CERA SAD DECISION RE PIRACY

[Barnes]

The best helicopter producer has made an announcement


http://cerasimaircraft.com/


I cant really blame them.

[Sieggie]

The should have had a going out of business sale. That would have told them whether the problem was piracy or product cost in this abysmal economy. When Rasbam and Iris lowered their price to below rock bottom, their servers were shut down from activity. This sort of says people will buy if the price is low enough. Everyone who bought at those sales were customers that were not influenced by the free availability from the pirates and decided to part with their money because the price was within their budget and couldn't resist a bargain. I myself bought stuff at the Rasbam sale that I have not even installed yet but could not resist the price.

Helos are a niche within a niche and without support from the vendor just wasted bytes on the HD. I would believe most morons who dl a pirated version of their code would first have a hard time getting the engines started then crash repeatedly followed by deleting them to make space for other stolen software.

Just my 2 Cents.

[jeansy]

i feel there is a little more than just piracy that has caused this

its sad beacuse theyre were right up there with dodo

now we have the lesser brands like nemeth to deal with

[big-mike]

What reason ever,it is allways sad when a company closes their doors.
A lost for all simmer.
Michael

[Fireball6]

It is a shame - they were on the right way and get better and better with every helicopter they released - simply unbelievable that so many pirates are under us Flightsim-enthusiasts. I am so tired to read more and more about pirates. Thank you very much all you pirates - it is so nice to see that our hobby gone down .........

[strykerpsg]

Wow! Was just considering purchasing their 222. I see it's still available, guess it just means no support is all.

Matt

[NWarty]

A big, fat, red "Bankrupt" sign on the front page. Really? Are they really Bankrupt from piracy? I've been eye-ballin' the 222 in the past week and I don't even fly helicopters! It's a great looking model. Hope it's still available somewhere from a distributor after this.

And in regards to Iris, that was one of the best things EVER in the sim-payware business. I picked up three aircraft that I would have not had an interest prior to that week and absolutely love them.

[Prowler1111]

I´m going to comment in this since i already been there and i still have the t-shirt to prove it..
Piracy is not always the main reason, lack of interest is..no matter how cool, great looking and outstandingly precise a given add on is, if it does not rise enough interest, it´s a dead fish in a barrel.Pricing also has some of the culprit but not all, sure, a low interest add on coupled with a high selling price is a recipe for disaster, most belly up projects end there just because there is not enough interest in a very small customer base (helicopter customers). You combine all this, plus 2 or 3 MFers (sorry, it´s not a bunch, it´s just 2 or 3 MFers doing all the FS piracy, and yes, i know you are reading me, and yes i KNOW who you´re, and no, it´s not SOH fault(or all the FS dedicated forums), these imbeciles know how to camouflage themselves to the level of almost non detection)who are in a personal vendetta towards commercial FS developers trying to overcome their small manhood due to nature´s silly sense of humor, there you have your worst wake up call, **tch slap telling you were wrong with your predictions as a developer on a given project.Absolutely ALL of us are victims of piracy, don´t go around believing there is a magic wand to solve this, there is not , no software, dedicated dll´s etc, will stop it.It will delay it, yes, long enough for you to cover your costs? that´s the idea,making a dime or two out of it, that´s the whole point, but if even after all that, no dice, then the product was the problem independently of how good it is .Now, there is also something the fellows at CERA should take in consideration, most if not all low profile FS addons (by this i mean anything that is NOT a P-51, Spitfire, German ww2 figther, Any Boeing, Airbus and MD tubeliner, cessna prop job, vintage civvie prop jobs..you catch my drift) are not short time investments but long term.If you invest in creating something you know it´s going to be quick**s but it turns into a belly flop aircraft/chopper, then wait for it in the long term.Also, if the real thing didn´t do that good, that´s also an indication of how "good" it might do in the FS world.I´ve heard of just 3 fellas who broke the 6 figure barrier in this biz, 2 of them with REALLY clever stuff and NONE doing airplanes and or sceneries, so "hitting it rich" is not part of this and bad sellers are a constant in this biz.
Screaming bankruptcy and stop any development due to a low blow, and in this particular case, seems like a hurried up decision taken while been in a bad mood, IMHO it´s not the right path.If the guys at CERA are reading this, drop me a PM, let´s chat a bit guys...

