How do you fly

[robert41]

After reading OBIO's post about the VC, in Newshawks, I was wondering how each of us fly an aircraft. That is from the VC, 2D, or outside view?
I remember back in the old FS9 days, reading posts in many forums, that an aircraft "has to have a VC or I do not fly." I started flying, in FS9, with the minipanel, and got use to the VC.
Now, I am reading that some people fly mainly in outside view.

I mainly fly in the VC. I will go to outside view to look at the scenery, but all flying is in the cockpit. How bout you?

[Whitehawk]

VC primarily, 2D if I need it to push buttons i.e. Concorde X and spot to occasionally oogle the pretty aeroplanes :-D

[limjack]

Fsx is vc flying only for me because of the quality. I used to fly using outside view in the older sims and it seemed to be the easiest way to land the aircraft for me. If I try that with fsx I will crash and burn.

[spotlope]

I fly mainly in the VC (95% of the time), but make the occasional trip outside to see the scenery.

[falcon409]

Exclusively VC. If a new release has no VC, I bypass it. I admit that back in the Pro-Pilot and Flight Unlimited days I actually found it easier to fly from the external. Age and wisdom have made me realize that as yet I have not watched a single airplane land where I saw the pilot strapped to the outside of the airplane clutching a joystick.

[Dain Arns]

Exclusively VC. If a new release has no VC, I bypass it. I admit that back in the Pro-Pilot and Flight Unlimited days I actually found it easier to fly from the external. Age and wisdom have made me realize that as yet I have not watched a single airplane land where I saw the pilot strapped to the outside of the airplane clutching a joystick.

Well, okay, true.
But you certainly can do maintenance from the outside while in flight... :icon_lol:

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b162/Leorstef/Dains_Planes/J3Maint.jpg

VC man myself, the more detailed the better in my book.
Has to have a great VC as I will be spending most of my sim time in the "office".

[Astoroth]

My custom, built to suit me, Minipanel view. Low and slow or choppers most of the time, so I like to see the ground around me.

[Roger]

90% in spot view. For me Fs is an escape and I have no pretensions to be a pilot so I like to look at the eye-candy:engel016:

[Dev One]

VC for me, but then I'm a 'Bradshaw' flyer ( i.e. VMC only). If I were a long distance airways flyer I think I would have to use the 2D to get at the bells & whistles, although I suppose I could bring up the panels as and when I need them in the VC. I must admit though that the majority of my flying is developing an aircraft, & sometimes at the beginning I will fly & land in spot view.
Keith

[Bruce Thompson]

Ditto what Roger said, but I do like a nice detailed VC.

[jankees]

Flying? What's that?
I am usually watching paint dry, so I spend a lot of time outside.
The occasional time I actually want to fly, it is from the VC.

[Chris Sykes]

Well, okay, true.
But you certainly can do maintenance from the outside while in flight... :icon_lol:

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b162/Leorstef/Dains_Planes/J3Maint.jpg

VC man myself, the more detailed the better in my book.
Has to have a great VC as I will be spending most of my sim time in the "office".

Wouldnt want to loose a spanner (wench) or any angine parts in that situation!!!

VC for me, FS9 i was 2D panel man but FSX somehow forced my change but i found it much better in FSX to fly from VC than FS9... Especially now i have TrackIR and 3D monitor.

[Daube]

No VC => no download.
Useless VC (must use 2D panels to operate instruments/engines, like the HoverControl 412 or Super Constellation for exemple) => direct deletion.

But I understand that the liner pilots might prefer a 2D panel, since they spend their time watching gauges and FMC.
I also understand that the people who had the courage/talent to build a custom cockpit do not care about the VC and want only a full screen forward view with exported instruments.
I do not understand, however, those who fly VFR/bush planes with 2D panels.

[stansdds]

VC only, I will use the pop-up windows if something in the VC is not easily accessible (TrackIR limitations) or doesn't function correctly from the VC. Any aircraft without a VC or with a poor quality VC will not find a home on my computer. I started flying from the VC exclusively with FS9.

[fleurdelys]

Ditto what Roger said, but I do like a nice detailed VC.

I concur with the above although in FSX, I will sit a few secs in the VC to check my speed on approach (to let me know when to lower landing gear and flaps) but will rarely be inside when the plane flies or touches down...

I must confess that I really enjoy looking at planes and their liveries more than turning knobs and pushing buttons ...

If a plane is too close to real and needs a total checkup to start up, I will loose interest in it very soon... :icon_lol:

Probably just the kid in me who hasn't found time to grow up...:jump:

Cheers,

Fleurdelys

[Erlk0enig]

I like to feel "at home" in my cockpit, so everything counts in the VC - the sounds of the switches, the vibrations of airframes & Needles, the engine sounds... good engine sounds from the VC are more important for me than from the outside because I rarely fly from there. Only the smell is missing :icon_lol:

I use outside view almost exclusively at the beginning and end of my flights to look at the aircraft as I would do in reality.

Best Regards,
E.

[srgalahad]

Every time I hear about people "flying" from Spot View, this is the image I get--

with the predictable result...

k03H9VuKTVk

[fleurdelys]

Dear fellow simmers,

I don't usually get into long dissertations or express my views in such a personal way but this is the time for it, I guess...
I find this thread quite interesting as it gives us a good example of the whys and whatnots behind our reasoning to come back to this forum and fly the planes that we share, whether they be freeware or payware...

There are some who build gorgeous planes and some others, who add their skills and give us gorgeous textures to adorn these beauties. Others prefer to make sceneries or put out their skills to task to get us as close to the real world as is humanely possible, given the limitations of FSX. And, believe it or not, they sometimes manage to push these boundaries in places where we didn't know that there were places to reach in the first place ...
Lastly, there are some who manage to mix and manage sounds in ways that are so close to the real thing that you probably want to duck when in flyby mode...

But I wonder how much of this is lost to those who swear by the VC or mostly VC alone option as far as looking at textures from inside the cockpit or listening to the cone manipulation of the sound as the plane flyes to or away from the observer...
If I recall, the sound inside the VC is different from that of the outside view and muffled to the point that if you are concentrating on your panel, you probably don't hear it at all or don't care as long as it's there in the background ...

I counted the VC only or mostly VC fans from the start of this thread and you stand at a whopping 82% with the rest of us being left out in the cold or spot view mostly...
I know that it takes all types to make a world and I can appreciate that the mostly VC feel that way at having fun checking gauges, turning knobs or pushing buttons as they would if they were really flying that particular plane. What I feel left out a bit is when some of you flatly say that if there is no VC, then that plane wont even be downloaded to your PC because you can't have that particular piece of candy that you prefer...

I think that building a plane or skinning it or making it fly as closes to specs or sound like or whatever takes time, patience and a particular dedication from those that are willing to invest their skills (however good that may be) and by limiting oneself to a particular part of the plane is akin to leaving out those that are not up to your specific standards...

I first started to build planes with FSDS v.1, then moved to v.2, v.3 and now v.3.5 about 9 years ago and never published any of my efforts because I never felt that my efforts were good enough to publish, considering the quality of the planes that were available. My learning curve might be slow but it has been constently improving...
Anyhow, I kept at it doggedly because this was a hobby and it brought me pleasure and relief from everyday stress...
My secret wish was to one day publish a plane which would appeal to a lot of simmers and bring them fun for some time but not just once and then its off because of the quality of the VC or lack thereof...

I've built a pretty decent rendition of a Henschel HS-123 for the past two years (on and off) but I'm no good at building panels and don't foresee myself back to basics for making one which would probably take the best part of another year...
That would be too much to give to so many while I'm really content in flying my plane from spot view mainly, don't you think ?
Anyway, if any of you know this type of plane, then you also know that the VC view is cramped at best and doesn't allow much as far as looking at the scenery around or the airfield when you're getting near to land...
You're better off in spot view just to make sure that you won't bump into a cow in the field or other obstacle left there to help you trip and do the candle.

Just as an after thought, how many others have opted out of uploading their efforts because they felt that it wasn't really worth it while so many would not take it or want it, anyway... ?

Sorry for the ranting... :kilroy:
I needed to tell it to someone as I consider all of you friends, with different views, in my simming endeavours... :engel016:

Fleurdelys

[Daveroo]

im a VC only guy,but like your henschel,id prolly have it in my hanger cause it looks cool,but wouldnt fly it much if i couldnt fly it from the cockpit,,i want to fly FSX or any simulator because i cant fly an airplane real life due to personal reasons,,,colorblind,disabilities,meds,other things,but i want the "real feel" or as close as i can get to that...so i want a good VC,if i want to watch my airplane fly around or shoot em up ill play Xbox 360 or something on my 40 inch tv,

i DO apprieate the hard work thats put into the sounds and the rivits,and panels (extierier)and all the paints,and i look at the when i do a "walk around" in spot view on the ground before flight,but like i said before...this is a replacement for real life for me,and i want a realistic expierance,im not ______,,i cant wingwalk so i prefer to stay inside,,,

i have the ch products line,,eclpise yoke,2 throttles and rudder peddles,i rarely fly "fighters" since i dont have a joystick,i stay with cessnas and pipers and other aircrraft with yokes,,ya know?

[Roger]

Fleurdelys that looks very good to me! Well done:applause:

[fliger747]

Most of the flying I do is FDE development and testing. With some 22,000 hours of plane flying since 1973, it's how I know to fly. An exception has been with the S2 project, trying to get the nose wheel to flyoff correctly at the rit speed. Every landing is replayed from the outside to critically examine the touchdown and rollout. I only regret that with moving ai ships carrier landings are not re playable.

I find that pitch and bank reference are much mor rprecise from inside.

T

[TuFun]

Mostly fly VC and use FSR to view the flight in spot views.

[huub vink]

The Henschel looks gorgeous Fleurdelys! Thanks for sharing your thoughts and you definitely made some good observations.

For me its not really clear whether I'm a VC or spotview man. I like to take off in the VC, however as soon as I'm in the air I like to go to spotview. I Normally I try to land fomr the VC, but somewhere during the landing I have to go in spotview.

When I work on repaints I often use the "Y" key and F4 to enable me to look at the model I'm painting from all angles.

Cheers,
Huub

[falcon409]

Fleurdelys,
First of all, beautiful aircraft, well done.
As for your comments, I see them as a cross section of our community as a whole. There will always be folks to the left, right or dead center and I guess we can't really chide any of them for their opinions since that's what makes SOH so interesting. My perspective, since FSX, is in the cockpit (VC) and I'll tell ya why. You can walk around an airplane and admire the lines, the beauty of a machine that can take you away from the stresses you mention. You can smell the fuel, maybe still feel the heat from an exhaust, you can touch it and marvel at it. . . .but even if you've never flown an airplane before in your life, the second you climb into the cockpit and slide into the seat. . . .if only in your mind, you are a pilot. You can feel the controls, the switches, the knobs the ambiance of the moment and it will take you to another place. You can imagine all sorts of scenarios and you just know you could be that person, you could make that tough landing in a storm and get home safe. Our imagination is boundless and some of us have moved beyond that to the real thing and have had the reality of piloting a craft, while others, many more of us I suspect, will just have to do with a healthy imagination. You can dream about flight as you walk around the airplane and admire it, but nowhere is it more real than in the cockpit (VC).

So coming briefly back to earth, if it doesn't have a VC, it won't get a second look. That says nothing about the abilities of the designer or the external beauty of his/her creation, it just says a lot about where IMHO, many of us feel the sensation of true flight is the strongest.

Again, thanks for your efforts and for sharing your thoughts. Good stuff!:salute:

[JAllen]

Every way possible! Start up, Take off and landing from the cockpit. Taxi from spot view and tower view. Navigate from the cockpit. Admire the paint jobs and detail from any and all angles. We are blessed with such a wealth of beautiful artwork I could not limit enjoyment to any part. That being said, the whole reason I fly sims is the immersion factor. I want to know what must the airplane feel like to fly and land or even fight. I also fly R/C so if a fine model doesn't have a VC then I fly it from tower view. Its all good. -Jim

[Odie]

Well, okay, true.
But you certainly can do maintenance from the outside while in flight... :icon_lol:

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b162/Leorstef/Dains_Planes/J3Maint.jpg

VC man myself, the more detailed the better in my book.
Has to have a great VC as I will be spending most of my sim time in the "office".

I've tried it like this, but it's more comfortable sitting on the wing!! For takeoff, landing, and course corrections, it's VC; but I do spend
a lot of time outside the cockpit while in flight. The VC is fun especially if you're going through mountains.
Good pic, Dain!

[Bjoern]

VC only.


I've spent three years on a Do-328, but never fly it as it doesn't have a VC (yet). :icon_lol:

[OleBoy]

VC, and Spot View mainly. But I tend to cycle through all the views. A full walk around to enhance the immersion always gets the best of me. Especially when I have a nice paint scheme in progress. Tower view is a great vision too. Any R/C flier will agree!

[Dangerous Beans]

I originally come from race sims and in those I never felt connected to the car in outside view so when I discovered flight sims the VC was the natural choice.
I do tend to taxi tail dragger's from spot view though, more from laziness than any other reason, also I can hover and land helicopters easier from spot view. But other than that its VC all the way.

[Cirrus N210MS]

VC Here:salute:

[Mathias]

That's a mighty fine Henschel "Eins-Zwei-Drei" you've go there, Fleurdelys.
I certainly hope one day you'll reconsidere and share your work with us!


....... I can appreciate that the mostly VC feel that way at having fun checking gauges, turning knobs or pushing buttons as they would if they were really flying that particular plane. What I feel left out a bit is when some of you flatly say that if there is no VC, then that plane wont even be downloaded to your PC because you can't have that particular piece of candy that you prefer...

Fleurdelys

Uhmm, you can actually look outside of the cockpit and enjoy the scenery when you sit in it.
To me it's just part of the immersion to sit inside the plane and look outside rather than the opposite.
Nothing better than controlling your plane from the seat of your pants, looking around, have a quick glance over your gauges, do some corrections if necessary and continue enjoying the flight.

[Pepere]

Mostly VC for take offs and landings with outside views for admiring aircraft and scenery and replays.

[SeanTK]

Similar to the above sentiments:

1. I look for a good to high quality virtual cockpit.
2. I also look for a good to high quality exterior model.

I fly a mix between VC and spot-view, and sometimes use 2D pop-up panels to access quick things if it's easier.

[TeaSea]

VC. I do like to poke around a bit and admire the scenery and the airplane.....but mostly VC.

And since I paid for and own the simulation, as well as the models I fly, I figure I can fly it any darn well way I please, and heap foul scorn upon any prince of Europe, that should dare to invade the borders of my realm.

Or are we at Tilbury?

[robert41]

Thanks for the responses everyone.

[hairyspin]

I come from the combat sim side, where it's much easier to select Wonder Woman View. Before that I flew FS3, 4, 98 and wanted a proper cockpit to sit in, so I prefer VC: panel view just says FS Old to me, sorry! I also model and a fine, functioning VC is a wonderful thing to aim for. The more I learn about flying and aircraft, the more I want everything working.

@fleurdelys: that model is nothing to be ashamed of - and it's skinned too! :applause: :applause: :applause:

[TeaSea]

It's a beautiful model....

[hae5904]

....VC only. Perhaps because after FS2000 it was possible to fly from the VC, a matter of actually "being there", the cockpit, the office, from where YOU control.

For repaints I go spot view, but I guess that would be obvious.....!:icon_lol:


Cheers,
Hank

[Daube]

Dear fellow simmers,

But I wonder how much of this is lost to those who swear by the VC or mostly VC alone option as far as looking at textures from inside the cockpit or listening to the cone manipulation of the sound as the plane flyes to or away from the observer...
If I recall, the sound inside the VC is different from that of the outside view and muffled to the point that if you are concentrating on your panel, you probably don't hear it at all or don't care as long as it's there in the background ...

I counted the VC only or mostly VC fans from the start of this thread and you stand at a whopping 82% with the rest of us being left out in the cold or spot view mostly...
I know that it takes all types to make a world and I can appreciate that the mostly VC feel that way at having fun checking gauges, turning knobs or pushing buttons as they would if they were really flying that particular plane. What I feel left out a bit is when some of you flatly say that if there is no VC, then that plane wont even be downloaded to your PC because you can't have that particular piece of candy that you prefer...

I think that building a plane or skinning it or making it fly as closes to specs or sound like or whatever takes time, patience and a particular dedication from those that are willing to invest their skills (however good that may be) and by limiting oneself to a particular part of the plane is akin to leaving out those that are not up to your specific standards...

Fleurdelys

I understand your concern but I think you might be "over-estimating" the problem here, or perhaps "mis-understanding" would be a more appropriate term.
For example, I wrote that I fly from the VC only, just like many others. That doesn't mean that I don't check the external views from time to time ! I just don't use them for piloting/controlling the aircraft, but I surely use them for admiring the aircraft and taking screenshots !

That means that the work that has been done by the texture artist, or the sound artist or the 3D artist, is FULLY appreciated.
I don't think that anybody's here is willing to fly a plane that has a nice virtual cockpit but a bad external model, right ? Additionnaly, we can often see several threads from people looking for GOOD sounds for those aircrafts. The interest is there !

Finally, the reason I use the simulators is because I want to get a flying experience that is as close as possible to the real world experience that is out of my reach.
I want to get an aircraft that is as close as possible to the real one. I want it to look like the real one, I want it to sound like the real one, I want it to fly/react like the real one, and especially, I want to see what the real pilot sees when he is sitting in his cockpit. That's why I prefer the 3D cockpits, because I want to see on my screen what the pilot sees with his eyes. I want to look up or to the right when the real pilot has to look up or to the right. This precise need makes all 2D panels totally excluded. That's what I mean when I write "VC only". That doesn't mean I don't appreciate the external views at all :)

[alehead]

Each to his/her own... diversity is, like variety, a spice of life :)

To me, it is all about recreating the feeling that I am actually in control of the aircraft. The addon has to have a VC, and a good one at that, or I will simply avoid downloading and installing it. I do not have as much free time as I would wish to have and spending that rare time in a model that does not cut it in my mind is just a waste of that time.

Needless to say, I will spend a few minutes from time to time using one of the outside presets or customizing one to a specific view for a screenshot in a competition for example... But the flight will be started and finished up front... I find it almost impossible these days to land in any external view, as I am now used to the various reference points in the VCs...

My hangar consists of A2A accusims, a number of Realair packages, the PMDG MD11X, JS41, and NGX, and a few other oddities... all flown from start to finish from the VC viewpoint...

Andrew

[andersel]

Admittedly, I'm very new to FSX, but I've found that limiting onesself to a single or predominant view takes away from the enjoyment of simming. I spend a fair amount of time in one outside view or another because I just like looking at airplanes. As far as the cockpit goes, I tend to prefer the 2D because of a visual impairment. VCs are often too dark for me to see what I need to see so I move back and forth between 2D & VC . But, hey! I'm flying>

LA

[EMatheson]

Typically VC for me - within limits. The reason for this is that I like my aircraft detailed and tough to control, and that is much easier to control from inside. That means I insist on functional and goodlooking VCs. However, the exterior view is crucial to my useage of the sim. My situational awareness isn't too good, I didn't spend the time and money to install all the stuff by Holger Sandmann and Ultimate Terrain for nothing. Maps are dry and lack character. I navigate VFR - using Various Fields and Roads. The VC isn't as useful sometimes (most of the time) as a check of my enviroment from them side or the top. It's also helpful with tight situations, since the default FS autogen is so badly scaled. Makes VC navigation difficult for me when I'm trying to land in a tight spot.
Besides, as a non-pilot (as yet), I usually see aircraft from the outside anyway. That's how I'm familier with things like the P-51 or the ERJ - not from inside. I like flying them from the inside, but I'm more experientially comfortable with them from the outside... if you know what mean.

[AussieMan]

VC + Spot for me.

Cheers
Pat

[modelr]

I'm all over the aircraft, on the ground, in the air. Like some mentioned, being an R/C pilot, the tower view is great! The sounds from there are awesome. To those of us who can/do fly 1:1, the sim is useful for training, but definitely lacks the "full environment" feeling, ie no feeling of motion/vibrations, etc. These are all a very important part of flying. But that doesn't mean I don't enjoy the sim.

Not having a vc in the model does not automatically keep it out of my hanger, or maybe I should say, off my ramp, as ai aircraft. Our more powerful machines can put up with about a dozen or so non-lod, non-ai type aircraft, and not having a vc means the model is easier on frames. Just my preferences. For the same reason, I try to get as many paints as are available for all my aircraft, also.

fleurdelys, that is a beautiful Henschel 123. I would definitely have it in my hanger, even without a panel.

Don

[fleurdelys]

Bonjour à tous,

To all who have taken the time to answer my post (I think my biorithm must have hit a low that day...LoL) and showed appreciation for my efforts, thank you, it is appreciated !

I just wanted to add that I have purchased the necessary program to get into panel making and will definitely try to get one to fit the exterior of my plane.

Just don't hold your breath for now as it may take some time for me to get my act together and create the last but "important" part of this enjoyable hobby.

Cheers,

Fleurdelys

[fleurdelys]

Just an afterthought to the above...

For the mainly VC flyers; just imagine when... :wavey:

And for the mainly SPOT flyers; just enjoy for the time being... :jump:

[fleurdelys]

... and a few more...

The last one being a totally fictitions "what if" joint venture between Henschel and Mitsubishi... :kilroy:

Cheers,

Fleurdelys

[skyhawka4m]

Dear fellow simmers,

I don't usually get into long dissertations or express my views in such a personal way but this is the time for it, I guess...
I find this thread quite interesting as it gives us a good example of the whys and whatnots behind our reasoning to come back to this forum and fly the planes that we share, whether they be freeware or payware...

There are some who build gorgeous planes and some others, who add their skills and give us gorgeous textures to adorn these beauties. Others prefer to make sceneries or put out their skills to task to get us as close to the real world as is humanely possible, given the limitations of FSX. And, believe it or not, they sometimes manage to push these boundaries in places where we didn't know that there were places to reach in the first place ...
Lastly, there are some who manage to mix and manage sounds in ways that are so close to the real thing that you probably want to duck when in flyby mode...

But I wonder how much of this is lost to those who swear by the VC or mostly VC alone option as far as looking at textures from inside the cockpit or listening to the cone manipulation of the sound as the plane flyes to or away from the observer...
If I recall, the sound inside the VC is different from that of the outside view and muffled to the point that if you are concentrating on your panel, you probably don't hear it at all or don't care as long as it's there in the background ...

I counted the VC only or mostly VC fans from the start of this thread and you stand at a whopping 82% with the rest of us being left out in the cold or spot view mostly...
I know that it takes all types to make a world and I can appreciate that the mostly VC feel that way at having fun checking gauges, turning knobs or pushing buttons as they would if they were really flying that particular plane. What I feel left out a bit is when some of you flatly say that if there is no VC, then that plane wont even be downloaded to your PC because you can't have that particular piece of candy that you prefer...

I think that building a plane or skinning it or making it fly as closes to specs or sound like or whatever takes time, patience and a particular dedication from those that are willing to invest their skills (however good that may be) and by limiting oneself to a particular part of the plane is akin to leaving out those that are not up to your specific standards...

I first started to build planes with FSDS v.1, then moved to v.2, v.3 and now v.3.5 about 9 years ago and never published any of my efforts because I never felt that my efforts were good enough to publish, considering the quality of the planes that were available. My learning curve might be slow but it has been constently improving...
Anyhow, I kept at it doggedly because this was a hobby and it brought me pleasure and relief from everyday stress...
My secret wish was to one day publish a plane which would appeal to a lot of simmers and bring them fun for some time but not just once and then its off because of the quality of the VC or lack thereof...

I've built a pretty decent rendition of a Henschel HS-123 for the past two years (on and off) but I'm no good at building panels and don't foresee myself back to basics for making one which would probably take the best part of another year...
That would be too much to give to so many while I'm really content in flying my plane from spot view mainly, don't you think ?
Anyway, if any of you know this type of plane, then you also know that the VC view is cramped at best and doesn't allow much as far as looking at the scenery around or the airfield when you're getting near to land...
You're better off in spot view just to make sure that you won't bump into a cow in the field or other obstacle left there to help you trip and do the candle.

Just as an after thought, how many others have opted out of uploading their efforts because they felt that it wasn't really worth it while so many would not take it or want it, anyway... ?

Sorry for the ranting... :kilroy:
I needed to tell it to someone as I consider all of you friends, with different views, in my simming endeavours... :engel016:

Fleurdelys


I want the Henshel!!!!!

[aeronca1]

I want the Henshel!!!!!

Me to, Me to!!!