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HouseHobbit
July 31st, 2011, 12:19
I was just given these from a WW2 vet who brought them back at the end of WW2..
He collected these in (Airbase) (navy base) beer halls around Germany during the last days of WW2 along with several German beer steins..

He gave this to me because No one in his family (grandkids) were interested in this at all..
Now I am not sure what I have, or if they are of any value..
Have a look all..

stuartcox
July 31st, 2011, 13:11
He gave this to me because No one in his family (grandkids) were interested in this at all..
Now I am not sure what I have, or if they are of any value..
Have a look all..

What an ignorant family...

If you could trace back the history of the individuals mentioned on the mugs, the function they had during the war, maybe with documents and photos, then the value would massively increase.
Nice collection, just a shame that any Nazi memorabilia cannot be sold in Germany!
I bet there are some enthusiasts wanting to get their hands on those and do some research, a great memory of a very sad time...!

Willy
July 31st, 2011, 13:14
Otto Kretschmer was a famous U-boat captain (U-99). Heinz Bar was a fighter pilot (JG-51). Never heard of the guy on the first stein.

stuartcox
July 31st, 2011, 13:49
The first mug is related to the Schleppgruppe 4, based on the Eastern front from 1942 flying He-111's! Great find, and quite rear!
I looked up the name without any success.

Flyboy208
July 31st, 2011, 15:21
I have several Third Reich items in my collection, from what I see here, you might have some very valuable steins. I would try contacting the people at www.oakleafmilitaria.com or www.germanmilitaria.com ... Mike :salute:

robert41
July 31st, 2011, 15:26
Great collection househobbit. Iam surprised no one in your friend's family had no interest in these. There are several WW2 artifact websites, should be able to get some good information on these.

Sascha66
July 31st, 2011, 15:51
Heinz Bär was one of the top aces of the Luftwaffe, with 220 confirmed aerial victories.
This puts him at #8 of Luftwaffe aces. He commanded JV44 flying Me262 jets at the end of the war, following Walter Nowotny. He claimed 16 jet kills, 124 kills on the West Front in total and 96 on the East front. He was shot down 18 times, and killed in 1957 in a flying accident working as a test pilot.

He held the Knight's Cross with Oak Leaves and Swords (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knight%27s_Cross_of_the_Iron_Cross#Knight.27s_Cros s_with_Oak_Leaves_and_Swords_.28mit_Eichenlaub_und _Schwertern.29).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_B%C3%A4r
http://acepilots.com/german/ger_aces.html
http://www.starduststudios.com/heinz_b%C3%A4r.htm


Korvettenkapitän Otto Kretschmer was the top german U-Boat ace of WWII, even though he was captured after U-99 was sunk on 17th March 1941.

After surviving the war as a POW, he went on to serve in the German post-war fleet, attaining the rank of Commodore.

He also held the Knights Cross with Oak Leaves and Swords (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knight%27s_Cross_of_the_Iron_Cross).

As far as I know, beer steins were presented to soldiers by their comrades to commerate promotions, awards, etc.

I assume it is possible that these are actual steins presented to these men, on the occasion of their promotion to Hauptmann (Heinz Bär) and Korvettenkapitän (Otto Kretschmer).

That would be pretty amazing!

:isadizzy::isadizzy::isadizzy::isadizzy::isadizzy: :isadizzy:

Flyboy208
July 31st, 2011, 17:05
The mug in your first image is named to an OFW - Oberfeldwebel - Staff Sergeant in English terms , Otto's mug features a Kriegsmarine U-Boat War badge, and Heinz Bar's mug displays a Knights Cross w/ Oakleaves and swords ... perhaps to signify that award ...

Bottom line for me, I would NOT sell these items, despite any misgivings about their origins, and especially if they are original and authentic, they are priceless items from WWII history, especially with the Personalities attributed to them ... You don't have to subscribe to political views associated with such artifacts - purely historical ...
and if you want to donate them to my collection ? Just kidding !

Mike :kilroy:

HouseHobbit
July 31st, 2011, 17:15
To be honest the photos don't do these justice.
They are very orante, the vet said he picked them up a different airbases and a naval shipyard In 1945..Lots of Nazi and german proof marks on the bottoms..

He gave me several beer steins also from various places around Germany also pre- WW2 stuff..
I have been his friend for 30+ years, and No one in his family had any interest in any of the "Old" WW2 stuff..
So it looks like I now have several items I have no idea about..

CWOJackson
July 31st, 2011, 18:28
Very nice Hobbit,

I recently had a neighbor pass away. Because I'd take care of their lawn, his wife gave me something to remember him by. A Walther he liberated from the factory in the closing days of the war. He had it nickle plated when he got home and kept it in excellent condition.

She gave it to me because she didn't believe any of their children/grand children would appreciate the historical significance of it.

HouseHobbit
July 31st, 2011, 19:19
A few more shots of these..They are pretty..

stiz
July 31st, 2011, 22:45
intresting for sure!

is that a characture of a BV 138 in the last pic?

OBIO
August 1st, 2011, 09:19
intresting for sure!

is that a characture of a BV 138 in the last pic?

Looks like a BV-138 to me. I've been working on Ito's BV-138 for FS9, so the shape of the plane jumped out at me.

OBIO

GT182
August 1st, 2011, 16:15
Hobbit, those steins are quite valuable. Be careful of any offers made for any of them.... get them appraised asap. I'd say you is one lucky Hobbit to be handed a collection like that. Congrats to ya. :applause:

And I know a few lads on a certain sub forum that would go bananas over the U-99 stein. Can you post a photo of the bottom of it please?

Wittpilot
August 1st, 2011, 18:00
Hobbit, for what its worth.... I don't know anything about this website, but this looks similar to some of yours, and somebody posted on their he has seen them go up to $400 a piece!

http://aq.ioffer.com/offer_transactions/show/15254690

HouseHobbit
August 1st, 2011, 22:09
Hobbit, for what its worth.... I don't know anything about this website, but this looks similar to some of yours, and somebody posted on their he has seen them go up to $400 a piece!

http://aq.ioffer.com/offer_transactions/show/15254690

WOW!! Wittpilot,
this is what I have several of.
I didn't know anything about this until now..
Thanks very much..
:applause: :applause: :applause:
I have three of these I am surprised..

mrogers
August 2nd, 2011, 00:59
Wow...handle them with care, Househobbit, they"re historical artifacts, priceless stuff. I cant believe that the man's family didnt appreciate the historical value of them.
How ignorant.

Cazzie
August 2nd, 2011, 06:28
Those things are priceless historical artifacts HH, treat them with extreme care. They would demand a gold's ransom at an Antique's Roadshow, if you are ever strapped for cash. Just saying. But do take care of those for the old man, those soldiers worked like no man today works, save a combat vet to get those rewards.

Caz

SpitXIV
August 2nd, 2011, 11:35
I would go to ebay and see if there're any of those listed and maybe it would give you
some idea of what they are worth. As stated earlier don't sell any until you get them
appraised. Do you have any with the lids attached?

HouseHobbit
August 2nd, 2011, 12:46
There is Nothing like them on Ebay or craigs list..

I beginning to think these are very rare, and perhaps something not many have ever seen..
Whittpilot has shown me a site with one like these for sale..Thank You very much..

And I am very surprised that there isn't much information on these..
It does look like these were made as "rewards" for the people who's names were on them, and given to honor a event for the people..

I have never see anything like these until a few of the wonderful folks here at SOH
pointed out what I have..
I am very surprised at all of this..

I spoke to the gentleman who gave them to me today, and asked if he had any more information on these, he said He didn't remember where each of them came from..
But that they there collected during his travels looking for works of Art for the US army..
From several airbases and a naval base UP North in Germany..

I told him that there were folks that might be interested in buying these, and He told me to do with them as I pleased..They were now mine..
God Bless him..

Bushpounder
August 2nd, 2011, 14:04
Man! What a GIFT!!! If you want to HH, visit this site. This is a no-nonsense historical site. I am sure someone there can tell you about these. Many there are true experts about the Dritte Reich.

http://forum.axishistory.com/

Don

Wittpilot
August 2nd, 2011, 14:14
Hobbit.... I don't know anything off the top of my head around here, but I'd have to imagine there is someone out there with a specialty in things like "fine china" and may be able to help you put some type of value on it....

If I were in your shoes I would not part with them until you know their true value. If you have someone to pass them onto, consider it...

Pauke! Pauke!
August 2nd, 2011, 16:00
HouseHobbit:

You might want to call this appraiser. I've seen his work on PBS shows such as "The Antigue Road Show" and "History Detectives" His name is C. Wesley Cowan. His specialties are Photographs, Arms & Militaria, Decorative Arts. He has an auction company, Cowan's Auctions, Inc. in Cincinnati, Ohio. The phone number is 513-871-1670 and there are a couple websites below on him and his company. I picked him because he appears to be close to you in Ohio. Also I hope you will tell him the human interest story about the gentleman that gave them to you, especially if he is a WWII veteran.

There could be a TV show in this, I'm thinking "History Detectives" working on authenticating the steins of Heinz Bär and/or Otto Kretschmer. At least talk to someone in the office of the Auction company. They may be able to send you to someone that is a specialist to authenticate what you have.

Good luck...and I hope to see you on TV. If they are authentic, I'm sure they have value. An appriaser should be able to tell you a range.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/roadshow/appraisers/cowan_cwesley.html

http://www.cowanauctions.com/

Ickie
August 2nd, 2011, 16:06
History Detectives only look into american stuff/history

Flyboy208
August 2nd, 2011, 16:17
Another good website you might want to get in touch with ...

www.themarshalsbaton.com .... They mainly specialize in General / Admiral items, but also have an emphasis on Personality related items ...


Mike :salute:

HouseHobbit
August 2nd, 2011, 16:24
Thanks Guys,
I will make some calls and see what I can make of this..
To be honest this is well past anything I have ever dealt with..
REALLY Baffled over this..
I have them now in a safe, you would have never told me I would have Ever stored Beer steins in my safe..
This is getting really crazy!!!

:jawdrop: :jawdrop: :jawdrop:

Thanks to all for your kind advice, I am again in debt to my SOH family..
God Bless you all..

Pauke! Pauke!
August 2nd, 2011, 16:42
History Detectives only look into american stuff/history

On the whole you are correct but the story of the American WWII Veteran collecting them just before the end of the war might have some appeal and that could be show worthy. Also, are we certain they are authentic? Most likely they are. The way they are authenticated could be interesting. It's just a thought and the Auction company should be able to give HouseHobbit some information or direct him to someone who can. I would hope that he could get 2 opinons at least so he has a sense of what he really has. Hey Hobbit come out to Las Vegas with a couple of the steins and go to the Gold and Silver Pawn Shop at 713 Las Vegas Boulevard South, Las Vegas, NV 89101-6755 <NOBR>(702) 530-5901.

</NOBR><NOBR>Maybe they'll put you on "Pawn Stars" on the History Channel.</NOBR><NOBR></NOBR><NOBR></NOBR><NOBR></NOBR> ‎ :mixedsmi::mixedsmi::mixedsmi::mixedsmi:

HouseHobbit
August 2nd, 2011, 16:57
Thanks all,
Your concern is very touching..
No I don't want to be on any crazy show..
Yea, Ugly little hobbits don't do well in the limelight..

I would like to see some good come from this..
I am blessed and I am grateful..
This has gotten to a CRAZY point to me..

I do hope somehow whatever the outcome, that those who would want something like this, can have it..
No I am not saying I want MONEY!!

But to be honest I think I might be happier without these right now..

When folks say That is a wonderful thing Yes I agree, But not something I am prepared for..Or ever would have prayed for..

I live a modest life, and are Grateful for the little blessings often I receive.

This is way out of anything I have ever experienced, and I am taken back by it all..

Thanks all very much for you kind advice and wonderful help on this..
God Bless each of You..

BurningBeard
August 2nd, 2011, 17:02
I would say, loan them to a museum.....soon. That way they are responsible for them and they will be protected. Other people can enjoy them and you will be able to recover them when you want. After all you aren't going to drink beer out of them and you had better not take the chance to let friends do it ;)

Beard

CWOJackson
August 2nd, 2011, 17:06
I would say, loan them to a museum.....soon. That way they are responsible for them and they will be protected. Other people can enjoy them and you will be able to recover them when you want. After all you aren't going to drink beer out of them and you had better not take the chance to let friends do it ;)

Beard

That is an excellent suggestion.

Pauke! Pauke!
August 2nd, 2011, 17:42
I do hope somehow whatever the outcome, that those who would want something like this, can have it..
No I am not saying I want MONEY!!

But to be honest I think I might be happier without these right now..

HouseHobit: There is a Luftwaffe Museum in Berlin.

http://www.aviationmuseum.eu/World/Europe/Germany/Berlin-Gatow/Luftwaffe_Museum.htm

There is a U-Boat Archive in Cuxhaven-Altenbruck.

http://www.deutsches-u-boot-museum.com/home.html

They might be interested in taking them as a donation. You may not have to go so far abroad as Germany. The US Airforce Museum is close to you for the Luftwaffe steins. The Chicago Museum of Science and Industry has U-505 perhaps they might want the Kreigsmarine stein. Don't sweat this HouseHobbit. If providence has but these articles into your hands it is because you have a good heart and will do the right thing. That could be selling them and using the money well or some other course. Think of it as a little adventure and enjoy the journey. It's not like you've found the Ring of Power. LOL!

:jump::mixedsmi::jump::mixedsmi:

Wittpilot
August 2nd, 2011, 17:56
I mean absolutely no disrespect to the USAFM, but...... if the thought of donating these great steins to here in Dayton crosses your mind, I hope you'd reconsider. They have thousands of artifacts and we only get to see a very very small portion of that as visitors... Yes they would be preserved , but I'd bet my bottom dollar that they may never see the light of day again. f you decide to donate them somewhere, make sure it's someplace that will truly appreciate what they are getting and ensure they will be on display somewhere. I have a specific artifact that sits in my old bedroom in my parents house that museums might find quite desireable, but it is my intention to keep it out of a museums hands for as long as possible....

Flyboy208
August 2nd, 2011, 18:24
And one more possible Collector site you might want to contact, The Wolfe-Hardin Collection ...

http://www.wolfehardin.com/index.html

Cheers! Mike :wavey:

Naismith
August 2nd, 2011, 21:37
How about tracking down families of their original owners. There may be a widow or offspring who would be gratified to at least know that their loved ones drinking vessel is in safe hands.
You never know you may make a friend for life and get a trip to Germany out of it.

Willy
August 2nd, 2011, 22:18
How about tracking down families of their original owners. There may be a widow or offspring who would be gratified to at least know that their loved ones drinking vessel is in safe hands.
You never know you may make a friend for life and get a trip to Germany out of it.

I like this idea if you are going to give them away anyway.

CWOJackson
August 3rd, 2011, 08:44
I like this idea if you are going to give them away anyway.

That's a noble suggestion but might be next to impossible. I don't know which mug this bottom shot came from

45132

but, it does appear to have an issue number. Unless the individual names/units on the side of the mug were added later, that suggests this is part of a limited edition run. Unless some very detailed sales records were maintained, and could be tracked to the resulting current day family, it could be difficult to identify who purchased a single mug from a run of at least five digits.

To toss out one thought of my own, any of the mugs involving U-Boats could possibly be of interest to the Museum of Science in Chicago to add to their U-505 exhibit. It would contribute to that exhibit and been seen by many people.

HouseHobbit
August 3rd, 2011, 12:02
Hey all I decided to part with these, if they are worth anything we shall see..
I don't expect to get rich,(don't have that kind of greed) and would most pleased to see these in the hands of someone who would want them..
Thought about giving them to the Air force Museum, But as I already know, they have warehouses full of items that will never see the light of the day..

I worked with the Historical society here for many years in Downtown Dayton, like the Air force museum they had thousands of items that wold never be seen by anyone..
So I will sell these to someone who would like to have them..
And be rid of this..
It was proven to be more then I expected and I am grateful for the kind advice given..
Thanks Guys..
God bless you all..