin to being a cop.
When I was a lot younger I had an attitude about cops but as I've aged I've realized that if it wasn't for police then I and my friends and other citizens would have to go out on the streets and try to keep order and deal with folks who for one reason or another couldn't get along with the rest of society. Like it or not, there are rules in society just as there are rules here.
The mods here don't ban anybody...that's the job of the admins who are somewhat like judges in that they mete out sentences for misbehavior according to the standards set within the confines of SOH. The way we mods and admins work together is, for the most part, before we take any action we post in the staff forum so that all the staff can see what's going on in the various "rooms" if you will, or neighborhoods of SOH. The last few days, because of all the activity here in the cfs3 neighbor hood, the admins were watching closely. Actions were taken
to restore order, plain and simple and not everyone agrees with those actions apparently and that's their right to disagree.
One of the issues was "bad language". Being we're in a public forum it's our responsibilty as individuals to curb our tongues...we're not at home and we're not in the street. In real life I really don't care what people say but this is a public place and not everyone has the same standards that I may have so I watch what I say in public. I don't talk in a bank the way I talk at home and I feel the same way about SOH.
The words are only part of it...then you have the context in which the words were used and at that point action was taken that resulted in the banning of, in his own words, "the youngest member of Sim Outhouse" to which he perceived that we were"picking on him" because he was the youngest. That's just not the case..if it had been me or you or anyone of us speaking that way with thsoe words at that time we would have been banned. It's one thing to speak harshly..to type harsly then hit "enter" to post harshness takes a little thought and with the same amount of thought the choice can be made to not hit enter without frist self-editing
the post....the kid made a choice, plain and simple.
The other banning took place as a result of a guy who keot posting links and assuming that he could do with property that was not his as he pleased, albeit intellectual property. He was asked to stop, his post edited, he re-posted, it was edited then it got posted again...it was an exercise in frustration. The admins were notified, he was banned and I have come to find since that it isn't the first time that he had drawn the attention of the admins to himself.
Stuff happens...in the time that I've been a mod here I've seen periods that are like a virus hit the membership and all ryhme and reason goes out the window and things get out of hand and we are diverted from our primary purpose and action has to be taken to restore order. If some guy comes into my house and causes trouble then if I have to toss his butt out to restore order, so be it...same thing here...I've been a member here for quite a long time now and when negative stuff is not dealt with it gets out of hand pretty quickly. There was a time maybe a couple years ago when things got real crazy for a time and the mods and admins agreed to not let it hapen again. If it seems harsh at times, maybe it is, but we're all doing the best we can with what we have to deal with. My hope is that the two people I mentioned here learn from their mistakes....the admins are not unreasonable people and shoud a banned member approach the admins in the spirit of apology after a time then sometimes a banned member is aloowed back in. It all depends in the person and their attitiude
and the action that caused their banishment in the first place.
Dignity and respect are of the utmost importance. There is way too little of it in the world and I for one would like to see an overabundance of it here at SOH.
Thanks, middle

writer301
October 3rd, 2008, 16:36
Bravo Mid :applause: Well said.

As an ex-law enforcement officer myself, I can attest to the many "judgement calls" that must be made on a daily basis. As you brought to light in your post, being a moderator or admin is much the same.

I am coming up on my one year anniversary with SOH. From what I have seen, you and all the staff at SOH have done one heck of a job ...

Thanks All :ernae:

Starspeeder_3000
October 3rd, 2008, 17:03
Dignity and respect are of the utmost importance. There is way too little of it in the world and I for one would like to see an overabundance of it here at SOH.

I could not agree more with this statement. I can certainly understand everyone's frustration as of late. It is very easy to take things out of context online and conflict escalates often when it is unnecessary, sometimes you just have to make a judgement call. I'm fairly quick to forgive someone when they appear appologetic or naive but they loose my trust when it happens several times. I hope we can all learn from past errors, forgive, and move forward.

