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expat
October 3rd, 2008, 01:17
I at least have been getting en Error - 404 message all week. Anyone else know what's going on over there?

michael davies
October 3rd, 2008, 01:47
I at least have been getting en Error - 404 message all week. Anyone else know what's going on over there?

There is a server technical hosting problem, I was told three options were possible, no more forums, forums back but severely curtailed ( ie customer issues only ) or normal service resumed. Other than that I know no more.

I do know there are more models soon to be released so it will be interesting to see how they impart that message as and when they arrive, my gut is they will rely on the main shop news page.

Personally, the technical issue has been too long IMHO, they don't seem to be in a rush to sort, or move the site, my initial thoughts were toward a cut back forum, but the no forum option seems to be winning the polls right now, they are an overhead, they do generate a lot of workload in policing etc, maybe their trying a period with out them to see if it helps work flow ?.

Until Alphasim officially say whats going on then we'll all have to keep guessing, that in its self is probably more damaging than any bad news they could give IMHO.

Best

Michael

Mickey D
October 3rd, 2008, 02:28
but the no forum option seems to be winning the polls right now

I tend to go along with that theory Michael. It's no secret that Phil did not like the forums. They gave people a platform on which to air opinions and grievances. That conflicted with AS being a 'benign autocracy'. Not my words.
Problem is all those opinions and grievances will now be aired elsewhere (as they were before anyway).

The crash seems to have occurred on quite a few forums almost at the same time. All those others are back up again AFAIK but with loss of their databases.

michael davies
October 3rd, 2008, 04:21
I tend to go along with that theory Michael. It's no secret that Phil did not like the forums. They gave people a platform on which to air opinions and grievances. That conflicted with AS being a 'benign autocracy'. Not my words.
Problem is all those opinions and grievances will now be aired elsewhere (as they were before anyway).

The crash seems to have occurred on quite a few forums almost at the same time. All those others are back up again AFAIK but with loss of their databases.

Agreed, lets be clear, Alphasim didn't pull down their forums, they were pulled down elsewhere, having said that it might have just been the shove they needed to close them, psychologically its easier to accept a closure through no fault of your own, rather than a deliberate closure by your own hand.

I've always been a firm advocate that people will have their say, good or bad and that it is far better to have have that say in your own forum where you can police it and control it, maintain an open dialogue and hopefully resolve it, you cant do that in other peoples forums, we used to in the old days, here, Netwings and CBFS and it just ends up upsetting the clientèle in those forums, those were not happy days, hence the opening of the Alphasim forums. Seems the wheel turns full circle, good luck to them trying to resolve issues in other peoples forums, I suspect these days they'll get short shrift trying to do payware business in other freeware forums.

Despite what they think at headquarters, Alphasim needs at least one forum, painful or ugly as it can get, it is required, unless of course they're going all boxed in which case I suspect customer care will be handled by the publisher, I still think thats a viable option they might explore.

Best

Michael

ibl19108
October 3rd, 2008, 07:36
That begs the question as to what AS will do with their technical support forum. As all three forums Tech Support, screenies and upcoming projects and the usual chatroom. So nothing?

Derek

michael davies
October 3rd, 2008, 08:01
That begs the question as to what AS will do with their technical support forum. As all three forums Tech Support, screenies and upcoming projects and the usual chatroom. So nothing?

Derek

That, I am afraid to say is a very viable action, no more forums, tech support would be handled by the boxed CD vendors, Alphasim supply Flight1 and absolve all public relations elsewhere, in esscence Alphasim become contractors to Flight1.

From a business sense it certainly has appeal, it allows you to focus on doing the one thing that makes money, modeling, no overheads, no forums to police, no consumer backlash, no ARCs to deal with, just a contact to build X,Y,Z and ship to the publisher. There are down sides of course.

Lets be clear, this is not what 'is' going to happen, it is just speculation from the lack of information, Alphasim are in a state of flux, it will be interesting to see what comes out the other side.

Best

Michael

expat
October 3rd, 2008, 09:28
Interesting which would be the better business model for them. I am a loyal customer and frequent poster there. From a customer perspective, I would bet that the forum generates much more interest, knowledge, and enthusiasm leading to more sales than it deters potential sales. It certainly has for me. Hard to see the forums actually driving sales to competitors as much of their product is unique.

From a management point of view, I sympathize with Phil and his forum admin's - refereeing the occassional churlishness on the boards is a pain in the neck for them and distracting - but I doubt their bottom line profits really suffer materially from it. The inevitable "fallling out with a modeler who takes his toys elsewhere" can happen with or without a forum and the impact on business is probably the same.

michael davies
October 3rd, 2008, 09:51
Interesting which would be the better business model for them. I am a loyal customer and frequent poster there. From a customer perspective, I would bet that the forum generates much more interest, knowledge, and enthusiasm leading to more sales than it deters potential sales. It certainly has for me. Hard to see the forums actually driving sales to competitors as much of their product is unique.

From a management point of view, I sympathize with Phil and his forum admin's - refereeing the occassional churlishness on the boards is a pain in the neck for them and distracting - but I doubt their bottom line profits really suffer materially from it. The inevitable "fallling out with a modeler who takes his toys elsewhere" can happen with or without a forum and the impact on business is probably the same.

Hmm I'd like to clear one point up, developers withdrawing their toys has nothing to do with the forums, all the developers who left Alphasim did for other reasons not connected to forums, policing or posts there in, I'm fairly confident I speak honestly for all that I communicate with.

The use of forums is a double edged sword, if used and managed well then they are a bonus to the business, if managed badly then they are a royal pain in the backside. People fall into two camps, those that see the benefits and those that see the overheads, I fall into the former, Phil falls into the latter, it was my pushing eight years ago that brought the forums about, on the proviso that I managed and policed it, Phil would have no part of it, as CEO why should he ?. It worked fine for a good many years, in fact it worked very well. There were a lot of boards and it did take time to keep them in order, but suddenly they were all truncated to just three, no forewarning it was just done and thus I resigned my Alphasim title and the rest as they say is history ( boring at that LOL ).

Forums do hold a focus point for customers, present and prospective, though as I said before, some don't think so, said same people don't think reskins drive up business or a screen shot gallery, sadly this is incorrect, lots of people just screen grab, they take an inordinate amount of time to produce what can only be described as master pieces of pictorial art, it is only natural that they wish to publicly show their efforts.

To be honest, some of them need to be employed by payware vendors to sell their products, quite often these screen shot artists produce images far and above what the vendor produces.

In any other business the PR department would kill for good images of their product to promote their wares, if you think thats a folly then just watch TV for 1Hr and see how many adverts promoting wares are shown, publicity is big business and reaps dividends, often hidden.

Anyway I digress, I've no idea what Alphasim are going to do, I spoke to Phil and the reply was as given above, I think a good summation would be that Alphasim recognise the benefit of some sort of forum but are not comfortable with it, a necessary evil they must endure.

I think thats a fair and honest appraisal.

Best

Michael

Mickey D
October 3rd, 2008, 10:59
Hmm I'd like to clear one point up, developers withdrawing their toys has nothing to do with the forums, all the developers who left Alphasim did for other reasons not connected to forums, policing or posts there in, I'm fairly confident I speak honestly for all that I communicate with.

As one of the developers who has recently " withdrawn his toys" I'd like make it clear that it had nothing to do with the Forums. Team SDB decided to withdraw our scenery in response to the current Alphasim shift towards boxed products, civil aviation and the proposed reduction of the military side. Scenery in particular.
Added to that AS had recently indicated to Team SDB a further reduction of our catalogue would ensue. With no new military titles being accepted by AS we found the situation of diminishing returns unacceptable and WE took the decision to withdraw our products and seek pastures new.

There was no question of us " throwing the teddy out of the cot" as expat suggests.
I hope this puts the record straight.

tommieboy
October 3rd, 2008, 11:14
What's the advantage of "boxed" products vs a download?

Tommy

Mickey D
October 3rd, 2008, 12:19
What's the advantage of "boxed" products vs a download?

Tommy

Mainly a vastly bigger potential market but a smaller return per unit sale.
The downloads market represents less than 25% of the FS community. More punters buy in Walmart and PC World etc. than on the internet.

deathfromafar
October 3rd, 2008, 14:40
I remember a while back when Phil shut down a large section(s) of the forum and wrote a particularly abrasive rant(which was recorded before it was deleted) in the forum personally aimed at a few people and explaining that he had taken the position that too many of the team members(including him) were spending hours upon hours working the forum and away from building models. Phil originally intended to keep only the screenshots and tech support boards open so team members could spend more time building models and less dealing with the forums. There was backlash from both customers and team members that the move by Phil was "Draconian" as one team member put it. As I understand it from a couple of people involved, a couple of customers advocated the idea of using customer moderators to police the boards and reopen the café. Phil made a point that team members were not obliged to respond or converse on the boards if they should at some point reopen. In the end the customer moderators were put in place and everyone seemed happy with this arrangement but Phil reversed his position and he and other team members spent more hands on time in the forums than before. From my own observation and many other long time Alphasim customers, we all felt and discussed how there was a lot of unwarranted short temperedness coming from the staff and moderators at times. I know there were many boneheads(mostly younger immature types) who came there to stir up as much crap as they could who I had no problem with having them moderated out of the boards. On the other hand, many people who were asking valid questions on technical issues or being curious were getting their heads cut off. Also quite a few who wrote in the forums were not native English speakers who used translators to post there who came off as pesky and irritating at times who in reality were only dealing with a language barrier and this fact often went unrealized leading to some negative exchanges. Be it as it may, in a public forum hosted by a company where customers spend much time, it is wise policy to handle all maters with kid gloves and never a ball pin hammer. The latter will certainly end up having a negative impact on business if left unchecked. I have had cross discussions with many folks who I know whom are long term Alphasim customers as I and we all soundly agree that the forums were going to wrong direction and change was needed.

Some time ago, I suggested that maybe the best way to handle technical issues was to go to a private trouble ticket system and have a no-reply forum space specifically for posting fixes or updates. With other developers who use such a system, I have had 99% satisfaction in getting service on technical issues. Also, I support what Phil originally intended to have a screenshots only forum where people could show off their models in flight and show repaints and modifications. Hopefully there will be a move in the best direction on this and Alphasim and it’s long time and new customers will be able to share a positive space to interact. Whatever happens on the matter, I still look forward with interest in upcoming new models from Alphasim and I admire Phil and his team members both present and past for their skills in this realm of artistry. They have certainly pushed the envelope for Flightsim.

DFA

WarHorse47
October 3rd, 2008, 15:28
Wow. Thanks for the updates and insight. As a frequent AS customer, I've learned to hold my tongue and keep my opinions to myself less I irritate someone unintentionally. Hope this gets resolved. :jump:

--WH

michael davies
October 3rd, 2008, 22:49
Wow. Thanks for the updates and insight. As a frequent AS customer, I've learned to hold my tongue and keep my opinions to myself less I irritate someone unintentionally. Hope this gets resolved. :jump:

--WH

You have no issues from me, be rest assured :ernae:

Best

Michael

deathfromafar
October 3rd, 2008, 23:03
Michael, I can speak for many of us when I say I am grateful for your candor and patience discussing many matters here and over at Alphasim not to mention all the hard and excellent works you have turned out for the community.
:applause::medals:

Mickey D
October 4th, 2008, 00:40
I think the current message when clicking on 'Forums' speaks volumes.

deathfromafar
October 4th, 2008, 00:59
Hmmmm this is interesting:

Multiple Choices

The document name you requested (/forums/index.php) could not be found on this server. However, we found documents with names similar to the one you requested.Available documents:


/forums/index.html (http://www.alphasim3.com/forums/index.html) (common basename)

Please consider informing the owner of the referring page (http://www.alphasim.co.uk/index2.html) about the broken link.

and:


SORRY- The AlphaSim forums are currently offline.
For support please email alphasim1@alphasim.co.uk

hinch
October 4th, 2008, 04:00
So they have been removed rather than attempting a fix, it's a shame.

The news of a turbo mentor is good though! Maybe this gives AS an oppurtunity to update their site, a previews page would be nice.

S
October 4th, 2008, 04:19
It's odd not being able to go to their forums. Wouldn't be fun if they never returned. Reading the info about the Turbom Mentor on the main page just feels cold if you compare it to a thread on the forum where people comment on it.

Fingers crossed here.

Helldiver
October 4th, 2008, 05:07
Theres no sense in my covering my problems with Phil.
I just don't understand why he would turn his back to someone that has bought $250 worth of planes without explanation.Without knowing no better, I would say he is a poor businessman.

FlyTexas
October 4th, 2008, 06:17
Michael, I can speak for many of us when I say I am grateful for your candor and patience discussing many matters here and over at Alphasim not to mention all the hard and excellent works you have turned out for the community.
:applause::medals:

Hear, hear. :applause:

Brian

Panther_99FS
October 4th, 2008, 09:48
My personal opinion is that the forums won't be back...

But opinions aren't fact...

Blackbird686
October 4th, 2008, 10:07
As a frequent AS customer, I've learned to hold my tongue and keep my opinions to myself less I irritate someone unintentionally. Hope this gets resolved. :jump:

--WH

You are not alone, WarHorse -- I too have the uncanny ability to irritate even the most seasoned blokes with the toughest hides... and it is totally unintentional. Suffice to say, I am a staunch, loyal AlphaSim customer and (for the most part) ally who would speak up on their behalf. Phil and the rest of the AlphaSim team have always treated me right, and yes... there have been some differences between us. I would hate to see AlphaSim change their sales venue or worse, go away altogether. I hope some agreement can be reached... as much as anyone here. :engel016:

Cheers -- BB686:USA-flag:

Lightning
October 4th, 2008, 14:28
Not looking like it's coming back.
Get this message now.



SORRY- The AlphaSim forums are currently offline.
For support please email alphasim1@alphasim.co.uk

S
October 5th, 2008, 05:12
Well that doesn't say anything to be honest. It only looks like it is offline! :icon_lol:

Maybe they are working on a new improved forum setup in between their daily busness of fighting polygons and throwing paint at the results of that.

Maybe it will never be back. We'll see I guess.

WarHorse47
October 5th, 2008, 06:57
Theres no sense in my covering my problems with Phil.
I just don't understand why he would turn his back to someone that has bought $250 worth of planes without explanation.Without knowing no better, I would say he is a poor businessman.At this point, Helldiver, I tend to agree.

Since the forum went down, I feel like I'm having withdrawl symptoms or something. I spent a lot of time there reading other posts to find out the issues and solutions to their products, what repaints are in the works, and learn from the team what it takes to produce the aircraft. I also shared a lot of screenshots and chatted with other AS customers. Granted, there were some unnecessary posts from some jerk who wanted to argue with Phil, but for the most part the forum was fun and informative.

What irritates me the most is the lack of explaination from AS. I see no posts from Phil or any of the team (other than Michael's posts) anywhere that explains what really happened to the forum, their future plans for a forum, or how they intend to deal with future customer support (other than sending them a direct e-mail).

As long as the silence continues, I will fly my current AS products but it's unlikely I will return to buy any more. In fact since their forum fell silent, I've already spent $60 on two payware products from another developer.

Sad, very sad.

--WH

Lateral-G
October 5th, 2008, 07:28
My observation in the several years I've been buying AS products and perusing the forums is that Phil's going to do whatever he wants to do and damn anyone else. I'm sure he has some overall plan and business model he's working to. While there are those that may not like it or have strong feelings about how his business should be run it won't make one whit of difference.

Of course discussion of AS products will increase on other FS forums with Phil not having ANY control of how those threads progress or digress (as the case may be). That may end up being an irritant to him but one he's going to be powerless in enforcement.

-G-

Islander
October 5th, 2008, 12:59
At this point, Helldiver, I tend to agree.

Since the forum went down, I feel like I'm having withdrawl symptoms or something. I spent a lot of time there reading other posts to find out the issues and solutions to their products, what repaints are in the works, and learn from the team what it takes to produce the aircraft. I also shared a lot of screenshots and chatted with other AS customers. Granted, there were some unnecessary posts from some jerk who wanted to argue with Phil, but for the most part the forum was fun and informative.

What irritates me the most is the lack of explaination from AS. I see no posts from Phil or any of the team (other than Michael's posts) anywhere that explains what really happened to the forum, their future plans for a forum, or how they intend to deal with future customer support (other than sending them a direct e-mail).



Agree entirely WarHorse... those forums provided a 'comfort zone' of research, knowledge and information for a lot of us- damned shame that they're gone at the moment, but far worse, in my view, if they're gone forever.

stiz
October 5th, 2008, 13:44
I agree with -G- that Phill will do what he wants and thats the end of it, however, i do think that if alphasim just took a little time to check everything twice over and release a lower detail but rock soild model with next to no bugs rather than a lower detail model which requieres several patchs to make it flyable, they would save themselfs a lot of grief.

Mickey D
October 5th, 2008, 14:36
The Alphasim public forum IMHO is gone. It won't come back. I hope I'm proved wrong. The only forum that probably remains is the private team forum and that too is doubtful. It nearly went a few years back but pressure from the then AS Team saved it albeit in a cut down form.

It's a great pity as all the issues will now be discussed elsewhere. How many will be content to wait for a reply via email? But of course if there's a switch to marketing boxed products through another publisher it won't matter.

There are still publishers around who do have forums where matters can be raised, and Skysim is one but there are others.
We all move on and I sincerely hope AS have chosen the right path after all the support and effort the old AS Team put in to place the company where it is now.

WarHorse47
October 5th, 2008, 15:25
Okay, lets turn this subject around. :isadizzy:

How many developers are there that do not have a public forum for posting questions, issues, pendng updates and the like? And if there are some, how sucessful are they in selling their products?

--WH

b52bob
October 5th, 2008, 19:52
Now posted to the website:

Announcement : Due to technical problems, both the forum and gallery are no longer accessible. The gallery will be re-instated as soon as practical, however after much consideration, we have decided not to re-instate the forum. We are confident that a leaner AlphaSim is the way forward and this increased efficiency will result in more and better models and scenery in the coming years.
We would also like to announce our partnership with the well-known FS publisher Flight One. Our B-24 and Hawker Hunter have already been released as boxed titles. A series of primarily civilian titles will also be released in the coming months, both on our site as well as through Flight one.
Finally, many will have noticed that the ageing airfield scenery has been removed. This was done at the request of the author. It is not known at present whether the scenery will be available anywhere else.

So be it. A mistake

Bob

Lightning
October 5th, 2008, 20:26
As we predicted. :kilroy:

WarHorse47
October 5th, 2008, 20:29
..and the beatings will continue until morale improves... :costumes:

--WH

NickB
October 5th, 2008, 21:06
Now posted to the website:

Announcement : we have decided not to re-instate the forum.


Oh well. I guess we all saw it coming. At least Phil will be a lot happier.

:toilet:


NickB

fsafranek
October 5th, 2008, 22:18
What irritates me the most is the lack of explaination from AS. I see no posts from Phil or any of the team (other than Michael's posts) anywhere that explains what really happened to the forum, their future plans for a forum, or how they intend to deal with future customer support (other than sending them a direct e-mail).

My reply here is of little consequence given the turn of events since Warhorse47's posting, but I just wanted to say that "the team" have been in the dark on this for the past week as well. Since we haven't had access to our team area of the forum either we've only been able to speculate at best ourselves.


..and the beatings will continue until morale improves... :costumes:


We wouldn't have it any other way.
:ernae:

strikehawk
October 5th, 2008, 22:52
I've held my tongue until AS made an announcement, but for what it's worth my 2 cents.

I doubt that I will buy another AS products as often as I did. Because I could follow progress of a particular plane on the forums I could plan for that purchase. I don't feel like looking at an announcement page that wont change for days on end.

Phil may have his reasons, I know that I posted a clarification to the SH-2's PDF and someone with his own agenda hijacked the thread. I had to ask that the thread be locked and that I in no way felt slighted by Phil's reply. It seemed that some members were just looking for any reason to pounce on a mistake. :censored: 'em, I hope they choke.

I will still buy AS products, but not within the first 24 hours of release like I used to.

deathfromafar
October 5th, 2008, 23:55
So be it, is for the better hindsight being 20/20. All the good out of it overshadowed by a lot of baseless verbal attacks, personal politics, contentious personalities, drive-by-posters, and various other things that aren't moral boosting qualities in a public forum. For the team, much of it a pain to oversee. Then you have people who just do all they can to rivet count and tear down the efforts made by the team in which as of late there was rarely a subjective attempt to point out a flaw or problem overlooked during build. I can understand why Phil was sick of that kind of mess. It takes the heart out of you when you bust your butt working on something and then get ripped into. Many of us who have had a few minor issues ALWAYS got service and 99.9% got satisfied on a problem fix with a bit exercise in patience. On the other hand, some of the short temperedness coming from the staff and moderators was not the best thing in a public sense. I understand full well if skin is chaffed enough, raw nerves will begin to generate pain and irritation. However, the posters I mentioned in my last post on this thread who were merely younger and/or new members who displayed a lot of enthusiasm and exuberance that seemed to wear on a few nerves. Watching some of the exchanges, I feel more than a fair share of them(the posting members) meant no harm but got short replies because of others who did act like buttheads. In the end, if you're open to the public at large, you open yourself up to all kinds of personalities being good, bad or indifferent.

As a person who worked in public affairs for corporations and one politician and having to deal with a vast canvas of different beliefs and personalities both public and press, I know all too well what it feels like to be standing in front of a group of people large or small, keeping a smile on your face whilst getting your grille kicked in trying your damndest to keep your composure. Ain't easy but it can be done. All in the long story short, the forums at Alphasim were going downhill for a while, The fun and enjoyment and camaraderie is long gone sadly. Better to put it to pasture and be done with it if it's become an unwelcome liability to the staff. I support the efforts past and present from the team and hope to buy some of those products as I have many times in the past. If this move helps them to move Alphasim upwards and onwards, I'm all for it. Let's see what happens and best of luck to them.

huub vink
October 6th, 2008, 00:56
All the good out of it overshadowed by a lot of baseless verbal attacks, personal politics, contentious personalities, drive-by-posters, and various other things that aren't moral boosting qualities in a public forum.

We are not talking about the SOH, are we? :costumes:

Huub

Helldiver
October 6th, 2008, 01:21
As a CEO and President of three Aerospace companies I can only say that Phils business model is completely at odds with what is taught at the Harvard Business School.
I have never attended AlphaSims forums and can only guess at the content. But with Phil overseeing it, I would guess the words must be guarded.

deathfromafar
October 6th, 2008, 01:47
We are not talking about the SOH, are we? :costumes:

Huub

LOL, nope although we all speak our minds every now and then with an occasional need to reel it in, the atmosphere here is pretty good and the people here are by and large a great group.

I have zero complaints. :ernae:

Bone
October 6th, 2008, 03:03
Hey guys. I'm new to posting here, although I've been lurking for awhile. I've been posting over at alphasim, but obviously that's a dead game, it's nice to see a few of the old names over here.

formerly "Bone" at A.S.

expat
October 6th, 2008, 03:47
Hey Bone, I remember you. Welcome to the SOH forums.

michael davies
October 6th, 2008, 05:22
Phil may have his reasons, I know that I posted a clarification to the SH-2's PDF and someone with his own agenda hijacked the thread. I had to ask that the thread be locked and that I in no way felt slighted by Phil's reply. It seemed that some members were just looking for any reason to pounce on a mistake. :censored: 'em, I hope they choke.


That would probably have been me then ?, I stand by what I said then and I stand by it now, the issue was simple, the model was wrong, they were told it was wrong before it was shipped, they were given offers of free help to fix it whilst they slept so as to remove any impact on schedules, it was ignore and refused. They paid for my work but refused all other input to make the product a better deal.

The only persons choking are the poor customers who bought a 'know' substandard rushed released product and had to wait for fixes.

The SH-2 is a product I wished I had had no input or party to, it still sticks in my throat and tastes vile. I have no issue being slighted in a public forum for my beliefs in standing up for a better product, even if it upsets others.

Contrary to some hate mail, I'm not out to air dirty laundry, it just grates me insanely to see customers who parted with hard earned cash complain about the very same issues noticed pre release by internal members, and then in some cases either not answered or fobbed off with some excuse, if you ship a know bugged product, at least have the cahones to stand up four square and take it on the chin.

My views are not anti Alphasim, they are pro quality products, I hope other people can make that distinction.

I'm sorry you feel this way about me, it is not reciprocated.

Sincerely

Michael Davies

wombat666
October 6th, 2008, 06:46
That would probably have been me then ?, I stand by what I said then and I stand by it now, the issue was simple, the model was wrong, they were told it was wrong before it was shipped, they were given offers of free help to fix it whilst they slept so as to remove any impact on schedules, it was ignore and refused. They paid for my work but refused all other input to make the product a better deal.
The only persons choking are the poor customers who bought a 'know' substandard rushed released product and had to wait for fixes.
The SH-2 is a product I wished I had had no input or party to, it still sticks in my throat and tastes vile. I have no issue being slighted in a public forum for my beliefs in standing up for a better product, even if it upsets others.
Contrary to some hate mail, I'm not out to air dirty laundry, it just grates me insanely to see customers who parted with hard earned cash complain about the very same issues noticed pre release by internal members, and then in some cases either not answered or fobbed off with some excuse, if you ship a know bugged product, at least have the cahones to stand up four square and take it on the chin.
My views are not anti Alphasim, they are pro quality products, I hope other people can make that distinction.
I'm sorry you feel this way about me, it is not reciprocated.
Sincerely
Michael Davies

Michael,
Those of us who know you believe in your motivation 100%, and it has always been based on a good product and proper customer service.
No apology neccessary, end of story.
:applause:

Islander
October 6th, 2008, 07:49
Thankfully there's SOH! Though I've never posted a lot here, I've browsed the forum on a daily basis for two or three years- a friendly and relaxed environment with a huge resource of experience, ideas and assistance.

It would be unfair to watch the AS forum disappear without thanking those who made it a fine place to share ideas, etc for such a long time. There are the developers and team members, past and present. There are the 'civilian' moderators who volunteered their time in an effort to keep us on track, and there are the members without whose ideas, assistance, screenshots and humour the whole thing would have deflated.
Thanks... all of you :applause::applause:. It's nice to see many of those characters posting here.

Some of you know my views on communication- face-to-face is first preference, telephone is second, followed by forums then lastly email. The vast scope of this hobby of ours dictates that face-to-face communication is rare and telephone conversations are limited. Accordingly, a lot of us who wish to maintain an open dialogue make regular use of forums. That dialogue may be a technical issue, it may be sharing screenshots, it may be light humour... whatever form it takes, it's all communication.

It is my view that ANY decision to restrict communication is a bad one- bad for morale, bad for (in this case) corporate image, and very likely bad for business.

Fortunately, there's Sim-Outhouse :ernae: !

tommieboy
October 6th, 2008, 08:53
Now posted to the website:

Announcement : Due to technical problems, both the forum and gallery are no longer accessible. The gallery will be re-instated as soon as practical, however after much consideration, we have decided not to re-instate the forum. We are confident that a leaner AlphaSim is the way forward and this increased efficiency will result in more and better models and scenery in the coming years.
We would also like to announce our partnership with the well-known FS publisher Flight One. Our B-24 and Hawker Hunter have already been released as boxed titles. A series of primarily civilian titles will also be released in the coming months, both on our site as well as through Flight one.
Finally, many will have noticed that the ageing airfield scenery has been removed. This was done at the request of the author. It is not known at present whether the scenery will be available anywhere else.

So be it. A mistake

Bob

AlphaSim was always my candy store for military aircraft, and I hope there are still some goofy oddball military releases in the future, and not just the mainstream stuff. If not, I guess we all still have ItoSim.....

I'm not too interested in the civilian stuff, but I wish AlphaSim well. I'll miss the AS forums, as it was a home away from home for many of the AlphaSim supporters.

Tommy

P.S. Hey Phil how about a few more oddball British aircraft in the future....:d....I'm just starting to appreciate those old birds.....just recently picked up the Blackburn Firebrand and love it.....

strikehawk
October 6th, 2008, 17:05
Michael, my comments were not directed at you, they were aimed at some posters who tried to speak for me. Basically how Phil had disrespected me in his reaction to my post pointing out the MAD bird being misnamed. I posted under the name "Firehawkordy", and I tried to keep my posts few and far between over there.

The ones I hope choke are the ones who pestered for release dates, made criticisms and never any contributions, you know the ones I speak of. As for the average member/customer, yeah I think we all received a raw deal and I hope Phil knows what he is doing. The screen shots of the Osprey repaints are what convinced me to buy my first AS product and then to buy more. Oh well, life goes on.

Anyway, I apologize if you misinterpreted my comments. I meant no harm to the members of that forum that actually gave a :censored:.

michael davies
October 7th, 2008, 04:56
Michael, my comments were not directed at you, they were aimed at some posters who tried to speak for me. Basically how Phil had disrespected me in his reaction to my post pointing out the MAD bird being misnamed. I posted under the name "Firehawkordy", and I tried to keep my posts few and far between over there.

The ones I hope choke are the ones who pestered for release dates, made criticisms and never any contributions, you know the ones I speak of. As for the average member/customer, yeah I think we all received a raw deal and I hope Phil knows what he is doing. The screen shots of the Osprey repaints are what convinced me to buy my first AS product and then to buy more. Oh well, life goes on.

Anyway, I apologize if you misinterpreted my comments. I meant no harm to the members of that forum that actually gave a :censored:.

As I said, not a problem from me :ernae:.

In defence to those that tried to defend you, Phils comments could have easily been taken by other parties a snub toward you, the comments could have been worded a little better to remove any doubt as to there context.

It did also illustrate that it is very often not the two main parties that cause issues, but those who join later to 'take' sides, this turns it from an individual debate to a us Vs them argument and that is never a good route to go down. Support for a cause is good but must be played out in a controlled way so as to avoid what could become a playground scrum.

I said above earlier, that the SH-2 was a substandard product, on reflection that is untrue, whilst I have personal issues with the product from a production point of view, they should not be indicative of its overall quality.

It is a good package, I am happy with the FDE that I provided, a better summation would be, missed opportunities to reduce negative customer impact.

I hope that clears that up.

Best

Michael

b52bob
October 7th, 2008, 19:29
The screen shots of the Osprey repaints are what convinced me to buy my first AS product and then to buy more.

That is the worst part of the forums being taken down. IMHO the screen shot forum sold more aircraft than any other advertising means.

i know that I bought a few after seeing thescreen shots.

Bob

WarHorse47
October 7th, 2008, 19:54
That is the worst part of the forums being taken down. IMHO the screen shot forum sold more aircraft than any other advertising means.

i know that I bought a few after seeing thescreen shots.

BobSpeaking of which, I'm still waiting for Pierre Ilheurux to release the repaints for the SeaSprite. He posted screenshots on the AS forums about a month ago, and indicate a release was forthcoming. Now that the forums are gone, there's no way to contact him and ask him the status. In fact, there's no way to contact any of the team members on any repaint or custom fix for the AS line anymore. :kilroy:

--WH

deathfromafar
October 7th, 2008, 21:49
WarHorse, try this email from his repaint uploads at Avsim:

pierre.lheureux@skynet.be

WarHorse47
October 8th, 2008, 15:15
WarHorse, try this email from his repaint uploads at Avsim:

pierre.lheureux@skynet.be Thank you. E-mail en route.

--WH

Tigster
October 9th, 2008, 06:49
I think Alphasim will now need to look very closely at their beta testing, as without a tech support forum the notorious 'testing by customer' process will be even less palatable than before.

Beta testing comes in two flavours. The first, which IMO is only really suitable for freeware, is to distribute copies to a few people who will install, use for half an hour, and report back that it looks fine. The second is to give each tester a detailed checklist to work through, with as much overlap between testers as possible. With the amount of basic errors that make it to v1.0 of most AS releases I would have a huge problem believing the second method is being used, but for a payware product - especially at the higher price range AS have moved into - anything less is totally unacceptable.

I don't blame the individual developers for these errors. I'm well aware of the huge amount of work that goes into even a relatively small project, and how easily one or two small tasks can be missed in amongst hundreds of others, but this is why we have beta testing. Neither do I blame the testers, if each of them is left to independently test every aspect of a project without guidance (ie every aspect that occurs to them off the top of their head in 30 minutes). What I blame is the apparent lack of a coordinated testing strategy as outlined above. A few people have suggested the same thing in the AS forums previously - and promptly been hacked to pieces by moderators and 'fanboys'. Payware beta testers are basically being 'paid' the price of the finished product, so it's not unreasonable for the developer - or the customer who indirectly pays them - to expect a higher level of professionalism than from freeware testers. Most will be happy to provide it (freeware testers too), but you have to ask them for it.

Because of the basic nature of most of these errors, many have in the past been quickly identified and corrected by paying customers who would then post links to their own updated files or step by step instructions. Other customers with less knowledge of the nuts and bolts could then apply these fixes while waiting for them to be officially distributed with the next model update (mdl's being the only files not editable by the end user), or would at least know that a fix is in the pipeline if they prefer to wait for official fixes. Without a tech support forum, AS can no longer rely on this system, and more to the point neither can their paying customers. Each end user, on discovering a bug, will be left wondering whether anybody else has the same problem, whether anybody else has a solution, whether Alphasim are aware of either the problem or the solution, while Alphasim will need to find time to tackle each problem themselves, rather than often having fixes gifted to them within the forum. I would expect this to lead to an increased workload for the individual developers, who will be spending time identifying and fixing things they've overlooked on old projects instead of working on new ones, and a massively increased workload for the management in answering support emails from customers who would previously have turned initially to tech support (and found what they needed without needing to email anyone). I would also expect increasing numbers of AS customers to turn to developers who DO provide support forums (and adequate beta testing). [/RANT] :icon_lol:

Having said all that, I do think Alphasim provide some of the best all-round products on the market for FS, and for all the minor issues they've released very few actual duds. I just hope they can sort out the testing and reinstate the tech support. If they can't do both then they probably need to do at least one, or risk a big reduction in their customer base.

strikehawk
October 10th, 2008, 08:23
Speaking of which, I'm still waiting for Pierre Ilheurux to release the repaints for the SeaSprite. He posted screenshots on the AS forums about a month ago, and indicate a release was forthcoming. Now that the forums are gone, there's no way to contact him and ask him the status. In fact, there's no way to contact any of the team members on any repaint or custom fix for the AS line anymore. :kilroy:

--WH

Check the "Unofficial Forum" in the cafe, Pierre posted a reply there.

WarHorse47
October 10th, 2008, 15:28
Check the "Unofficial Forum" in the cafe, Pierre posted a reply there.I know. I already contacted him via e-mail. After his response to my question on the repaints, I gave him the link to the new forum. By reading his posts it looks like he's going to crank up the effort to get the new paints completed.

--WH

hae5904
October 11th, 2008, 01:21
At least I see many former AS forum visitors....warhorse, bones and simfreak and not to forget Frank himself here on the forum. I was plain "hank" on the AS forum. Time to post here possible repaints??

I fully agree with the fact, with the demise of the AS forum something got lossed.....

Cheers

planejunky
October 11th, 2008, 14:24
I've thought for a while that something was definately "up" over at Alphasim. The first thing was that the coppermine screen shots didn't match up properly to their products, and the forum was much reduced by comparison to the old days. Despite forum posts about the screenies, there didn't seem to much interest in changing it, a BIG problem if you want people to buy the product.

The last major problem I had with them was their insistance that "they were right" over the British Army WAH-64 loadout, and what would anyone else know. I live eight miles from WTM and see them every day, plus I also know a 3 Reg armourer! To AS's credit they did issue a new model with the correct standard Apache loadout, but I felt their attitude was a little off.

While I'd never complain about a freeware product (you get what you pay for etc) I'm in full agreement with Michael Davies over payware. If you are charging £20 plus for a product, then the customer has a right to express an opinion if it's not correct without being accused of being a rivet counter. If it's wrong, it's wrong and no amount of name calling will alter a shoddy product.

Alphasim have produced some great products over the years, I have a hangar full of them, but I can't help feeling AS has now somehow gone adrift with no one in the wheel house, and removal of their forum is just another example of my theory.