It's time for the bull to go.

[spotlope]

Maybe I'm alone in this, but I'm thinking the BS smilie needs to take a hike. Just today, I've seen it used in two ugly posts, one railing against a developer, and one personally attacking a respected forum member. I'm sure that somebody thought it was cute to add, but its very existence seems to be dragging this forum into the muck. What's next, an emoticon of someone getting shot in the head? How about one of someone kicking an old lady into traffic?

Just my two cents.

[Boomer]

I agree.

It adds nothing but takes away much.

[N2056]

I wouldn't miss it...

[n4gix]

Well, the one who abused it is now history, thanks to being silly enough to mouth off to an Administrator... :ernae:

[loganpass]

Well, the one who abused it is now history, thanks to being silly enough to mouth off to an Administrator... :ernae:

Glad that justice was swift. I had this very subject on my mind so I'll throw my hat in the ring with Spotlope et al... the bovine needs to take "the long walk"!

[djscoo]

Dang, I missed whatever you guys are talking about...but i agree, this forum seems to hold its self to a higher standard than most, and I too have seen that emoticon misused in many a post.
Plus, it's kinda disgusting...

[PutPut]

This forum and the FFDS forum are the only ones I visit on a regular basis just because they are not full of B---.

Cheers, Paul

[Scratch]

Yup, let's barb-b-que the cow:ernae:

[MCDesigns]

Yep, I agree, no................

[naravac]

RANT MODE ON: Why put that as a smilie for? Its not good for the reputation of SOH.

SOH is one of the best forums that I been involved with in my short time being on here. Also you dont need swearing on forums. RANT MODE: OFF

[tigisfat]

really guys? I kinda like it. It's a nice way of dogging something in a more friendly way. Just because it's powers have been used for evil instead of good sometimes doesn't mean it's all bad. I've seen it used several times to properly convey the humor of a situation without it being aimed at anyone's feelings.

[MudMarine]

Is removing it going to stop people from being jackasses? No!

[spotlope]

Good lord, no. In fact, nothing will stop some people from being completely disagreeable. My thought was just that by having an emoticon like that, we're encouraging exactly the kind of behavior that some of us hate on other forums. I mean, if the cow stays, why not go the full distance and have a "f&$# you" emoticon as well? You see what I'm saying. There's always gonna be graffiti - that doesn't mean we have to hand out free spray paint.

[grumpos]

Good lord, no. In fact, nothing will stop some people from being completely disagreeable. My thought was just that by having an emoticon like that, we're encouraging exactly the kind of behavior that some of us hate on other forums. I mean, if the cow stays, why not go the full distance and have a "f&$# you" emoticon as well? You see what I'm saying. There's always gonna be graffiti - that doesn't mean we have to hand out free spray paint.

great point.

Best wishes
Steve P

[fliger747]

But Steve.....

[robby88]

I'd be happy to see the bull go too. It's not just the FSX forum. I noticed a downturn in one of the other forums when the bull was introduced a few weeks ago.

[tigisfat]

There is a huge difference between actually saying $#@% you and saying that's bullcrap, and the huge difference is still there if we had icons for both. We can rid this webpage of the bullcrap smiley, but we don't need to convince ourselves that it's more than it is. That's all I'm saying. That's like a strict town finally allowing knives, and stepping in to say something like "What's next, bazookas?! OMG!! We're all doomed!!"

[gajit]

That bull was introduced in good time as there have been a lot of products recently that are just not being launched without proper testing and with limited screenshots on their product pages.

Its sensorship again coming in now. Next we wont be able to say that a product is bad.

I depend on the honest findings of the good people who frequent this forum to spot issues with products hopefully before i buy them. If we can only say nice things (and i would guess that well over 80% of the posts do so) then SOH will lose something important. Integrity.

[stiz]

Just today, I've seen it used in two ugly posts, one railing against a developer, and one personally attacking a respected forum member

both by the same person ;) I dont think its doing any damage at all, its just a smilie folks, i havnt seen it used all that much in any case and i dont find it disgusting, but then i've got 2 dogs and live near a farm so ... :icon_lol:


someone getting shot in the head?

well we can do someone getting shot: :blind: :sniper:

someone dancing: :tgun2::jump:

someone shooting down what looks like the hindinburg to me but then again might be a chilly: :tgun2::ichile:

and of course theres the classic laughing at someone, which might hurt their feelings and ruining their self confedense and thus stop them from following their dreams which end up to finding the cure for cancer: :p87:


just haveing a laugh dont take it as insulting :ernae:

[gajit]

A point very well made there Stiz :applause:

[boxcar]

...Just because it's powers have been used for evil instead of good sometimes doesn't mean it's all bad...
As with certain lame-duck politicians these days. Spoken like a true adherent of Leo Strauss.

Have to agree, though, in the largest sense: Can't be insulted unless you want to be.

In principle: Guns don't kill people. People kill with guns. Even poor taste "smilies" can be used or abused.
.

[Lionheart]

LOLOL... :costumes:

Too funny Stiz...



Bill

[Piglet]

Make a pig making a poop, then I'll be happy!:bs::bs:
Whatever you think of ole' bullpooper, that's some pretty neat ani's!

[gajit]

:applause::applause::applause:

[harleyman]

I sorta liked it,and used it myself like 4 times,in an appropiate manner as a way of saying was crapola.....

But it was slightly rude,in a funny sort of way I guess

It was a good way to get a point across...Buddy,you are full of :bs:....LOL


But then again words can be way more offensive than that If you so choose.....

So you must see how its used in context....

Stay or go.....Won't hurt my feelings to loose it what so ever.....

[Thoe6969]

Don;t see a thing at all wrong with it,it's the way the post is worded that makes it improper.

[Kiwikat]

Is removing it going to stop people from being jackasses? No!

:costumes: Perfect.

[MudMarine]

Good lord, no. In fact, nothing will stop some people from being completely disagreeable. My thought was just that by having an emoticon like that, we're encouraging exactly the kind of behavior that some of us hate on other forums. I mean, if the cow stays, why not go the full distance and have a "f&$# you" emoticon as well? You see what I'm saying. There's always gonna be graffiti - that doesn't mean we have to hand out free spray paint.


I see what you're saying but........ Emoticon's don't encourage people to be jackasses, they allready come here with that "ammo". They'll always find the spray paint.

The only thing we can control is how we react to idiots. Example; the disrespectful moron that got banned yesterday. As soon as I saw that stupid cow I knew this would be coming....stay or go, I really don't care, it's not worth the emotion.

[MudMarine]

both by the same person ;) I dont think its doing any damage at all, its just a smilie folks, i havnt seen it used all that much in any case and i dont find it disgusting, but then i've got 2 dogs and live near a farm so ... :icon_lol:



well we can do someone getting shot: :blind: :sniper:

someone dancing: :tgun2::jump:

someone shooting down what looks like the hindinburg to me but then again might be a chilly: :tgun2::ichile:

and of course theres the classic laughing at someone, which might hurt their feelings and ruining their self confedense and thus stop them from following their dreams which end up to finding the cure for cancer: :p87:


just haveing a laugh dont take it as insulting :ernae: Very well done Stiz!!

[Boomer]

The notion that taking away the cow is censorship is ludicrous. By extension of thought we were all censored prior to its adoption.

When I was a teenager the 1st time my mother heard me use profanity she said something that has stuck with me for the rest of my life. "Profanity is a weak mind trying to express itself". Dont get me wrong, I am not the puritanical sort & if I hit my thumb with a hammer I will weaver a string of curses that will make a sailor blush. However such conduct is not acceptable here.

Personally I always try to make my posts lucid & cogent. It is so much to ask/expect that a persons opinion about a product/idea/individual be similarly cogent & in good taste?

[PRB]

Spotloe, I was just thinking the same thing!
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
“Emoticons” were “invented” to replace the non-verbal component of human communication, which is at least half of the data conveyed when people talk to each other. This makes some sense, and helps avoid misunderstands, sometimes. The most useful of these being the smiley one. :mixedsmi: But some of these emoticons are used just for fun and serve no other “communication enhancing” purpose. Some people around here manage to tell their tales with no emoticons at all. They write complete sentences and express actual thoughts. Why do books contain no emoticons? How on earth can we get anything out of them? Writing wasn’t invented to emulate speech, but to document and preserve thoughts and concepts. Look at the difference between the writing styles of novels vs. history books. Novel writers use amazing and endless “devices” to make the written word “seem like” their characters are talking. If we take some time to think about what we want to say, then write it, we wouldn’t need half of these things. The cow emoticon was invented only so we could all say “bull****!” to each other without actually standing up and saying it. I was tired of seeing it after the second time it was used.

I like this one, please don't delete it! :friday::d

[Roger]

I have to agree with Bill's point. I think the more offensive smilies should go and the BS smilie is the worst. If a smilie is available to express a sentiment that the writer would not wish to express in written form then it in effect urges a poster to be more offensive than if the smilie didn't exist.

[jmig]

Okay guys, I am one who in real life tends to use profanity more than I should. I blame it on the oil fields of the 1960s. But, those jobs paid for me to get through college and into the USAF, so it wasn't all bad.

I am one who is against most censorship of things that happen to evoke disagreeable feelings in someone else. Bill, I respect and admire you a lot. I respect your opinion on this but I disagree with your stand.

To me there really is little difference between writing, Bull S&%t, bull$hit, or :bs:. The reader understands the comment and, if you did a good job of explaining yourself, the context. It is the context of the idea being expressed that is important. Not how crude or refined the language.

Bandit's banning came not from using the icon but from his attitude and disrespect of others. I have known people who will smile at you and be as nice as a sunny spring morning, only to stab you in the back as soon as you leave. I rather that person just told me to "get f%$ed." <- censor program won't let me write the word, but you will say it in your mind.

BTW - If I personally ever use language that offends your sensibilities, tell me, either in a follow up post or through PM. I will try and honor your sensibilities. While I can be blunt, I will not intentionally insult a person.

[jmig]

both by the same person ;) I dont think its doing any damage at all, its just a smilie folks, i havnt seen it used all that much in any case and i dont find it disgusting, but then i've got 2 dogs and live near a farm so ... :icon_lol:


someone shooting down what looks like the hindinburg to me but then again might be a chilly: :tgun2::ichile:


Hey stiz the :ichile: is used by the university where my wife is employed. It represents the "hot" sports teams (well, they would LIKE to be hot) and the local Tabasco pepper.

So, lay off my pepper! Or I won't :ernae: with you any more. :costumes:

[Pepere]

Just have the bull without the pooh. It's okay to say "that's bull" Less offensive by fart! :costumes:

David :kilroy:

[Prowler1111]

It´s just an emoticon for God´s sake!!!
Guys, i really respect all your opinions, but i´m sick of watching action flicks "politically correct" or great war movies "censored" and a HUGE ect, just because it can be taken as offensive, etc etc.The :censored: that started the personal attack on that thread is history..leave like that.C´mon, i tend to think of this place as my personal "cheers", don´t turn it into a :censored: convent, ´cause no one is going to order booze anymore.

Thank God the:bs: ain´t flying and it aint deadly...

Prowler

[michael davies]

Guns are not dangerous....only the finger on the trigger.

Automobiles are not lethal weapons....only the driver behind the wheel.

Emoticons are not offensive....only the person behind the keyboard.

Like everything in life, abuse it and you can expect swift justice from the relevant quarters.

Personally I don't like the emoticon or even the term BS, its crass and often used as an excuse for in-articulate language skills, but I'm one of 18,179 active members so reality is my POV counts for very little. I work in an enviroment where every third word is the F word, its about the only profanity thats not racist, sectarian, sexist or political, but there is a time and place for it, here isnt one of them.

Best

Michael

[Dain Arns]

Alright. It came to a head for me this morning. It's very obvious all of you have forgotten one very important point.

NONE of you posting here in this thread, own this website, one man does. Very few of us contribute to the cause, most folks do not, yet I see a lot of them griping in this thread about a silly emoticon.

Even if we do contribute, what right do we have to call the shots here? Huh? if the Man wants to put an emoticon up he likes, he can. If he wants to pull the plug on the site, he can. Get it?

You basically have free will to decide if you want to use or not use this silly graphic. I choose not to. But I respect Ickie's choice of what content he wants on his site, first.

:a1451:

[MudMarine]

Point taken. So we're not a community but a dicatorship? And I'll continue to contribute what I can to the operation of this website no matter if there's a cow pooping or not. :costumes:

[heywooood]

seems like a big to-do...more or less

this forum is the most mild mannered one I've yet encountered and there is nothing wrong with that at all

I see the point spotlope is making but its just a caricature, that smilie in question, so it goes back to point of view and perception - just like all other forms of communication...or weaponry.

If a person using either is deemed by the majority to have intended to do harm - then address the individual and lets all mooove on, eh? :ernae:
I refuse to be harmed by an anonymous 'someones' oppinion of me on an internet forum no matter how they express it.

[spotlope]

Wow, Dain's got hackles! You go, brother. It's true that Ickie can put whatever emoticon he likes into the stable and there's not much any of us can do about it. Let me rephrase my original post, then. How about if we just treat one another as if we were standing face-to-face instead of isolated behind computer screens? A little respect is all I'm talking about. Having a bad day and feel like yelling at someone? Go kick the cat instead.

All this talk of censorship is a little silly. This forum (and most others) has always practiced censorship. It's a fact of life online. Ever read the user agreement? Patrick Henry would be appalled. :costumes:

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

It is one persons decision...

That said Stiz is right. I have a hard time seeing how a cow (more likely a steer but certainly not a bull - based on the visual) taking a dump would be more offensive or less politically correct to anyone than emoticons showing one shooting another in the head with a gun.

Course maybe we don't want to run the risk of what happens when Halo3 gets taken away.

My opinion is simple either leave the steer or do a more thorough job of cleaning up the emoticons. Either way is fine with me - as I don't use either of the two types.

-Ed-

[Cazzie]

Wow, Dain's got hackles! You go, brother. It's true that Ickie can put whatever emoticon he likes into the stable and there's not much any of us can do about it. Let me rephrase my original post, then. How about if we just treat one another as if we were standing face-to-face instead of isolated behind computer screens? A little respect is all I'm talking about. Having a bad day and feel like yelling at someone? Go kick the cat instead.

All this talk of censorship is a little silly. This forum (and most others) has always practiced censorship. It's a fact of life online. Ever read the user agreement? Patrick Henry would be appalled. :costumes:

Tis true Bill, besides, if'n ya wants t' pick a fight, we have Canelo's! :icon_lol:

Caz

[Pepere]

Love the clock :jump:

http://www.canelo.com/home.html


David :kilroy:

[Bjoern]

:bs::sniper:

:tgun2::bs:

:bs:
....:icon36:

......................:icon31:




:bs:



First and last time I will use this smiley. My attitude towards it is pretty obvious.

[boxcar]

.
Don't care who you are... that's funny right there.

Good one(s), Bjoern.
.

[Dain Arns]

Point taken. So we're not a community but a dicatorship? And I'll continue to contribute what I can to the operation of this website no matter if there's a cow pooping or not. :costumes:

I do appreciate your contributions to the community, MM, but you of all folks know that in all the many areas of our lives, we often answer to a man in charge, yes? That is the point I am making. Respecting your Host.

So I'll state it another way, I guess. We're all guests in this here community at Ickie's expense. He pays the bills, and has often, out-of-pocket himself. I really respect that. Running a large forum site like SoH is not easy. As an example we're quite aware of, Ickie's spent long hours cleaning up the messes from hacker attacks and server failures, so we can continue to enjoy this, our community.

Dictatorship is a rather harsh word to use, in my opinion, for someone who has been extremely generous with us over the years, including this Christmas, and has often put up with our community squabbles without a judgmental word. Frankly, if he wants to add a flying pig emoticon to the smilies gallery, so be it. He owns the right to do so, we just have the privileges to comment about it. I honor that.

I really don't think thats too much respect to ask for and honor here. But then again, thats my opinion, and I'm entitled to it, just as you are entitled to own opinion. :wavey:

[Bjoern]

.
Don't care who you are... that's funny right there.

Good one(s), Bjoern.
.

Thanks! :jump:

You gotta keep the crowd entertained, don't you? :icon_lol:

[GT182]

I'd like to see it replaced with these two.....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/GT182/Thumbup.gif - Thumbup

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/GT182/sigpic336_1.gif - Salute

It's time to have a couple that reflect JWD... IMHO.

[gera]

If all this is about the :bs:.........it´s silly. I personally think its funny that´s all....................................some people have sick minds....To the "Master and Friend" owner of this really nice Forum:applause::applause:.....thanks for the "funny" Smilies,:ernae: let´s see some more for 2009, and thanks for letting us in here during 2008, I really enjoy it here........................:kilroy::kilroy:.

Some people should be flying a kite right now!!!!:costumes:

[GT182]

Niels, do you have the link for the clock? I had it years ago but lost it and it's the first I've seen it again. It was a great way to drive yerself nuts moving around. :costumes:

[Lionheart]

Id like to see that thumbs up and the salute added. That would be cool... I'd use the heck out of those...


What if we just put the cow with the 'waist issue' in the 'more' folder, out of sight. Then we still have it, but its hidden from plain view, so we dont have to see it pooping and pooping and pooping... over and over and over again, lol....




Bill

[spotlope]

I cannot tell you how deeply sorry I am for bringing this up. Good grief, I didn't imagine it would become a full-fledged debate! Keep the bull, lose the bull, does me no never mind. My sensibilities aren't nearly so delicate, I'm just concerned that we not become another slugfest forum where people go to unload on each other. I doubt it will come to that in any case... I was just worried that we were taking a turn for the nasty.

[gera]

Jesus Perez Banana please help him!!!!! please:isadizzy:

[Henry]

If The :ernae::guinness: went i Would Have to resign :icon_lol:
The Staff here do a great job of deeming when
things get out of line and how to handle them
Cow Poop or BS?
H

[hey_moe]

It wasn't the cow that got the member in trouble. Once a member tells another member to eat chet and then jump on a admin., moderator or a member and start more trash after he had been warned to stop...the only thing left is to do a booty. The moo-moo with the droppings is just a cow tird....when you direct it towards a member it is the number one rule we have here that we don't allow. We all make mistakes...but after you have been warned to stop and you keep mouthing off...what else is there left to do...Mike:isadizzy:

[Pepere]

Amen :kilroy:

David

[Ickie]

I have said this before and will say it again,
"I do not force you to come here, nor do I force you to stay":bs:

[Henry]

I have said this before and will say it again,
"I do not force you to come here, nor do I force you to stay":bs:
AAAHHHH get those darned flies :costumes:
LOL
H

[PRB]

That’s it? “Screw you” … ? Can we get a middle finger extended emoticon now to go with the cow taking a dump one?
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
Of the people who agreed with Bill W when he started this thread (me included), none of them (us) suggested that we thought the ill-fated “Bandit” was excommunicated simply because he used the cow scat icon. He sure as heck wasn’t the first one to use it, so why would anyone think that?
<o:p></o:p>
And I don’t understand the melodrama associated with posts such as “You people don’t own this site!!! You don’t get to call the shots!!! So just shut it!!!” It’s not that big a deal, in the grand scheme of things, really. The OP was expressing a thought. I think that’s still allowed around here. I think we also understood, before this thread, that we don’t own this site. At least I wasn’t under any such illusion.
<o:p></o:p>
And nobody was advocating anything remotely related to “political correctness”. Where did that come from?
<o:p></o:p>
This thread went bizarre.

[harleyman]

I have said this before and will say it again,
"I do not force you to come here, nor do I force you to stay":bs:




LOL I heard that.........:costumes: :wavey:

[Henry]

Yall do notice the flies from Ickies post like the
cow Dung
so its realy your fault
:costumes:
LOL
H

[Panther_99FS]

Alrightee...
Now that things are settled here...Can we get back to FSX :ques::ernae:

[MCDesigns]

Alrightee...
Now that things are settled here...Can we get back to FSX :ques::ernae:

Sure..............................:isadizzy:

[N2056]

Good one! :costumes:

[MudMarine]

I do appreciate your contributions to the community, MM, but you of all folks know that in all the many areas of our lives, we often answer to a man in charge, yes? That is the point I am making. Respecting your Host.

So I'll state it another way, I guess. We're all guests in this here community at Ickie's expense. He pays the bills, and has often, out-of-pocket himself. I really respect that. Running a large forum site like SoH is not easy. As an example we're quite aware of, Ickie's spent long hours cleaning up the messes from hacker attacks and server failures, so we can continue to enjoy this, our community.

Dictatorship is a rather harsh word to use, in my opinion, for someone who has been extremely generous with us over the years, including this Christmas, and has often put up with our community squabbles without a judgmental word. Frankly, if he wants to add a flying pig emoticon to the smilies gallery, so be it. He owns the right to do so, we just have the privileges to comment about it. I honor that.

I really don't think thats too much respect to ask for and honor here. But then again, thats my opinion, and I'm entitled to it, just as you are entitled to own opinion. :wavey:

You TOTALLY misunderstood my intent! I never called Ickie a dictator.....nor do I think he ever has been.......wheew! It's about expressing your opinion on a open forum, resprectfully!

Wake up people the cow doesn't get anyone in trouble it's their bad attitude that does.........End this thread Mr. Dictator man who ever you are!! hehe :-)

[harleyman]

Sure..............................:isadizzy:



I've heard of cow tipping..But never cow shooting out the sky....:costumes:

[Ickie]

dictator

2 years ago I retired, .....
This server was than hit by mega bots and no-one could fix the server, I came back only as a service to the community to fix the server.
I had a heart attack working for you, well its time to re-retire
Heck I don't even have a flight sim installed on my computer, why did I stay, well I thought I was needed.
Yes I am the dictator who placed the BS smilly here and did so to give you a little laugh in your booring posts.

Do Not call me or email me!!!
run this server your way.
BTW The server contract runs out in 60 days, you figure it out.

[Ickie]

Help Wanted
Server Manager,
Must Be Legelly Responceable for all its contents under international law.
Must Have up front money, non returnable.
Must put up credit info on the internet for all to see.
Must know linux inside and out.
Must know MySql scripts
Must be able to make harsh judgement calls and stick by them.
Must work when needed 24/7
Must monitor server 12+ hours a day /365
The pay is a few kind words.

Come on all you "BIG Mouths", stand up! Its your turn to shine.:bs:

[Nick C]

Well I don't know what's happened to everybody this Christmas, maybe it's the economy, war or politics, but it all seems to have gotten out of hand with the result we have above. If SOH is closing well it's been fun while it's lasted, but I'd rather hope that people can settle their differences and move forward.

[gera]

Help Wanted
Server Manager,
Must Be Legelly Responceable for all its contents under international law.
Must Have up front money, non returnable.
Must put up credit info on the internet for all to see.
Must know linux inside and out.
Must know MySql scripts
Must be able to make harsh judgement calls and stick by them.
Must work when needed 24/7
Must monitor server 12+ hours a day /365
The pay is a few kind words.

Come on all you "BIG Mouths", stand up! Its your turn to shine.:bs:

Hi Amigo........Some people never learn no matter how old they are..." Those usually throw a rock and hide their hand" or come later out saying " I din´t mean it, gee you got me wrong"......I also have a Forum and its a hassle with those guys so I understand how you feel.......I see your point and agree 1000% with you.......anyway, I think the bull is pretty funny and use it with a smile in my face......May you have a Great 2009 and please don´t you even think of " misfits" than roam the earth.......there are too many of them.:kilroy::kilroy:........I second you..

Come on all you "BIG Mouths", stand up! Its your turn to shine.:bs:

[michael davies]

2 years ago I retired, .....
This server was than hit by mega bots and no-one could fix the server, I came back only as a service to the community to fix the server.
I had a heart attack working for you, well its time to re-retire
Heck I don't even have a flight sim installed on my computer, why did I stay, well I thought I was needed.
Yes I am the dictator who placed the BS smilly here and did so to give you a little laugh in your booring posts.

Do Not call me or email me!!!
run this server your way.
BTW The server contract runs out in 60 days, you figure it out.

Retirement is a fools errand LOL, you cannot escape....we have all the tunnels mapped and watched 24/7, try as you might it is impossible, I know I've tried it.....ohh at least a dozen times, must have attempted to retire more times than I've not completed a model....and thats a lot of times !.

Not happy to see a possible closure in 60 days, but since retiring ( for the 13th time ) I'm a little more pragmatic, times change, nothing stays the same no matter how much we want it to. On a more serious note, if its kicking back on your health ( it did on mine ) then its not a laughing matter anymore.

I'm sad to say and I fear not what people write after this, your health is paramount and far exceeds a forum for fans of a game, if the closure of SoH enhances your health then thats good enough for me.

They say the sign of a good party is the number of bottles you have to wade through in the monring, way I see it, its knee deep round here :ernae:

Sincerely

Michael Davies
(retired....really...honest !! :isadizzy: )

[GT182]

WOW, that is sad news Ron. I do hope you stay but your heath is more important. If we have 60 days, so be it. You've done a great job with little reward other than us saying... "you did good and we appreciate your hard work". It's a "job" not many of us could or would take on. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/GT182/Thumbup.gif http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/GT182/sigpic336_1.gif