Zero anybody?

[bazzar]

Something a little different.:engel016:

[Roger]

Yes please:jump:

[stiz]

looks great!! guess those no-sleep pills are working? :icon_lol:

[Astoroth]

YESSSS!!!

[MDIvey]

FSX Native Zero... Long over due Barry

KR Matt

[bazzar]

Well there's a bit of work to go as you've probably noticed from the gauge placeholders but learning Japanese to do the gauges is a new one for us!:engel016:

[AussieMan]

Nice work Bazz.

[Pips]

Jumping Jehosaphat! All my christmases are coming at once! :jump:

[Daube]

That a cool plane !
I miss the CFS2 default one so much...

[roger-wilco-66]

Beautiful! Love the weathering. Credit card is ready.

Cheers,
Mark

[mal998]

Wow...that is Nice!

[Flame-Prop]

All hail the creator of that Zero:icon29::applause: I would love love one

[crashaz]

OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:jump::jump::jump::jump::jump::ju mp::jump:

This is indeed Aeroplane Heaven!!!

This plane is at the top of the must buy list!!

[robert41]

Looking good.

[Ian Warren]

:icon_lol:Looks like a Harvard to me :mixedsmi: ........ Ooohps been so long and watching TORA TORA TORA and a little to much of the Battle of Midway :running:

[PRB]

We neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed a Zeke! This one looks nice indeed! WhooHoo!

[Yossarian1943]

Yeeeeeehhhhhaaaaaaaaa!!!!!! :jump:

[fliger747]

Looks great, the zeke is a classic aircraft, and a barrel of fun to fly unless ya are in a floc of hellcats...

T

[Piglet]

WOW! More Japanese stuff! Any chance of a A6M3 Hamp version? My fave version:applause:

[bazzar]

We're just concentrating on this one for now, though, you never know...:engel016:

[Pips]

We're just concentrating on this one for now

I'm happy with that! Focus, focus! :icon_lol:

[huub vink]

Nice looking model!

Huub

[Ferry_vO]

Looks great Bazz! :applause:

[Helldiver]

A marvelous rendition of a spectacular aircraft. With limited resouces Japan produced an airplane that was a match for what our Navy had. It's suprising to me that all the emphasis is on the European theatre, which was fought in an area about the size as the state of Montana.
The Pacific theatre had the whole of the South Pacific and was bigger that the U.S. Yet F6-F Hellcats kill rate were more than 1000 shot down then that of the P-51. I hope that there is more of an emphasis on the Paciafic theater and the planes that flew in it. The war was longer and more violent than that of the European. With a population of 105 mllion. Japan was a more formidible foe than Germany, with only 76 million.

[SkippyBing]

The war was longer and more violent than that of the European.

Depends if you turn up for the first half or not.

[TeaSea]

A marvelous rendition of a spectacular aircraft. With limited resouces Japan produced an airplane that was a match for what our Navy had. It's suprising to me that all the emphasis is on the European theatre, which was fought in an area about the size as the state of Montana.
The Pacific theatre had the whole of the South Pacific and was bigger that the U.S. Yet F6-F Hellcats kill rate were more than 1000 shot down then that of the P-51. I hope that there is more of an emphasis on the Paciafic theater and the planes that flew in it. The war was longer and more violent than that of the European. With a population of 105 mllion. Japan was a more formidible foe than Germany, with only 76 million.

Helldiver,

Since most Americans are of European descent, it's natural that we tend to face that way in our interests, and our European friends simply so because they live in that theater. Your point on the Hellcat is well made though. I could be wrong, but I believe the Hellcat owns the distinction of being the allied planed that downed more enemy planes than any other single fighter design, which would include both the Spitfire, Corsair, and Mustang. Great design obviously, but also the nature of the combat when it was introduced.

Someone check me on that, but I think I'm correct.

This model looks fantastic and could start a resurgence in WWII PTO Japanese aircraft which, as you pointed out, been overlooked a bit.

[fliger747]

It's arguable that WWII started in China well before the goings on in Europe. It is becoming increasingly arguable that most "Americans" are no longer of European descent....

I personally have always been interested in the PTO since my father served there during the war as a Naval Officer. BTW, heading out this afternoon for Korea, Okinawa and Guam, places my dad would remember well.