Lionus
October 3rd, 2008, 17:13
Amen.. if only GTP had this reasonable staff..

grizzly50
October 3rd, 2008, 17:23
:kilroy:My sentiments exactly, Mid. Very well said. Keep up the good work.:d

pachi
October 3rd, 2008, 17:30
100% with ya Mid :ernae: well said

flyer01
October 3rd, 2008, 17:51
:ernae:

Murray Cod
October 3rd, 2008, 20:23
well said Middle.

and it doesn't matter if you are the youngest member or oldest member it is nice to use manners (remember those things) and say things like thankyou if someone sends you some files you have asked for, or at least acknowledge that it has been received (common courtesy that is not so common).


ahhh, I feel better now:ernae:

SLIP STREAM
October 3rd, 2008, 20:37
middle you are a gentelman and its truley a hard position you hold.the kid brought the wrong attitude to the fourm and caused more than one problem.this place is a privilage not a right.hopefully flyby will have a change of heart and relize it had to be done.if this fourm returned to what was happening a "few years ago" i'd leave on that basis not because something was done about it.we'd love to see you back flyby the door is open.

ronnybengt
October 3rd, 2008, 23:18
salutations.....mid.:medals:......we all will miss FLyBY....

R

westview
October 4th, 2008, 03:30
i couldn't agree more:ernae:. I think you've done an excellent job monitoring this forum and i'm sure i speak for many when i say your work is appreciated!

bzhyoyo
October 4th, 2008, 04:21
The other banning took place as a result of a guy who keot posting links and assuming that he could do with property that was not his as he pleased, albeit intellectual property. He was asked to stop, his post edited, he re-posted, it was edited then it got posted again...it was an exercise in frustration. The admins were notified, he was banned and I have come to find since that it isn't the first time that he had drawn the attention of the admins to himself.

Hi Middle, I know you may have seen my post at netwings concerning this issue. As a preamble, I should say that I understand the need for moderating, no question asked about that.
However, the part I don't understand is about the torrent file and Johann.
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?t=384
After reading this thread, I had understood the link had been removed (see post #7).

I'm a bit puzzled because we have two conflicting versions : one where Johann says I'll remove the offending file (NB : not post - two different things) and one where you say it's been reposted several times.
You understand that this may change a lot how I consider the issue. In one case, a member has been unfairly banned, in the other it was warranted.

wolfger
October 4th, 2008, 04:28
Confirmed! :applause:

cptroyce
October 4th, 2008, 08:55
Mid- Absolutely!

Adherence to basic common sense, decency and respect unfortunately often needs enforcing.

Royce

corpse grinder
October 4th, 2008, 09:09
:applause::applause:

O-1Driver
October 4th, 2008, 09:24
I agree with the actions of the SOH staff and always have. The STAFF does not need to defend to me any actions that they take.

However I would like to see this thread closed and deleted as it will continue to stir up emotions concerning Johann. I have know him a long time here on SOH and feel he is an honest person of high integrity who simply screwed up. He has apologized to me and the entire Groundhog team. He has also expressed to me that he feels SOH banned him for good reason.

I sincerely believe he was trying to help the Groundhogs and was wrong in the way he did it. I feel personal responsibilty for this misunderstanding and feel it would not have happened if we had not screwed up the download of ETO. That fiasco was directly my responsibility.

Please close this thread.

Best Regards,

O-1 Driver

middle
October 4th, 2008, 09:35
I will close this now after I post this from Moapr Mike...
Hi,

I saw your post in Flyby's thread and here is what I know on the subject of Johann Steve's ban.

He placed the 0.49b version up for download on eMule and posted the link in the ETO sticky thread. Middle edited the links and asked him to not post them until the whole ETO team had a chance to discuss if that would be an acceptable plan to distribute ETO. rbp71854 asked him to stop until a decision was made, yet the link was also posted in another thread.

Middle edited the links out and also posted that he should wait until the ETO crew came to a decision on how they would like to distribute it.

Middle had asked for advice from other staffers on how to handle the situation and one of the other admins decided that since the warning to stop posting the link was ignored Johann steve was banned following the SOH Terms of Use. IN particular, the last paragraph which states

Quote:
By Agreeing, you warrant that you will follow all the above rules and not post any messages or materials that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-orientated, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violate any laws.


By not following rbp71854's request to respect the ETO copyright, this was a copyright law violation and resulted in the ban.

Hope this helps clarify the situation.

Mike

O-1Driver
October 4th, 2008, 09:39
Thanks Mid,

O-1

middle
October 4th, 2008, 09:47
Yer Welcome, 01