Just a parting note

[falcon409]

lol, well taking a cue from Wombat, I posted my feeling about Orbx's New 2012 Business Model on the proper forum at Orbx, specifically to note the customer relationship portion. After posting the remarks, it was answered by a "Senior" member, whose response was "Yawn". . . . .then Venema responded simply to inform me that I had spelled the name of his company wrong, after which he locked the thread.

lol, there are a lot of things I could say, but I won't. My respect and admiration for the designers is unwavering, the product is the best that the Flightsim community has ever seen and my decision to no longer support Orbx is only hurting me in the long run, I'm done with them.:salute:

[Francois]

Good. Two down.. more to follow I am sure. Great developers, bad business acumen and anti-social behaviour. You were only locked though, not banned !? He must like you :icon_lol::icon_lol:

[OleBoy]

Such is the case, Falcon. My thoughts are with yours. I bought two Orbx products. All I actually needed was PNW. I couldn't care any less to have airports from all over the PNW anyway. I don't spend my time sleeping at them like a tarmac vagrant.

All I ever saw in their company was an enhanced Ultimate Terrain product

[Gibbage]

Im sorry, did I miss some big stink over at OrbX?

Before you reply, please PM me. The mods around here have a pritty strict policy (that I agree with) about trashing the name of dev's on threads.

Overall im really impressed with OrbX's stuff. Loved there products, but I have not had to deal with support or there customer service. I think that if the product works, and you like it, then you wont need to deal with those two aspects of a company. The problem lies in the few that DO need support or CS, do so at there worst times.

I have worked a lot of CS in the past (PC repair) and have had to field off MANY angry phone calls/E-mails. You really REALLY need a thick skin to do that job, since all day you hear the worst of humanity. It can get under your skin and if you dont know how to deal with it properly, you can lash out in un-expected ways against people who do not deserv it. This can lead to some very unpleasent results, and a prime example of that happened last week on Penny Arcade.

Some people here dont know Penny Arcade, but its one of the biggest video game related web pages on the web.

Anyways, LONG story short, a customer asked were his product was, and got a very rude response from a marketing rep. That E-mail was sent to Penny Arcade, and they told the marketing rep to back off. CS Rep dug in even deeper and lashed out at Penny Arcade. Penny Arcade posted this to there MILLIONS of loyal viewers. Result = fired marketing rep.

You can read the exchange HERE ****WARNING!!! NOT SAFE FOR WORK, OR KIDS, OR HUMANS IN FACT!!!****** http://penny-arcade.com/2011/12/27

The lesson learned is simple. Treat every customer with respect, no matter what. You never know who your talking with...

[Roger]

Ed's reporting is factual and civil...as long as it stays that way it won't get closed.

[Bone]

Whew! When I saw the forum thread title, I thought you you were going tell us all that you were hanging up SOH. I'm glad it's just ORBX you're dumping, lol.
.:icon29:

[Mithrin]

It makes me wonder to how many people this has happened. People who didn't decide to post about their bad experience. To be honest I never believed the stories about people being treated badly. I guess the best way to find out was to learn for myself.

Onwards we go though. There's some awesome scenery out there that isn't Orbx.

Also I fully agree with you Ed. I think the developers are really good at what they do. They really do produce some high quality products.

[OleBoy]

I commend, and respect all of the actual developers who create the scenery that is released by this company. The developers are the ones who make orbx what it is. Not the person/people doing the marketing.

[jp]

After reading your post, I headed over to Orbx to check out what was going on. I agree with your decision to no longer support the company. Though I have never purchased any of their products, I have looked at, and been considering several. After reading their response to customer concerns, I too have decided they will not have my business. Customer service is very important.

Jp

[stiz]

i'm sure i've missed something, whats all the hubub about orbx haveing a christmas week discount on everything they've done? :isadizzy:

[AussieMan]

Maybe I will be the odd man out here but I am actually speaking out in support of ORBX. Falcon got the *** YAWN *** not from a senior admin but from a forum member who, like me had grown tired of people constantly starting threads regarding the 2012 policy that ORBX was embarking on. These threads quickly became abusive and were therefore locked. What the Admins did in Falcon's case was to prevent this happening again. While the SOH admins are reasonably tolerant when a thread looks like becoming abusive they lock it. ORBX has a zero tolerance policy to abuse and that is why I enjoy posting there. I may not agree with some things posted on the ORBX forums but it is the same with me here at SOH, but that is life.

In previous years ORBX had a pre-pay policy where if you had pre-paid for an item they you got access to that scenery item 24 hours before it was released to the general market. A great sales policy so we thought, but because of time differences around the world some customers still missed out. so ORBX then introduced a system where if you prepaid you received a 15% discount. As in past years ORBX (like a lot of companies) had a post Christmas sale with prices between 20% and 50% off their products. This year was 33% off ALL ORBX products.

Because some products in this sale had been released during December one customer started a thread complaining about the newly released products being included as he had prepaid for them several weeks before they were released. This thread quickly became abusive, directing vitriol towards Mr Venema who promptly locked the thread. So, instead of releasing the company's 2012 policy early in the New Year he released it this week. The original posting of the policy included the reference to the "Online dating agency" but he editied the post and removed the offending statement. This lead to a series of threads being started regarding the policy and were allowed to run their course until some of the posts became abusive and were locked.

In Falcon's case I believe that the reaction and the locking of the thread was pre-emptive. I know I am getting tired of people on the ORBX forums constantly starting threads that quickly head south and become abusive and even though John and I have locked horns in the past I admire John and the admins for the action they are taking.

ORBX, like SOH is a well moderated site and that is why I enjoy being there as well as being a member here.

That is my say on this. I will now return to normal programming :)

[AussieMan]

i'm sure i've missed something, whats all the hubub about orbx haveing a christmas week discount on everything they've done? :isadizzy:

ORBX have a post Christmas sale on ALL of their products each year. In the past discounts have been between 20% and 50%. This year it is 33%. I have taken advantage of these sales each year, this one included and done well out of them.

[peter12213]

Whew! When I saw the forum thread title, I thought you you were going tell us all that you were hanging up SOH. I'm glad it's just ORBX you're dumping, lol.
.:icon29:

Same, exactly what I thought!

[Phantom88]

Well,You left out the part where John called his loyal customers who pre-pay for his products 2 months in advance ungrateful and selfish.

[Gibbage]

ORBX have a post Christmas sale on ALL of their products each year. In the past discounts have been between 20% and 50%. This year it is 33%. I have taken advantage of these sales each year, this one included and done well out of them.

It seems to me people who paid full price are not happy that others paid less? Im still having trouble understanding the underline issue. I do understand the pre-emptive locking though, and if those threads in the past got out of hand, I think it was a good call.

Still a little confused over the blow-up... :isadizzy:

[spotlope]

It seems to me people who paid full price are not happy that others paid less? Im still having trouble understanding the underline issue. I do understand the pre-emptive locking though, and if those threads in the past got out of hand, I think it was a good call.

Still a little confused over the blow-up... :isadizzy:

It's even better than that, Kevin. People who got 15% off are pissed that some others who waited got 33% off. Note that both of these groups got a good deal, so it's hard to see how anyone was ripped off here.

I've been told by mgmt not to come out swinging in Orbx's defense on other forums, so I'll just leave it at this: it's a messed up world we live in when people get all bent out of shape over something as trivial and idiotic as this. I guess we can all be thankful that this is the worst of our problems, huh?

That's all I've got. :running:

[falcon409]

Whew! When I saw the forum thread title, I thought you you were going tell us all that you were hanging up SOH. I'm glad it's just ORBX you're dumping, lol.
.:icon29:
LOL:salute:

[jojohnson9]

lol, well taking a cue from Wombat, I posted my feeling about Orbx's New 2012 Business Model on the proper forum at Orbx, specifically to note the customer relationship portion. After posting the remarks, it was answered by a "Senior" member, whose response was "Yawn". . . . .then Venema responded simply to inform me that I had spelled the name of his company wrong, after which he locked the thread.

lol, there are a lot of things I could say, but I won't. My respect and admiration for the designers is unwavering, the product is the best that the Flightsim community has ever seen and my decision to no longer support Orbx is only hurting me in the long run, I'm done with them.:salute:

I was waiting for the January 1 Navy pension check to buy some of the Orbx great scenery. After reading this thread, I won't be buying anything from them. I have always found Falcon's posts to be very helpful in dealing with FltSim problems. He is always calm and reasonable. For Orbx to treat him (or anyone) so poorly, they will never get any of my dollars.

[jp]

Mabye I am off track here, but the issue is customer service and attitude towards costumers? Relating to the sale, I think the issue was aggressive advertisement for the 15% sale, followed by the 33% sale.... Also, the way that mods handled legitimate complaints about the company's new business model was a factor. Contributing to this was the unveiling of a new company motto, around which the business plan was to be centered, something to the effect of "we are here to sell our product, not to have a relationship with the customer". Based on reading other threads in the forum, the Admins/ company members seem to have little respect for their customers, and answer most of the recent threads, especially threads about the refinement of company and consumer interactions, with smart a$$ answers, and then lock them.

Jp

[OleBoy]

Well stated JP. Back on track.

[Panther_99FS]

Man....
What has happened to my beloved hobby since I left :ques:

I've never seen these levels of agitation......:monkies:

[greenie]

Hi Gibbage , here's my version !!
My second post and last about this as a die hard Orbx supporter and poster from before their first release.
With the count down of their prepay of 15% discount..2 days to go , one day to go etc I stretched my my christmas money to buy these. I can ill afford to do so . Ok ,then to turn around and find with that sale finished it seemed to go into an immediate next day or two 33% off. Talk about being miffed ! I think I never felt so angry they have never included new releases in such a sale , certainly not so quickly after a release.

Naturaly a lot of people were angered and many a good comment made all now deleted, but it just got worse by the comments made by the CEO. i.e. the internet dating place etc, not about the community etc . All rather disappionting considering you have a forum geared for community meeting ..General forum, pilots lounge. even a thread to post your photo of yourself, your screenshots not to mention a flying club etc.

All in all a bloody mess. I will not say that I will never buy another Orbx but I will say it will not be for some time and be a lot more selective in what I buy .
Some days later and I have cooled down I still have a bad taste in my mouth over the whole sorry affair
Something has changed, unfortunately.
As said ,this is my last comment on the issue and as the the new year approaches my simming is taking on a new direction.

[Gibbage]

I personally cant get involved. I try to stay out of other dev's biz. It makes me look bad if I stick my nose in, but I just wanted to know the root of the cause. I now have a fair understanding due to a nice PM.

As for the sale thing, I can understand how some people would feel a little jipped, but this ALWAYS happens. People who wait get a better deal, and the people who didnt feel jipped. Some companies make it right, some dont, but I dont think its fair to expect every company to play by the same set of rules.

Keep it civil though. I really love these forums because they are not only open, but civil and I think the mods do a great job keeping the peace, even if I have found myself on there bad side a few times ;)


It's even better than that, Kevin. People who got 15% off are pissed that some others who waited got 33% off. Note that both of these groups got a good deal, so it's hard to see how anyone was ripped off here.

I've been told by mgmt not to come out swinging in Orbx's defense on other forums, so I'll just leave it at this: it's a messed up world we live in when people get all bent out of shape over something as trivial and idiotic as this. I guess we can all be thankful that this is the worst of our problems, huh?

That's all I've got. :running:

[N2056]

Guys, I gotta be honest here. What I see is a continuation of the other thread in which it was already stated that the horse is dead. At some point you are going to have to move on. That point is close at hand on both threads. :kilroy:

[Francois]

it's a messed up world we live in when people get all bent out of shape over something as trivial and idiotic as this. I guess we can all be thankful that this is the worst of our problems, huh?



And then again, some people get all worked up over being stabbed in the back by people they trusted and helped all along...... silly of course, I know. :icon_lol:

There's always two sides to a coin. At Orbucks only ONE side is allowed to partake.

Now, back to my own forums too..... bye bye :wavey:

[jeansy]

Good. Two down.. more to follow I am sure. Great developers, bad business acumen and anti-social behaviour. You were only locked though, not banned !? He must like you :icon_lol::icon_lol:

agree, you got off light,

oh well easy come easy go, im glad im not some of the others who have bought more than me with a left with a bad taste in their mouth not to mention a big hole in their wallet

the way i see it, there will be another dev down the track with bigger and better stuff, its always happened through FS no one is king of the castle for ever

[Dain Arns]

In my personal opinion, I feel their products are overpriced for what is provided.
I strongly feel the quality and lack of detail has been waning in the latest large scenery area releases to the point that what the customer expects or desires is no longer important.

And as many others have stated, I have had nothing but negative experiences with this company as well, especially in regards to customer service.
Most of those responses were uncalled for and very unprofessional, this from staff and senior developers alike.
Completely unprovoked attacks is the best description.
Since many customers have been treated in a similar fashion, I will not support Orbx anymore, either.

Good day.

[Mithrin]

Guys, I gotta be honest here. What I see is a continuation of the other thread in which it was already stated that the horse is dead. At some point you are going to have to move on. That point is close at hand on both threads. :kilroy:

I do understand what you are saying and if I wasn't involved in this I'd probably feel the same way but please do realize that for the people involved this is kind of their way to speak up after being shut down at Orbx. It's almost therapeutic. :icon_lol: So please moderators consider that before locking this because it got old to anyone not involved.

[napamule]

No matter if you 'like' John or not, he has my resprect as a pioneer and hard working developer for FSX. He earned his stripes. Read his bio at:
http://www.simpilotnet.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=13&Itemid=62 . He is one of a kind. A 'Wise Guy'? Crude? Rude? Maybe. But that's John. At least he is 'real' and an honest person.
Chuck B
Napamule

[AussieMan]

No matter if you 'like' John or not, he has my resprect as a pioneer and hard working developer for FSX. He earned his stripes. Read his bio at:
http://www.simpilotnet.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=13&Itemid=62 . He is one of a kind. A 'Wise Guy'? Crude? Rude? Maybe. But that's John. At least he is 'real' and an honest person.
Chuck B
Napamule

Totally agree with you Chuck. I have only had a couple of small hiccups with my ORBX products and have never had a problem with customer service. All it has taken is a polite email to the FSS or a polite posting on the forums and I got the help I needed. Maybe it is an age thing where in the days when I was a youngster manners and politeness were a necessity unlike todays bull-at-a-gate attitude some people have. Patience is a virtue a lot of people seem to lack and demand answers as soon as their question is posted.

Oh and by the way I am 65 so have seen a lot of things change over the years.

[falcon409]

Folks I've had my say, made my decision and life goes on. Think of me what you like, I'm also 65(almost) and old enough to make my own decisions, idiotic or not. I've earned that right. Let's move on.:salute:

[Roger]

I think you're right Ed.