NASCAR what IS the answer?

[Daveroo]

myself?..im a fan,,i enjoy it,no i dont like the crashes,i didnt like crashing myself when i drove,cost me alot of money and sometimes it hurt,nascar trys to make it safer,and people complain its to "vanila"..the cars are to much alike..to equal,if they did go back to "run what ya brung" theyre would be fights between the owners ( as there was),and between drivers....and the fans would complain when "thier brand" wasnt on top...so theyve done what theyve done..things are equal,racing is "fair",guys push the envilope and get caught,and get chastized,and then we tell those same guys to push the limits as best you can...to me thats like giving a monkey a banana and then telling him he cant eat it or he will get punished....

fridays arca race they went for it right off and wrecked all day..theyre rules arent the same...saturday nationwide waited about halfway and then comenced wreckin...and todays race...the rode for 75% of the laps..and then "raced"...and crashed...

BUT.....tony said...nascars going to wreck this whole damned field...now heres my but...the first BIG one...amerola admited that he looked down to switch his fuel valve,looked up and was in the middle of a crash...opps....then AJ...admited he was going to block hamlin...but..he blamed hamlin for trying to pass...WTH??....



i didnt see it today..but alot of times..fatige gets them..but that said..these guys are also in excelent shape compaired to the guys in the 50s...oh well

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

First - What is the problem?

43 restrictor plate engined cars on a 2.5 mile track in which speeds are basically not allowed to exceed 200mph for insurance and safety reasons coupled with typically tight points races for the top 12 guarantees tight exciting races. Every driver knows that 4 out of 36 races (11%) are wildcard anything can happen races. Every driver knows that when the racing is that tight at that speed people are going to make mistakes sometimes themselves. The issue of tearing up cars is just a fact in racing - yes some owners are financially hurt by it others aren't - welcome to reality.

For me the best things about this race were:

1) Dodge and the Kes won! That is two races this year - hopefully they win at least 6. Roger needs to have his nose rubbed in his foolish decision to leave Dodge. If Brad can win the title - and I'm pulling for him - Roger will really look foolish. To put it simply Roger's problem has always been his choice of drivers - his real stock car drivers get him wins - the problem is not Dodge. The clear evidence today is AJ causing that last big wreck.

2) If you saw the interview with Kyle he said that Kes "is pretty smart" and in his interview Kes said the guy running 2nd should have the advantage but he spent time thinking - note thinking - about what he would do if he is in the lead at the end and this move - up then diving off 3 to separate himself and Kyle was his plan and it worked. Brains over brawn - the way it should be. Kyle couldn't think of it yesterday.

Carl messed up getting himself separated from the 16. Sometimes you have to drag the brake to go fast. Carl should have known that.

It is precisely the variety in tracks, cars, circumstances and driver skills needed that makes NASCAR so great.

-Ed-

PS Pretty cool that Ricky Bobby lead for a bit.

[Panther_99FS]

Go back to the rules before 1988.

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

Panther exactly how do the rules before 1988 guarantee speeds below 200mph?

Remember the single most important factor is safety which basically means speeds less than 200mph. Every driver and fan expects to be guaranteed safety or the lawsuits start and the insurance goes away.

-Ed-

[Panther_99FS]

EasyEd,
Specifically with Talledega, were it not for safer cars & safer barriers, I would debate that restrictor plates would have brought on more injuries & possibly deaths. Sure Bobby Allison flew threw the air & tore up the fencing - but there were no major injuries that day in fans nor the driver. This was in a car that is less safe than those today.

Were it not for today's safer cars, Eric McClure might not have walked away from his crash yesterday. Were it not for restrictor plates, McClure might not have even crashed in the first place.

[Panther_99FS]

Edit:
If I have to live with restrictor plate racing, then bring back the 2-groups...

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

Panther I assume you do realize that the biggest big one ever at Talledega (or in NASCAR history) was in 1973. They were doin around 195 mph running the 426s! :salute: that engine. And in case you didn't know that big one was the big one that ended Wendell Scott's racing career. Oh an Brad Keselowski's uncle was in that crash.

There is no upside to faster speeds.

1) When (not IF but WHEN) the big ones happen at higher speeds the consequences may well be way more severe since the fences likely won't hold the cars then. The risk is not worth it. Nobody is going to invest the money to redesign the tracks to handle higher speeds.

3) The most dangerous place on the track is the tri-oval - where are the crowds? Where is the start finish?

See the picture http://maps.seatics.com/talledaga_tn.gif

Also if you notice stands are strategically placed where the cars come off turns 2 and 4 as well.

2) When do big ones mostly happen? If you watch races they mostly happen on restarts when everyone is bunched up. That won't change. Letting the engines rip will not spread the cars out on a restart.

So once again how do pre-1988 rules keep the cars under 200mph?

-Ed-

[eddie]

Go back to the rules before 1988.

I don't know what the answer is for races at Talladega or Daytona, both the same size tracks and the plates added to the engines. but to say it was better before the rule changes in 1988, not so sure. Up until 1988, 15 drivers were killed at these tracks! How would that make it better?

Deaths at Daytona before 1988
2/13/1987 Joe Young Dash race
Feb. 1983*; 2/4/1987+ Bruce Jacobi Daytona 500 qualifier
12/15/1985*; 12/26/1985+ Charles Ogle Testing (stock car)
2/7/1985 Francis Affleck ARCA practice
2/14/1980 Ricky Knotts Daytona 500 qualifier
2/17/1972 Friday Hassler Daytona 500 qualifier
3/14/1971 Rusty Bradley Daytona 200
2/19/1970 Tallmadge Prince Daytona 500 qualifier
2/21/1969 Don MacTavish Sportsman 300
1/5/1965 Billy Wade Tire test (stock car)
2/21/1961 Harold Haberling Daytona 500 practice
6/18/1960 Martin Every Engineering test
2/11/1959 Marshall Teague Daytona 500 practice
Talladega
August 17, 1975 Tiny Lund Talladega 500
August 12, 1973 Larry Smith Talladega 500

[Panther_99FS]

Edit:
If I have to live with restrictor plate racing, then bring back the 2-groups...

To EasyEd & Eddie,
Before you go 'quick to fry me', suggest that you read my previous post above and you'll have your answers ;)
(Should read 2-car groups)

[Panther_99FS]

So once again how do pre-1988 rules keep the cars under 200mph?

-Ed-

Nowhere did I say to keep the cars under 200 mph ;)

[Panther_99FS]

I don't know what the answer is for races at Talladega or Daytona, both the same size tracks and the plates added to the engines.

Well,
At least I provided an answer. If it's wrong, so be it - which is why I stated that I prefer the 2-car group restrictor plate racing.

[Panther_99FS]

Summary:
Obviously the 200mph-ish barrier is here to stay. And in this respect, my preference is for the 2-car packs/groups.

Right or wrong, this is my preference - but then again, my preference is to also see North Wilkesboro & Rockingham back on the Cup schedule too.


And I've said what I've wanted to in this thread :mixedsmi:

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

Fair enuff.

I'd like to see those tracks back on the schedule as well as Kentucky.

The issue with two pack racing is that it was the result of racing not rules or technology. A disciplined group would get away from the undisciplined creating two packs. Now everyone is disciplined enough to stay one pack. I've no idea how you could make that happen.

-Ed-

[PRB]

Well, NASCAR has what may a unique problem in professional sports. They have to “listen to the fans”, as any sport does that has to make money on sponsors, TV ratings, and ticket sales. And in NASCAR it seems apparent that what the fans want, in order of priority is 1) fights, 2) crashes, and 3) good racing. This, not surprisingly, is not the same items the drivers place on a list of priorities. Drivers like the tracks at California, Michigan, and the current Bristol. Well, except for Harvick... If NASCAR ever figures out a way to break up the draft at Daytona and Talladega, there will be howls of protest from fans. NASCAR is always in the middle of a never ending “management of unintended consequences” when they make new rules. The plates were intended to slow the cars down, which they did, but nobody foresaw “the pack” resulting from the plates, and “the pack” is exciting racing, which is why NASCAR tweaked rules and cars to “bring the pack back”, after other tweaks, made for other reasons, resulted in the two-car tandem racing (unforeseen), which fans hate. Heck, the NASCAR press has been hyperventilating the past couple of weeks about the “problem” that cautions (crashes) are way down, and the press is a reflection of the fans, no? From NASCAR's point of view, there's no problem that needs fixing at the plate tracks. Not anymore. The pack is back...

On a related note (:icon_lol:) I like the plate races. Like EasyEd said, Keselowski did some great driving, and like Mike Waltrip a few years ago, managed to break the draft behind him to win. Remember that one? He went high and low, breaking up three lines of traffic all at the same time on the final lap. Good stuff. The two interviews with Kyle Busch and Brad K were great TV, with KB, first, suggesting that BK would be “pretty smart” if he did that on purpose, implying, of course, that nobody, especially BK, is that smart, followed by BK explaining exactly what he did and why, lolol. Oops...

[wombat666]

Frankly, the obsession with 'safety' has nothing to do with spectators and drivers health but everything about avoiding litigation and losing large amounts of money.
:173go1:
Motor racing is dangerous, as it should be, and it certainly sorts the men from the boys.

[stiz]

add a right hand turn every now and again? :monkies: :bump:

[Terry]

The answer to the super speedways is bulldoze the corner banking flat, then throw away the restictor plates. They will go like hell on the straight but will be forced to slow for the turns.

[eddie]

I love how Smoke answered these questions after the race_

On the race in general: "We didn't quite crash half the field which is what we normally look to do here. I was excited about it. I thought it was a pretty good race. I made it further than I thought I would before I got crashed. I call it a successful day."

On fuel mileage: “I'm not quite sure what the fuel issue was. The racing was awesome. It's fun to be able to race and have to watch the gauges at the same time. It makes us as drivers have to do so much more. Being able to make yourself run on the apron and everything else to try to get clean air, it makes it fun. I'm sorry we couldn't crash more cars today. We didn't fill the quota for today for Talladega and NASCAR."

On opening the grilles more to prevent overheating: "I think they need to close it down. Honestly, I think if we haven't crashed at least 50 percent of the field by the end of the race, we need to extend the race until we at least crash 50 percent of the cars because it's not fair to these fans for them to not see any more wrecks than that and more torn-up cars. We still had over half the cars running at the end and it shouldn't be that way."

On shortening the Talladega race: "I don't think it really matters. I think if you made it 20 laps we would all still crash with five to go or eight to go. If we did that we would be able to fill the time that the fans deserve. I mean they deserve to see us run 500 miles. Like I said if we don't crash half of the field by the end of the race they really need to extend it because that is what the fans want they want to see that excitement. I feel bad that as drivers we couldn't do a better job of crashing enough cars for them today ... I feel like that is what we are here for. I feel bad if I don't spend at least 150,000 dollars in torn-up race cars going back to the shop. We definitely have to do a better job with that."

On what the fans want: "Well, I don't know that is what they are looking for, but I feel like that is the show we deserve to give them. That is what has made Talladega, Talladega."

On the fun factor: "I had a blast. It would have been a lot more fun if I could have gotten caught up in one more wreck. If I could have done that it would have been perfect."

On whether he prefers pack-style racing to tandem drafting: "I think we ought to make it a figure eight. I mean if we could make it a figure-eight it would be perfect. It would absolutely be perfect here. It would be better than what we have. That is going to be my vote next week is that we make it a figure eight and/or we can stop at the halfway (point), make a break and turn around and go backwards the rest of the way. Then with 10 to go we split the field in half and half go the regular direction and half of them go backwards."
:icon_lol::icon_lol:

[redriver6]

LoL..that is classic:icon_lol:

i've seen it referred to as a 'rant'....far from it...he sounded as calm as could be:icon_lol:

here is the audio....

http://chirb.it/3MK2II

[stiz]

thats brilliant :icon_lol: :icon_lol:

[Thoe6969]

I love what Tony had to say.In order to fix nascar they have to get rid of the beer drinking rednecks in the stands which they could do if they would stop making rules just to make them happy.There are a lot of real race fans out there that don.t want to see a bunch of tore up race cars and a caution light every ten minutes just to bunch the cars up.

[Victory103]

I love what Tony had to say.In order to fix nascar they have to get rid of the beer drinking rednecks in the stands which they could do if they would stop making rules just to make them happy.There are a lot of real race fans out there that don.t want to see a bunch of tore up race cars and a caution light every ten minutes just to bunch the cars up.

+1 on Smoke's comments and sarcasm, which is why I watch the 2 road courses and focus on other 2 and 4 wheel racing series throughout the season. If there is nothing on and it's raining outside, I'll watch the opening ceremonies to see what squadron does the fly over and then turn it on again at <10 laps to go! With that, I did have a great time actually being at both Daytona and Talladega races a few years ago, not for what was on the track but the whole atmosphere and watching all the girls with "#8" t-shirts!