Glad to see Baz & Company working on this one, and for them being busy again after the great flood.

Cheers: Tom

[crashaz]

ROFL!!! What is this.... The CFS 2 forum? Sounds like the good ol' days.....

My kind of argument. :icon_lol:

Here is a discussion of most enemy planes shot down by type.
http://www.ww2aircraft.net/forum/aviation/us-wwii-fighter-shot-down-most-enemy-aircraft-30227.html

[stiz]

This model looks fantastic and could start a resurgence in WWII PTO Japanese aircraft which, as you pointed out, been overlooked a bit.

i've always wanted a good betty, however any dev would prolly have to know/learn japenese to do it right! :isadizzy:

[Helldiver]

It was stated that there was 6,098 shot down by heavy bombers. I have no way to contest it. Maybe they had a better platform than I had. All I could do is to fire in the general direction that the aircarft was in. My reaction time wouldn't keep up with the attacker. They go by much, much too fast. They don't hang around like the do in the movies. So all you can do is to put out enough lead in hopes that they fly into it. I think that in a large bomber formation, an enemy plane will get hit and there are probably 16 gunners take the credit. Along with a P-51.

[Pips]

In case anyone's interested, here are the 'claims' credited to various US types (air combat only).

P-51: 5,246 (Europe 4,950; Pacific 296) - kill ratio 11:1
F6F: 5,216 (USN 5,156; FAA 60) - kill ratio 19:1
P-47: 4,449 (Europe 3,752; Pacific 697) - kill ratio 5.2:1
P-38: 3,744 (Europe 2,050; Pacific 1,694) - kill ration 5.4:1
P-40: 3,551 (US Med 378; US Pac 655; CBI 973; Flying Tigers 297; RAF Med 845; RAAF Med 282; RAAF Pac 121) - kill ratio 2.8:1
F4U: 2,241 (USN/USMC 2,140; FAA 101) - kill ratio 11.3:1
F4F/FM: 1,327 (USN 1,006; FAA 321) - kill ratio 6.9:1
P-39: 243 - kill ratio 0.85:1


Note 1: Europe figure also covers the Med and Italy
Note 2: Claims by P-40's in VVS service unknown
Note 3: The claims for the P-39 only cover the Pacific. Med claims unknown, VVS claims unknown

Sources:
Naval Aviation Combat Statistics - World War II. By S.B. Barber
Barrett Tillman -various books
Flight Journal Issue February 2001
American War Planes of WWII. By David Donald

[TeaSea]

It's arguable that WWII started in China well before the goings on in Europe. It is becoming increasingly arguable that most "Americans" are no longer of European descent....



Cheers: Tom

No Tom, with all due respect it is not arguable -- It's fact.

http://2010.census.gov/2010census/data/

While we celebrate "diversity"....most people that occupy the North American continent are descendant from Europeans. I don't assert this to offend, but you're either Indo-European, Native American, African, or Asian. Most likely you're a mix (as I am) but mostly, you're Indo-European if you live in the Continental United states.

I would admit that this does not necessarily imply a particular interest in the ETO vs. PTO, but I think it's natural given the demographics of WWII in the U.S. and the demographics today. I would also add that I think there's a particularly nasty race issue in the PTO (on both sides) that does not appear in the ETO. My own opinion obviously.

Sorry, but I couldn't let your assertion go unchallenged. It's always a good idea to remember who we really are, versus who others say we are.

I also want to thank Pips....my assertion was incorrect, but I think the F6F does not get full credit for it's kills over other more "romantic" designs. I don't think anyone would call the F6F a beauty queen, but it certainly seemed to get the job done.

Either way, I can't wait to get my Indo-European butt into this little virtual Zeke.

[Murray Cod]

i especially like the 1st screenie. well done.

[Pips]

I also want to thank Pips....my assertion was incorrect, but I think the F6F does not get full credit for it's kills over other more "romantic" designs. I don't think anyone would call the F6F a beauty queen, but it certainly seemed to get the job done.


