Another Duck?

[Paul Domingue]

I realy enjoyed Heather Sherman’s Duck way-back-when we had only FS2002 and I decided back a while ago when FS9 came out that I would build a Grumman Duck for my own enjoyment. I started the project a couple of years ago but realy got working on it in just the past six months. I decide to go with one version only, the J2F-5. I have flown the aircraft in FSX which I am designing it strickly for (sorry FS9 users). With all the addditonal reference information I aquired recently I have shelved all my textures until I get the model complete. The exterior is 95% complete and the VC is about 65% complete (excluding textures). My intensions are to have both Pilot and Navigator seats available to fly from. I want this VC to be as accurate as can be in detail. I don’t know what kind of FPS It will hit but I’m sticking to detail and eye candy. I use TrackIR to view the interior and most everything you see in the pictures can be seen. It’s all animated and That’s going to be another learning curv for me getting it into FSX with proper assignments but I’ll jump that hurdle when I get to it. The Engine is in the shop getting a complete overhaul.

Paul

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[warchild]

thats looking really good. really really good.. I'll be looking forward to seeing more in this plane..
Pam

[Sundog]

Well, Duck me. That's a fine looking airplane I can't wait to waddle around the FSX skies in. Nice job. :)

[fsafranek]

That looks great Paul. Looking forward to seeing more images as you progress.

[Roger]

Excellent Paul:applause:

[roger-wilco-66]

Looks superb, Paul!
Keep us posted!

Cheers,
Mark

[huub vink]

Wow Paul, that is really a work of art so far!

From what I understand is making the model the nice and quickest part, so you must be near the point where fun starts to turn into effort..... So good luck with the next stages and I hope you keep us posted.

Cheers,
Huub

[N2056]

That's one good looking model! :ernae:

[OleBoy]

It's nice to hear back from you Paul. I was wondering if this Duck was going to fly or not. It looks as if it's swimming anyway and you're moving right along. This is great news!! And it's nice to see (and hear) the level of detail that you've got planned. Definitely looking forward to seeing, and hearing more about your progress. Thanks for sharing!

[Paul Domingue]

Thanks for all the complements, it’s very much appreciated. I have been fussing over this for a while now. I keep finding new reference and Oh oh I need to correct or add something and that blows my UVW maps and then I have to make all those corrections. I try to put a couple of hours in it a day but that doesn’t always happen. Hopefully I will see light at then end of the tunnel provided my worst critque get’s off my back (me) and then one day I can post it in the Warbirds gallery. If anybody wants to see the full sized images (3000x1800) here are the links.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Thanks for all the encouragement.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Paul

http://lpad.horizon-host.com/images/J2F-5_1.jpg
http://lpad.horizon-host.com/images/VC_5.jpg
http://lpad.horizon-host.com/images/VC_6.jpg

BTW, can anybody identify this object?

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[Barnes]

wow that looks great - cant wait to purchase.

[warchild]

Welll, you have a steel mesh sleeve on the tube, and the dome part of it remnds me of something used in high pressure rigs. I dont know if this plane had oxygen, but my guess would be that it's either oxygen or hydraulic in purpose..

[Paul Domingue]

wow that looks great - cant wait to purchase.

Once I'm done to my satisfaction it will be available as freeware. I have a few other models in the works and depending on the reception the Duck gets I may offer them for a little beer money. :guinness::icon_lol:

[OleBoy]

I can't be of any help with the item the arrow points towards, but I can say this much, the higher resolution shots show a lot of nice detail. When finished (no hurry) it will be what seems to be the workings of an in-depth rendition. Don't let your fussy picky-ness change. I like the looks of it!! I'm making a guess that you didn't managed to find the drawings (blueprints) you were searching for?

[rwmarth]

Not sure about the rivet size though......

I'm kidding! Looking fantastic; keep it up!

[warchild]

I know this sounds really stupid, but couldnt that piece the arrows pointing at be the master cylinder for the high pressure system?? Its a complete guess and i admit that, but its a possibility

[anthony31]

That's looking really good Paul. Lots of nice detailed work.

[Piglet]

Looks good Paul!
That object in question, might actually be a flex lamp?

[greenie]

First post or is it the second ? ...Im excited enough to post !...Really looking forward to this, it looks just fine . Thank you so much. All being well I will buy you a beer !:jump:

[Quicksand]

Looks awesome Paul! Thanks for your hard work... This one is at the top of my watch list.. WOW! :applause: :medals::jump:

[lazarus]

Looks good Paul!
That object in question, might actually be a flex lamp?

