Just Flight DC-6B released

[AussieMan]

Finally the wait is over. The JF DC-6B has been released for download and pre-pay for the boxed version that is due on the 24th of this month.

http://www.justflight.com/product.asp?pid=835

Mods is this good for a sticky?

[huub vink]

It is Pat, ;)

Cheers,
Huub

[Martyn]

We've had to temporarily take down the product due to an issue with the installer. Should be back up shortly!

[Martyn]

The product is back on sale!

[paiken]

Downloading now...thanks for the heads up! I've been eagerly anticipating this one.

[guzler]

Now, that does look rather nice

[Barnes]

Im interested but really would like to see some more screenshots by customers first. For example i cant see any reflection from the cockpit windows and the pilots in one shot look like giants. I hope someone can prove me wrong as a DC-6 would be a great addition.

[dougal]

I wonder how long before 'the other' DC6 arrives though. Much as I really want one, I might wait for that.

Like many addons, they're just like London buses.... none for ages then two or three come together:icon_lol:

[dougal]

What are the sounds like guys?

[Barnes]

I wonder how long before 'the other' DC6 arrives though. Much as I really want one, I might wait for that.

Like many addons, they're just like London buses.... none for ages then two or three come together:icon_lol:


Agreed

[Roger]

Well I've bought it and so far I like it. I especially like the frame rates and I'll post some screenies later.

[dougal]

Well I've bought it and so far I like it. I especially like the frame rates and I'll post some screenies later.

Brilliant, thanks Roger!

[dougal]

Crickey! Threads like this usually take off. I can only asume not many are jumping in with this one?

[Roger]

I'm doing a major defrag at the moment and trying to track down a multitude of atapi errors in the event viewer so screenshots maybe tomorrow.

[Navy Chief]

Yep, just bought it too!

NC

[Ian Warren]

Down in Hamner Springs , New Zealands South Island and only an hour north of Christchurch :icon_lol:
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m31/Ian_Warren/2010 Flightsim/3Custom-61.jpg
Course had to have the atmospheric scene and the grass and the bees and the bugs http://nzff.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m31/Ian_Warren/2010 Flightsim/1Custom-74.jpg
And to sneak in jumping the fence
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m31/Ian_Warren/2010 Flightsim/2Custom-65.jpg
Once loaded up it was off to buzz the tower ..... OHAKEA Mid North Island , New Zealands top secret base , Kahu also modified to suit B-52s so
you can fly in from anywhere with ya six
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m31/Ian_Warren/2010 Flightsim/5Custom-39.jpg
Air Commodore Kahu is going to rip strips of me for this one ... DAMN THATS TWICE
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m31/Ian_Warren/2010 Flightsim/4Custom-45.jpg

[bazzar]

Very nice shots Ian.:medals:

Don't forget to hit the groundcart and security switches to get the support stuff when on the ground. Left hand fire toggle and the last right of the W/A switches on the overhead.

[jojohnson9]

Nice screenshots of the C-118...but where did it come from? I bought the DC-6 this afternoon, but I didn't get that C-118.

[Ian Warren]

:icon_lol: I'm still checking to see how it mo's the grass there Baz , course making sure the rough field handling for the cargo pilots and a Carribean routes .

[Ian Warren]

Nice screenshots of the C-118...but where did it come from? I bought the DC-6 this afternoon, but I didn't get that C-118.

This maybe in the pack addon , I was running a beta here .

[wilycoyote4]

Pardon me, I know they were not common,just curious.long ago they were a sight and sound starting with smokey coughs and quiet taxiing to a deep loud rumbling purr at takeoff speed. A real bit of history for these birds.

[jojohnson9]

This maybe in the pack addon , I was running a beta here .
Future expansion pack. Just found it at Just Flight...coming soon. I had a few flights in a VR-52 C-118 out of Willow Grove in the seventies, so I will definitely get this pack.

[TeiscoDelRay]

Was going to do a cockpit for this bird but the stock one is so nice I couldn't find anything to change. Great frame rates and flys like a big heavy plane, just what I like.

Here is PanAm leaving some far island in the Carribean as the sun sets.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii22/Warbirds_photos/pan.jpg

[hawkeye52]

The USN version in the first screenies has the national insignia incorrectly placed. Too bad.

- H52

[bazzar]

Please remember that Ian is using an early beta. This has all been rectified in the final versions.

[Ian Warren]

Here is PanAm leaving some far island in the Carribean as the sun sets.

I'm waiting for the old rustic cargo hacks :icon_lol: one you can drop onto any old coral strip in some far away Island group .

[Ian Warren]

The USN version in the first screenies has the national insignia incorrectly placed. Too bad.


One i do wants paint is 'The City of Christchurch' VR-22 131567 , waiting to here back from CHCH US Navy archives . :salute:

[strykerpsg]

Ian, is your scenery VLC, Orbx or FSX stock? Contemplating buying it instead of Orbx.

Matt

[AussieMan]

Ian, is your scenery VLC, Orbx or FSX stock? Contemplating buying it instead of Orbx.

Matt

Matt, that scenery looks very much like ORBX NZSI.

[strykerpsg]

Matt, that scenery looks very much like ORBX NZSI.
Damn, gonna be a tough choice on which one to buy....they both look pretty good, though seems as though VLC offers more for the money, covering both islands.

Still gonna do some research.

Matt

[Ian Warren]

The scenery is NZSI , the scenery area is photo real over- lay,d onto it having ORBX fill in the gap's , works well but requires builds in both scenery,s the thing is was ideal to test a DC-6 in a valley .. oh boy going to love this when its done .. sorta your Southern H to the Carribean and its Island strips .

[oldpropfan]

Before I head over to the JF support forums, has anybody been able to engage the prop reverse? Took a short hop after install and was surprised to get no reversers on landing, the Martin bar is there and moves when you pull the throttles past 0 but nothing happens.

Al

[Navy Chief]

Although I have bought/installed this, I have not looked at it yet. Was hoping the C-118 paint was included, but oh well. I hope it is released soon!

NC

[Roger]

Some screenshots:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/rogera/dc6jf-1.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/rogera/dc6jf-2.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/rogera/dc6jf-3.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/rogera/dc6jf-4.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/rogera/dc6jf-5.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/rogera/dc6jf-6.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/rogera/dc6jf-7.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y203/rogera/dc6jf-8.jpg

[Barnes]

Thanks for the screens - very useful - i think i will pass on this one.

[thefrog]

Exteriors are ok but that screenshot of the vc has helped me decide to wait for the 'other' DC-6, currently in development.

[Roger]

I have to concede I'm not the best screenshot taker in the business but the office works well for me and no sudden crash and burns as once the auto pilot is engaged there's time to adjust mixture and prop pitch.

[Barnes]

Have they put glass in the windscreens and cabin windows - there seems to be no refections at all in the external screenshots.

[flaviossa]

Wow Roger, the first Pan Am picture is amazing. What is the icao of that image?
Thanks!

[Roger]

Wow Roger, the first Pan Am picture is amazing. What is the icao of that image?
Thanks!

Hi, it's KBVS by ORBX, Skagit regional airport.

[TeiscoDelRay]

I like the cockpit, complex yet still gives good frame rates.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii22/Warbirds_photos/dc6.jpg

[wilycoyote4]

At the risk of bad manners on my part, I mean more than usual, here is the same VC screeny put through a freeware digital editor to improve the shadow detail. Hope it helps. :guinness:

[bazzar]

Have they put glass in the windscreens and cabin windows - there seems to be no refections at all in the external screenshots.

We don't like the stock reflections. You get trees, grass and mountains at 12,000 feet... so we haveour own more subtle sky reflection in the glassware.
Cockpit is fully functional with W/A injection, fuel dump, autopilot integration with ILS and NAV, antiskid braking (automatic - no keystroke required) , individual engine fuel feed from correct tanks selection and a heck of a lot morefolks....:engel016:

[papab]

Looks fantastic!

I really like JF's products and this one will go in my hanger on payday!

Thanks JF for another fine model....
Well done!


Rick

[bazzar]

Before I head over to the JF support forums, has anybody been able to engage the prop reverse? Took a short hop after install and was surprised to get no reversers on landing, the Martin bar is there and moves when you pull the throttles past 0 but nothing happens.

Al

Check your Aircraft CFG file in the airplane folders. Go to the [propeller] section and the entry line "prop_reverse_available". It should be =1 if not change the 0 to a 1 and it should be fine.:engel016:

[DennyA]

Totally buying this as soon as I get my Just Flight points for preordering X-Plane 10. Knowing it's from the Aeroplane Heaven guys is all I need.

[AussieMan]

Good day at work today so this one will be in my hangar sometime tonight or early in the morning.

[Martyn]

The paint kit is now available here (http://www.justflight.com/faqs.asp?drdProduct=298)

[AussieMan]

Thanks Martyn ..... was about to ask :)

[Landman]

Well, I gotta say there is a lot about it that I like. I like the finely detailed model. I like the nice virtual cockpit. Most older aircraft like this one come with one of two different modeling styles of virtual cockpit: either old worn out peeling paint rust bucket look or the brand new just out of the factory look. This one has the new look which I like much better. I like the IFR instruments but the old style fixed compass card takes some getting used to. You have to kinda re-train your brain to interpret what the data shows. I haven't flown it yet cuz I'm still reading all the documentation that came with it but I'm sure I will be back with more comments and maybe some screen shots about how much fun it is to fly.

[bazzar]

Hi Landman, Enjoy the old girl, we put in a better autopilot after the manual was written. You'll find that it will synch to the NAV and approach data, so bad weather approaches should be a bit easier. She's still going to be a handful but at least you'll make the strip in one piece!:engel016:

[Landman]

Wow! I did a couple of flights and it was great. It was very smooth and easy to handle. Getting the feel of it was no problem at all. One big plus is that it is quite easy to level off and trim at exactly any given altitude and the plane stays there without having to constantly readjust if you are not using the autopilot. Handling is very steady and it needs a lot of control input sometimes which is what I expected from looking at the small size of the ailerons compared to the size of the wings. The soundset is absolutely magical. Gonna do a lot of VOR navigating with this one. Yeah I like those instruments. It's been a while since I've done a round the world flight and I am thinking of doing one with this plane in many hops across all continents except Antarctica. Two questions: There is an ADF 2 radio but I don't seem to find a corresponding gauge on the instrument panel. The skinny #1 needle on the RMI points to the ADF 1 and the fat #2 needle points to the VOR 2 station and the Radio Compass also points to the ADF 1. The other 2 gauges are for VOR 1/ILS. So is there a gauge for ADF 2? Not that I will use it much but just wondering. Also what is the small round steering wheel shaped thing in the center of the dash on top of the main instrument panel just below the whiskey compass? Is that a rudder trim wheel in the real plane? It is not clickable in this model and there is nothing about it in the pdf documentation.


Enjoy a few screenshots:

5911759118591195912059121591225912359124

[Tim-HH]

Is that a rudder trim wheel in the real plane?

Yes, that's the rudder trim tab handwheel. And the degree of trim is shown on an indicator below the wheel.

Greetings
Tim

[Kiwikat]

After seeing the screenshots and my experiences with the DC-3, I think I'll be waiting for the "other" one. It is great to see these oldies being made though!

[dougal]

I bought it.

I like the flight model, it FEELS good. I like the external model too, very nicely done.

Can't in all honesty say I like the VC. I've seen others refer to it as 'cartoony'. I would not go that far, but do feel that it's not really up to todays FSX standards. I appreciate developers want to maximise frame rates etc, but there's just not enough polys IMO. Too many angles and squared off corners. I also feel the colours used in the VC are perhaps a little too vivid.

HOWEVER, it's vital to remember that this is also reflected in the price. Again, using todays standards, it's not an expensive addon by any means.

I'd be interested to hear more opinions on the VC as I know some aspects are very subjective.

[wombat666]

As a 'Virtual Cockpit' in a 'Virtual Aircraft' in a 'Virtual Flight Simulation' it works fine for me.
As long as the VC looks clean and sharp and functions then that is all I ask and there are very few [if any] AH developed aircraft that have given me concern.
:applause:

[Landman]

Check this out: http://www.deltamuseum.org/pdf/dc-6_brochure.pdf

[wilycoyote4]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8Xhf-N-ny0 flight ops of Everts Air in Alaska and links to other DC-6B vids here and there

[joe bob]

So the sound is OK? I watched the video in the product page and it seems rather dated.
Did you ever get the reverse to work?

[Maarten -]

Sorry about me being this negative but the shape of the fin and rudder is totally wrong. Same for the nacelles. It looks more like a cartoon to me. There are much better Sixes available freeware.

Cheers,
Maarten

[bazzar]

Sorry, but you're going to have to show me where exactly the fin etc. is wrong.

[Maarten -]

Sorry, but you're going to have to show me where exactly the fin etc. is wrong.


Well, just compare it to the hundreds of photos at e.g. airlinersnet.com and you'll see what I mean. It's very obvious.

Cheers,
Maarten

[Roger]

Oh dear Maarten, I believe if you're going to rubbish a model in this way that the burden of proof is in your court. I think you may have caused a stickied thread to be closed. I'll give it 30 minutes for your proof or this thread will go down.

[Okami]

Hi Landman, Enjoy the old girl, we put in a better autopilot after the manual was written. You'll find that it will synch to the NAV and approach data, so bad weather approaches should be a bit easier. She's still going to be a handful but at least you'll make the strip in one piece!:engel016:

Sorry for the criticism, but I have to say that that particular Sabena texture is probably one of the worst I've ever seen, and in no way comes close to accurately representing ANY Sabena livery worn by the DC-6B in the 1956-1970 era...

[bazzar]

It's OK Roger.

Let's see now...



Here's a shot of the model, one off Airliners and a combination.

Why all the negativity? What have we ever done to deserve such "global" attacks?

It just isn't worth hanging here any longer, I'm over it.

Been around for 10 years this year, never seen anything like it. What a shame.

[bazzar]

Sorry for the criticism, but I have to say that that particular Sabena texture is probably one of the worst I've ever seen, and in no way comes close to accurately representing ANY Sabena livery worn by the DC-6B in the 1956-1970 era...


nope, nowhere close....

[Okami]

nope, nowhere close....

Sorry mate, I actually dismissed textures for less when I was beta-ing the VBF CV-240 repaints...

59612

[bazzar]

And a PM or email couldn't have sufficed?

[Roger]

Sorry mate, I actually dismissed textures for less when I was beta-ing the VBF CV-240 repaints...

59612

Riveting!

[OleBoy]

Give that person a paint brush and a modeling program. That was a brilliant debate. NOT

[gigabyte]

I am going to throw in my .02 ¢, I really don't pay any attention to rivet counters and complaints about paints or the font used on a skin, please keep in mind this is only my personal opinion and nothing more, I know some folks are fussy about that stuff. For me I look for function and a good flight model, and I am partial to prop liners so as soon as I get back from a short visit to some friends I will be purchasing this fine looking aircraft, it sure looks purdy to me and I like the looks of those interiors, I have a feeling this bird will not be spendig much time in my hanger either, it is going to get some serious flight time on the airframe with me enjoying every minute of it.

[flaviossa]

Well, just bought the JF DC-6 30 seconds ago. The Sabena livery and the model is perfect for my eyes. Thanks Bazzar for the wonderful package! :salute:

[crashaz]

Put me down for an aircraft order too....although it is too late now.

If you ever wonder how or why one gets into the business of developing.... we were once customers too.... back in the day though we didn't kick someone... we thought... oh wow... I can do better... let me learn how to do this. Of course there are a ton of people in the development community who offered help and guidance to help us learn. I was indebted to many.... heh... still am.

Geez make a small buck and all of a sudden people are evil.

Nice plane Baz.... sorry I did not get here sooner.... flying a race... as a team.....

.... hmm what an idea eh.... work together as a team?

[CWOJackson]

Not exactly my cup of tea but well worth the price. :salute:

[PRB]

When I think I see something wrong with a new release, that I feel is super duper important, I PM the developer. I don't know, that just seems like the polite way to go about such things. This is just sad. Now I'm definately buying this plane.

[JAllen]

My answer to such attacks is simple, DOWNLOADING RIGHT NOW.

Thank you for helping make up my mind. Jim

[TeiscoDelRay]

A happy DC6 owner here, just love the old gal and flying it on small hops here and there. There was one featured in a new movie I just saw on Netflix streaming called "Brides Flight". The plane was painted in KLM colors for the movie and it looked great. Some interior shots with stewardess and passengers as well.

[N2056]

Seems only fair to make observations on the observations...

59628

[Ian Warren]

One thing you may notice is the many variations over a aircraft,s history , classic example was NZ s NAC Viscount how often and many times the schemes changed in the very short period in the early years , the amount of model types and even the same but different layout of window/porthole , they may at time simply paint over them , so think due respect should be given .

[AussieMan]

N2056 Ii am disgusted with your appraisal of the DC-6 for Sabena. This has nothing to do with the model but with the person who did the paintwork. A lot of the time they are working from photos that are of poor quality. Believe me I have come up against the same thing with some of the repaints I have attempted. And any models you produce in future will be on my blacklist.

I am a very happy DC-6 owner.

[N2056]

I suggest you re-read the thread.
I was hitting on the ORIGINAL picture that was the actual problem!

[Tako_Kichi]

N2056 Ii am disgusted with your appraisal of the DC-6 for Sabena.
I think you got the wrong end of the stick Pat. :icon_lol:

Robert (N2056) was having a go at the original poster of that picture and his comments are the ones without the white boxes pointing out the 'faults' in the original poster's comments. He was not having a go at the DC-6 at all. Robert is a developer too and would never do something like that to another developer's work.

[gradyhappyg]

Oh no not this again!


59629
"there are four rivets"

[JAllen]

Isn't the correct writing of i.e. actually i.e., ? oh dear where do I put the ? ?
Nothing a little whiteout can't fix. OR a little paint for that matter.

[PRB]

Just bought the ship, and a pretty one she is. Great work!

http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p575/GHJ9854/FS/JF_DC-6_1.jpg

http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p575/GHJ9854/FS/JF_DC-6_2.jpg

http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p575/GHJ9854/FS/JF_DC-6_3.jpg

http://i1156.photobucket.com/albums/p575/GHJ9854/FS/JF_DC-6_4.jpg

[N2056]

Isn't the correct writing of i.e. actually i.e., ? oh dear where do I put the ? ?
Nothing a little whiteout can't fix. OR a little paint for that matter.


See, nobody's perfect! :icon_lol:

In all honesty I was hoping to add a bit of levity to the thread while illustrating a point. It seems to have failed, and I doubt I'll make an attempt at humor here again.

[Naki]

Hey I thought your analysis of the punctuation was funny...:mixedsmi:

Unless you line the aircraft up with the real aircraft and compare photos very closely you won't know the difference.

[SSI01]

N2056 my dad never graduated from high school, he elected to leave the house in the mid-30s and hit the road so there would be one less mouth to feed during the Depression. He never finished high school - but before he left school he won a Detroit News statewide spelling bee in Michigan. My family has the MASSIVE inscribed Webster's dictionary the newspaper gave him as a prize to prove it. For a long time he worked as a construction inspector for a civil engineering firm. He had to read and be familiar with blueprints, made or annotated by college engineering grads, in order to do his job and was FOREVER finding misspellings and improper punctuation on these documents. It gave him great amusement to do this, and make little written corrections to the errors. Dad died in April of 1982. When I saw your take on the criticism of the criticism of the DC-6's paint job and technical details, I immediately thought of him and rest assured you gave me a good laugh.
:icon_lol:
Where is this aircraft available at? The Just Flight site? I'm a little leery of purchasing it as I've had both outstanding and not so good results with their products (JF Mosquito and Lancasters work very well indeed; on the other hand their P-38 won't display external textures no matter what I do). However, I naturally side with someone who is under attack after doing their best and turning out what looks to be an outstanding product. I like to fly something that is esthetically pleasing and fun to fly, and "approximates" the operating parameters of the real thing. I couldn't do a paint job if my life depended on it and I appreciate the efforts of those who actually DO the paint jobs (and everything else), trying hard to give an accurate representation of an aircraft's appearance and performance. If someone can give me a straightforward appraisal of this aircraft I may join the queue at the website.

[jeansy]

here we go again


http://netanimations.net/Moving-picture-dog-chasing-tail-gif-animation.gif


to be honest, I bought it as a gap filler while on waiting for the other brand

[JAllen]

Launched out of McCarran 25R and flew a nice circuit of the Vegas valley and put her down on 25L with a smooth return to Terminal 2.
Nice solid feel to the controls made approach easily predictable. Sweet little flying airplane for me. Love that Pan Am paint too.

I like it. Jim

[AussieMan]

At the moment I am trying to find a decent shot of an Ansett-ANA DC-6 so I can do a repaint. Also looking for a decent Trans Australian Airlines DC-6 as well so I can add to that stable also.

I love flying this aircraft but am trying to do repaints so I can have some Aussie models.

[wombat666]

Sorry mate, I actually dismissed textures for less when I was beta-ing the VBF CV-240 repaints...

59612

SABENA???? Who cares, just a tin pot minor airline that counts for nought.
Hows that for a dismissal??? :173go1:

[shackleton_boy]

http://www.showcaseyouth.com/Oh%20the%20Drama%203.jpg

[Maarten -]

Riveting!You must be joking! Cheerio!

[Okami]

Okay, I posted just one criticism yesterday evening, and the very last thing i expected was to cause a ****storm. I'm just going to run you all step by step through what I did, and why I did it in such a way.


1. I'm working in an industry where I'm expected to deliver high quality products time after time, and where we work according to the peer review system. We mark up each other's work, any minor mistake is a single mark, any severe mistake is a double mark. Anything over ten marks on one product is an automatic disapproval. I understand I might be asking too much from anybody not being used to being evaluated in this way.

2. I'm also known for not pulling punches. I call something as I see it, and if I disapprove of something I say so. What I saw, in my eyes, was not done to the standard I was expecting of a payware product - especially not one that has an advertisement campaign running in virtually every single aviation magazine I read.

3. I have also done quite research into Sabena for the past five years, so perhaps I am more knowledgeable about certain aspects, such as the company's liveries. I admit I allowed this to colour my vision on the subject. So I do offer my apologies for that.

Finally, in response to some of the replies I read in this and the other thread:

4. I am familiar with modelling, and I have also done quite a number of repaints, so I am well aware how challenging it is. I've actually canned some of my own stuff for less. So no need to attack me on that, thank you.

5. Wombat, if ever, that was probably the most disgusting argument I've ever read on any forum I've ever visited. Sabena is a personal matter for me. I routinely flew it, my parents flew it, my grandparents flew it, my great-grandfather even had quite a hairy emergency landing with the company in the 1930s which he only survived thanks to the skill of the company's pilots. I also have quite a number of acquaintances who worked for the company. For me, dishing the memory of the company is dishing them personally.

With that all said, I think it is probably best for me to shut up, I know when I'm not needed anymore, and apparently, from all of the replies, I'm 'irrelevant'.

[Tim-HH]

Okami, Maarten, what's wrong with you? Why are you starting such a 'campaign' against JF and AH in this and other forums (http://calclassic.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=4696)?

You are both still FS9 users. So why do you care about FSX addons then? Is it out of anger, because they do not support your Flight Simulator anymore...?

Constructive criticism is always welcomed. But making baseless and/or nit-picking accusations is nothing that should be tolerated over here.

Greetings
Tim

[Maarten -]

Okami, Maarten, what's wrong with you? Why are you starting such a 'campaign' against JF and AH in this and other forums (http://calclassic.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=4696)?

You are both still FS9 users. So why do you care about FSX addons then? Is it out of anger, because they do not support your Flight Simulator anymore...?

Constructive criticism is always welcomed. But making baseless and/or nit-picking accusations is nothing that should be tolerated over here.

Greetings
TimExcuse me Tim. If anyone is starting a "campaign" it is not Okami or me doing that. I was merely surprised about the quality of this payware DC-6. It was not an attack on anyone personally.

What Okami and myself on the other hand are undergoing after writing what our impression is, is hard to describe without becoming as rude as many people who reacted to our opinion. So I'll refrain from that.

Cheers,
Maarten

[Deano]

What Baz has stated isn't anything new or out of the ordinary and it certainly won't be the last thread on this topic.

That's the difference from a salary job and a indy team. If a dev team takes 1 year to produce an aircraft that's down to the last cm believe me, you wouldn't be able to afford this kind of accuracy on a regular basis. Gathering resources, 3d modellers, texture artists, FDE and XML Coders, project management, promotional material doesn't come cheap.

If I had to write up my personal hourly work for each aircraft and relied on it to pay the mortgage, Id be living under the stars.

Sorry to sadden everyone's hopes here BUT, you won't find a "100% accurate" aircraft in FSX EVER.. its just not physically possible. I don't care who the team is, its all lies.

I know where Baz is coming from with this, I've had it myself so as a lot of other teams and for those that say get thicker skin deserves a fat lip. :salute:

Sales are not as they used to be and everyone's feeling it. New aircraft are not coming in as thick and fast as they used to be. Old products are being revamped and re-sold simply because the ROI is diminishing.

vstudios won't be developing any new aircraft, we'll be completing what we have and then going down other avenues.

59640

[Roger]

I would truely like to see this thread back on topic but if it stays as it is then we will have to close it. There is a way to criticise in a kind and helpful way that few if any would take objection to, but some of the comments here are rubbishing the model rather than simply thinking that they hate it and leaving the rest of us to enjoy what we see. Members here don't need anyone telling them that their choice is poor and longstanding commercial members don't need the sort of mudslinging we have seen here.

[dougal]

I know I get paranoid sometimes;-) but I do so hope my previous post is not 'lumped' in with some these truely shameful rants? I tried to be as objective as possible.

For the price, I think this addon is more than fair.

****me, no wonder so many developers are pulling out!

[PRB]

2. I'm also known for not pulling punches. I call something as I see it, and if I disapprove of something I say so. What I saw, in my eyes, was not done to the standard I was expecting of a payware product - especially not one that has an advertisement campaign running in virtually every single aviation magazine I read.
This is the point some people are addressing here. First of all, while you may be “known for not pulling punches”, some are wondering why it is necessary to throw punches in the first place. What is the point of delivering what might otherwise be received as constructive criticism in the form of a “punch”, pulled or otherwise? One might try “hey, I can help you with this paint, here’s some reliable data I have on how it looks…”. This way it looks like you’re trying to help, see? When you instead say: “this is the worst paint job I’ve ever seen”, then it doesn’t look like you’re trying to be helpful. It looks like you’re trying to impress the crowd with how smart you are at somebody else’s expense, which doesn’t reflect well on you.

There are differences between being employed “in an industry where I'm expected to deliver high quality products time after time, and where we work according to the peer review system…” etc., and hanging out at a flight sim community web site as an interested observer. In the latter case, civility may be more effective…

[mal998]

I'm calling Donald Douglas about this!

Here's how I see it (for what little it's worth).

Criticism about the product is really criticism of the people whose work it is.

No matter how you slice it, that makes it personal.

If you tell me my work sucks, in reality you're telling me, I suck.

Do you really think I'm going to take kindly to anyone who tells me I suck?

The old adage is always true, "if you can't say anything nice, shut up"

I'm not saying everyone isn't entitled to their opinion, I'm just saying don't poison the well we all gotta drink from.

[dougal]

This is the point some people are addressing here. First of all, while you may be “known for not pulling punches”, some are wondering why it is necessary to throw punches in the first place. What is the point of delivering what might otherwise be received as constructive criticism in the form of a “punch”, pulled or otherwise? One might try “hey, I can help you with this paint, here’s some reliable data I have on how it looks…”. This way it looks like you’re trying to help, see? When you instead say: “this is the worst paint job I’ve ever seen”, then it doesn’t look like you’re trying to be helpful. It looks like you’re trying to impress the crowd with how smart you are at somebody else’s expense, which doesn’t reflect well on you.

There are differences between being employed “in an industry where I'm expected to deliver high quality products time after time, and where we work according to the peer review system…” etc., and hanging out at a flight sim community web site as an interested observer. In the latter case, civility may be more effective…


Beautifully& succinctly put:applause:

[wombat666]

Wombat, if ever, that was probably the most disgusting argument I've ever read on any forum I've ever visited. Sabena is a personal matter for me. I routinely flew it, my parents flew it, my grandparents flew it, my great-grandfather even had quite a hairy emergency landing with the company in the 1930s which he only survived thanks to the skill of the company's pilots. I also have quite a number of acquaintances who worked for the company. For me, dishing the memory of the company is dishing them personally.
With that all said, I think it is probably best for me to shut up, I know when I'm not needed anymore, and apparently, from all of the replies, I'm 'irrelevant'.

Good thinking the last paragraph.
SABENA????
A 'disgusting' argument????
Perhaps you need to 'develope a thicker skin'.......I prefer to not 'pull any punches' myself.
:173go1:

[Chris Sykes]

TBH im not an old airliners fan, even the DC-6 doesnt tickly my fancy but this is a very nice priced addon for the quality recieved. Infact there are addon's that are priced in the same £15-£25 range (abacus, AFS and LJL) that are a lot worse in both the model and paint quality when compaired to this addon...

[big-mike]

vstudios won't be developing any new aircraft, we'll be completing what we have and then going down other avenues.



Oh no---Deano,can`t be true???

Regarding the DC-6,i just don`t have her so i cannot say anything about her.
Over the years of simming,i know what i can expect from a developer and what not.
So i buy or not---quite simple for me.
I am only a simmer,not a real world aircraft expert and i would never have the idea to sit here
and compare photos or vids with an FSX model.I`m not that crazy.
I love a nice VC,nice sounds and an overall nice look inside and outside.
Ok, a DC-6 should look like a DC-6 and not like DC-8 of course.
So i will never understand what you are talking about here,it`s wasted time imho.
When you don`t like the product,don`t buy it but please don`t treat the developers the way you do it here.
What do you want to fly if all devs are gone???
My 2cents.
Michael

PS.I`ve just seen that i have collected some points at JF-----off,dl the DC-6:running:

[dougal]

PS.I`ve just seen that i have collected some points at JF-----off,dl the DC-6:running:

That was a nice surprise for me too. Made the DC6 a great buy!

[ColinT46]

That was a nice surprise for me too. Made the DC6 a great buy!

There will be points added with the DC-6B expansion pack as well when it arrives( If you want to buy it of course).

You can use them against your next purchase or let them accumulate until you decide to redeem them on the check-out page.


Colin.

[harrybasset]

When I think I see something wrong with a new release, that I feel is super duper important, I PM the developer. I don't know, that just seems like the polite way to go about such things. This is just sad. Now I'm definately buying this plane.

I agree that a polite private email is the way to advise the developer of a perceived problem. I recently found a small error on a repaint I had eagerly awaited, rather than shout from the rooftops how clever I was to find this little mistake I pmd the painter to explain what I thought was wrong. The repainter agreed and issued a corrected scheme and thanked me for not going public. I would not wish to embarrass or denigrate any person development or team in public. It only serves to make the whingers look small.

[Bone]

Sorry to sadden everyone's hopes here BUT, you won't find a "100% accurate" aircraft in FSX EVER.. its just not physically possible. I don't care who the team is, its all lies.


vstudios won't be developing any new aircraft, we'll be completing what we have and then going down other avenues.




1. Real planes aren't 100% either.

2. It's too bad you guys are throwing in the towell, but I really hope the T-33 is in the pipeline and will get finished.

[big-mike]

Just took her for a short hop and i must admit,that
i am very surprised.
Far better than the DC-3.
I was very sceptical before buying her,but i am very happy with
that old Lady.
Great job AH!
Michael

[Okami]

One very last thing on the issue:

I agree, a post was not the best way for me to address the issue. In the past, I've often PM'ed with repainters/developers of addons in which I perceived a problem, usually resulting in corrections.

My issue was mainly with the product brief (and this is from the Just Flight website):

Highly detailed exterior model featuring boarding stairs, service vehicles and other advanced animations
High-quality interactive 3D virtual cockpit (VC)
Highly detailed authentic liveries
High quality sound set Accurate flight dynamics, based on real-world data and tested by real-world pilots

and the way the product was presented. I really took an issue with that, as what was presented, did not corroborate with my idea of a highly detailed authentic livery, or the quality I normally associate with payware.

I do not have any issues with Just Flight itself, and I'm not on any kind of campaign against its products. This I want to make clear.

However, what was said afterwards by some people was unnecessary and hurtful in many ways. Right now I have a very short fuse, I'm literally working out of my sleeping bag on my computer with a cup of tea by my side (cup and saucer are not even mine!), that is when I'm not picking together the pieces of what was supposed to be my home. The past two months I've been in anything but my usual mindset due to all kinds of personal issues, which is probably why, in a rash moment, I deviated from my usual habit of PM'ing. With all regrettable results.

[michael davies]

closed

[Barnes]

Had to re-read the OP to make sure it didn't say Alphasim!.

Somethings just never change, I paid good cash to support the SoH server drive, I didn't pay to provide a platform for thread after thread of garbage by proclaimed experts, who probably haven't even purchased the products.

Enough already!.

So what about my question about window refections? Was that bad to ask if someone could show me, as the official screen shots did not, if the windows had external textures? I support SOH so i do have an independent forum to ask fellow simmers to give their reactions to a product other than on the dev's own forums. Also i see that devs generally allow the negative comments on their own forums that appear here.

One thing i will say. Since coming to SOH i have spent more, not less, on FSX addon products!!! Im only put off perhaps 2 in 10 released products from reviews from our friends gathered here. Guys i thank you for your honest views and observations.

[gradyhappyg]

Not reflections as in you can see yourself or make it hard to see out of but enough to tell that there is glass.
Just the way I personally like them.
Keep in mind the pictures don't really show the glass very well.

596575965859659

[Barnes]

My thanks to you for those screens.

[hairyspin]

I haven't bought this aircraft yet, so all observations are from the screenshots. I'm also a wannabe modeller who's spent an obscene amount of time trying to learn this trade. Furthermore, I'm a stickler for details, accuracy, nitpicking.

Baz, that's a beautiful model! :applause::applause::applause: I love the sheer amount of detail I see in the VC, I'm always hugely impressed by accurate undercarriage, cooling gills, exhaust details, smooth modelling and FSX's bump mapping done well. I hope I can find some cash soon to enjoy the textures full size, the systems modelling, the FM and the sounds.

More power to your elbow! :icon29:

[michael davies]

closed

[dougal]

[self ban]

Now THAT'S actually quite funny:icon_lol:

Ain't ya just gotta love such maturity?

[AussieMan]

Well I must say that I am very disappointed.

I started this thread to announce that the DC-6B had been released by Just Flight. What annoys me is the fact that a couple of people who have no involvement with FSX (they only fly FS9) have hijacked this thread and turned it into a slanging match. Maybe this is because the aircraft was developed for FSX and not FS9.

Bazz has been through a lot in the last year having resureccted his business from the disaster of the Queensland when the building he was housed in was undeer water for several days. Imagine the damage to the computers and the effort of replacing them. Then to be able to come back and produce such a great model. Yes another company is producing a copy-cat aircraft and probably at a much higher price and I don't think the quality of their aircraft will be any better than than the JF model.

Roger, I think this thread has now run its course and if left open it will only just be a slanging thread and as the originator of the thread I ask you or another mod to please close it immediately.

[Dexdoggy]

Before it closes, just want to say I think I will buy this as it looks awesome!

[delta_lima]

Why close a thread that started well? We do this over and over, and we seem to not learn our lessons from the last time it happened.

Closing threads only causes gripes to be taken to yet another thread, and the cycle continues - we've all seen this. It's no deterrent to the people who engage in inane, OT, hubris - irrespective of which "side" of the issue they're on. Better that the message be that SOH will be not be held hostage to OT threadjacking.

My vote is to scrub the emotional/personal rubbish, sort out whomever needs sorting, and keep the thread on focus. There has been some good explanatory content relevant to the product in question. More importantly, it was well subject-labelled, so it'll allow for easy searching for future recall.

To all who actually contributed to helping us evaluate the merits and details of this package with respectful, thoughtful, factual analysis - my sincerest thanks. That's what SOH needs, and that's what SOH should strive to preserve. A good-looking project Baz - and thanks for your hard work. Looking forward to your future work.

DL

[gradyhappyg]

Yea not really fair to JF to close the thread because of a few negative comments.
I got the plane and think it's just fine.
So did many others.
Now if some of the more experienced painters would do a Piedmont Airlines skin I promise I won't complain about it.
I would do it but..........the paintkits a lil above this rookie painters head.

[Roger]

Well DL and Grad the thread's still open and it's open because of members, like yourselves who want it open. It would have been a great shame for JF and AH's sake to allow a very few people to close a thread like this.

[delta_lima]

Much appreciated. Not only for sake of the vendor (itself a valid legitimate reason) but also for affirming the values of the majority of our members.

Back on topic. Is there a listing of what liveries are included? Was hoping for the pre-jet Pan Am livery, as that was worn overwhelmingly longer than the included scheme. That said, I'm happy that there at least is a PAA scheme. Glad the big spinner was included - I like them so much better than the smaller spinners ... though for accuracy sake, both were used, depending on the airline and period, and so it was good that Baz modelled both.

Finally, for those who also purchased the JF Constellation - are FPS better, equal or slower? Not a factor for some folks - but I have a slow PC.

Hoping some more repainters take an interest in this model. I'm hoping for Swissair and SAS - but there are many lovely 50s and 60s schemes out there.

[michael davies]

Well DL and Grad the thread's still open and it's open because of members, like yourselves who want it open. It would have been a great shame for JF and AH's sake to allow a very few people to close a thread like this.

Roger, please be so kind to close my account and remove items from download library, seems some have very short memories.

Sincerely Michael

[Roger]

Check your pms in a few minutes Michael.

[TeaSea]

Goodness!


After all this I'm definitely going to buy the model.....(Birthday's next month)

It's really great advertisement....you can't buy this stuff.

[Henry]

Give that person a paint brush and a modeling program. That was a brilliant debate.
ifNOTWHY do i show up too late:kilroy:if ya gota complaint come sit with mein a dark room in a nursing home sitting in a wheelchairtake a number get in line:jump:yes this could have been dealt with in a lot more personable way AICH

[strykerpsg]

Roger, please be so kind to close my account and remove items from download library, seems some have very short memories.

Sincerely Michael
Holy cow, another one or is he joking? I missed something somewhere in this thread. :confused:

Matt

[Panther_99FS]

Were there not enough previews out & screenshots released prior to purchase :ques:

Whatever happened to "if you don't like what you see, don't buy it"..:ques:

[AussieMan]

Totally agree Panther.

[shackleton_boy]

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mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi; mso-fareast-language:EN-US;} </style> <![endif]--> Gents (not sure if we have a lady here?),

I have been reading this thread with some interest since it became obvious that it will end in the normal handbag-slinging match, which has become the norm here on SOH. I have to admit I am deeply disappointed in the way the moderators and admins team handled this thread. There seems to be an unwillingness to separate “friends” from the moderation job. Some members who are not even on the moderation team decided to act as if they are mods. For this exact reason, I decided not to donate to the hosting server fundraising drive.


The moment money changes hands, regardless of if it being an online “friend” or “oh it’s one of us”, the gloves come off, a fact. Once you have created the hype and expectations you are required to provide a product of a certain standard as certain expectations have been created.

I wasn’t going to post anything negative after I bought it but the reactions on SOH has made it very clear that there needs to be a more balanced view out there.

If a client has bought a product and he/she is unhappy with it they have every right to complain in open an open forum. A member even went as far as to make a schematic drawing to show where the errors are and how to correct it. This product has been marketed on the JF website as the best thing since sliced bread. I am sorry to say it is not. Most of the switches do not work, the VC is a little cartoonish w.r.t the texturing, the landing lights animation is extremely fast etc. etc. etc.


Developers like Carenado and Realair (I am not talking about PMDG as they are in a class of their own) has set the bar very high. Sure the Carenado flight models are not always spot on but their modelling is superb.

Anyway – that is just my 2 cents worth.

[stovall]

Could we please get back to some positive aspects regarding the DC6. This is a good thread for evaluation and I believe that was the original purpose. Those that have purchase this great aircraft, could you please post more screen shots to help those making a decision. Those that don't want to purchase please visit another thread with another topic. As Panther mentions above, "if you don't like what you see", move on.

[Panther_99FS]

If you look at simming as a whole,
I'm just glad Microsoft has stayed the course (whether you like Flight or not) since pretty much everyone else has dropped off the face of the planet in terms of flight simming.......No more Sierra, Microprose, Janes, Dynamix, ....

And there was the Mike Stone saga that IMHO, was simply unbelieveable....

Point is: When the freeware folks are driven away, there is a problem.

[Panther_99FS]

Forgot to add one last thing per payware....
There is a bit of "Darwinism" in the FS community......Some of the "sub-par" payware products that I have in my "archives" are from developers who are non-existent. Yes there is an order (or tier) to things in our FS-land and we all know roughly what it is. If it's from Just Flight, I know pretty much what I'm going to get. If it's from RealAirSimulations, I know pretty much what to expect.

Problem with being online is delivery of the message. All of us (including) myself have screwed this up at one point or another. And it is precisely because of the lack audio cues and body language (that we lack online) that we should be a bit more thorough in how we present ourselves. This might help a lot.:mixedsmi:

Important thing is to have fun!

[AussieMan]

Mods, once again I am asking you to get this thread back to what I intended it to be. A thread notifying peoplke of the release of this great aeroplane. If you cannot do this then please unsticky it, close it or DELETE it.

In future If I get an email about a product release and it hasn't been posted here then I will quietly buy the product and keep my mouth shut. I have stopped posting on the ORBX forums for the same reason. I am very disappointed at the way this thread has gone south and the slack attitude of the mods by allowing it to remain open for more abuse.

[ErnstF]

For me, flight simulation is foremost immersion, fun and a hobby. And I`m having a helluva fun with the DC-6 from Just Flight :icon_lol: .

59689 59690 59691 5969259693

[strykerpsg]

There was mention of an expansion pack....didn't see it at Just Flight. Anyone know what it will contain?

Matt

Disregard, found it. Looked over it the first time.

http://justflight.com/developProduct.asp?pid=934

[shackleton_boy]

Pat,

I am sorry to say but every consumer has the right to slate/complain about a product they have spent money on and feel that it doesn't live up to what was promised. Irrespective of why you opened the thread it will be used by users for various issues with regards to the JF DC6. At the moment the biggest issue for some users is the quality of the VC and some of the textures. For me the biggest issue is lack of functionality on most of the switches etc. Perhaps Panther (we havent seen a good "panthering" screen shot in a while) is right - talk with your wallet?

[Martyn]

Customers are certainly welcome to complain about products that they have purchased from us, but complaints are far more effective as constructive criticism sent directly to us - that kind of feedback allows us to keep improving our offerings. We are not producing aircraft to the same level as groups like PMDG as that simply isn't a viable business model for us and I think the majority of simmers appreciate that. However we do our best to produce an offering that is of high quality, meets the expectations of our customer base (most of which don't desire ultra-pro products, believe it or not) and is good value for money. Our product pages clearly show our offering, detailing the functionality and showing what it looks like (screenshots and videos) so hopefully those that decide its not the product for them will stay clear and spend their hard earned money on something more suitable to their requirements.

Please don't forgot that we are happy to offer a full refund if you are not satisfied with a product that you have purchased from us. We have no interest in leaving customers feeling disappointed. We have been operating now for 17 years and didn't get to this point by neglecting our followers :salute:

Thanks for all the comments so far - good and bad.

Martyn
JF

[CWOJackson]

Customers are certainly welcome to complain about products that they have purchased from us, but complaints are far more effective as constructive criticism sent directly to us - that kind of feedback allows us to keep improving our offerings. We are not producing aircraft to the same level as groups like PMDG as that simply isn't a viable business model for us and I think the majority of simmers appreciate that. However we do our best to produce an offering that is of high quality, meets the expectations of our customer base (most of which don't desire ultra-pro products, believe it or not) and is good value for money. Our product pages clearly show our offering, detailing the functionality and showing what it looks like (screenshots and videos) so hopefully those that decide its not the product for them will stay clear and spend their hard earned money on something more suitable to their requirements.

Please don't forgot that we are happy to offer a full refund if you are not satisfied with a product that you have purchased from us. We have no interest in leaving customers feeling disappointed. We have been operating now for 17 years and didn't get to this point by neglecting our followers :salute:

Thanks for all the comments so far - good and bad.

Martyn
JF

Those are the "rivets" that I count. The customer experience often reflects my decision on whether to purchase a product or not.

Regardless of how good a product looks, you just don't know until you purchase it. Now if I've bought something that didn't meet my expectations, but the vendor was open/honest in response, I come away from that purchase with a positive feeling. On the other hand, if I purchase something I do like, but receive poor customer support during the life of that product, I come away with a negative feeling. When I consider a future purchase, those feelings impact my decision more then some screen shots.

For me, I usually tend to avoid products that require activation. I do not begrudge developers the desire to protect their products, but when I periodically clean-out FSX like many people do, going through the re-activation hassle is a headache...particularly when I know that the thieves don't have such headaches. So I'm far less likely to make an impulse purchase of such a product....I've REALLY got to want it.

[stovall]

Time to give the DC6 a fresh start. I am opening a new thread for those who have purchased the product and want to compare notes. It will also be for those thinking about buying or not. This thread is closed.