To be fair TeaSea, if you don't count the Pacific claims of the P-51 (flying from Iwo Jima) then the F6F was the highest scoring aircraft that the US fielded. And in most books only direct comparison's between the P-51 in Europe v's the F6F in the Pacific are usually noted. Certainly the F6F dominated air combat in the Pacific to a greater degree than P-51 did in Europe.

[Cag40Navy]

Hey Bazzer, Thank you!!!!
(Now im going to bed with the possibility of a Zero Floats Variant....)

[DennyBoy]

Hi !

A good companion to A2A´s Zero type 52

DennyBoy

[Stickshaker]

Looks excellent, Baz! Hopefully there will one time be a Japanese carrier to match.

[roger-wilco-66]

Hey Bazzer, Thank you!!!!
(Now im going to bed with the possibility of a Zero Floats Variant....)

Exactly, a A6M2-N Rufe would be a great follow-up to a standard Zero!

Cheers,
Mark

[fliger747]

A fabulous set of Japanese Carriers (as well as US) was done for FS9, in both Coral Sea and Midway scenario locations. Wish we could get those in FSX!!

The reason the fighting in China might be arguable as the start for some is that at the time it was a Sino-Japanese conflict only. The German-Euro-British conflict was officially unrelated till the trade sanctions the US had on Japan as a result of the China activities tilted the Empire to launch hostilities. Hitler need not have declared war on the US, as there was little enthuiasm in the US (at the time) to get involved in another european conflict. Americans tend to know little of even recent Chinese History. I spend a lot of time there and have good friends who were greatly affected by the cultural revolution.

My antecedent after whom I am named came to America in 1720 from a small island off the coast of Normandy, I have his sons poweder horn from the French and Indan War. They are all burried in the old mechanics Cemetary in Westfield Mass. My countries demographics are changing, though the cultural outlook and legal system retain their origins. Diversity has been a strength, I hope that it shall remain so and not a liability.

Cheers from Osan Korea: T

[TeaSea]

I think that's a good point on the Sino-Chinese conflict becoming the PTO. I also think that the very size of the theater and reporting on it made some difference. Ernie Pyle went to the ETO originally because it was easier. Getting around the PTO was difficult, getting stories back more so, and as a result.....lot less documentation. Lot less documentation means less printed history.

Don't know, but I can't help but think there was an impact.....

Even now most Americans don't know there was a war in the Aleutians and that the Japanese actually stood on American soil.

Which takes us back to the Zeke.....because the capture of one in the Aleutians led to the F6F!

[trucker17]

Something a little different.:engel016:
Vertigo studios is planning on building an A6M for flight sim X, and possibly the Jap Raiden as well.....Other planes being worked on now are, the mosquito, and B-25 Mitchell for FSX.....
I just took some picts of the Zero at the planes of fame museum....It is the worlds only pre 1945 jap aircraft of its type that is still flyable, and complete with its original prop, engine, and guages.....

Their web is.... http://www.vertigostudios.co.uk/

[P38man]

We're just concentrating on this one for now, though, you never know...:engel016:

Please excuse my ignorance but which company are guys from ?

Could you please provide a link? Cheers.

[bazzar]

We're www.aeroplaneheaven.com
The site is well due a revamp so don't look too close! It's just dried out from the floods...:engel016:

[P38man]

OKdoki thanks....will add you to my shortlist of FSX developers!

I love warbirds !

[Helldiver]

Counter to Fligers statements, we Americans were well advised on the situation in China. The Invasion of Manchuria, the Scorched Earth policy, the sinking of the USS Panay, the Rape of Nanking in 1937, along with many other atrocities led to Chennaults Flying Tigers. Plus we were all well aware that the Japanese had invaded Attu. We lost a lot of brave US Army men in clearing the Japs out.
Yes we were isolationists but at our CCC camps they were taught miltary discipline and even in the Boy Scouts we drilled with rifles and learned the manual of arms. So we knew war was coming.
My family came to this country in 1638 from Norfolk in England and we were all WASPs until this generation. We founded Falmouth, MA Exeter, NH,and New Durham, NH. We also had a General in Washington's Army.

[fliger747]

Our Government was indeed aware of China, which is why we imposed the sanctions on Japan that led to their opening of hostilities against the Western Powers. However to this day I am not sure that more than 51% of Americans can find China on a map.... Certainly very few know of the some 50 million Chinese that died as a result of the Cultural Revolution, as many as died of all causes during WWII. Mao topped the excesses of Hitler and Stalin by a wide margin. Not till Zho EnLai (Sp?) did China start on a road to growth and improvement.

Koga's Zero, which crashed on Akutan Island near Dutch Harbor lost oil from a severed oil line, supposedly from fire from a PBY. Koga set down on what he thought was a grassy field, with the gear down. The sedge tussocks have 18" crevices between them and the plane immediatly flipped over killing PO Koga. The F6F was already well under way by that time, but what the test flying did reveal was the Zeros weaknesses and tactics were developed to exploit the F6F's strong points. Additional attention was paid to the ailerons to further exploit F6F strengths.

Probably my sized plane... would be a hoot to fly!

Cheers: T

[crashaz]

Yeah when I saw this thread I did some searching and found Kaga in a 3DMAX project.... all 6 Kido Butai carriers are in various states of build as I started from scratch to make more use of poly budget. Eventually I will move Pearl Harbor Project over to FSX as well.

Might pull out Kaga to finish out to celebrate the release of this aircraft.:wavey:

[Sundog]

Our Government was indeed aware of China, which is why we imposed the sanctions on Japan that led to their opening of hostilities against the Western Powers. However to this day I am not sure that more than 51% of Americans can find China on a map.... Certainly very few know of the some 50 million Chinese that died as a result of the Cultural Revolution, as many as died of all causes during WWII. Mao topped the excesses of Hitler and Stalin by a wide margin. Not till Zho EnLai (Sp?) did China start on a road to growth and improvement.

Cheers: T

I can definitely find it. My Great Aunt, long since passed on, was a missionary in China when the Japanese invaded. She spent about eight years in a Japanese POW camp. She had some stories to tell.

She went to Japan in about 1950 to teach English. She didn't believe anyone is inherently evil and greatly enjoyed her time spent living in postwar Japan.

Needless to say, I'm definitely looking forward to this Zeke.

[MHAircraft]

I think it's safe to say that, among all participants in WW2, China and Japan were the first to slug it out. The two were officially at war as of 1937.

Back to the topic, the Zero made its combat debut over China in 1940, and totally outclassed all existing Chinese fighters. During the first engagement, 13 Chinese fighters were shot down, and another 11 damaged. The Zeroes suffered no loss.

[beana51]

Looks like a HUGHES H-1..racer,when Howard was breaking records in 1937,I would think the Japanese then were looking for great designs.In ships ,Subs,and Planes....I would think this RACER got a good LOOK SEE...<label for="rb_iconid_24">http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/images/icons/icon23.gif</label>

http://i1126.photobucket.com/albums/l609/beana51/screenshot1086.jpg

[Helldiver]

The Hughes Racer had little resemblance to the Zero, it being quite smaller. A closer bet would be the Vultee Vengence P-66.
Although I'm convinced that the Zero was a native Mitsubishi design. It may have been inflenced by existing designs, such as the guns in the cowling. Something that was shared by the P-66. But the Zero was defintely their own


53282

[Bomber_12th]

When you read up on all of the requirements that were outlined in the original contract that Mitsubishi competed for that led to the development and production of the A6M, it is absolutely incredible that anyone could design a single aircraft that would fulfill every one of them.

Those that work on the original airwrothy example, powered by the original powerplant, at the Planes of Fame Air Museum, are always quick to want to point out how great the engineering minds of the Japanese that designed both the aircraft, and the powerplants, were, wishing to try and correct the philosophy that remains, of the aircraft, and the engine, simply being direct copies of existing American designs.

It was amazing to see this example flying, in-person, last year, which is an original A6M2 airframe (though mostly a new-build to original spec - quite simply a work-of-art to behold). After completing a high-speed pass right down the length of the runway, I don't know if I have ever seen an aircraft that looked better, simply flying. It is a wonderfully sleak design, with the gear up, that I don't is as well captured in any photograph or video as it is seeing it in-person. http://www.airliners.net/photo/Mitsubishi-A6M2-Model/1803862/L/&sid=7c1611ecdb154455ae69d6d5ecb3f6ac

[beana51]

I would think yer correct Helldiver,as we both know ,in those years ,it was hard to give credit where credit was due.but after all these years,the facts do emerge.
For a long time,the theory put out was that the VOUGHT V-141,was somehow instrumental in the Zero development...Some still believe that.