It does indeed look very nice! I think Tim is right in that its electrical in nature- though there is a light forward in the shot. The flex lights in question had a swaged ring construction so they'd flex- put a few into the Westphalia. O2 plumbing in the Ducks day tended to be copper(Pre-war) then steel, and O2 bottles tended to be zinc-chromate or green, not sure a duck would get high enough. Braided steel like that is usually electrical conduit-don't recall the AN number off hand. It looks for all the world like a gyro head, but why in the heck would they've put it in the cockpit, so thats probably not it. Auto pilot bits? Did a Duck have an auto pilot? Black was the color of choice for instrument bits, auto pilots, gyros, radios ect. Hence 'Black box' Mysteries! Its like attempting to devine the purpose and capabilities of Soviet gear from propaganda and May-day parade photos whay back when. Dang-it. I know I've see that before!

[Milton Shupe]

Astoundingly amazing modeling Paul! WOW! :applause:

[Paul Domingue]

Thanks for all the input on the object in question. I was finally able to pin it down from your suggestions and some digging, I think.
<o:p></o:p>
Yes OleBoy I did pick up a maintenance manual for the -4 and -5 and pilot manuals for the -4, -5 and -6
<o:p></o:p>
The pilot’s manual has this to say.
<o:p></o:p>
Oxygen Regulators & Shut-Off Valves
---------------------------------------
Pilot’s Cockpit – Regulator on left hand shelf. (bingo)
Cylinder shut-off valve accessible through cut-out in floor.

There were also regulators and valves located for the navigator and a passenger (usualy the camera operator).
<o:p></o:p>
I'm thinking it’s a continuous flow oxygen regulator. The one pictured is probably a type A-6 or A-7 used in the mid to late 30’s but by 1941 the A-9A manual continuous flow oxygen regulator became the standard. How does that sound to you guys and gals? Now if I can only find a picture of this beast or a reasonable facsimile to model from.
<o:p></o:p>
BTW, I can’t pin down the service ceiling for this aircraft. I have seen everything from 25,000 ft to 27000 ft. The manuals make no statement on this. The aircraft served primarily as PHOTO RECON, SAR and ASW so high altitudes wouldn’t have been suitable for these missions.

[warchild]

<o:p></o:p>
The pilot’s manual has this to say.
<o:p></o:p>
Oxygen Regulators & Shut-Off Valves
---------------------------------------
Pilot’s Cockpit – Regulator on left hand shelf. (bingo)
Cylinder shut-off valve accessible through cut-out in floor.

There were also regulators and valves located for the navigator and a passenger (usualy the camera operator).
<o:p></o:p>
I'm thinking it’s a continuous flow oxygen regulator. The one pictured is probably a type A-6 or A-7 used in the mid to late 30’s but by 1941 the A-9A manual continuous flow oxygen regulator became the standard. How does that sound to you guys and gals? Now if I can only find a picture of this beast or a reasonable facsimile to model from.
<o:p></o:p>.

::preening:: :) :)

Sounds dead on to me. Steel wire mesh is still used today on high pressure systems ( and looks really cool on 428 hemi head engines too :) ), and cylinders are still commonly used with any portable gas system. Given the size of the nut on the top of that cylinder, i'm wondering if that isnt the oxygen bottle itself?? since the regulator is mounted remotely, there wouldnt be a need for one on the top of the bottle. Instead there would only need be a pipe connecting the bottle to the regulator. The location for it would be logical then. With as much as those weight, the closer it is to the pilot, the more balanced the plane stays. also, it eliminates most of the build up of moisture in the air line between the bottle and the regulator.

doing a quick cross check, i'm even more convinced thats actually the oxygen bottle there.. These are about twice the size of the one in the cockpit, but, that screww head on the top gives it away..

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[warchild]

<o:p></o:p>
BTW, I can’t pin down the service ceiling for this aircraft. I have seen everything from 25,000 ft to 27000 ft. The manuals make no statement on this. The aircraft served primarily as PHOTO RECON, SAR and ASW so high altitudes wouldn’t have been suitable for these missions.

I wouldnt worry too much about that. If the MAC and lift is set up correctly in the flight model, its service ceiling will become painfully evident ( the plane will get sluggish and be unable to hold itself at that altitude or above )..

[TARPSBird]

Paul I concur with the O2 bottle call. Probably painted dark green, somewhere around RGB value 58/105/1.

[Bomber_12th]

One of the things I always find helpful, is that if you cannot find a better photo of the part installed on a certain aircraft, to search through photos of the next closest-to-type aircraft. In the case of the Grumman Duck, the closest aircraft to it is the F3F, and after that, the F4F. I wasn't able to come up with any quality photos from the cockpit of the F3F showing such a bottle/canister, but I was able to find some superb photos from the cockpits of F4F's, showing what appears to be the same, or at least near-the-same bottle as seen in the photo of the Duck cockpit. As this bottle is the oxygen bottle in the F4F, also positioned behind and to the side of the pilot's seat, I am highly confident that what you see in the Duck cockpit is yet another oxygen bottle (though with a different connection setup). As TARPSBird has mentioned, these particular bottles were always green (in contrast to larger types, such as those that could be seen in aircraft like the B-17, which were painted yellow).

Looking forward to seeing this aircraft as it progresses to completion - excellent work thus-far!

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y282/Bomber_12th/017-5.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y282/Bomber_12th/F4F_Cockpit.jpg

[Paul Domingue]

Thanks much, now I have a solid base to model (the object in question:kilroy:) on.
<o:p></o:p>
I’ll have to say I’m quite flattered, I didn’t think my Duck would generate this much enthusiasm it being my first serious endeavor at modeling for FS, hopefully I can live up to the expectations.
<o:p></o:p>
Currently I’m trying to finalize the exterior model. I’ve spent the last three days modeling the tail gear (see pictures). I’m satisfied with it except for the return springs which I have no idea how I will make them and just might leave them off, but that thought rubs me the wrong way.
<o:p></o:p>
I need to correct the counter balance on the main gear since I have that totally wrong but that won’t be a problem.
<o:p></o:p>
I need to refine the arrestor hook and model an exterior version of the 30 caliber BAR which I have started in the VC.
<o:p></o:p>
The engine which I modeled many years ago looks like crap compared to the rest of the model so I trashed it and will start modeling another soon.
<o:p></o:p>
The exterior textures are all on two 2048x2048 sheets. I have been trying to keep within these two sheets since I understand that anything more will greatly affect the frame rates. I have also been trying to keep the textures reasonably designed (PSD) for ease of repaints.
<o:p></o:p>
The last thing on the exterior, which I am dreading, is modeling a pilot and navigator. For some reason I don’t feel confident about modeling people.

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[warchild]

meh.. youve got courage, and it shows, and your pretty darned good at modeling too.. I cant speak for the others, but i'm happy to help out as I can. Its selfish really.. I wanna fly this one day ..:)


Oh DUhhh.. I just thought of another piece of reference material for you. a movie called Murphies war. It's centered around a duck.. Stars Peter O'Toole

[anthony31]

Springs are a bitch.

The only thing worse than springs are cables that go around a wheel to turn them 90 deg :).

Or chain drives.

For the springs you may be able to get away with making two tubes, textured appropriately, each about half the length of the total spring. Then you just push one end of the tube into the other to close the spring. It's not perfect but does get the job done though with the minimum of polys. See attached pic for example.

Or you can go really nuts (see second pic). With the second pic I was able to get away without compressing the spring but letting the hooks inside the springs move instead. The pic shows the tail wheel in full deflection.

For your situation I guess you could model parts of the spring and have them move into each other. It would take a very keen eye to pick out what was happening and I rather miserable soul who would complain about it.

[anthony31]

P.S. People aren't that hard to model. As long as you don't need them to look exactly like the real person :)

[Paul Domingue]

Looking at your work anthony31 is quite humbling especially when I can recognize the Bing carburetor and K&N air filter.
<o:p></o:p>
Murphy’s War! It is one of my favorite movies which I have watched at least 7 or 8 times. I keep a link to the Youtube flight scenes in my Duck work folder to watch when ever I get frustrated.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcZlVbrMRQY

[hairyspin]

The only thing worse than springs are cables that go around a wheel to turn them 90 deg :).

Or chain drives....


I don't know which modelling tool you're using, but I've had gratifying results animating chain - individual links - with a Path Constraint in gmax; same would go for 3ds Max.

[Roger]

Paul,
I'm sure a developer could loan you a pilot...

[Gibbage]

First, great modeling! Its looking really good, and thats coming from someone who has been doin this for over 10 years.

Second, let me teach you a professional secret. This will get you through many rough patches that just seem like there are no solutions. Say this phraise too yourself over and over. "Horse shoes and hand grenades". Say it about 10 times, and when you get stuck on something, say it again. What does it mean? Quite simply, you only need to get close enough! Dont fret over modeling spring loops or chain links!!!!! Nobody will notice!

I did this sort of thing when I first started, and nobody once said "Wow, nice spring!!". When I stopped, nobody said "Were are the springs?". Also, those sort of detail chew up frame rate for something that will never be seen. They eat massive ammounts of polygons!! Same thing for coiled wires.

Ultimatly if you need to do chain links, path deform will be your best friend. If you need help using it, let me know and I will walk you through the steps.

Keep up the good work, and remember, "Hose shoes and hand grenades"!!!!

[Paul Domingue]

I have been concerned about frame rates and some of this model primarily in the VC will be eliminated because it ether can not be seen or isn’t that noticeable, I’ll know more once I’m back in it again. If it’s flyable on my system which is not to very fast then it should be OK for others. I am modeling for a computer display model as well. Later I hope to build the carb and fuel system with removable panels just for display (delusions of grandeur :sleep:).
<o:p></o:p>
Your absolutely right Gibbage, “Horse Shoes and Hand grenades” but that also means “Almost doesn’t Count”.
<o:p></o:p>
Did somebody say “loan me a pilot”? I just might take you up on that Roger when the time comes. I have played with some figures using bones to place them in position but like I said I just played.
<o:p></o:p>
Back to the spring, I tried your sliding tube method anthony31. Let me see if I can figure out how to post a vid.
<o:p></o:p>
To answer your question hairyspin I use 3ds Max, I started with FSDS and at the time never could get the handle on gMax but when I tried 3ds Max it all came together (self taught). On this spring I used the Create Panel/Dynamic Objects/Spring and made three springs which I converted to polys and made two hooks. Then I just pushed them around using Auto Key till it looked decent.


http://lpad.horizon-host.com/images/spring.avi

[N2056]

Nice animation! :applause:

[anthony31]

That spring looks really cool Paul.

[hairyspin]

"Horse shoes and hand grenades"

lol, thanks for that!

[roger-wilco-66]

You're doing an awesome job on that duck, Paul!
That spring animation looks great!

Cheers,
Mark

[huub vink]

Nice animation Paul!

Huub

[Flame-Prop]

Just can't get enough of Murphy's War - The first flight with the Grumman duck. It's soo wild, the engine coughing away. Icarusgold Grumman duck is not worth 26$ I feel because their VC is nowhere near close to what the one from the movie and their sounds are shot. The external model is not bad however would of been great to have HD textures with chipped away paint, oil stains. I just have in mind A2A simulators as well when writing that. Somehow I felt such a strong connection with this aircraft the moment I watched her fly, crazy. But I am quite amazed by the work at hand here :medals:

Gabe

[lazarus]

quote: ' Icarusgold Grumman duck is not worth 26$ I feel because their VC is nowhere near close to what the one from the movie and their sounds are shot. The external model is not bad however...'
Replace "not" in above statement with 'crazy', and you're in the ballpark. Pauls got it hammered down, so does Swingmans Duck. The Iky-arus... well. Its a biplane with a float. The modeling puts it off into the 'what if (He'd worn glasses and looked at a picture of one when he did this)' category. Despite all the howls of piracy from 'over there', no one would even steal that dog. Nice that there are a couple of excellent Ducks now! BTY. Send Icarus a critical E-mail about it. Not nasty, just a couple of comparison photos. He then freaks out and shuts off all access from the server you're on. All of it, not just a single IP address. If a few hundred folks do this, he will shut off his own access and engineer his own DNS attack, cutting off his own markets. Hehehe.
Keep on keep'in on, Paul.

[Paul Domingue]

I just got the engine out of the shop. I went with the early G series of the R-1820 which was approximately 950 hp. First we installed rods extended 1/8 inch and high dome pistons to boost compression ratio to 9.5 : 1. We had to have the pistons specially made for skirt length and valve flycuts. We bored out the old cast iron cylinders beyond service limit and pressed in high grade steel inserts and used three piece gapless compression rings on the pistons. The intake ports were enlarged and over size silicon carbide valves installed plus high carbon valve seat inserts. We pressed out the old brass rocker arm bushings and replaced them with sealed rollers. She’ll be a bear to start but should put out an extra 180 hp. Now I have to rebuild the Holly. Hey, does anybody know how to set the timing on this thing? :icon_lol:
<o:p>
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</o:p>
The links for the full size pics are here if you want to see more detail but be kind because the textures aren’t quite done yet.
http://lpad.horizon-host.com/images/engine.jpg
http://lpad.horizon-host.com/images/engine2.jpg
http://lpad.horizon-host.com/images/engine3.jpg
http://lpad.horizon-host.com/images/engine4.jpg
<o:p></o:p>
I’m almost ready to reinstall the exterior model in FS, I’ll post an update when I do then I can jump back into the VC work.
<o:p></o:p>
Paul
<o:p></o:p>
Unencumbered by the thought process :sleep:
<o:p></o:p>

[huub vink]

Wow they did a great job in the workshop! It looks like brand new!

Cheers,
Huub

[roger-wilco-66]

A man and his art.... what more can I say.

Nice job in the machine shop!

Cheers,
Mark

PS: To all viewers, click on the external image links, the detail shown there is awesome.

[anthony31]

Awesome detail on the engine Paul!

[N2056]

I'm not sure I'm worthy enough to view this thread after that last batch of pics! :icon_lol:
That engine is freakin' awesome!!! :applause:

[OleBoy]

Paul, I lust that engine detail. OMG!! It looks great!!

[Gibbage]

Great job on the engine! Nice attention to detail, and modeling those headers can be a real pain!

[robcap]

VERY fine piece of work!! Looking forward to it!

[Paul Domingue]

I’m almost done with the exterior model.
<o:p></o:p>
I have been walking around and around it tweaking this adjusting that and playing with textures. Textures are quite new to me but I’m experimenting and learning.
<o:p></o:p>
I finished the main gear. The main gear has been the hardest part of this model for me so far. The design and animation had to be created early in the development of the model because the pontoon and thus the fuselage and all the rest had to all align correctly when retracted. All the parts and pivot points had to be rotated -3.5 degrees from the perpendicular of the line of thrust on the Z axis. This made it a challenge (meaning big pain) when mirroring the animation. The guys at FFDS were of invaluable help when I started tackling the animation and a Max Script (Milviz Mirror Tool) that I got from here was very helpful. I don’t know who wrote it but thanks to who did.

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<o:p></o:p>
The links to full size and additional pictures are here. There is also an AVI if you want to see the animation.

http://lpad.horizon-host.com/images/duck01.jpg
http://lpad.horizon-host.com/images/duck02.jpg
http://lpad.horizon-host.com/images/duck03.jpg
http://lpad.horizon-host.com/images/duck04.jpg
http://lpad.horizon-host.com/images/duck05.jpg
http://lpad.horizon-host.com/images/duck06.jpg
http://lpad.horizon-host.com/images/duck07.jpg
http://lpad.horizon-host.com/images/duck08.jpg
http://lpad.horizon-host.com/images/duck09.jpg
http://lpad.horizon-host.com/images/duck10.jpg
http://lpad.horizon-host.com/images/maingear.avi

Next on the agenda are the armament sets, fragmentation bombs, 100 lb bombs and a depth charge. Also the tow target turbine. Then maybe I can get back to work on the VC.

Paul

[YoYo]

Wow, looks very nice!

[lazarus]

:applause::applause::applause::applause::applause: Whoa!

[Roger]

That is looking so good Paul:ernae:

[greenie]

Did I say that I would buy you a beer ?....make that a carton of beer . Stunning work . Really looking forward to this. Thank you.:applause:

[Barnes]

Wow that does look good. I look foward to buying :jump:

[OleBoy]

Wow that does look good. I look foward to buying :jump:

No need unless things change. Last I read Paul was releasing as freeware. :)

[Jim Goldman]

Paul:

Wonderful work, look forward to seeing the final product.

BTW can you point me inthe right direction to the Script tool by Milviz (Milviz Mirror Tool).

Thank you

Jim

[hairyspin]

The Milviz Mirror tool is here at SOH:- Milviz Mirror Tool (http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?47933-A-present-for-all-devs)

Paul, that main gear animation is a joy to watch! The modelling is a treat too: applause, applause, applause!!

[Barnes]

No need unless things change. Last I read Paul was releasing as freeware. :)

if i get a chance i will willingly donate as it looks better than some current payware products :applause:

[Gibbage]

The Ducks is looking amazing! Will have a nice home waiting in my hanger for it! The landing gear looks almost identical too the F4F's. The F4F was hand cranked though.

[Sundog]

That looks amazing...

But, I think my favorite part is the "Bad Duck" artwork. :)

[jankees]

That looks amazing...

But, I think my favorite part is the "Bad Duck" artwork. :)

I agree completely! Looks outstanding!

[robcap]

I'm stunned. What a great piece of high quality work!!

[huub vink]

You are doing an amazing job Paul! Your engine is for sure one of the best I have ever seen!

Huub

[Paul Domingue]

No need unless things change. Last I read Paul was releasing as freeware. :)


In all the years I have been flying Microsoft Flight Simulator the thing that really made it enjoyable was all the freeware add-ons people made, this is my giving back amongst other things provided I get it done.
<o:p></o:p>
I’m enjoying test flying it. Screen shots.
525965259752598525995260052601

[ZsoltB]

When will it be available?

This is awesome!
Congratulations on your work! :medals:

[Paul Domingue]

The landing gear looks almost identical too the F4F's. The F4F was hand cranked though.

This is from the <ST1:date 8/13/1939 revision of the J2F -4 and -5 maintenance manual. I’m not sure how I will simulate the hand cranked gear retraction in FSX.
<o:p>52667 </o:p>
I’m torn between the Grumman F4F and the Colombia XJL-1 as my next project. The F4F is tempting because the parts are the same as the J2F in respect to the gear and wings.
Note the disc brakes on this F4F. They are an upgrade installed by the restorer. The original brake system was a standard automotive hydraulic shoe brake with Borg Warner parts.
<o:p>52668</o:p>
<st1:City><st1:place>Columbia</st1:place></st1:City> took over production of the J2F during the war while Grumman concentrated on fighters. There were only two XJL-1s built and test flown then they were forgotten and disappeared from aviation history.
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[Gibbage]

Well if you dont take the F4F, its on my list of possible next projects after the Seabee is done. I really like the stubby guy, and I already have one modeled with over 10 million polygons! (NOT a flight sim model)

[Paul Domingue]

Well if you dont take the F4F, its on my list of possible next projects after the Seabee is done. I really like the stubby guy, and I already have one modeled with over 10 million polygons! (NOT a flight sim model)

That settles it. I was leaning towards the Columbia. I'd love to see the one with 10m polys.

[Sundog]

Are you guys actually talking about an F4F, the Wildcat, or the plane shown in the pic above, which is an F3F? I like both, I just want to be sure which one I should be excited about. ;)

[Paul Domingue]

My bad, I typed 4 when I ment 3 and that puts me back onto the F3F instead of the XJL-1 for my next project if Gabbage was talking about the Wildcat.

[Gibbage]

Ya. Right now im strongly leaning twards an F4F (Wildcat) as my next project. I dont mean to hyjack this thread though.

5289652897

On my old model, every fin on every cylinder head is modeled. Even the panel lines and rivits are modeled. There is NO WAY FSX can handle this model, but its an amazing reference and you can also bake normals from the high polygon mesh. Even each chain link on the gear retraction is modeled. Its that detailed.

[mal998]

Gotta' love those Grummans (and Republics too).

Next Project? F3F puleeze!

We haven't had a first rate version of this iconic plane for FSX, and there are loads of paint schemes for the F3F.

Yep, that would be my choice! Here is a great little video on the "Flying Barrel" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Os19XiWGDjs

Thanks for the Duck and thanks in advance for the F3F (I hope). :-)

[Paul Domingue]

Gibbage,
<o:p> </o:p>
That looks fantastic, you get the feeling you can run your hand down the surface and feel all the rivets. The engine is excellent very nice visual model. When can we expect textures? BTW, it’s not a highjack just a general discussion and I don’t see the point of starting a new thread.
<o:p> </o:p>
Mal998,
<o:p> </o:p>
I loved the video and had to play it a couple of times, not to watch but to listen. I’m a music buff of the era and hearing the vocals of Al Bowlly with the Ray Noble Band singing “The Very Thought of You” was a pure joy. This link is going right into my F3F reference folder. When I get through with the Duck I’ll go to work in earnest on the Grumman F3F-1.

[Paul Domingue]

It’s been asked. My avatar is a picture of me taken in June of this year. The Carl Vinson (CVN-70) is in the background having just docked in <st1:place>Pearl Harbor</st1:place> after getting rid of the remains of that infamous person. The cap is VFA-22 “The Fighting Redcocks”, my sons squadron.

[Roger]

Can't wait for the Duck and fantastic to see an F3F coming too!:applause:

[mal998]

Paul, glad you enjoyed the vid.

Hats off to you and your son and The Carl Vinson! I and many others anxiously await the Duck and then the F3F.

Most appreciated to be sure!

[Gibbage]

Dont expect textures on the F4F for quite some time. Im knee deep in Seabee right now and wont start production on the F4F till I finish the Seabee and confirm with the rest of my crew on what we want to do next.

[OleBoy]

I stumbled on this photo and thought I would share. Excellent in B&W.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-2I_gGkdv6io/Tf1l0X1HLdI/AAAAAAAABsE/XYSVG0Iof0w/s1600/J2F+3+NAS+Jax+1940.jpg

[Paul Domingue]

That’s a nice picture of the J2F-3 as seen on the tail. The JF-2, J2F-1, J2f-2 J2F-3 and J2F-4 all sported the short cord cowl. I wish I could see what air station is written on it, probably NAS Norfolk. Some models of the -3 had a forward firing machine gun mounted behind the engine and fired between the cylinders. The forward machine gun was removed with the introduction of the J2F-5 and the short cord cowl replaced with the long cowl.<o:p></o:p>

[Cirrus N210MS]

here is photo of the Duck that Was A EAA

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-E7EG1W2UIl0/TtWNedRqE1I/AAAAAAAADb0/MTG-nVeCrTM/s800/DSC00669.JPG

[Sieggie]

That’s a nice picture of the J2F-3 as seen on the tail. The JF-2, J2F-1, J2f-2 J2F-3 and J2F-4 all sported the short cord cowl. I wish I could see what air station is written on it, probably NAS Norfolk.


Here is another picture of the same aircraft

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:J2F-3_NAS_Jax_16Jan1940.jpg

[OleBoy]

That’s a nice picture of the J2F-3 as seen on the tail. The JF-2, J2F-1, J2f-2 J2F-3 and J2F-4 all sported the short cord cowl. I wish I could see what air station is written on it, probably NAS Norfolk. Some models of the -3 had a forward firing machine gun mounted behind the engine and fired between the cylinders. The forward machine gun was removed with the introduction of the J2F-5 and the short cord cowl replaced with the long cowl.<o:p></o:p>


Have a gander here. I'm surprised you didn't catch the name of the screen shot! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:J2F-3_NAS_Jax_1940-2.jpg

[Paul Domingue]

I posted a question about 3ds Max on the FSDeveloper Forum if anyone is interested, just looking for answers as I am an impatient sort of fellow. :jump:

http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showthread.php?t=141206

[Paul Domingue]

Forget my last post. I’m embarrassed to say I just didn’t look deep enough for the answer. A simple right click of the mouse and bingo there it is. A big dope slap is needed.

[warchild]

Ok, soo, I got to take the lil lady up today.. What I expected was the typical.. Pitch rate of 180 degrees per second, roll rate 0f 360 degrees in 0.25 seconds, you know, the usual rough and tumble flight model.. Man was I wrong.. For someone who claims not to be an expert on flight models, Paul has done an amazing job. I've added just the barest touch of fine tuning, and this plane flies awesomely.. a totally enjoyable experience.. I'm going to keep running tests on her, but frankly, i'm beginning to think Pauls flight model is as complete as it needs to be to replicate the plane.. Its beautiful ( He even got the MAC correct.. Im amazed )..
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[Paul Domingue]

I'm getting that warm and fuzzy feeling.

Been playing Rosie the Riviter with the canopy and being real anal about it, can't help myself.

The prop motion looks like crap to me so it's next.

I can't thank you enough for your help Warchild.

[warchild]

I'm getting that warm and fuzzy feeling.

Been playing Rosie the Riviter with the canopy and being real anal about it, can't help myself.

The prop motion looks like crap to me so it's next.

I can't thank you enough for your help Warchild.

::chuckles:: Yeahh, but your sound pack is dead on.. Wait till you see how slowly it idles now. Matches the sound perfectly..
No worries about thanking me :).. You have a great lil plane here, so i should be thanking you. I'm really enjoying it...
Pam

[OleBoy]

A neat photo. http://www.uscg.mil/history/img/air/BurkeAmphibian001.jpg

[hairyspin]

A neat photo. http://www.uscg.mil/history/img/air/BurkeAmphibian001.jpg

Oooh shouldn't have done that, you can count the rivets in that pic.....

[jankees]

very neat photo!

[Paul Domingue]

Great picture and it is going into my collection of reference material.
RIVITS! You'll have fun counting them on my duck. I'm in the middle of textering the canopy with rivits.

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Now if somebody can teach me how to make a decent bump map I'll be happy.

[PutPut]

Send me a copy if you find out!

Best, Paul

[Paul Domingue]

PutPut,

As soon as I know, you'll know. :guinness:

[PutPut]

PutPut,

As soon as I know, you'll know. :guinness:

Many Thanks. I have tried several of the published methods and am not really happy with the results. The Duck should be a great example for trial and error. My real beef is with rivets on a reflective surface. The rivets seem to come out over done if I use a normal map. (That is the real name for a "bump" map). This might be a problem with the way FSX does reflections; I always thought they looked better in FS9.

Enjoy the Holidays! Paul

[OleBoy]

I've found that when making bump maps (mainly rivets), no matter the size, or the dropped shadow, there is always bleed by in the final results when it's viewed in FSX. The results appear to be what looks like squares approximately 4-pixels radius around every rivet. I found that on the average, the dropped shadow causes the most of it. Now, this may sound utterly CRAZY, but, the bleed by can be removed with a very tedious procedure of erasing the anti-aliased areas out. I also found that the best way to do this, is once you physically get all of the rivets done, place a black background layer underneath to be able to see what I'm talking about. Then, start (one by one) erasing the anti-aliased bits out from around them. :173go1:

To make rivets:

black for the rivet.
white or very very light gray for the dropped shadow.

From there, it's trial and error as to what looks good when it's in FSX.

You'll get the hang of it.

[Paul Domingue]

I’ve read through the SDK over and over again. I read this nice tut on normal maps from FSDeveloper http://www.fsdeveloper.com/wiki/index.php?title=Normal_map_creation (http://www.fsdeveloper.com/wiki/index.php?title=Normal_map_creation). I’ve tried every which way and nada, nothing, I see absolutely no change in the textures in FSX. Would somebody take me by the hand, walk me through it and talk to me like I’m a six year old? I’ missing something and I have no idea what it is. I used the Nvidia tools in Photoshop and the Imagetool in the SDK, I just don’t get it.
<o:p></o:p>
On the lighter side, I’ve reworked the arrestor hook and will soon try out a carrier landing. Forward visibility in this aircraft was not the greatest so I’ll probably have to use the same approach procedures as the F4U pilots used and the Duck has a lot of side slip so it should be very interesting.
<o:p></o:p>
I’m back to work on the VC which is a good thing since it needs a lot of work that I have been putting off while putzing with the externals and BUMP MAPS *&#$$%. I need to sit down and read up on 3d gauges (oh boy something else to learn).
<o:p></o:p>
Warchild (the sweetheart that she is) has been working her magic on the flight dynamics. She says the more she flies this aircraft the more she is falling in love with it.
<o:p></o:p>
My son who is off with VFA-22 on deployment asked if I would be done with the Duck by the time he returned in May so that is my goal. I hope I can meet up to the challenge.
<o:p></o:p>
Here are a few screen shots.

54652546535465454655

[N2056]

Bump maps are not that hard. While I have a "system" that I use that does not use Photoshop I am sure we can get something working for you. I'll be around on Teamspeak later today. :wavey:

[OleBoy]

I was hoping you'd pop in here, Rob. Your method is lickety-split=DONE!

[Roger]

Paul,
She's looking more gorgeous every time I see her:ernae:

[Dangerousdave26]

I can find a few different ways to do it in Gimp so we should be able to figure out how to do it in Photoshop.

Tako_kichi is the photoshoper amongst us.

[N2056]

Good news to report. Paul and I spent the evening messing with it, and it turned out to be a missing specular value. Now that he has this behind him I'm looking forward to seeing what he does! :jump:

[Dangerousdave26]

I bet it won't look like this :icon_lol:

You guys beat me to it but I was getting close.

[Paul Domingue]

I'm as tickled as can be, thanks to N2056 and a few others spending a little time with me on the normal map setup. I had every thing correct except in the material editor. I had left the specular value at full white (255) droped it down to 122 and bingo it worked. I knew it had to be something simple I overlooked. I didn't experiment to much last night but I did want just a subtle hint of a bump and I am pleased with what I have so far. Thanks to all of you who have been so helpful in this project.

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[warchild]

let me get that flight model too you tomorrow.. was going to do it today, but i got sidetracked real bad.. sorry..
Pam

[Paul Domingue]

Warchild, take your time , there is no rush. If you make it fly like I expect you will I'll spend to much time in it instead of in Max. :jump:

[robcap]

That is a really great pic, Paul.

[Paul Domingue]

I have to try making my own 3d gauges so last night I found a picture of an original engine gauge (actually out of a P51 but the same one as in the Duck). I used that nifty GaugeFace program by Gerry Howard for the faceplate. It took about an hour to make along with the textures. Now I need to learn about coding the gauge.

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<o:p></o:p>
On another note, I found pictures of the oxygen regulator that we had talked about earlier in this thread. I need to find where it is mounted, I would imagine it was directly attached to the bottle but I’m not sure. I do know it was on the left side in easy access for the pilot. I also found a beautiful picture of the original short wave radio that was used by the navigator.

5493054929
<o:p></o:p>
Warchild just sent me an update on the flight dynamics which I am excited to try out. I can’t thank her enough.
<o:p></o:p>
I feel like its Christmas and I’m a child unwrapping my gifts.
<o:p></o:p>
Happy Holidays to all my friends @ SOH! :guinness:

Paul <o:p></o:p>

[robcap]

The gauge looks great!

Happy holidays to you too, Paul, enjoy your FM gift, and I hope we can enjoy your gift soon too.

R.

[Roger]

Wow, I can't believe that's your first attempt at modelling a gauge!!

Have a great holiday Paul:ernae:

[huub vink]

Like Roger said!
:jawdrop:

[warchild]

thats looking fantastic Paul :).. All my very best hopes you get it working :)..

[OleBoy]

Paul, it's neat to see someone like you jump into a hobby with both feet. Eager to do what others do by putting your best foot forward. All ahead full buddy!! I respect your enthusiasm for the love of flight, and the minor details that make flight simulator more enjoyable to the eye.

I can only dream, and wonder what it would be like, if we all did it that way. :)

[N2056]

Nice gauge!
Now we must give your creation LIFE! :icon_lol:

[papab]

Any updates on this amazing aircraft?
Rick

[Paul Domingue]

I was working on a problem area, primarily the prop and started to get frustrated. When this happens I have to walk away from it for a while but I don’t stop modeling. I have several other models and two, besides the Duck, well into development so I pulled one off the shelf and continued work on it.
<o:p> </o:p>
I have too much time invested in the Duck not to continue working on it; I just needed a break from it. Warchild has tweaked an excellent FDE for the Duck and it is fun to fly even with an unfinished VC. I have been experimenting with glass textures, in this case Plexiglas, to get the refraction effect of light passing through a solid.

<o:p>57417 57418
</o:p>
If you’re interested in what the other model I pulled off the shelf is you can get a hint of it here. http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?62164-Russian-(Interceptor)-Interpreter (http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?62164-Russian-(Interceptor)-Interpreter)

[warchild]

the reflections are looking good Paul. I like the sunset reflection. To me, sunset has always been the saddest, loneliest part of the day, but also the most beautiful..
As for the other model, i've got more than my fingers crossed. The complexity of the flight characteristics make the F-22 look like a cessna. Truthfully, i'm scared ****less. I keep praying that some programmer/hacker who wants a real challenge will volunteer to do our fly by wire interpreter for us..

[papab]

Paul,
Thanks for the update!
Beautiful aircraft and I know it will be done when it's done!


Looking forward to having the Duck in my hanger......


Rick

[OleBoy]

Your progress looks to be going well, all things considered. I can offer moral support by tipping my glass in your honor. I'll save the bottle for christening day. :salute: