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RFields
September 26th, 2008, 17:49
If anyone remembers their times / has the Duenna - please post just the leg times.

Thanks,

Reggie
----------------------

FSX
FSX Default Maule
EGPA-EGED - 00:10:35
EGED-EGEW - 00:08:05
EGEW-EGEP - 00:02:18
EGEP-EGEN - 00:10:39
EGEN-EGES - 00:05:14
EGES-EGER - 00:04:01
EGER-EGPA - 00:07:57
Total Flight Time - 00:48:49

RFields
September 26th, 2008, 17:55
Rules in case anyone didn't get them - note thought I encourage you to use real world time - that is no longer a requirement.
-----------------------------

While we are finalizing a good RTW practice event - here is something to keep you busy. You need to finish before Oct 8.

This is pretty simple - easily completed in less than 2 hours. You are not required to complete all the flights on the same day/ FS session - but if you find good weather - you might want to do them all.

An out and back trip from one airport - with six stops at short field airports - all of these airports actually have commercial service. This trip includes the world's shortest commercial flight - the flight distance which varies from about 8,000 feet to 1.7 miles based on weather and landing runways. The listed flight time is 2 minutes.

This flight plan combines two commercial routes and the total straight line distance is about 70 nm.

Duenna verification, Around the World Race realism and real world weather required. Choose your aircraft wisely - only one (1) aircraft is allowed for all seven legs. This might be a route where a helicopter could actually be competitive / win.

Total flight time is winning criteria.

You may enter more than one flight - but it must be in a second aircraft.

You must report crashes - 10 minute penalty for any crash - and refly the leg. Optionally - you may report abandoning the flight series, and start over - but the aircraft you used for the crash flight can no longer be used.

I mentioned short field - the longest runways of the six airports are less 1,850 feet long (FS2004 - 1,700 ft FSX) .

The route is - EGPA-EGED-EGEW-EGEP-EGEN-EGES-EGER-EGPA

EGPA-EGED - 15 nm
EGED-EGEW - 11 nm
EGEW-EGEP - 2 nm
EGEP-EGEN - 14 nm
EGEN-EGES - 8 nm
EGES-EGER - 6 nm
EGER-EGPA - 15 nm

Either FS2004 or FSX may be used - there is some minor variation between the airports between the version. You are strongly urged to check out the airports before making your official flight attempt.

FS2004 Default Airport Data

EGED - Eday - Rwy 18/36 - 1,620 ft x 98 ft grass / Rwy 7/25 - 1,072x59 asphalt -- field elevation 20 ft

EGEW - Westray - Rwy 13/31 - 1,659 ft x 59 grass / Rwy 9/27 - 1,590x59 asphalt / Rwy 1/19 - 1,188x59 -- field elevation 29 ft

EGEP - Papa Westray - Rwy 4/22 - 1,616 ft x 59 grass / Rwy 18/36 - 1,156x59 grass / Rwy 7/25 - 1,096x59 grass -- field elevation 91 ft

EGEN - North Ronaldsay - Rwy 10/28 - 1,837 ft x 40 grass / Rwy 14/32 - 1,234x40 - grass / Rwy 3/21 - 1,083x40 grass -- field elevation 40 ft

EGES - Sanday - Rwy 11/29 - 1,791 ft x 98 grass / Rwy 3/21 - 1,509x59 asphalt / Rwy 17/35 - 1,303x98 grass -- field elevation 66 ft

EGER - Stronsay - Rwy 2/20 - 1,686 ft x 59 asphalt -- field elevation 39 ft

EGPA - Kirkwall - Rwy 9/27 - 4,730 ft x 151 asphalt / Rwy - 6/24 3,852x151 asphalt / Rwy 15/33 - 2,201x59 asphalt -- field elevation 51 ft


FSX Default Airport Data

EGED - Eday - Rwy 18/36 - 1,695 ft x 98 ft grass / Rwy 7/25 - 1,528x59 asphalt -- field elevation 20 ft

EGEW - Westray - Rwy 9/27 - 1,590 FT x 59 asphalt / Rwy 13/31 - 1,379x59 grass / Rwy 1/19 - 1,188x59 -- field elevation 29 ft

EGEP - Papa Westray - Rwy 4/22 - 1,616 ft x 59 grass / Rwy 18/36 - 1,156x59 grass / Rwy 7/25 - 1,096x59 grass -- field elevation 91 ft

EGEN - North Ronaldsay - Rwy 10/28 - 1,605 ft x 59 asphalt / Rwy 3/21 - 1,1132x59 grass / Rwy 14/32 - 1,121x98 - grass -- field elevation 40 ft

EGES - Sanday - Rwy 3/21 - 1,509 ft x 59 asphalt / Rwy 11/29 - 1,394x98 grass / Rwy 17/35 - 1,303x98 grass -- field elevation 66 ft

EGER - Stronsay - Rwy 2/20 - 1,686 ft x 59 asphalt / Rwy 6/24 1,346x96 grass / Rwy 10/28 1,322x59 grass -- field elevation 39 ft

EGPA - Kirkwall - Rwy 9/27 - 4,727 ft x 151 asphalt / Rwy 15/33 - 2,201x59 / Rwy 6/24 closed -- field elevation 58 ft

PRB
September 26th, 2008, 18:09
Here's my txt files and the screen shot of the Excel spreadsheet I used.

[EDIT]: Flight times only:

1. EGPA-EGED 8:15
2. EGED-EGEW 6:24
3. EGEW-EGEP 1:33
4. EGEP-EGEN 7:57
5. EGEN-EGES 5:23
6. EGES-EGER 4:34
7. EGER-EGPA 8:47

Total 42.88

RFields
September 26th, 2008, 18:29
Don't bother with attachments yet while they are working on the database. I'll have info on how to get them available Saturday.

buzzbee
September 27th, 2008, 08:46
Giving it a go in the Bearcat.

Flyin Bull
September 28th, 2008, 04:32
Gave it a whirl in the speed bug.

1. EGPA-EGED 4:37
2. EGED-EGEW 3:52
3. EGEW-EGEP 0:56
4. EGEP-EGEN 3:57
5. EGEN-EGES 2:54
6. EGES-EGER 2:10
7. EGER-EGPA 4:06
Total = 22:32

fliger747
October 4th, 2008, 17:21
Giving a whirl in the completely illegal P-3 Orion....

Lotsa fun in the 28 knot winds.....

EGPA-EGED 4+26 baton time.

Stuff later: T.

fliger747
October 4th, 2008, 17:38
EGED- EGEW Totally Illegal p-3 Orion

Baton time 3+22

Turns about like the Titanic.... But otherwise goes like the proverbial Australian Fruit Bat.

fliger747
October 4th, 2008, 17:41
May wait for the winds to calm or change direction before the next leg, reaquires too big a pattern.

T.

fliger747
October 4th, 2008, 21:12
Being night there now, the winds have calmed, much better!

EGEW-EGEP 1+00
EGEP-EGEN 3+28
EGEN-EGES 2+51
EGES-EGER 2+15
EGER-EGPA 3+42

I come up with (subject to error) a total of 21 +04 baton time.

As noted by conventional rules this is an illegal aircraft and was run only for comparison purposes. It accelerates well, has a good low alt speed and slows fairly well. The reverse thrust helps with the short fields. It does not manuver well if such manuvering is required. Some downwind takeoffs (full flaps) and dwnd landings were utilized.

The Russian PE-3 might work well as the dive brakes allow very rapid decceleration on short final. Be interesting to see how well the beercat works out. It accelerates very well!!

I expect that such an entry is not even slightly within the original specification that was in mind.

More later: T.

fliger747
October 4th, 2008, 22:10
I'll try this in my true steed, the F4U5-N

First leg, EGPA-EGED 4+09 baton time.

A little improvement!

T.

fliger747
October 4th, 2008, 22:30
EGED-EGEW F4U5N
3+32. A little slower as I lost some time having to manuver out of the wind to get the Duenna to drop the baton.

fliger747
October 4th, 2008, 22:48
EGEW-EGEP F4U5N 1+20 Took longer to get stopped than to get there!