The Vought V-141 (which was later redesignated V-143 after modification) was a prototype American single-seat fighter aircraft (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighter_aircraft) of the 1930s. It was a development of the unsucessful Northrop 3-A (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northrop_XFT) design, but was itself a failure, being rejected by the United States Army Air Corps (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army_Air_Corps). The sole prototype was sold to the Japanese Army in 1937, but no production followed, with the type proving to be inferior to existing Japanese fighters.

. Although it was later to be widely alleged that the Mitsubishi A6M Zero-Sen (http://www.aviastar.org/air/japan/mitsu_zero.php) was based on the V-143, there was no truth in such allegations, although Vought's method of undercarriage retraction provided the inspiration for that of the Japanese fighter.




Who knows??..Mabey the landing gear,could be the only connection.....Of course we know,the ZERO,a fine machine,that it was,placed no real value on its pilots safety..this in the armaments.to protect the pilots!..The maneuverability was the trade off I guess!..But then the "CATS" came along!The OLD" MEATBALL" was something!....Regards..Vin!!

[Helldiver]

The Vought V-141 resembles the Zero as muh as the Hughes Racer. From it's semi-gull wing to its out wards folding landing gear. Since they were concieved only a`couple of months apart. I don't believe the people at Nor53298throp had Japanese looking over their shoulders.

[fliger747]

What is amazing is that the US was surprised by the Zero, we shouldn't have been as appropriate intilegence reports mouldered in the files. Probably what saved the USN was the fine gunnery skills and emphisis on deflection shooting.... and teamwork. The Zero was a fine aeronautical achievement, and like all brilliant designs built on solid technology of the day.

Thanks Baz!


T

[beana51]

Yes ,fliger747,...what was reported some Japanese said at Pearl Harbor?....“I fear that we have awakened a sleeping giant
and filled him with a terrible resolve.”Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto
Empire of Japan
December 7th, 1941

In the 30s we were in a Great Depression.....Before the Pearl Harbor attack there were some 120,000 American soldiers.,these looking for a job,clothes,and boots, three squares,for many had none! a rag tag military!At the end of the war the USA had about 16 million under arms (most of them reservists); about 4 million Americans were in (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_soldiers_were_in_the_American_military_be fore_Pearl_Harbor_and_how_many_were_there_at_the_e nd_of_the_war#) action in Europe (against Germany and Italy) and half a million men were in action in the Pacific (against the Japanese....I would think we were sleeping,in the 30s.Even tho In Europe,War was more than cooking.
At that time ,if you remember,many influential Americans wanted no part of this War....but On Dec. 7 1941,STUFF HAPPENED,..America at War,The Depression,over,kids in the services,
This fascination we now have ,is reveling.,....we go to museums to view the Armor of the Knights of old...its historic! as these planes are today.,and should never be forgotten!

[fliger747]

An argument exists between the warbird fliers (and crashers) and the Museum preservationists. Every one obliterated by an opertional incident is one less.

The birds done with loving care for FS help preserve the spirit of these rare planes and educate many to their virtues and vices.

Few Japanese planes survive in flying condition, one of my preservation books cites the tendency for the high performance Japanese alloys to crystalize and loose strength with age, to a great degree. One must remember that these planes were not designed for long service lives, ones they would never see.

T

[Helldiver]

I wouldn't say Japanese Aluminum "crystalized", more than they suffered badly by corrosion. They were stuck wth fairly malleable 7075 Aluminum.. Because of Alcoa's developmemt of heat treatable Aluminum, most of our aircraft structures were made of Aluminun- Magnesium- Silicon alloy, 6061 -T6. Further develpments in anodizing made it evan more corrosion resistant, Japanese Aluminum just "rotted" from just being exposed to the enviornment.
It didn't mean that our aircraft did not suffer from corrosion. There was a seaman with a paint pot that would touch up scratches and digs on Carrier borne aircraft.
Sorry for the large printing and any spelling mistakes but my eyes are getting so bad I have to print large enough to read what I write. Getting old ain't for sissies, someone said.

[beana51]

Yes Helldiver,so true......"Sorry for the large printing and any spelling mistakes but my eyes are getting so bad I have to print large enough to read what I write. Getting old ain't for sissies, someone said."


They say the second thing to go is yer memory,when asked whats the first? I reply ,I forgot!.......however We can see UNCLE AL,is not on our shoulders!........And we do not forget..Cheers!..Vin

[fliger747]

That was Art Linkletter that wrote a book, "Getting Old Ain't for Sissies"...... Certainly true! Hard to believe FDR died at only 62!

Metal Crystallazation over a long period is indeed a structural issue, this is specifically mentioned in my museum aircraft restoration references regarding Japanese Aircraft. It is even a concern with some of the old military rifles that I collect (about 50) many of which are in the 100 year old range now. Yes I do shoot them....

Off now from Guam to Tokyo now! The hard working Aviation Machinist Mates certainly helped keep a high aircraft servicability rate while working at sea!

The Zero is a classic aircraft, one that should have more flying example in FS than it does.

All eep up the good work and no need for apologies for the large print, for anyone!

T

[Helldiver]

Metal doesn't "crystalize". As a Vice President of one materials lab and President of another materials firm I can say so with some authority. Now where there is Silicon in the alloy, local sites will exhibit crystals. The Japanese aluminm in the 30s had only small amounts of measured silicon.
Metal "crystalization" is an old wives tale told by people that aren't in the material sciences.
Sorry to bring this up but since it was mentioned twice I thought I should correct it.

[fliger747]

Not that I would know anything, but I did run test labs and in my graduate research I did a lot of work with crystal structures. Metals when the cool and form solids form crystals, which is their charcheristic structure, they are not amorphous. By introducing atomic scale impurities aloys are formed which alter the structure and properties. Carbon for a simple instance turns iron into steel.

http://info.lu.farmingdale.edu/depts/met/met205/crystallization.html

A very brief explanation.

On an atomic scale, these structures change along the grain boundries with time, temperture changes and stress accelerating the process.

Anyway, in Japan at the moment, one has to admire the creative energy of the place and the fine engineering and production. Made in japan is no longer a joke! Wish we made a decent camera!

Cheers: T

[SADT]

Made in japan is no longer a joke! Wish we made a decent camera!

Cheers: T

Hi Tom,

For someone who collects 1950's and 60's German camera's (Zeiss Ikon, Voigtlander, Kodak Retina) etc.. "Made in Japan" is a joke! :mixedsmi: :running: :monkies:

Cheers,
Craig :-)

[fliger747]

Not to laugh any more! My Digital Canons do better than my classic Hasselblads, though I still have them and do like the feel of using them. Japanese optics have always been good and certainly gave them an advantage in the hard ship to ship fighting in the Solomon Islands. That they rebuilt their industries up from a country that had been leveled and strove and achieved a top ranking as a quality industrial power says much.

Just not pepared to spend as much as a nice car for the new digital Hassy's.

Cold and rainy here in Yokota, I can see why they might have wanted to invade Guam....

Cheers: T

[crashaz]

Made in China is now the joke. :icon_lol:


On a more relevant note.... with the Pearl Harbor Anniversary coming tommorrow... maybe we could see new pics of the Zero. *hint* *hint* LOL!

:wavey:

[bazzar]

Our gnomes are deep in gauge work so no pics I'm afraid.
70 years is incredible-and the design still turns heads.
Put 70 years on 1942 and you get 1872. What a difference the advance of technology makes!

[crashaz]

Where's the like button? :icon_lol:

No worries Baz... just make sure she can turn inside of any American fighter and climb like an angel....


.. we will add flames.

[Cag40Navy]

Our gnomes are deep in gauge work so no pics I'm afraid.
70 years is incredible-and the design still turns heads.
Put 70 years on 1942 and you get 1872. What a difference the advance of technology makes!

Darn.... So.... Maybe there is still the possibility to see one with floats too? Think the Gnomes wont hunt me down for that? :icon29: Ive been scared of gnomes since i was 5 because then i learned the meaning of a lawn dart. :icon_lol: