I just tried out CFS3 to compare

[Gwynedd]

Wow. I really don't like CFS3 at all. You are forced to choose a pilot with set characteristics first. The intro looks like a cheesy Playstation game or something. I've tried flying a few of the planes, and the best I can tell, the P-51D is a fragile little thing that stalls in 30-40 degree banks and can't easily recover airspeed even in nose down attitude. The Bf-109G is faster in a turn and .50 caliber bullets have no effect on it in this game. The P-47 is slower in a turn than a real life PA-140 (Piper Cherokee) and creaks like it's falling apart as soon as it enters any turn. Forget dogfighting. Point the nose up at 250 knots and you stall. No Immelmans or loops can be performed in it.
If anyone wants to buy this game from me, I only paid $10 and it was a real waste of money to me. It's totally unrealistic, unless the Cessna I fly would have been a hot fighter compared to a Mustang.

[Sascha66]

OFF which is a fan WWI add-on, seems very popular, maybe you should get that to get something out of your bucks?

[Gwynedd]

OFF which is a fan WWI add-on, seems very popular, maybe you should get that to get something out of your bucks?

OFF? What is that? Are those the initials of another game product?

[OBIO]

I entered the world of MS Combat Flight Simulator with 3 and found it to be more of an archade game than a combat simulator. I still have it...it's just collecting dust on the shelf. I now run CFS2 exclusively and when I got it, I found out what a combat flight simulator was supposed to be. I have not flown CFS1, but from what I understand it is much like CFS2, only older and in the ETO.

OFF is short for Over Flander's Field....it is a expansion to CFS3 that creates a new install dedicated to World War 1. Even though it is based on the inner workings of CFS3, OFF far surpasses CFS3 in a hundred ways from what I have heard. There is also a Korean War expansion by the Dog Patch Crew that does the same thing...only it creates a new install dedicated to the Korean War.

I have not flown either of these expansions...so can not give you any personal input on them....only passing on the good things I have heard about them.

OBIO

[Dangerousdave26]

CFS3 out of the box is a load of :bs: However when you add ETO, PTO, MAW the game takes on new life. The only reason to have CFS3 is to have a plain install of it which you will load your addon from (also the CD to run it).

I have ETO, PTO and MAW installed all of them are amazing but I still fly FS9 almost exclusively.

I do not have OFF but am looking to get OFF BHH when it comes out. You should all look into it just to see the work they have done.

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?t=3083

http://www.overflandersfields.com/

This by far the most indepth work on CFS3. One thing you should know is CFS3 was designed to be very open ended. Developers can really tear it apart and redesign it if they want. OFF phase 3 is just that. The game have been ripped apart and redesigned to the point there has been talk of using a new game engine (one they may develop) for phase 4.

Because of the OFF crew Natural Point release a patch to Track IR that they developed that fixed a Track IR problem with Vista and CFS3. It was developed for OFF but rather then release it themselves they sent it to Natural Poin to release for all of CFS3 users. They are a good bunch of developers but you could say that about all of the addon creators here at the Outhouse. :ernae:

[Ivan]

Hi Gwynedd,

I also have CFS3 (and CFS2 and multiple copies of CFS Original). I keep it because every once in a while (long while) I try it out to remember what the game is about. I was told it IS possible to get into quick combat or freeflight but isn't intuitive as to how to get there.

I believe your complaints have more to do with flight models than the actual game engine itself. The stock flight models from M$ are notoriously poor and have little relationship to the actual aircraft. Even in CFS3, the visual models aren't very good IMHO.

Check out some of the CFS planes I have built. I think in general, the flight models are closer to real specs and hopefully don't have a whole lot of goofies. See if they behave the way you think WW2 heavy iron should.

- Ivan.

[Ivan]

Hi Gwynedd,

I forgot to mention, the Me 109G DOES turn better than just about every version of the P-51. Even the G-6/R6 with the cannon pods and a crappy engine turns better.

- Ivan.

[Dangerousdave26]

If you want better flight dynamics on the default aircraft (they suck)

Use Jerry Beckwith's replacementflight dynamics.

http://www.mudpond.org/cfs3_autoinstall.html

Be sure to read all of the instructions. Once you install these flight dynamics you will not be able to use those aircraft for Multiplayer online unless your opponent or team has the same dynamics installed.

Jerry also has original aircraft at his site

http://www.mudpond.org/aircraft3_index.html

All of the listed add ons to CFS3 come with a complete set of aircraft. I would leave your CFS3 install plain jane and load in ETO first. If you like it move to MAW or PTO. You will not be disappointed and you will find you $10 well spent.

[greycap.raf]

You are forced to choose a pilot with set characteristics first.
Or you can make your own and set the characteristics as you like.


...the P-51D is a fragile little thing that stalls in 30-40 degree banks and can't easily recover airspeed even in nose down attitude.
How does this differ from the stock CFS1 version? I can't see any notable differences.


The Bf-109G is faster in a turn and .50 caliber bullets have no effect on it in this game.
Fun fact of the week, the real Bf 109G indeed turned better than the Mustang when flown by a skilled pilot. It was a far more capable fighter than the history shows, mainly because the real things were flown by novices against Allied aircraft flown by aces. About the damage caused by .50 bullets, it was a relatively sturdy all metal aircraft with the only weak point being the engine cooling system.


The P-47 is slower in a turn than a real life PA-140 (Piper Cherokee) and creaks like it's falling apart as soon as it enters any turn. Forget dogfighting. Point the nose up at 250 knots and you stall. No Immelmans or loops can be performed in it.
Oddly enough I've looped it successfully countless times beginning from a speed of about 300 mph which just about equals that 250 knots. The CFS3 one also doesn't porpoise uncontrollably when you look at the stick the wrong way like the CFS1 model does.

Once again it seems that there has been a comparison of a tweaked to death CFS1 install and a bone stock CFS3 install, finished by a good touch of CFS3 hatred from the beginning. Talk about a fair game. CFS1 out of the box isn't any better, certainly the other way round, but none of us remembers it as such because it's seen so much modding over the years.

I'll certainly collect a lot of flak for this post but I don't like comparing apples to oranges and then calling one of them total crap without giving it any chance.

[Gwynedd]

Thanks to everyone for the replies. I will try the upgrades you suggested before I post this game on EBay.

[Gwynedd]

Once again it seems that there has been a comparison of a tweaked to death CFS1 install and a bone stock CFS3 install, finished by a good touch of CFS3 hatred from the beginning.

Everything you said except the above bears good consideration and I appreciate those other comments. My CFS1 is not "tweaked", and I had been delighted to find the newer game at last so I could see what improvements had been made since CFS1.
I would like to try CFS2 out as well. I have not been able to find it anywhere, including EBay, so far.

[Gwynedd]

I definitely will give your models a try. I think you understand a lot of the historical performance as well as paint scheme nuances better than most and certainly better than M$ (nice!).


Hi Gwynedd,

I also have CFS3 (and CFS2 and multiple copies of CFS Original). I keep it because every once in a while (long while) I try it out to remember what the game is about. I was told it IS possible to get into quick combat or freeflight but isn't intuitive as to how to get there.

I believe your complaints have more to do with flight models than the actual game engine itself. The stock flight models from M$ are notoriously poor and have little relationship to the actual aircraft. Even in CFS3, the visual models aren't very good IMHO.

Check out some of the CFS planes I have built. I think in general, the flight models are closer to real specs and hopefully don't have a whole lot of goofies. See if they behave the way you think WW2 heavy iron should.

- Ivan.

[Dangerousdave26]

Just remember if you load anything in you have to remove it before installing the expansions.

If you plan on modding CFS3 for a custom game install a second instance of CFS3 and leave it Vanilla so you can install the expansions.

Martin Wright http://fly.to/mwgfx/ created a tool to make multiple installations of CFS3 called MultiCFS3. Don't let the beta in the name scare you ETO, PTO, MAW, OFF and Koriean Skies all use it to create their install of CFS Expansion.

[Ivan]

Hi Gwynedd,

Let me know what you think about the stuff I built. Constructive criticism is appreciated. Everything I have ever built is a work in progress and can be improved upon. Maybe I even made the correction but just never updated the distribution. Regarding painting, my son does about as well as I do when he uses crayons.
Do you happen to have a G-meter? With some aircraft, a G-meter (or seat of the pants if the plane is real) is essential to fly to best performance. I am guessing that with the Thunderbolt, you are pulling too much G in the loop and bleeding off too much speed to get over the top.

Hello Greycap.RAF
No doubt the simulator in CFS3 is better, but I found that after putting together a machine purposefully to run the game (1.33GHz Athlon, 512 MB DDR memory with a 333 MHz Radeon graphics), it still did not behave well. The game engine is undoubtedly better, but the presentation is not quite as attractive.
My CFS1 installation isn't tweaked much (water landable) but just about all the planes I fly are very far from stock.

- Ivan.

[safn1949]

Everything you said except the above bears good consideration and I appreciate those other comments. My CFS1 is not "tweaked", and I had been delighted to find the newer game at last so I could see what improvements had been made since CFS1.
I would like to try CFS2 out as well. I have not been able to find it anywhere, including EBay, so far.

Dude go here. http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00004WFVZ/ref=dp_olp_0?ie=UTF8&condition=all for cfs 2

I don't like CFS 3,never have but that's just my opinion,I love CFS 2