Total so far: 9+03

T.

fliger747
October 5th, 2008, 10:41
Phinished de Round in the Phabloulous Black Demon:


EGEP-EGEN 3+49
EGEN-EGES 2+33
EGES-EGER 2+16
EGER-EGPA 3+44

With these short legs min fuel and use of water injection markedly add to the acceleration. After I learned to turn off the ADI on final, and unlock the tailwheel on rollout, decelleration after touchdown was much better. Lost some seconds there!

T.

fliger747
October 5th, 2008, 10:44
Total so far(subject to error)....

21+15

I think this could be beat (perhaps) with the Beercat. Certainly I could have beat the P-3 time easily if not for the aformentioned issue with leaving the water injection on and not unlockng the TW.

T.

buzzbee
October 5th, 2008, 11:50
My results in the Bearcat

EGPA-EGED - 15 nm 0:04:29
EGED-EGEW - 11 nm 0:03:57
EGEW-EGEP - 2 nm 0:02:10
EGEP-EGEN - 14 nm 0:04:44
EGEN-EGES - 8 nm 0:04:50
EGES-EGER - 6 nm 0:03:13
EGER-EGPA - 15 nm 0:04:43
0:28:06

2 Crashes +20 minutes = Total 48:06 D'oh!

EasyEd
October 5th, 2008, 14:59
Hey All,

Here are my times for each leg (EG omitted).

PA-ED 4:32
ED-EW 3:44
EW-EP 1:00
EP-EN 4:09
EN-ES 2:42
ES-ER 2:07
ER-PA 4:04

Total 22:18 baton time

Only had one mishap - collapsed nose gear landing at EGES as I landed a bit short and must have been too hard on the gear. No crash registered though.

What I learned:

1) Use the correct version of duenna! I started out using an old one instead of the new (2008) one that doesn't start timing you till you pass like 50kts. Makes a BIG difference!

2) I don't know my plane as well as I thought. At first I cut power 5 miles out and had to add power to get to the runway - then 4 and by the last leg 3 and even at 3 miles out I had to add power to get to the runway. I'm thinking 2 miles out might work. I know it cost me time - I'm guessing over a minute maybe two.

3) I don't know my plane as well as I thought - part 2. I don't know the relationship between overspeed and altitude (I flew at 1200 ft). First I stayed below the barber pole. Finally 35 kts over the barberpole and no overspeed - still don't know what the limit is. I know this cost me time as well.

4) The big Cheyenne 400LS is a good plane for this - reversing those twin Garrett turboprops really stops you well. I was stopping in under half of the landing strip distance most of the time while landing at over 100kts.

5) I would be really curious to see what an Epic LT would do. I assume it would stop you fast as well as maybe have a slightly higher max speed.

Good event - something I think we should practice. What if the RTW committee put in an RTW start or end event that did this for say 30 legs!

-Ed-

PRB
October 5th, 2008, 15:02
Good stuff, Ed! That time is up there with those war bird drivers! My DHC-6 trip took twice that long to complete!

srgalahad
October 6th, 2008, 08:37
Nice Ed! I too needed some refreshers on the plane ( 3 legs before I remembered the Turbo Commander has spoilers:redf: ) but I was right up your tail...

Rob

fliger747
October 6th, 2008, 09:13
Always a new scenario. I had never landed with WEP on before because of the length of the leg. It took 20 extra seconds to stop than with the P-3! Things worked out much better after I figured that out.

Good job guys! T.

Dangerousdave26
October 6th, 2008, 10:07
As always I am backing up the rear...

I am going to look over the rules and get in the saddle tomorrow night. I may spend some time testing tonight.

srgalahad
October 6th, 2008, 12:52
Better hurry Dave.. you only have a couple of days. Don't worry if you miss the deadline 'cause I have another one in the wings... will start Oct 8th and run til Oct 14
-- Rules and route to be posted Tuesday --

Rob

Dangerousdave26
October 6th, 2008, 13:00
Better hurry Dave.. you only have a couple of days. Don't worry if you miss the deadline 'cause I have another one in the wings... will start Oct 8th and run til Oct 14
-- Rules and route to be posted Tuesday --

Rob

Well crap you are really beating my schedule all to :censored: now I have to fit another one in. :icon_lol:

Testing going well I have concluded I can find the ground with out any problems what so ever....

Now if the landing strip were only there. :d

Vicious
October 7th, 2008, 00:00
First 4 legs in the PC-21. It's HOT!!!

Vicious

Vicious
October 7th, 2008, 00:05
Final 3 legs in PC-21.

Baton Times

EGPA-EGED 3:39
EGED-EGEW 3:14
EGEW-EGEP 1:01
EGEP-EGEN 3:37
EGEN-EGES 2:42
EGES-EGER 2:15
EGER-EGPA 3:52

Total = 20:20

This was fun!
Vicious

Dangerousdave26
October 7th, 2008, 05:29
Nice run Vicious but your aircraft is not a legal aircraft for the RTWR race for two reasons. One it is a prototype which automatically disqualifies it from the race (RTWR). see rule quote below. Two it is a Pilatus PC-21 and was not legal in 2007 and 2008 it may actually be legal if they finally have 10 examples in service. I looked over the rules as Reggie reposted them but I could not find anything about Aircraft eligibility for this race. I thought it was posted in the forums prior to the crash that aircraft had to meet the RTWR rules requirements so if I am wrong someone can feel free to correct me.

BTW this is just practice Rules Digestion for the race. :d



AIRCRAFT TYPES NOT ELIGIBLE IN 2007

The F2G (Goodyear's last version of the F4U Corsair).
Ten were put in service, but those were in testing at Patuxent NAS and found deficient in handling--and decommissioned within two years. Its fame lies in low-level circuit racing.)

Fw 190-D11 and Ta 152C.
The D-11 is labeled as a prototype by Shockwave in their documentation. Apparently 7-13 were built (Shockwave says 7) but we don't know much for sure here--this being a late-war on-the-fly aircraft. The TA 152C is a prototype. (The Fw 190-D9, Fw 190-D13, and the Ta 152H are fine.)

Pilatus PC-21
There are not yet 10 examples in active service.



iii. Aircraft Requirements.

a) General.


Aircraft must meet all of the following requirements to be eligible for use in the race.






They must be either:

Piston-powered fixed-wing aircraft.
Turboprop-powered, fixed-wing aircraft of two engines or fewer.
Rotorcraft.
In addition at least 10 real-life flying examples of the model, type, and specific version of the simulated aircraft must have been produced and put into service.

Finally, the flight simulator model must have been designed for use in FS2002, FS2004 or FSX, and have been openly available to the general public, either as a commercial product or as freeware, at least two weeks before the race.

Vicious
October 7th, 2008, 06:07
Hi Dave,

The PC-21 now has at least a dozen aircraft in service according to sources I found on the web (http://www.mindef.gov.sg/imindef/news_and_events/nr/2008/jul/13jul08_nr.html) so I felt it was now an eligible aircraft. I guess we should clarify it before the real race however.

Vicious

jkcook28
October 7th, 2008, 06:15
Putting on my RTWR Rules Hat

...fricking lawyers! :costumes:

Dangerousdave26
October 7th, 2008, 06:25
Hi Dave,

The PC-21 now has at least a dozen aircraft in service according to sources I found on the web (http://www.mindef.gov.sg/imindef/news_and_events/nr/2008/jul/13jul08_nr.html) so I felt it was now an eligible aircraft. I guess we should clarify it before the real race however.

Vicious

Yep I did not look but I knew it would be close. We had a discussion last year on if they had enough units in service then I think Ed wanted to use it on a leg somewhere. It is a good idea to never fly aircraft in the race that have "Experimental", "Prototype" or "Concept" in the name. That is a red Flag and will get the leg disqualified even if the reason is it is a rePaint that is experimental, prototype, or concept. Willy was adament about that in the last practice session and clearly defined it as a NO NO :173go1: :a1089:

Otherwise if it were legal I would be flying the XP-38N created by P-38 Wizard dcc :icon_lol:

Dangerousdave26
October 7th, 2008, 06:26
...fricking lawyers! :costumes:

Thanks from the Law Firm of SRG, DD26, & SCRWU :costumes:

Dangerousdave26
October 7th, 2008, 07:14
Here are the Duenna files for the first 4 legs. I found time to do them this morning. looks like I will do the other 3 tonight in the dark.

EGPA-EGED 4:41
EGED-EGEW 3:46
EGEW-EGEP 0:52
EGEP-EGEN 4:37
EGEN-EGES not complete
EGES-EGER not complete
EGER-EGPA not complete

Aircraft of choice was Rockwell Turbo Commander

I messed up on the first leg and forgot to put the gear up. :icon_lol: I noticed it when it was too late so I left it down the whole way.

fliger747
October 7th, 2008, 10:13
In the last RTW I think I had to fly the Extra, which had "experimental" on the side....

Dangerousdave26
October 7th, 2008, 14:22
And the last three

I proved I can not do it at night. Had to switch to day. I landed at EGES rather abruptly we can say. :icon_lol: {read crashed}

EGEN-EGES 3:34
EGES-EGER 2:36
EGER-EGPA 4:41

Total 24:47

+ 10 minute penalty

Total 34:47

srgalahad
October 7th, 2008, 14:30
In the last RTW I think I had to fly the Extra, which had "experimental" on the side....

Too true Tom... but every Extra is "experimental" thanks to the FAA (and there are a lot more then 10 examples flying) but it was forced on us by the "Default Aircraft" component of the race. Just for the heck of it I did a 'forerunner' flight in the RTW inverted (mostly with my eyes closed, I think).

**Editorial comment inserted: I hope this year we can reduce or rationalize the Deadly Defaults a bit since I think we've moved well past a bare-bones setup for most RTW racers -- bonus points IF you fly one, but few or no mandatory flights.**:a1451:

Rob

Vicious
October 7th, 2008, 20:40
So is the verdict that the PC-21 is not legal because it was in prototype colors? I didn’t think that would be a problem. I flew that scheme since I’m partial to black, as you can tell from my user pic. :icon_lol:

Vicious

srgalahad
October 8th, 2008, 05:03
So is the verdict that the PC-21 is not legal because it was in prototype colors? I didn’t think that would be a problem. I flew that scheme since I’m partial to black, as you can tell from my user pic. :icon_lol:

Vicious

More like:
the PC-21 WAS NOT legal for the 2008 RTW due to the lack of units produced and operated. WILL it be legal for 2009??? Quien sabe?
If there are 10 or more AND the performance is within real-world specs it should become 'legal' but that won't be known til around the new year when the work-up for RTW'09 gets into details.

As far as this exercise is concerned, the final judgement comes from Reggie but look at it as a good learning experience in the format and for the airplane. If it's an RTW option you'll be well prepared... that's what these exercises are here for.

Look at it this way:
For the Team, the keys are Planning, Organization, Pilots and Speed
For the pilots they are Practice, Organization, Preparation and Speed

Rob

Dangerousdave26
October 8th, 2008, 06:42
More like:
the PC-21 WAS NOT legal for the 2008 RTW due to the lack of units produced and operated. WILL it be legal for 2009??? Quien sabe?
If there are 10 or more AND the performance is within real-world specs it should become 'legal' but that won't be known til around the new year when the work-up for RTW'09 gets into details.

As far as this exercise is concerned, the final judgement comes from Reggie but look at it as a good learning experience in the format and for the airplane. If it's an RTW option you'll be well prepared... that's what these exercises are here for.

Look at it this way:
For the Team, the keys are Planning, Organization, Pilots and Speed
For the pilots they are Practice, Organization, Preparation and Speed

Rob

Very right but also look at the Duenna Section Enroute / Aircraft: [T1] PC-21 First Prototype.

To me this reads that the model is the First Prototype of the PC-21 which means it could never be RTWR (maybe legal this race) legal because a prototype is not a production model. Even if they made multiple prototypes it still would not be a production model.

As far as a repaint is concerned that would just be an error on the part of a repainter. Lets say I am repainting a completely legal P-51D/H by shockwave (less external tanks) in SOH Race Colors but I name the title in the Aircraft Config "P-51 SOH RTWR Paint Prototype" because it is my prototype of the paint. This would cause confusion to other teams who may assume I am flying a illegal version of the P-51. Now the judges would possibly recognize by the airfile used that it is legal aircraft but it could cause a delay or a penalty during the race. At the very least I would expect a delay as we wait for a ruling from the committee.

These are just things to watch out for.