How about a fresh look for good ole BoB airfields?

[kelticheart]

A good day to everybody! :wavey:

While dancing the floors, walls and furniture merengue of the second major quake next door in ten days, I thought that dedicating some time to the good ole' Burns' BoB RAF airfields could have been a good way to quench my worries and take my mind off from things I can't control.

Extracting the layouts and modifying them thanks to Martin Wright's GSL tools and Lindsay Watts' GSL tutorial was a matter of few minutes.
Then replacing some old objects with Wolfi's and Canion's ETO libraries, swapping old CFS1 objects for better looking ones and, finally, adding some vehicles for a more lively Hawkinge was quite a lot of fun.

The result is attached below, while the original work done by Gary is still evident, a fresh coat of small details here and there created, in my opinion, a nice atmosphere.

What do you think, should I keep doing some landscaping in Ye Olde Sod?

Darn...my chair just shook slightly as I was writing, the experts are telling us this could go on for weeks, months or even years before the two Po Valley faults, that started acting up on last May 20th 8 to 11 km under our feet, will go back to sleep. :sheep: Not funny.

Cheers!
KH :ernae:

[Rami]

Stef,

That's fantastic! May I make one request? Get rid of the "oiltank" object, and use the ones from Pen32Win's AF airfield package. :salute:

I'm about 60 missions in to the German side of BoB...but I'm stuck right now in library hell. :isadizzy:

[kelticheart]

Stef,

That's fantastic! May I make one request? Get rid of the "oiltank" object, and use the ones from Pen32Win's AF airfield package. :salute:

I'm about 60 missions in to the German side of BoB...but I'm stuck right now in library hell. :isadizzy:

Aye, aye, sir! Nice to hear from you! :wavey:

Should I use the large or the medium ones, (the latter match better the size of the original ones) green or blue?

What do you think of my rendition of Al Deere's mount for YAS MkIA v.2 (the PR-F version)?

Cheers!
KH :sheep::ernae:

[Rami]

Stef,

The medium ones are fine, and please continue updating! :icon29:

The "library hell" is the transferring of files from the old archive to the new library, with all the sims transferring over, I have about 1,000 files to catalog and moderate at any given time...I gave up trying to keep up after the second day.

[kdriver]

Hi kelticheart,

You're doing a great job.

I did the same to a couple of airfields when Pen32Win's package came out. I replaced the hangars at Coltishall and Scampton with C-Types, the ones which were actually built at those fields. I also got rid of the remaining default large hangars at Lossiemouth and used T-Types.

As for the fuel storage, Hawkinge, like most, if not all, RAF airfields had underground tanks. Cees Donker made one of these structures, which is now part of a project to convert all of his buildings to destructible library objects.

If you would like this new airfield buildings library to try out, I can send it to you. The buildings are still indestructible. Robert John is showing me how to convert them to destructible objects.

Kevin

[Robert John]

Hi Everyone,
Great job.
I do not know what is wrong with the oiltank except if you use TAF_G20OBJ_Update and follow install instructions you will lose the oiltank and get error messages.
RJ.

[Cody Coyote]

Keep up the good work Kelti. I like to subtle enhancements, just right. :applause:

[kelticheart]

Hi kelticheart,

You're doing a great job.

I did the same to a couple of airfields when Pen32Win's package came out. I replaced the hangars at Coltishall and Scampton with C-Types, the ones which were actually built at those fields. I also got rid of the remaining default large hangars at Lossiemouth and used T-Types.

As for the fuel storage, Hawkinge, like most, if not all, RAF airfields had underground tanks. Cees Donker made one of these structures, which is now part of a project to convert all of his buildings to destructible library objects.

If you would like this new airfield buildings library to try out, I can send it to you. The buildings are still indestructible. Robert John is showing me how to convert them to destructible objects.

Kevin


Hi Kevin,

thank you and everybody else for your kind comments!

This buried fuel storage, which I was not aware of, is opening up a whole new scenario. It only figures right anyway, since those tanks always looked to me as too good targets to be true!

It means I'll have to go back to all the UK airfields I did and get rid of exposed fuel tanks. I did several, since I reviewed Achim's ETO sceneries and populated with objects many of Pen's 2TAF stunning airfields as well.

All fictional, of course, since I have no photo sources of WWII British airports as well as the rest of Europe. "C" hangars in Coltishall and Scrampton, you say? The great looking new "C" hangars Pen included in his overhaul of Gary Burns' object library will fit in great! I was planning to replace some of them in Burns' BoB collection as well, since I noticed old CFS1 hangars were used here and there.

Have you got other info about which type of hangar was used and where? I would love to put together an almost-historical collection and will gladly post it here when I am done.

I am sending you a pm for the Cees Donker's library you are kindly offering and I will replace the exposed tanks with the buried ones.

If this is not yet another one of those great SOH knowledge sharing and pooling I don't know what else it is! :jump:

Robert John:

I don't understand why you should have such problem. In my case, installing Pen32Win's overhauled Burns' British objects, just replaced the old BoB fuel tank with a nicer looking one, I believe the same "blue-medium" tank he included in his earlier AF Allied Airfield buildings pack.

Cheers!
KH :ernae:

[Seagull V]

Hello Kelti

Stay safe and well with those tremors, multiple tremors over time can also weaken structures so keep an eye on your buildings around you.

For additional information about hangars check out the Google Sketchup 3D site, some people there have done some excellent work:-
http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/search?q=hangars+RAF&styp=m&scoring=t&btnG=Search&reps=3&start=0
http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/search?q=Airfield+RAF&styp=m&scoring=t&btnG=Search&reps=6

also of interest:-
http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/search?q=Flak&styp=m&scoring=t&btnG=Search&reps=4
http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/search?q=Regelbau&styp=m&scoring=t&btnG=Search
http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/search?q=Bunker&styp=m&scoring=t&btnG=Search&reps=1
http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/search?q=Radar+German&styp=m&scoring=t&btnG=Search&reps=4
http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/search?q=WW2&styp=m&scoring=t&btnG=Search&reps=7
http://sketchup.google.com/3dwarehouse/search?q=Tanks&styp=m&scoring=t&btnG=Search&reps=8

Regards, SGV

[watchdog22]

Great job Kelti :salute: I look forward to downloading them when you''re ready

[Robert John]

"Robert John:

I don't understand why you should have such problem. In my case, installing Pen32Win's overhauled Burns' British objects, just replaced the old BoB fuel tank with a nicer looking one, I believe the same "blue-medium" tank he included in his earlier AF Allied Airfield buildings pack".


Not a problem for myself, it may have been a problem for newer users.

Here is a old thread

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?65393-TAF-Gary20-BGL-Update-Pak-problem-oiltank

[kdriver]

Have you got other info about which type of hangar was used and where? I would love to put together an almost-historical collection and will gladly post it here when I am done.

I am sending you a pm for the Cees Donker's library you are kindly offering and I will replace the exposed tanks with the buried ones.

Hi KH,

Received the PM and the package is on its way.

The Gary Burns airfields are actually pretty accurate as far as buildings go with what was available at the time. They are situated at the same locations as CFS 1 which in a number of cases are incorrect.

If you install Ian Elliot's and Cees Donker's airfields, you'll see quite accurate depictions of each aerodrome. They are not GSL but the latest computers shouldn't have any trouble with them.

As for the hangars, the RAF built some substantial ones in the expansion period before the war. The C-Type generally had brick walls. As the war progressed, more and more airfields were being constructed at a rapid rate, so the hangars became all metal lighter fabrications.

If you type the name of each RAF airfield into Wikipedia, you'll often get a wartime aerial shot of the field.

Here's a couple of lists of hangars which are still is use today and also a shot of Debden where you can make out the C-Type hangars, not only because they are labelled as such, but you cans see the saw-tooth roofs.

Cheers,

KD

[kdriver]

Here's the underground fuel bunker at Hawkinge today: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rN_Hfvf1pto

[kdriver]

And here's the bible of UK airfield locations - co-ordinates & Google Earth: http://www.homepages.mcb.net/bones/UK_Airfield_Catalogue/uk.htm

[kelticheart]

Hi KH,

Received the PM and the package is on its way.

The Gary Burns airfields are actually pretty accurate as far as buildings go with what was available at the time. They are situated at the same locations as CFS 1 which in a number of cases are incorrect.

If you install Ian Elliot's and Cees Donker's airfields, you'll see quite accurate depictions of each aerodrome. They are not GSL but the latest computers shouldn't have any trouble with them.

As for the hangars, the RAF built some substantial ones in the expansion period before the war. The C-Type generally had brick walls. As the war progressed, more and more airfields were being constructed at a rapid rate, so the hangars became all metal lighter fabrications.

If you type the name of each RAF airfield into Wikipedia, you'll often get a wartime aerial shot of the field.

Here's a couple of lists of hangars which are still is use today and also a shot of Debden where you can make out the C-Type hangars, not only because they are labelled as such, but you cans see the saw-tooth roofs.

Cheers,

KD


Hi KD!

Ah, Debden.........here's an historical airfield of topmost importance for both the BoB and later the 8th USAAF war effort that's missing real bad from the CFS2 ETO universe. :rolleyes:

The only scenery we can get for Debden is Jurassic GZR Debden, which even looks like a post-war airfield, loaded with non-GSL objects, the sim crawls when flying from there just a single, non multi-LOD aircraft converted from FS9. Another airport that our scenery gurus could get around to is Church Fenton, often mentioned during the BoB. :mix-smi:

I think I have Cees Donkers's and Ian Astill complete collection, I'll see if I'll be able to use the available GSL designs from Achim's ETO sceneries to imitate those airports. I already modified Canion's "Dambuster" Waddington using Ian's Waddington as a guideline, but they cannot come out the same because the design of runways, taxiways and wornout areas is different. Cees Donkers' is more specialised in late-war RAF or USAAF airports, what I am looking for now is to update Gary Burns' BoB fields.

Thanks for all the info you are providing me with.

Cheers!
KH :ernae:

[Rami]

Kelti,

I asked Achim to build Debden and North Weald for the Luftwaffe side to BoB I'm about seventy missions into. He's doing them, along with the SCW airfields.

I recognized that this was a real missing chink in the armor, and am doing what I can to get it rectified.

[kelticheart]

Kelti,

I asked Achim to build Debden and North Weald for the Luftwaffe side to BoB I'm about seventy missions into. He's doing them, along with the SCW airfields.

I recognized that this was a real missing chink in the armor, and am doing what I can to get it rectified.


:jump::applause: :jump: :applause: :jump: :applause: :jump: :applause: :jump:

:icon29: :icon29:


KH :ernae:

[Rami]

Kelti,

Here is RAF Debden...pics and all.

[Wulf190]

So... ... ...when do I get my grubby hands on de-upgrades?

[Rami]

Wulf190,

Before I update the JHS_England package, I am waiting for North Weald. :wiggle:

[Rami]

Kelti,

I've gone through the files you sent me, and am ready to give them a shot in GSL. I noticed a couple of things, though. I went through and eliminated the "oiltank," and used the ones from Pen32Win. I also created separate layouts for the ships and vehicles, so they won't be brought into the GSL.

However, for public release, I noticed that you used an item called "beambrrd." This railroad bridge actually stems from FoxFour Korea, so those may have to be removed if you wanted to release the package publicly.

Other than that, these look outstanding, a real improvement! :salute:

[Captain Kurt]

I'm looking forward to it guys, thanks.

[Rami]

Kelti,

I sending you an e-mail tonight about your mods, I have a package ready for you in case you want to upload these new modifications publicly. :wiggle:

[kelticheart]

Kelti,

I've gone through the files you sent me, and am ready to give them a shot in GSL. I noticed a couple of things, though. I went through and eliminated the "oiltank," and used the ones from Pen32Win. I also created separate layouts for the ships and vehicles, so they won't be brought into the GSL.

However, for public release, I noticed that you used an item called "beambrrd." This railroad bridge actually stems from FoxFour Korea, so those may have to be removed if you wanted to release the package publicly.

Other than that, these look outstanding, a real improvement! :salute:


Heck, that's why I went beserk trying to figure out where those bridge objects came from! Thank you for pointing that out!

At first, I thought they were part of Canion's lib 1 & 2 because of their name, but then I couldn't find them in his zip files and anywhere else. The reason being the self-installing (which I truly despise, when I encounter one!) executables the entire Fox Four Korean theatre is made of. Those programs go in and place whatever they want, without leaving a trace for a possible need to backtrack later on. Burns' self-installing BoB was another one that screwed all of my SdC's shores and rivers for years with its built-in Euro watermasks, without me understanding why!

Oh, boy, I'll have to go thorugh all of them again to replace that nice small rr bridge, if I want to upload! And take the vehicles out....... I forgot that for mission purposes anything but the buildings must be left out. I added them in because I use CFS2 a lot as a regular flight sim for fun flights, other than just combat.

So, please, hold on to, actually dump, everything I sent you. Every other scenery is significantly changed since I sent them to you for evaluation. That went on after Kdriver pointed out RAF buried their fuel tanks underground and that Ian Elliot's FS9 RAF scenery collection is extremely accurate in terms of location and buildings array, albeit non-GSL. I am using both Ian's sceneries and, slowly collected, whatever aerial pictures I can find as guidelines for the update.

Kdriver was kind enough to send me the complete collection of Cees Donker's RAF buildings, which is astonishingly beautiful but needs a lot of work, since hardly any object there is destroyable with a dp file, therefore they are all non-GSL.
But Kdriver was able to isolate out of the cumulative bgl file two very nice objects: a RAF armoury building and the underground tank. I provided them with renamed dps of similar objects, isolated the three texture files covering them and now underground petrol tanks have replaced all of above ground oil installations in British airports. I left them only in the rest of European sceneries.

I am going to send you new GSLs and layouts with CD's buried tanks and armoury, as soon as I clean out all of the above......:frown:

Since I started updating those sceneries, I changed them already six or seven times! It keeps me out of troubles......:running:

Cheers!
KH :ernae:

[Rami]

Stef,

I hate to tell you this, because I know you won't see this until tomorrow. I didn't install your GSL files, I used the layouts, and looked through them, making the adjustments as I went. I already removed the vehicles, and created separate layouts for them, and removed the railroad bridges from the layouts. I then made everything else into GSL, and created new GSL files for the Canion, Gary Burns, 2TAF, and JHS airfields you have done so far.

I downloaded the original packages from last year and added these new files to them, so there's no need to knock yourself out over this. There's also no need to throw anything away or start over.

[kelticheart]

Stef,

I hate to tell you this, because I know you won't see this until tomorrow. I didn't install your GSL files, I used the layouts, and looked through them, making the adjustments as I went. I already removed the vehicles, and created separate layouts for them, and removed the railroad bridges from the layouts. I then made everything else into GSL, and created new GSL files for the Canion, Gary Burns, 2TAF, and JHS airfields you have done so far.

I downloaded the original packages from last year and added these new files to them, so there's no need to knock yourself out over this. There's also no need to throw anything away or start over.

Please, Rami, do scrap the old stuff, including the last I sent you because I am reviewing everything I did, since it relied a bit too much on sheer fantasy. I am replacing every layout I made.

I know it's impossible making ETO airports look exactly as they were, but I want to get close to it, at least in England, which seems to be the best documented area. I already produced two sets of the BoB collection, with and without vehicles and all of the Fox4's bridges are being replaced with Wolfi's and Canion's structures. I simply hate seeing those roads, railroads and rivers overlapping each other from the cockpit, they make CFS2 look like a comic book! I will not do all of them, just the ones near the airports.

Kdriver just sent me comments on the last things I did and I have already to correct some details of what I was to send you today to replace what I did since May 30th. Besides, he's trying to provide me with more RAF objects, very faithful to the real ones. I keep also learning new ways of doing scenery work with MB!

It'll be some time before I'll be able to upload anything for the community!

Cheers!
KH :ernae: