Need advice about Vertigo model and using carrier in FSX

[P38man]

I was thinking that for carrier ops in FSX the SBD Dauntless from Vertigo Studios would be the best bet for a WW2 aircraft in FSX. I chose it because I believe it is the only one from Vertigo that has complex engine management?

I was thinking of setting it up for us with this WW2 Carrier:
http://www.flyingstations.com/victorious.html


Anyone think another Vertigo model is better in FSX that can be used for carrier-based ops ?

Can this or another plane be easily used with the carrier ? Anyone have a config file to use with aicarriers2 ?

My research has found
1) can use http://www.simviation.com/cgi-bin/syb2.cgi?section=misc&file=aicarriers2.zip
2) If you have any (even one) FS9 AI Traffic files (eg World of AI) convert them using a utility or the Victorius will not show although you could delete the ai traffic file for it which I think would work but then you would not have the challenge of finding the moving carrier without making your own file for it in FS9 format.
3) Under "Program files \ AICarriers \ conf.d" you need to make a text file. Call it flyingstations.cfg and put this info in it:
[formation.0]
title=HMS Victorious Early WW2 (Single)
unit.0=Victorious_1940, 0, 0

[SkippyBing]

It’s not just the Victorious, if you have any FS9 AI traffic files they’ll stop all the FSX traffic files from showing.

The text you’ve got should work fine for a cfg file for AI Carriers, just save is as a cfg file in the conf.d directory and it should show up as an option next time you start FSX and AI Carriers.

[P38man]

Thanks. Also:

1) Does anyone have a config for the Vertigo Dauntless to use aicarriers2 ?

2) Is the Dauntless the only Vertigo model with complex engine management ?

[lazarus]

Bruce fitzgeralds CV-6, Mike Davies Essex. SBD's flew for a short time from Escort carriers before being bounced off for TBMs, and I'm sure lots of SBD's hit the decks of the Independence CVL. Do you mean AICarrier formation stuff?

[P38man]

Yes and thanks for your help mate - I mean do I need a config file to make the landing hook work on the carrier for the Vertigo Dauntless ?

(Using the carrier Victorious and the Aicarriers2 program)

Wow...do you mean it is possible to set up a fleet ?

I would dearly love a fleet of ships with the Victorious to go up and down the coast near Orbx'x PNW.

Can it be done ?????!!!!

[TARPSBird]

I would dearly love a fleet of ships with the Victorious to go up and down the coast near Orbx'x PNW. Can it be done ?????!!!!

Yes, it can be done and you already have the gist of how to do it via the AICarriers utility if you simply want to drop a task group down 5 or 10 miles ahead of your plane and start flight ops. You don't really need a dedicated cfg file in the conf.d folder, all you need is to add the composition of your group as the next formation # in the aicarriers.cfg file, for example:

[formation.10]
title=HMS Victorious
unit.0=Victorious_1940, 0, 0
unit.1=VEH_destroyer01, 600, -100
unit.2=VEH_destroyer01, 0, 600

title is how you want the formation to show as a selection. unit.X is the name from the ship's sim.cfg file. The two number values position each ship relative to the ship you select as the centerpiece unit, in this case Victorious (0, 0). First # is port (-) or starboard (+), second # is ahead (+) or astern (-). I think the numbers represent yards or meters. Experiment a bit and you'll see how it works. :)

[bruce448]

The VS SBD already has tailhook settings in the cfg, but here is a mod that I have done to slightly adjust the position of the hook end and to add the cat assist,

Open the aircraft.cfg with Notepad

and modify the [Tailhook] section to look like this

[TailHook]
tailhook_length = 2.000000
tailhook_position = -16.000, 0.000, -0.200//-15.000, 0.000, -1.000
cable_force_adjust = 0.68//1.000000

[LSO]
LSOAdjustSpeed = 1.200000


and add the following lines


[launch_assistance]
launch_bar_pivot = 2.41,0.00,-1.3
launch_bar_lug = 7.083333,0.00,-5.50





Bruce

[P38man]

Thank you both so much guys!

Wait a sec - don't need to edit the traffic.bgl because I can just dump the Victorious ahead of me? Should I install it without the traffic.bgl then ?

Will it be moving ?

[TARPSBird]

I have not yet attempted to set up any carrier using a traffic.bgl file. With AICarriers Vic and her task group will be stationary when you make your selection. Then select 1 - Forward on the "Moves" screen (see screen shot) and the ships will get underway and the wake, bow wave and smoke effects will kick in. On the same screen you'll see the options for turning the ships or moving them to a waypoint. I haven't messed with the waypoint option. So if you're staying overhead your ships you can just eyeball where they're headed and maneuver them as you see fit. :)

[SkippyBing]

Wait a sec - don't need to edit the traffic.bgl because I can just dump the Victorious ahead of me? Should I install it without the traffic.bgl then ?

You shouldn't need to edit the traffic.bgl anyway, it just sits in the Scenery/World/Scenery folder and generates the Vic if you happen to be nearby*.

The traffic.bgl won't interfere with the operation of AI Carriers so you can have both options, i.e. the ship following fixed routes around the world and being able to place one wherever you want for some deck landing training. The challenge with the fixed routes is trying to find the damn thing...

*Nearby is somewhere between 64 and 96km if my reading of the SDK is correct, FSX will remove any AI traffic beyond that to maintain performance. This doesn't affect AI Carriers generated objects which will remain in the Sim World until you delete them/close FSX, certainly I've got >500nm from a carrier and gone back and found it.

[P38man]

All of the information above is going to be used by me.

I thank you all so much for your help.

THANKS!

[sketchy]

Hi P38 Man,

If you want a Carrier for the Avenger this should do you well, a late WW2 HMS Victorious and her escorts which should be available for download within a couple of days from FlyingStations.com.

Best

Sketchy.

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p201/sketchy74/Vic10.jpg

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p201/sketchy74/Vic09.jpg

[TARPSBird]

p38man,
Just a couple more items that may be of interest to you since you're working with placing carriers...
(1) This thread: http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?54718-Moving-Ships-what-s-the-big-deal
(2) Lamont Clark's AI Boat Traffic Compiler utility: http://lc0277.gratisim.fr/boat/
AIBTC uses positional data from Google Earth to build .bgl files that move carriers and whatever other boat/ship traffic you want to set up. Haven't used it yet so can't comment but others have gotten good results from it. Have fun. :)

[P38man]

This is ridiculous!

You are all very kind.

Found this important setting from the above link, thanks TARPSBird for all your help!

[Realism]
CatapultForceLimiter=0 //Enables the catapult systems to generate the required force for any type of aircraft

The Victorious rules - well done and thanks Flyingstations!!

Speechless.......a very humble thank you.

[P38man]

I have run into a small issue.

When I land the Vertigo SBD Dauntless on the deck of the Victorious Carrier the arresting hook doesn't catch anything (tried many times). What am I doing wrong ?

I lowered the arresting hook, flaps all the way and landing gear and came in to land slow and early on the deck.

Note: I have Acceleration

I think I have missed something ?

I did the following:
1) Installed Victorious

2)To raise and lower the crash barriers - [VCockpit01] section of the Vertigo SBD aircraft's Panel.cfg: gaugeXX=FlyingStations!Hook.xml, 0,0,0,0 (in my case gaugexx was gauge03 as there was already a 01 and 02 gauge)

3) Installed AICarriers2

4) Under "Program files \ AICarriers \ conf.d" I made a text file. Called it flyingstations.cfg and put this info in it:
[formation.0]
title=HMS Victorious Early WW2 (Single)
unit.0=Victorious_1940, 0, 0

5) I put this in the Aircraft.cfg of the SBD

[TailHook]
tailhook_length = 2.000000
tailhook_position = -16.000, 0.000, -0.200//-15.000, 0.000, -1.000
cable_force_adjust = 0.68//1.000000

EDIT - this is not needed as is for Combat flight sim so ignore this - thanks again Rich!
[LSO]
LSOAdjustSpeed = 1.200000


and added the following lines


[launch_assistance]
launch_bar_pivot = 2.41,0.00,-1.3
launch_bar_lug = 7.083333,0.00,-5.50

EDIT - from the next post in this thread this should be in fsx.cfg [Realism] section - thanks Rich!

[Realism]
CatapultForceLimiter=0 //Enables the catapult systems to generate the required force for any type of aircraft

[Rich]

One thing there,

[Realism]
CatapultForceLimiter=0 //Enables the catapult systems to generate the required force for any type of aircraft

Should be in FSX.cfg [Realism] section not in aircraft.cfg

There is no need to touch down early and run into the wires the 4 wires are all individual wires not a area encompassing the visual wires, the hook catches or not one of those wires.

I have'nt got that model so can't check but at 2 ft the tailhook length to me looks short.

[mfitch]

The tailhook length and position entries in the aircraft.cfg are not needed. The hook is modeled into the SBD. Because of its low stall speed this one will trap nicely without any modifications. I use it to get back in practice after non-naval simming for this reason.

[P38man]

Hey mfitch.....what do you think I am doing wrong ?

Do you think I missed installing anything ?

I will ask Vertigo for the original hook settings - could that be it ?

[Rich]

mfitch
I am afraid the tail hook is not in the aircraft model, I do not have the model but a quick email to a friend who does with a request that he disable the hook section and see what happens, he did with the result he had no working hook so no hook in the model.

Try it yourself and see if you loose your hook

This is a leftover from Combat flight sim and is useless in FSX

[LSO]
LSOAdjustSpeed = 1.200000




The tailhook length and position entries in the aircraft.cfg are not needed. The hook is modeled into the SBD. Because of its low stall speed this one will trap nicely without any modifications. I use it to get back in practice after non-naval simming for this reason.

[Rich]

Sorry forgot to mention, even if it did have launch assist and tailhook modeled in the aircraft model those entries in the aircraft.cfg would over ride them

[Rich]

As far as I can see these are the original hook settings in red

[TailHook]
tailhook_length = 2.000000
tailhook_position = -16.000, 0.000, -0.200//-15.000, 0.000, -1.000
cable_force_adjust = 0.68//1.000000






Hey mfitch.....what do you think I am doing wrong ?

Do you think I missed installing anything ?

I will ask Vertigo for the original hook settings - could that be it ?

[bruce448]

As far as I can see these are the original hook settings in red

[TailHook]
tailhook_length = 2.000000
tailhook_position = -16.000, 0.000, -0.200//-15.000, 0.000, -1.000
cable_force_adjust = 0.68//1.000000


Correct Rich, I used Show Markers to move the tail hook position in relation to the actual model.

Bruce

[Rich]

Hi Bruce, I thought that might be the case, The model was never in RN service as far as I know so is not so desirable for me


Correct Rich, I used Show Markers to move the tail hook position in relation to the actual model.

Bruce

[P38man]

Thanks Rich.

I will give the original settings a go for the tail hook and delete this:
[LSO]
LSOAdjustSpeed = 1.200000

Hopefully all works then.

[bruce448]

Hi Bruce, I thought that might be the case, The model was never in RN service as far as I know so is not so desirable for me


Rich,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SBD-5_Royal_Navy_JS997.jpg

Bruce

[Rich]

Hi Bruce, interesting, only 9 held and not used operationally, wonder why the got them.


Rich,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SBD-5_Royal_Navy_JS997.jpg

Bruce

[bruce448]

Hi Bruce, interesting, only 9 held and not used operationally, wonder why the got them.


From what I can gather they were sent over for evaluation purposes, but we took to the Corsair instead.

Bruce

[Rich]

P38man, I would leave those tailhook settings as they are for the time being they should give better results than the original, I might get to look at them on my mates setup this weekend.

The LSO thing is a carry over from combat flight sim and can be dumped safely.

I think there is a bit more to your problem possibly with that AI carriers thing, all my carriers run on set routes here in the Philippines and used mostly for testing aircraft

Rich


Thanks Rich.

I will give the original settings a go for the tail hook and delete this:
[LSO]
LSOAdjustSpeed = 1.200000

Hopefully all works then.

[P38man]

I tried to land twice more on the Victorious and still no dice.

But I landed on Javier's Nimitz and it works perfectly!!!!:jump:

Drinks all round!!!:icon29::icon29::icon29::icon29::icon29::i con29:

Medal of honour for all the helpers :medals::medals::medals::medals::medals: thanks again!

Have done a number of landings and 2 catapult take offs and all works well. Even has lights for twlight landings.

Just the Victorious does not work for me I guess.

(for reference : line up with catapult then press SHIFT - I which connects to catapult which shows by a big bit of the deck coming up behind me to block jet flames then power up then press SHIFT SPACE and it takes off)

[Rich]

P38man, I suggest you hold off with Victorious for a day or 2 the 1944 version will be released hopefully over the weekend or next week and I should get to dabble with SBD Sunday, typhoons or tropical storms allowing, The new version of Victorious will have AI cfg setups for Victorious and Ark Royal.

[P38man]

Roger that, Rich!

Thanks

[Rich]

P38man, As far as I know the Victorious 1944 release stands as this weekend or sometime next week, as for the SBD I am sorry I will have to let it go.

[mfitch]

After reading all of this, it occurred to me to check my settings for the Just Flight Wildcat which I have never been able trap without a nose over. I could land it with brakes on longer carriers though. The cable_force_adjust enabled me to fix this though.

I suspect this was in a previous thread, but I had never understood nor tried it. You have provided much great assistance Rich and others. Thank you

[TARPSBird]

mfitch,
If you've fixed your F4F nose-over problem that's great but just FYI this [Tailhook] line set was posted by Rich back in June and it instantly resolved the nose-over issue for me:

[TailHook]
tailhook_length = 2.50
tailhook_position = -20.100, 0.000, -0.500
cable_force_adjust = 2.0

[mfitch]

Thanks tarpsbird. I have seen many of Rich's fixes (he is prolific and exceedingly helpful to everyone in this area especially), but I somehow didn't get around to attempting a fix of the Wildcat.

Generally I avoid changing the position of the tailhook, because it would throw me off to not trap when it visually seems it should. The cable_force_adjust however fixes the problem without changing the location.

[Rich]

The visual hook is just that, the important bit that you can not see is the position of the virtual hook which is the bit that does the stopping which very much depends on the hook attachment point.

The Wildcat attach point is well in front of the visual attach point on the model, when I moved it back the attach point is nearer where it should be and virtual hook catch point is in the hook.

all the little lights I placed so you can see various placings since the excellent Show markers will only show attach points if they are in the model but it will show hook end.

Moving the hook back cured the nose over and put the virtual hook in the correct place on the visual model.

[mfitch]

This version has been added to my F4Fs now and I am beginning to see how to control the amount of acceptable nose over. Your images also answer a question I have had.

Geometrically the pivot point and the length do not fully specify the hook location since that depends as well on how far down it can swing. Your images show a straight down orientation. I presume this has been confirmed to be FSX method of calculation.

[Rich]

mfitch, the center of that red cross is the virtual hook catch point you can forget the joining red line orientation they are a lead in the same orientation appears on whichever bit you chose to look at.

The tailhook settings in aircraft.cfg gives length and attach point and FSX places the catch point from those settings, the modeller sets how much travel on the visual and virtual hook, some stop at a angle some hang straight down.