Best regards

Prowler

PS: forgive me for my foul language, but i simply can´t find words to describe these scum...

[strikehawk]

Wow! Was just considering purchasing their 222. I see it's still available, guess it just means no support is all.

Matt

Same here, I got a bit of OT hours last paycheck and was looking at the 222 and the 212.

[wombat666]

Crying 'Piracy' is not a valid reason, just an easy cop out.
Prowler1111 sums the situation up succintly, a niche market subject within a niche hobby will always be tight.
Piracy will always thrive, so the best way around the problem is to work with one of the 'Big dogs' in the retail business and let them worry about the bottom line.
:kilroy:

[pfflyers]

While it must be really frustrating to find your product being pirated, I wonder how much business pirates really steal. What I mean is: the type of person that would install a pirated copy of something probably wouldn't have bought it anyway.

I think those of us who buy payware wouldn't intentionally install a pirated copy, at least I wouldn't. I like to support my local developer and encourage him (or her) to continue to bring me cool new toys.

[Lawman]

While it must be really frustrating to find your product being pirated, I wonder how much business pirates really steal. What I mean is: the type of person that would install a pirated copy of something probably wouldn't have bought it anyway.


:a1451:I'm sorry but I don't believe that. It's true you can't stamp out piracy by purely technical means. What we (as a society) should address IMHO is people's morals and values, or better the lack of them. The anonimity of the Internet and the virtual nature of products make the "crime" anonymous, easy, perceivedly victimless and thus enticing for a larger group which would refrain from an act of "physical" shoplifting for fear of getting caught. In a society where the individuals' desires are deemed more important than the needs of the collective and "being part of society" is measured by how much stuff you can amass, "for free" appeals to basic human instinct. That's the real damage that piracy does: luring people over to "the Dark Side". It is also a sign that our society is adrift and we need to take a long and hard look at it.

[AndyG43]

What we (as a society) should address IMHO is people's morals and values, or better the lack of them......

I admire the sentiment, and agree with it, but ........

In the UK we have had an endless succession of news stories over thae past few years; our MPs are fiddling their expenses (hugely - my favourite was the MP who claimed for the cleaning of his moat); all bankers are b******s; Rupert Murdoch has our politicians in his pocket; Murdoch's journalists illegally obtained news stories; journalists are 'paying' police for stories .... well, you get the picture - I'm sure it is the same where you live. The point is, the people at the top of our society and the guardians of that society have demonstrated time & time again their lack of morals and their debased values; from the view at the bottom of the heap they seem to be getting away with it as well. So these scummy pirates are simply following the example set by people who should know better - not condoning it, I think it is totally reprehensible at all levels, but sadly it is the society we now live in.

Picking up on Prowler's comments, and Sieggie (and others) comments; some time ago, in another thread here about piracy, I made an observation. I pointed out that most developers had made the conscious decision to no longer develop for FS9, thereby immediately cutting their potential market by about 40%; further specialisation & increasing complexity would reduce that potential market even further - I was flamed & howled down, to the extent I stayed clear of the FSX forums for a very long time!! But, in retrospect, was I wrong?

As people here have said (and they were my very words at the time), this is already a niche hobby; complex helicopter modelling for FSX is a niche, within a niche, within a niche - blaming it all on piracy is far too easy (although it is undoubtedly part of the problem). IMO Prowler has it spot on.

Feel free to start the howling & flaming, I'll just retreat to my little hovel in the FS9 forums.

[tanocapo]

Really sad news. There's too much work to end it this way!! But i don't think that the onlyy culprit is piracy even when we all know how affects business!!

I hope that future projects from these guys (or guy idk) could be achieved!!

:salute:

[GundamWZero]

Wait... was it me or am I mistaken that they were working on the Bell 407 GX or the Bell 429?

Either way... it was a blow the the helicopter side of FSX. I was watching the development of their 222 right up until they released it. It can be refined a bit more but I guess you have to do what you have to do in this day and age.... :(

[Wothan]

I´m a FS developer too...

If piracy is the reason I really understand them.
Spending 100 of hours on an addon only to see it being distributed on pirate sites a couple of minuttes after release is very discouraging.
I have seen this with all the projects I have been on.

But its´not different than for any other media - be it music, movies or games.
I hardly know anyone who doesn't "exchange" movies. They bring hardisks full of the latest movies etc. and exchange them with comrades.

It´s more common than not - sadly.

People don´t feel like thiefs when they sit at home at their computers and grab stolen content, but taking stuff that was meant to be paid for is stealing regardless where You are - even at Your home.

For flightsims it is even more bad, since it´s a real niche' and rather fragile. As a developer You don´t earn alot of money for Your hard work.

I have even seen alot of those thiefs show up in support forums asking for help.

The only way to change this is to change those peoples mind.


Just my words to it...

I feel sad for Cera Sim.


Finn

[heywooood]

I think developers must get discouraged when they check those sites and see the number of downloads of each of their products...you cant help but convert that to lost dollars and see the difference between working at net loss - to breaking even or turning a small profit...

It would anger me and discourage me from putting in the hours - why should a developer be different...

the difference between me and this type of thief is that I know the consequences - soon no one is developing anything... and/or the cost gets prohibitive and the online only, code pinging, anti-theft, anti-piracy methods we all love become standard.

[warchild]

Everything i've ever developed has been on pirate sites within minutes after its release. Yes, its discouraging, but, some of you folks seem to like my work a lot and to throw in the towel just because my work is being pirated means i'd feel like i was letting those who like my work down.. I can live with discouragement far better than living with the feeling ive betrayed someone..
Pam

[Dexdoggy]

NO!!!
I have just recently bought the 222 and it was my first ever Helicopter payware, and it is just brilliant! I have some of the fantastic repaints from Jeansy and other good folk here at SOH; I have been flying this thing all the time!
I was about to buy the 412, darn!

Regardless, I salute CERA for the beautiful 222 :salute:

[jeansy]

NO!!!
I have just recently bought the 222 and it was my first ever Helicopter payware, and it is just brilliant! I have some of the fantastic repaints from Jeansy and other good folk here at SOH; I have been flying this thing all the time!
I was about to buy the 412, darn!

Regardless, I salute CERA for the beautiful 222 :salute:

get it anyway if you can afford it, who knows how long it will remain for sale, it may disappear for good in a few days or weeks

its another lovely package

[Dexdoggy]

Jeansy...
212 or 412? (Budget for only one :icon_lol:) (I have the 222)

[euroastar350]

I still have contact with the main guy behind Cera and he has informed me that the B212, B222 and B412 will remain available for sale and support will be there....but no more helicopters from them:kilroy: He even showed me a screenshot of what was to become the next product.

[jeansy]

Thanks G for the heads up


Jeansy...
212 or 412? (Budget for only one :icon_lol:) (I have the 222)

Dex its hard to say theyre as good as each other despite what the muppets say over at the orbx forums there is more to flightsim helos than the dodo

i fly both of them constantly if anything i use the 212 a little more

i suggest browse the paints and see what catches your eye,

[Sascha66]

I admire the sentiment, and agree with it, but ........

In the UK we have had an endless succession of news stories over thae past few years; our MPs are fiddling their expenses (hugely - my favourite was the MP who claimed for the cleaning of his moat); all bankers are b******s; Rupert Murdoch has our politicians in his pocket; Murdoch's journalists illegally obtained news stories; journalists are 'paying' police for stories .... well, you get the picture - I'm sure it is the same where you live. The point is, the people at the top of our society and the guardians of that society have demonstrated time & time again their lack of morals and their debased values; from the view at the bottom of the heap they seem to be getting away with it as well. So these scummy pirates are simply following the example set by people who should know better - not condoning it, I think it is totally reprehensible at all levels, but sadly it is the society we now live in.

Picking up on Prowler's comments, and Sieggie (and others) comments; some time ago, in another thread here about piracy, I made an observation. I pointed out that most developers had made the conscious decision to no longer develop for FS9, thereby immediately cutting their potential market by about 40%; further specialisation & increasing complexity would reduce that potential market even further - I was flamed & howled down, to the extent I stayed clear of the FSX forums for a very long time!! But, in retrospect, was I wrong?

As people here have said (and they were my very words at the time), this is already a niche hobby; complex helicopter modelling for FSX is a niche, within a niche, within a niche - blaming it all on piracy is far too easy (although it is undoubtedly part of the problem). IMO Prowler has it spot on.

Feel free to start the howling & flaming, I'll just retreat to my little hovel in the FS9 forums.

Iagree with you entirely!

There are quite a lot of FSX products I'd immediately snap up if they were available for FS9.

The FS9 user base is still large enough to make a sales difference to FS addons, I am certain of that (without having any figures to go on).

[calypsos]

When I started this hobby (FS5), there was no piracy in FS because almost nobody charged for their developments, it was all freeware and people did it for FUN........every developer I know (and it's quite a few) who 'crossed over' into payware has hated it, made no real money out of it and in some cases has given up simming themselves.

This hobby only makes real money for MS, it makes a (smallish) amount for the big players like Just Flight and Aerosoft. If you are a sole developer, sell your product for a fixed price and small royalty to them......or make it free like Tim C and a few other steadfast souls.

You will only get heartache and bad feelings if you think your talent will make you rich. Not in these times anyway, that's my feeling.

[spotlope]

When I started this hobby (FS5), there was no piracy in FS because almost nobody charged for their developments, it was all freeware and people did it for FUN........every developer I know (and it's quite a few) who 'crossed over' into payware has hated it, made no real money out of it and in some cases has given up simming themselves.

This hobby only makes real money for MS, it makes a (smallish) amount for the big players like Just Flight and Aerosoft. If you are a sole developer, sell your product for a fixed price and small royalty to them......or make it free like Tim C and a few other steadfast souls.

You will only get heartache and bad feelings if you think your talent will make you rich. Not in these times anyway, that's my feeling.

Wow, that hasn't been my experience with payware at all. After nearly 10 years of making scenery - most of that time as payware - I still love doing it. Not only that, but the income it provides has grown nicely over the years. It's about 40% of my total take-home these days and climbing. I probably could do it full-time if I had the guts to make the leap. Obviously, I can't speak for anyone by myself, but I've found the FS dev experience to be very rewarding.

[calypsos]

Great to hear that Bill, I just wish it was the same all round. I can name at least four (well known) developers who have had a bad time when money got involved. Having said that, the whole world is not exactly a nice place nowadays.....thanks to money!:icon_lol:

[michael davies]

Wow, that hasn't been my experience with payware at all. After nearly 10 years of making scenery - most of that time as payware - I still love doing it. Not only that, but the income it provides has grown nicely over the years. It's about 40% of my total take-home these days and climbing. I probably could do it full-time if I had the guts to make the leap. Obviously, I can't speak for anyone by myself, but I've found the FS dev experience to be very rewarding.

Glad to hear it too, but that sort of sunny story usually evolves for one of two reasons, you have a water tight trustworthy employer, you work for yourself.

I don't have enough fingers and toes to list those I know who've been burnt in FS and TS by payware scoundrels in the ten years I've been involved, be assured, there are plenty of pirates 'inside' this business.

[krazycolin]

I'm with Michael on this one... It's easier in fact to deal with the pirates who just steal your product. At least for that you KNOW it's going to happen and are semi-prepared for it. The ones you do business with who rip you off you have no knowledge until it happens and then you are left standing there wondering wtf happened... (please excuse my language)....

Sucks.