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OBIO
July 4th, 2011, 16:11
I just installed a number of Ito's aircraft (with VCs). And before I go spending hours and hours trying to set them up with passable FDE sets, reworked gauges on the 2D and VC panels, effects, lights and such, I would like to see if any of these planes have already been addressed by other members of the community.

Vickers Armstrong Type 432
Fi-167
A5M4
He-219-A7
J7W1 Sinden
Ju-388-L1
Ju-388-JV4
Macchi C-200
Re-2001
Mig-21bis
Yak 23 Flora

If these planes have already been tweaked/improved, please let me know by who so I could grab the files and so that I do not repeat work done by someone else (and most likely upload FDE tweaks that are not as good as done by someone else).

I am working on the BV-138 Seedraken and have it nearly done (and working on a paint template to give this neat bird some new clothes to wear). Just gave the VA Type 432 a hasty (but workable) FDE set..borrowed from the freeware Alphasim CFS2 Pe-2 and tweaked to fit the Type 432 and get it flying with piston engines instead of turbro props....doesn't fly half bad given I have spent all of 5 minutes on it so far.

OBIO

Matt Wynn
July 4th, 2011, 17:32
if ya ever need new clothes for the Aircraft OBIO just let me know, all too willing to help the Sim-Community :salute:

OBIO
July 4th, 2011, 18:49
Feel free to dig in Smoothie....can never have too many painters working on planes. First order of business is getting these birds to fly better and with proper engines (so many of Ito's prop planes are set up as turboprops).

Just remembered that Alpha also released the Pe-2 for FS2002 and that the FDE set from it may be a better starting point than the CFS2 Pe-2. Will see what I can come up with for the VA Type 432 from that angle.

OBIO

norab
July 4th, 2011, 18:49
see these two threads for the 167 Tim

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?37636-NEW!-Freeware-Fieseler-Fi-167-By-Kazunori-Ito&highlight=Fiesler

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?37778-FDE-Updates-for-Fiesler-Fi-167&highlight=Fiesler

OBIO
July 4th, 2011, 19:09
Thanks for the links Norab. That keeps me some time on the 167...and my results would not have been as good.

OBIO

OBIO
July 4th, 2011, 22:00
If anyone has any technical info on any of the birds in the list above, such as empty weight, max take off weight, fuel capacities, max speeds, that sort of stuff....please post it in this thread or send it to me via PM. I can find general specs (speed, HP, weights) but they differ from site to site. I can NOT find any info on fuel capacities....and right now, the Macchi C.200 has 600 gallons of fuel, which is like way too much.

OBIO

AndyG43
July 4th, 2011, 22:35
I know I've got better FDE's for the Ju 388L, just can't remember where I got them at the moment, sorry!! I can send you what I have if that helps?

Edit - Michael Vader was the author.

Shessi
July 5th, 2011, 02:44
Obio,
If you search in Flightsim.com, where Ito-san used to initially put up his ac, you will find a lot of tweaked files for his models, not all went on to Simviation as his models did.

Might save some time!

Cheers

Shessi

OBIO
July 5th, 2011, 08:51
Shessi

The planes on the list have no known FDE updates. I looked on Flightsim and Simv before starting on them.

OBIO

aeronca1
July 5th, 2011, 10:22
Thanks for this thread! It has caused me to go and search for some old favourites, and has resulted in finding a few I missed along the way. It's simply amazing how many aircraft Mr. Ito has contributed to the FlightSim community over the years! All the accolades I can muster are on the way virtually!!!!

SPman
July 5th, 2011, 20:19
I know I've got better FDE's for the Ju 388L, just can't remember where I got them at the moment, sorry!! I can send you what I have if that helps?

Edit - Michael Vader was the author.

http://www.flightsim.com/kdl.php?fid=127041

Hurricane91
July 6th, 2011, 06:57
Many thanks to OBIO for this thread, SPman for the links, Michael Vader for the improved textures and FD, and Ito-san for the Ju-388.

42412

OBIO
July 6th, 2011, 19:42
Hey..for the JU-388, go to the Warbirds Archive and grab Lawdog's FW190 (not the D, just the regular 190) sound pack. Delete the 4 internal and 4 external prop sounds.....they start with 190P for the internal and X190P for the external prop sounds. I will upload a twin engine sound config file in a day or two.

OBIO

OBIO
July 6th, 2011, 21:32
Here's a tweak to apply to all of Ito's planes with VCs. Go into the panel.cfg file, scroll down to the VC section or sections. Look for this line:

pixel_size=512,512s

Change it to

pixel_size=1024,1024

This will make the VC gauges much much sharper and clearer.

For those using Michael Vader's tweaked version of Ito's Ju-388L, the engines die when you first start them with the throttle pulled all the way back. Here's the fix:

Open the aircraft.cfg file. Scroll down to the [GeneralEngineData] section. Find the line:

min_throttle_limit=0.000000

Change it to

min_throttle_limit=0.050000

That will keep the engines running on start up with the throttle pulled back to zip.

OBIO

OBIO
July 6th, 2011, 21:43
Here's a list of Ito's planes that I have found to have working VCs.

Vickers Armstrong Type 432
Fiesler Fi-167
Reggiane RE-2001
Heinkle He219-A7
J7W1 Shinden
Ju-388L
Ju-388J
Macchi Mc.200
Mig-21bis
Yak-23 Flora
Blohm and Voss BV138
Me-410
Su-24M
FJ-1
P-82B
F-82G
A5M4 Claude
Il-2 Sturmovik
He-177 Greif
Fairey Barracuda Mk.V

That's all of 'em I have. If you know of any more Ito planes with working VCs (meaning...working gauges and not just the painted on gauges), please post them here.

OBIO

AndyG43
July 7th, 2011, 00:44
Is there any chance we can get this thread made sticky please?

It's proving useful for a lot of people, and I think it could generate an awful lot more projects on SOH.

AndyG43
July 7th, 2011, 02:48
Here's a list of Ito's planes that I have found to have working VCs.

Vickers Armstrong Type 432
Fiesler Fi-167
Reggiane RE-2001
Heinkle He219-A7
J7W1 Shinden
Ju-388L
Ju-388J
Macchi Mc.200
Mig-21bis
Yak-23 Flora
Blohm and Voss BV138
Me-410
Su-24M
FJ-1
P-82B
F-82G
A5M4 Claude
Il-2 Sturmovik
He-177 Greif
Fairey Barracuda Mk.V

That's all of 'em I have. If you know of any more Ito planes with working VCs (meaning...working gauges and not just the painted on gauges), please post them here.

OBIO

Regarding the Shinden, have you tried using Mr Piglet's FSX FDE's (providing he has no objections of course) as a donor?

And the Greif, we have really got to look at that as a project; plenty of repaint potential, an interesting soundset for Nigel to look at & the possibility of a decent cockpit makeover!! :jump::jump:

OBIO
July 7th, 2011, 08:13
Concerning the He-177 Greif.....there is a flight dynamics update for it on Flightsim.com. He177fm.zip is the name. It's by James Banks. This update gets the Greif starting like a real piston engined plane and it flies nicely.

As far as sounds go, I am using the DB606 sound pack by Lawdog (it's in the Warbirds Archive under his use name Lawdog3260 so something close to that). The early 177s used the 606, which were 2 DB601 or DB603 inverted V-12s mounted real close together and coupled through a common gear reduction system. Later models of the 177 used the DB610, which appeared to be a purpose built inverted V-24!

Ito's F-82/P-82 have a revised FDE set available....here in the SOH library by Fliger747.

The IL-2 has a FDE tweak available on Flightsim.com. Sturmovik_fix.zip by Ricardo Jones.

THe A5M4 Claude is already set up as a piston engine plane....the FDE needs tweaked though.

I have the BV138 set up with a FDE set from Payakan's FS2002 BV138.....it flies like a big lumbering beast, not an easy plane to fly but it behaves well (no shaking, no pitchiness to the controls, airspeed is pretty close to specs).

THe Fi-167 has an FDE update, links to it are posted by norab earlier in this thread.

OBIO

SteveB
July 7th, 2011, 11:13
Ref the He 177 model, I have a set of layered masters in paint shop pro format if anyone wants them.


Steve

AndyG43
July 7th, 2011, 12:27
Ref the He 177 model, I have a set of layered masters in paint shop pro format if anyone wants them.


Steve

Yes please. :jump::jump::jump:

SteveB
July 7th, 2011, 12:29
Yes please. :jump::jump::jump:


PM me your email addy and i'll send them over via yousendit. I also have layered masters for the Me410.


Steve

AndyG43
July 7th, 2011, 14:41
Concerning the He-177 Greif.....there is a flight dynamics update for it on Flightsim.com. He177fm.zip is the name. It's by James Banks. This update gets the Greif starting like a real piston engined plane and it flies nicely.

As far as sounds go, I am using the DB606 sound pack by Lawdog (it's in the Warbirds Archive under his use name Lawdog3260 so something close to that). The early 177s used the 606, which were 2 DB601 or DB603 inverted V-12s mounted real close together and coupled through a common gear reduction system. Later models of the 177 used the DB610, which appeared to be a purpose built inverted V-24!

Ito's F-82/P-82 have a revised FDE set available....here in the SOH library by Fliger747.

The IL-2 has a FDE tweak available on Flightsim.com. Sturmovik_fix.zip by Ricardo Jones.

THe A5M4 Claude is already set up as a piston engine plane....the FDE needs tweaked though.

I have the BV138 set up with a FDE set from Payakan's FS2002 BV138.....it flies like a big lumbering beast, not an easy plane to fly but it behaves well (no shaking, no pitchiness to the controls, airspeed is pretty close to specs).

THe Fi-167 has an FDE update, links to it are posted by norab earlier in this thread.

OBIO

To add to that list, on Flightsim again, barracudamk_vaccurateair.zip - search on Barracuda and there are some good repaints as well.

Fleet Canuck
July 7th, 2011, 16:28
This one has an excellent exterior, but the flight dynamics are way off, and the VC is really rough. But, having read your advice about resizing the VCgauges, I might try this once again and substitute another air file.

Thanks for the tip, and for the one on adjusting the throttle, too!FS2002 - FS2002 Aircraft FS2002/FS2004 ERCO 415 Ercoupe
[ Download (http://www.flightsim.com/kdl.php?fid=117644) | View (http://www.flightsim.com/zview.php?cm=list&fid=117644) ]
Name: erco_415.zip (http://www.flightsim.com/kdl.php?fid=117644) Size: 5,464,137 Date: 09-05-2008 Downloads: 1,835
http://www.flightsim.com/images/fscfiles/n/erco_415.gif http://www.flightsim.com/images/fsc/wbicons/fcq1.gif http://www.flightsim.com/images/fsc/wbicons/fbq1.gif FS2002/FS2004 ERCO 415 Ercoupe. This plane was designed by several engineers at the National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics (NACA) in response to a Bureau of Air Commerce design competition during the mid 1930s for an easy-to-fly, safe airplane. The Engineering and Reseach Company (ERCO) was founded to develop the design. The 415 utilized a two-control system with a control wheel linking the rudder, ailerons and nose wheel. The wheel also controlled the elevator. This arrangement eliminated the need for rudder pedals. Four kind of models and five kind of paint examples are included. By Kazunori Ito (http://www.flightsim.com/main/review/ito/ito2.htm).

OBIO
July 9th, 2011, 08:21
I spent some time on Flightsim.com last night investigating even more of Mr. Ito's packages. And what I found were a BUNCH more with VCs. So, I will list them here:

Me-323 E-2 Gigant
HE-111Z
Me-321 Gigant
Avro 730
Avtek 400
Bell X-22A
Bell P-59A
F-86D Sabredog
RF4-D Motorglider
F-94C Starfire
DH-108 Swallow
DH-86 Express
F3D-2 Skyknight
X-3 Stilleto
Martin SP-5B Marlin
F-15E Strike Eagle
Westland Whirlwind (with a panel mod by Lionheart...wwpanel.zip)
Blackburn B-25 Roc Mk.1
MS760 Paris

The Sabredog I've had installed for a while....and it's NICE. Needs better skins and it's a shame that it isn't reflective (I made mine reflective and it is KILLER!).

I checked out the F-15E. Nice. Not as nice as the Iris F-15s, nor the Coral F-15. But it's free, comes in a lot of configurations and give very nice frame rates.

THe SP-5B Marlin...big seaplane. Looks nice, VC is nice enough, needs a total FDE replacement (as do most of Ito's planes).

That brings the list of Ito planes with working VC to 39. Far more than I thought.

OBIO

AndyG43
July 9th, 2011, 13:02
Ito's F-82/P-82 have a revised FDE set available....here in the SOH library by Fliger747.

Actually there are two, one for the F82G and a RTW set for the F82B. And there is a Twin Mustang soundset done by ..... Obio!! :applause:

napamule
July 10th, 2011, 22:21
As promised, here is the video of the Fi-167 doing it's 'thing' (landing almost vertically) in FS2004. Just for kicks. Short (<3 min) video. The flight dynamics were NOT easy to do, but I prevailed (as I always do-even if it takes me a week-hehe). Enjoy.
Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wjeMM2_t5g .
Chuck B
Napamule

AndyG43
July 11th, 2011, 06:32
Post in another thread that I thought might be useful here.


you can find Ito san's Mig 17 but with an improved FDE here

http://aviationtop1000sites.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownload&cid=99&min=70&orderby=dateD&show=10

Hungarian markings but I'm sure no problem to swap them out


Looking at Obio's list above, I swapped out the dynamics in Itosan's Sabre Dog for a set by Bob Chicilo for David Wooster's Sabre Dog, worked rather well. Similarly, I used one of Mr Chicilo's updates for the XB-70 in the Avro 730 as a 'quick & dirty' solution - the intention is still to tweak it, to something nearer the proposed performance, and the cockpit needs a lot of work to take it back to the correct period.

There is a (beta) DH-86 over at The Old Hangar (can't remember the author at the moment) which is an obvious donor for that of Itosan's.

Look over at Flightsim for filep5mmarlin14pack.zip (http://www.sim-outhouse.com/kdl.php?fid=138137) , a set of repaints and revised dynamics for the Marlin.

Again, if any Mods are looking in, any chance we can get this thread stickied, it's proving very entertaining.

OBIO
July 11th, 2011, 09:53
I will stickie the thread...if the FS9 Mods decide that it is not stickie worthie, then we will abide by their decision...this is their Forum to supervise afterall.

I started this thread concerning those planes done by Ito that have working Virtual Cockpits since I fly from the VC only and do not use planes without VCs. But I know that there are those who do fly form the 2D panel. So....if you know of any tweaks, improvements, etc., to any of Ito's vast library of planes and space craft....feel free to share the info. Give us the name of Ito's plane, the name and location of the tweak package or packages, and it will become part of this growing thread.

Let's work to make all of Ito's planes fly as good as they look. The man produced to many visually stunning aircraft for flight sim, I feel we owe him this thread in appreciation of his generosity and productivity.

OBIO

ian elliot
July 11th, 2011, 11:37
If you like Itos Mig17, i'd really recommend our very own Morton, giving her some new clothes and a very good multi view 2d panel, if you cant have a vc, this is the next best thing, it turn'd up on the CFS2 forums but works fine out of the box on FS9 model.
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?51749-Migs-Migs...&highlight=morton

cheers ian

Desert Rat
July 11th, 2011, 12:11
This is an ideal thread for the Outhouse Wiki, along with maybe one for 3D light configs. And also onef or Obio, the material mdlmat and shine tutorial ;).

Great work guys, one day when I can get back to FS and get it running nice I'll be digging up this thread, lol.

Ta much,
Jamie

OBIO
July 11th, 2011, 12:45
JD

You're right about the MDLmat tute. I uploaded a visual tutorial to the library, and norab took it an made it into a much more usable PDF format tutorial. It's in the library under FS2004 OTHER.

I also need to write up an easy to follow tutorial on using MDLC 170 and a hex editor to add reflective texturing to planes. I know you sent me the tute on how to do it, it was easy to follow....but I think I could write up one that is even easier to follow. I know that once I did a reflective mod or two, it's like falling off a log. I can take a plane from non-reflective to fully reflective in about 3 minutes.

OBIO

OBIO
July 11th, 2011, 20:02
Tada! A new permanent home for this thread.....so let's fill it up with tweaks and updates for Ito's wonderful collection of aircraft!

OBIO

AndyG43
July 12th, 2011, 02:21
Jolly good! :salute:

OK, then a quick update on the C-27 Spartan project. Matt (Smoothie) has sent me a very nice EPA (Hellenic AF) C-27 scheme, and is (I believe) working on one or two others (a USCG paint was mentioned and, if Tim has sent him the pictures, an ANG scheme).

Chuck Backus (napamule) saved me a lot of grey hairs by sending me a very nice FDE update - the problem that was causing me issues was related to the CoG and datum points, way beyond my level of ability at the moment and one that caused Chuck some problems despite the fact that he is very experienced in this field. He supplied both FS9 and FSX versions btw

Somebody (mentioning nobody called Nigel) ducked when I asked the question about soundsets, so I'm still recommending aliasing this to the BSMP Saab 2000; it's a superb aircraft anyway, I can highly recommend it.

The panel - well, I have a working panel, using a mix of gauges from the PAD C-130J and C-295 (thanks again Bob), but I'm still not happy with the main bitmap so will be working on that a little more this week; then a little tweaking will be needed, but I can see an end in sight. I'll also need to do some checking and testing in FSX, but it hasn't been my main focus.

Hopefully I can get the whole thing posted up this weekend, including Matt's EPA scheme; presumably his other schemes will follow.

Thanks to all who have helped with this. Itosan gave us a good foundation to build upon, so it is nice to be able to pay tribute to the man with a few embellishments.

Matt Wynn
July 12th, 2011, 08:06
Engines are the same as fitted to the C-130Js if i recall so commenting out 2 engines should do the trick nicely....

and yes paints are underway, although on hold due to me disappearing for 4 days starting friday (with another SoH member and RIAT Volunteer staff member SteveB) for the Royal International Air Tattoo, will be taking my new camera and related kit (Canon EOS 500D with Flashgun, 18-55mm and 75-300mm lenses, and plenty of memory cards for it) :icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol:

AndyG43
July 12th, 2011, 09:11
Engines are the same as fitted to the C-130Js if i recall so commenting out 2 engines should do the trick nicely....

Yes, that I did think about that; maybe we can offer the choice.


.....(with another SoH member and RIAT Volunteer staff member SteveB) for the Royal International Air Tattoo, will be taking my new camera and related kit (Canon EOS 500D with Flashgun, 18-55mm and 75-300mm lenses, and plenty of memory cards for it) :icon_lol::icon_lol::icon_lol:

Lucky git, I haven't been to the RIAT since the year they were up at Cottesmore. Enjoy!

OBIO
July 12th, 2011, 18:05
Smoothie

Head over to the Newshawks forum....I did a thread in which I shared a link to the pics I took at Airport Day. Pics of the C-27J marking are included.....really did the insignia with the skull with a dagger rammed through it.

OBIO

napamule
July 12th, 2011, 18:37
Andy,
Key in 'Reinhard Herrmann' at FSCom to get a turbo-prop sound (dated 2000) which I find good enough for the Spartan. Why stuggle. I did not look so don't have the zip file name, but his name only pops up 20 files, about 10 are sound, so you can't miss finding them. I am glad to hear (on the grapevine?) that the FDEs worked.

The last 10 days I did the FDE's for the BV 170, then the Fi-167, and just got done today with the Junkers EF-112 (nailed it!). Having too much fun flying the EF-112 and making videos to post my updates to Media Fire. Should do that tonight I guess. I said get thru email, but I recant on that stipulation. The first jerk that will take my FDEs will be Lucarinny, I bet. No, I KNOW. And he will say he got FDEs from the 'developer' (Ito). Ha.

Obio. How about trying out my FDEs and let me know if they are better. (Of course you have to be a 'half decent' pilot (hehe). We all know how messed up Ito's FDEs were 'out of the box'. On the subject of Ito using turbo prop FDEs on all these planes-well, not only that- but I noticed he used the same parameters (cnt pts, etc) on the different models! Woaa Nelly-that won't work (as we find out). But I'm a 'Pro' and love to wrestle with the dynamics. I had not flown 'some' of these since 2005 or so, and NEVER flew the EF-112 (for some strange reason) until this week. But I did find some edits (blast from the past) on some. Makes me laugh as I have since learned a few 'tricks' I did not know back then. But it's never a 'slow day' for tweaking. In fact I can't keep up! Default airplanes? Don't get me started on that (hehe) as I don't have the time for 'them' (ha). Will post tonight.
Chuck B
Napamule

mikezola
July 14th, 2011, 00:44
Hello, everyone-
I just finished putting together FDE files for his He-219A-7 (yes, contact points too), starting with the FDEs from Ted Kaniuka for the 219 from CFS3... anybody want to take 'em for a ride?
-Mike Z.

OBIO
July 14th, 2011, 07:01
I have a revised FDE set for the BV138 pretty much dialed in and am working on the Martin SP-5B Marlin. The BV138 has passed my testing and has been tested by another FS9 member who gave it the green light for human consumption...will get the panel tweaking done and get the package uploaded in a day or two. Then I will concentrate on the Marlin.....water behavior is dialed in I think, just working on the speed and such now (ya know....the hard parts of an FDE set). Borrowed some stuff from the Alphasim Marlin config file and got the top speed down from 236 knots to around 210 knots. Need to test cruise speed and see how close it is to the listed 130 knots.

OBIO

AndyG43
July 14th, 2011, 13:33
Hello, everyone-
I just finished putting together FDE files for his He-219A-7 (yes, contact points too), starting with the FDEs from Ted Kaniuka for the 219 from CFS3... anybody want to take 'em for a ride?
-Mike Z.

Certainly be interested in giving them a spin on the weekend, if the offer is still there Mike. :applause:

mikezola
July 14th, 2011, 19:31
No problem, Andy- PM me with your e-mail address and I'll shoot you a copy to try out.

-Mike Z.

napamule
July 14th, 2011, 21:30
Obio,
The 'cheap' way of slowing it down (quote: 'Need to test cruise speed') is to increase the fuselage drag (in air file). Double, or 4x, it and see how 'effective' it can be. Not 'spec' but a mod you might want to 'try'. Cheap trick. But it works best on lighter aircraft (power wise). For larger engines, the 'other' trick is to increase wing area to slow it down. But that will affect handling, so be prudent with how much you increase. Have not done this much, so don't have figures or % amounts. I guess, 10% with light ac and 40% for heavies would be 'ok'? Just 'food for thought', really, and not anything 'spec'.

Mike,
I am curious to 'see' what other 'tweakers' use for values and the results it has on handling, etc. But I NEVER criticize, or offer 'advice'. I'm just a 'mechanic' not an 'engineer' (ha). If I PM you can I get them too? You can have any of my FDEs in return. How's that? I do FDEs 24/7 as I'm retired and have (too much) time on my hands. BUT, when I am doing FDEs there is not ENOUGH time. One minute it's 9 pm and the next minute it's 4 am (hehe). Cheers.
Chuck B
Napamule
Edit: I just downloaded the He-219 (I am afraid to 'look' as it's 10 pm already-will leave install for tamale). Cheesh.

mikezola
July 15th, 2011, 12:51
Hi-
Napamule, I would be glad to send you a copy of the FDE for the 219, and would be happy to check out your work on the others. As I told OBIO, I really didn't do too much to the files- what took the longest was figuring out how to overcome some adverse side-effects of shifting the reference datum. I did this by deleting some of the entries in the .air file that overrode the tweaks in the aircraft.cfg. Those changes, and some adjustment to the nose gear compression values, were about all I needed to do.
I'm more of a mechanic than an engineer myself- just rolling up the sleeves, opening up the (virtual) toolbox, and doing what I gotta do to make it work right (heh heh)...

-Mike

napamule
July 17th, 2011, 01:45
Mike,
Sorry I din't get back to you. Had a lot of chores, and other 'real life' obligations and just installed the He-219 an hour ago. Time flys. But I also take a day off once in a while. In fact I have to research specs, etc so phoey 'working'-I'm going to bed.

Since I found out I can post zip files on the forum posts (just like a pic, but more like an attachment) that readers can click on and do download, I plan to post the cfg and air files for all the models I got. Yesterday I started with doing 'final' check ride for what I plan to post and found problems so had to hold off posting zips. How some stuff gets by I don't know, but it does. Then today am taking a day off. Will be back at it tomorrow. And since I am already TOO busy, will pass (for now) on your files. Sounds interesting what you did (delete air sections). The first one I delete is the 'Land Me=1' entry in dynamics section. I laugh everytime I see that. So the air does have a lot of 'junky' sections/entries, that's for sure. Tank locations? No engine section? Inertia section? 'Yet Another Name=" ? Leftovers from FS2K/2K2. And CFS too. Hey MS! We need 'updated' air file program and 'complete' air sections! (Ha).
Chuck B
Napamule

mikezola
July 17th, 2011, 21:24
No problem, Chuck-
Real world obligations pretty much wiped out all of my weekend as well...
A couple of days ago, though, I did hear from Ted Kaniuka (NachtPiloten), who gave me his blessing regarding uploading the files- so I'll be uploading them here at SOH shortly. So far OBIO and Andy seem to like them, although Andy had a hard time making it stall, otherwise he says it flies pretty much like the A2A version.
Andy- how do the MOI values compare between what I have vs. the A2A Uhu? There was a substantial difference between what I got with Tom Clayton's MOI Calculator, and the values in the original CFS3 files...

-Mike Z.

mikezola
July 17th, 2011, 22:18
I've just uploaded them to the 'Other' category of FS2004 add-ons... Come and get it!
-Mike Z.

AndyG43
July 19th, 2011, 06:40
.....although Andy had a hard time making it stall, otherwise he says it flies pretty much like the A2A version..

And, believe me, I tried. Gear down, full flaps, engines off and she stayed controllable all the way down from about 10000 feet; the A2A version, in the same configuration, lost it at just under 100 KIAS.



Andy- how do the MOI values compare between what I have vs. the A2A Uhu? There was a substantial difference between what I got with Tom Clayton's MOI Calculator, and the values in the original CFS3 files...

-Mike Z.

I'll check later Mike, and let you know.

BTW folks, don't forget to check out Lawdog's DB603 soundset in the archive. The panel is on my to do list, but the C-27J has priority (real world has distracted me) and the Greif is after that.

AndyG43
August 4th, 2011, 12:18
OK, here's a good one for you. I find myself with a little time on my hands (mainly because I have just been made redundant) so I'm picking up on a few projects, mainly Ito-related. So I should finally get the C-27J panel done, among other things.

One aircraft I would like to look at is the SR.A1, but all my attempts to date have been fruitless, because the balance is totally out. So I guess the datum points need adjusting, but I have absolutely no idea where to start. Any suggestions gratefully accepted.:salute:

napamule
August 4th, 2011, 19:10
Andy,
I just downloaded Ito's SARO and will work on cnt pts (and anything else you like) tonight. It won't be ready until 11 pm (2300 PST/0500 GMT) or so. Will zip up cfg (and air if necessary) and post it here LATE tonight (Thur). Might even be as late as 1 am. I don't have anything pending (yeah, right!) except the rest of Ito's models on Obio's list-ha. I'll BE BAAAACK.
Chuck B
Napamule

mikezola
August 4th, 2011, 22:16
Figuring out how to make the datum adjustment work was the biggest key for me to making other FDE file sets work for Ito-San's aircraft. Here's the thing:
Most developers create their models so that the co-ordinate origin (0,0,0) is approximately at 75% MAC with respect to the length of the a/c, centerline of the fuselage for side-to-side, and somewhere between what's been called the 'waterline' and the thrust centerline for the vertical axis. What Ito seems to do is set his zero point for the lengthwise axis to the midpoint of his fuselage. What I do is add a line to the 'lights' section of the a/c.cfg file and set its co-ordinates to 0,-3,0 to show me where his c/l is located. I can then figure out how far I've got to offset the reference datum. Once I enter the difference into the 'reference datum position' line, that usually puts the rest of my points pretty close, assuming that I am using a cfg file from the same plane by some other author.
In the case of his A5M4 Claude, for example, adapting the air and cfg files from the CFS2 1% version of the plane was pretty painless. Both planes used c/l of the fuselage for the side-to-side axis, and both used the thrust c/l for their respective zero points. Only the lengthwise axis origin was different. I moved it by entering a value of '6.5,0,0' to my 'reference_datum_position'. Then, because I pasted in the 'lights' section from Ito's cfg file, I simply had to shift the position of the lights back to compensate for the 6.5 feet I moved the datum. That was really about all I needed to do for this plane. The next step, if need be for the particular aircraft, would be to nudge some of the contact points and light points around to adjust for small differences in the models' dimensions. This was the case when I adapted Piglet's air and cfg files for the MS 760 to Ito's model.
The biggest trouble I had adapting files this way was doing the He 219. There was an entry in the air file the over-rode the datum shift- number #1547 (I think), which defined a center of lift. The point did not move with the datum shift, which made the center of lift too far back on the fuselage for her to fly. I deleted the entry from the air file and the problem was gone.
-Mike Z.

napamule
August 5th, 2011, 03:00
Andy,
(And, anyone else that's interested). I came up with a nice set of FDE's. It makes it a more powerful, but easy to handle, jet. Took me longer than I thought. Had to fly it. Couldn't quit. I changed a lot of things, so just plug the cfg and air file and go see. You must use together. Otherwise all bets are off. (It still amazes me how you guys fly with half of the cfg all messed up (especially in CFS)). No bueno.

There is a short readme in the zip for reference. You can edit the cfg and/or air file as you wish. You need to add you paints? Just make a copy first, just in case. Also, any feedback is welcome. Oh, I forgot to reset the lights (after the ref datum change) but it's too late already. Tomorrow I will fix them (sorry). Will talk later.

These FDEs are no for upload to any site that charges to download (or to look at) files. Neither should these files be included in any payware (all media). They are freeware, and they must remain freeware. Respect my rights. Thank You.
Chuck B
Napamule

Rich
August 5th, 2011, 03:10
Actually did my own when it was released originally so will stick with that but will check yours too

Out of interest where do you get this (especially in CFS) Ito banned his work in CFS and I do'nt remember a CFS release

OBIO
August 5th, 2011, 06:00
napamule

There are huge differences between the way FS9 and CFS2 (the only combat flight sim that I have any degree of experience with) uses config and air files. FS9 relies primarily on info in the config file for the flight dynamics. CFS2, on the other hand, relies primarily on the air file for flight dynamics. Much of the info contained in an FS9 config file is unused in a CFS2 config file, and in most cases that info is not even a part of a native CFS2 config file. This is the reason that a CFS2 config file seems to be missing half the bits and pieces.

Rich,

There is no CFS2 versions of Ito's planes.....you are correct in that he never released any of his aircraft for CFS2 and in that he prohibits the conversion of his aircraft for use in any combat sim. I think that napamule was simply making a comment about the config files in CFS, not about Ito's planes in CFS particularly.

OBIO

napamule
August 6th, 2011, 07:32
I actually did the cnt pts (and whatever else I saw needed change) for Andy. But since I figure the original files were 'ok' to fly, I 'customized' it. You can always go back to your original cfg & air file. Right? Right.

I am well aware of Ito's wish that his models not be used in CFS as he don't like the thought of people 'killing' each other, as is in a war, even if it's pretend. I don't 'do' CFS and was under impression that this was the FS2004 tweak forum thread (hehe). I never said my FDEs are suitable for CFS use, either. My comment about flying with half the cfg missing 'parts' applies to FS9 too. Like older (2004-2007) files. A purist would not want to even hear that his warbird has an autopilot. But, I pretend that these 'warbirds' are of the restored (ie: civilian) 'type', and not killing machines. And, I don't do shoot-em-ups (ie: video games). I am just a mechanic. And test pilot. And chief bottle washer. I just have a ball doing dynamics edits. 1st thing I do is check out the cnt pts. Then I get 'sucked in' and wind up doing the whole thing. Last night I got the Nardi Riviera, by Mario Noriega, in FSX, and got it 'squared away'. Took all night but I was cooking, so time just flew by like nothing. So I hope someone does enjoy the FDEs and that they don't cause any problems with relations. I am GOOD at dynamics. But that, and $4.50, will get me a cup of coffee at Starbucks. Ha. It's just a hobby I enjoy. I don't mind sharing. But I don't offer 'support', or care to argue about the changes I make, and/or 'why'. Take them or leave them. It's copesetic.
Chuck B
Napamule

AndyG43
August 7th, 2011, 05:23
Andy,
(And, anyone else that's interested). I came up with a nice set of FDE's. It makes it a more powerful, but easy to handle, jet. Took me longer than I thought. Had to fly it. Couldn't quit. I changed a lot of things, so just plug the cfg and air file and go see. You must use together. Otherwise all bets are off. (It still amazes me how you guys fly with half of the cfg all messed up (especially in CFS)). No bueno.

There is a short readme in the zip for reference. You can edit the cfg and/or air file as you wish. You need to add you paints? Just make a copy first, just in case. Also, any feedback is welcome. Oh, I forgot to reset the lights (after the ref datum change) but it's too late already. Tomorrow I will fix them (sorry). Will talk later.

These FDEs are no for upload to any site that charges to download (or to look at) files. Neither should these files be included in any payware (all media). They are freeware, and they must remain freeware. Respect my rights. Thank You.
Chuck B
Napamule

You're not joking about it being more powerful - wow!!! Like you said, keeping the power at about 60% makes it more controllable & nearer to spec. I did make an attempt to 'dial in' some numbers with AirWrench, which brought the performance close to spec, but I then ended up with the same porpoising issues I had before, so I guess a lot more attention would be needed to other areas of the dynamics. Still got me stumped, which is irritating.

Rich
August 7th, 2011, 05:57
Slight overspeed me thinks and where did the wheels come from it was a flying boat not a amphib, pure what if and will stick with my own FDE, deleted after a 2 minute test flight

http://hud607.fire.prohosting.com/uncommon/aircraft/sra1/index.html

AndyG43
August 7th, 2011, 12:30
Would you be prepared to share yours Rich?

napamule
August 10th, 2011, 02:52
Andy,
Whoa nelly. It sure is TOO fast. What happened is that I did not comment out one of the engine sections, so essentially you had 'mucho power'. Too much. I flew it just right now and went and looked at cfg. So I made changes/corrections. My apologies. Mistake-mo (Senior Moment). So copy/paste the info below. Be sure to comment my engine section(s) and keep for the 'Air Show' performance only (ha). I put back the correct fuel load, too.

//UPDATE: Had bad sections (duplicate engines), and wrong
//fuel load. Still slightly fast (380 kts -vs- 342 kts, 60% pwr, for cruise)
//The range ('endurance') is correct (my main aim) at 2.2 hrs.
//FOR:
//title=Saunders-Roe Petrel FR.1 RAE
//sim=SRA1cb
//Useful Load=17000 Lbs(Fuel=2428 Gal/16028 Lbs)(Bal= 972 Lbs)

[fuel]
//Center1= 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 600.000, 0.000
LeftMain= 0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 914.000, 0.000
RightMain=0.000, 0.000, 0.000, 914.000, 0.000
LeftAux= 0.000, -5.333, 0.000, 300.000, 0.000
RightAux= 0.000, 5.333, 0.000, 300.000, 0.000
//Fuel Total= 2428 Gal/16028 Lbs
fuel_type=2
number_of_tank_selectors=1
electric_pump=0
//
////--- Below is the 'Updated' engine section(s): ------------
[GeneralEngineData]
engine_type=1
Engine.0=-2.500, 1.800, -1.500
Engine.1=-2.500, -1.800, -1.500
//Engine.0=-6.000000,1.000000,1.083333
//Engine.1=-6.000000,-1.000000,1.083333
fuel_flow_scalar= 0.600 //1.0
min_throttle_limit= -0.35 //0.0
//
[TurbineEngineData]
fuel_flow_gain= 0.010 //0.002
inlet_area= 20.860 //o=30.068760
rated_N2_rpm=29920.000
static_thrust= 22592.000 //15599.000
afterburner_available=0
/reverser_available= 1 //0
//
[jet_engine]
thrust_scalar =1.0
//---------------------------------------------------------------
//Note: Press 'I' (smoke) key for rockets (from '3/7 Charlie' repaint). effect name is: 'fx_rocketp'.OPTIONAL. Just for fun-too cool-so I couldn't resist. Cheers.
Chuck B
Napamule

AndyG43
August 18th, 2011, 12:17
Scenery gurus, can I ask for some pointers please?

Having just been made redundant, I have a chunk of free time on my hands (in between the search for a new job) so I've been playing with ACM and Air Wrench. I thought I'd look at Itosan's Wyvern for a number of reasons:

1) I've always found it a fascinating aircraft
2) It will fit neatly with another project I'm working on
3) There is an obvious 'donor' in the form of the Flying Stations Wyvern

So, I've plugged in the FDE's; unmodded they caused porpoising all over the place; so I've tried my best to amend them to better fit the Ito model, correcting the contact points, flying surface locations, fuel tank locations etc. And now she remains resolutely earth bound!!!!

I guess it all hinges on the datum point/CoG issues, can somebody please give me an idiots guide to where that should be, so I can try to get this one sorted? Obviously if I can lick this one, then I will be able to aplly the lessons learnt to some of the others.

Thanks in advance.

mikezola
August 18th, 2011, 21:22
Andy-
OK, so you have the Flying Stations Wyvern... it flies to your satisfaction, right? If so, then open its aircraft.cfg and add a line to the 'lights' section:
light.'x'= 3, 0, -3.0, 0, fx_navwhi,
Now fire up the sim, select the Wyvern, and turn on its lights- look for the extra light somewhere along the port side of the fuselage. That is showing you where the reference datum is with respect to length and height (if you made the light co-ords 0,0,0 you wouldn't see the light inside the fuselage). Make a mental note of where that light is along the model.
Now- repeat all of the above for Ito's Wyvern using his original aircraft.cfg and air files. You will most likely see a considerable difference in the position of that light. This difference(usually length and height, not centerline) is the amount you need to change the entry called 'reference_datum_position' in the weights and balances section of aircraft.cfg when you replace Ito's FDE files with the Flying Stations FDE files. Make a folder in Ito's folder called 'Orig FDE' or whatever you like and move the cfg and air files there. Then copy the FS Wyvern air and cfg files into the folder for Ito's, rename the air file appropriately, and over-write the title sections of the new aircraft.cfg with those of the original. Now change the values in 'reference_datum_position' to shift the location of that light to make it appear in the same place along Ito's model that it appeared along the Flying Stations model(this will probably take a few tries).
Following these steps should get you close, unless there's an entry in the FS Wyvern's air file that over-rides the entries in the aircraft.cfg (I ran into that with the He 219). The air file entry in particular is called 'center of lift offset' or something like that- if need be I'll find the number for you. Otherwise, if all goes well, you should only need to move the contact points a little and move your lights as needed.

This method has worked for me on a number of his aircraft- give it a try!
-Mike

AndyG43
August 19th, 2011, 11:31
Thanks Mike. I'm going to start over, using your suggested method, I'm sure that will give me much better results. :salute:

AndyG43
August 29th, 2011, 10:33
Wyvern is temporarily on hold, as I've been concentrating on a few other projects. I've now got a fairly decent FDE for Ito's Do 335, if anybody wants to give it a spin?

A non-Ito related question - I've been looking at the Gloster E28/39 Pioneer, which was made for FS2002. It needed work as contact points were out, weight was wrong etc; I've managed to sort those out & it seems to perform about right except ....... at about 30 KIAS it starts to pull to the left which, if this was a psiton engined aircraft, I'd assume was due o prop effect over the rudder - but, of course, it is a jet! What remarkably stupid beginners mistake have I made now?

sbp
October 13th, 2011, 14:37
Here's another aircraft by Mr. Ito who's FDE could use some tweaking. Downloaded from Simvation. Way too much engine power and speed & not very stable. Beautiful skin. Very rough VC.
FS2002/FS2004 Bell P-63A King Cobra (Category: FS2004 > Vintage)
Zip file preview
0.41Mb (2281 downloads)
FS2002/FS2004 Bell P-63A King Cobra. This aircraft was designed to address the shortcomings of the P-39 Airacobra. The P-63 was a fast airplane - its performance approaching that of the P-51 - but since the P-51 a test plane and, in a unique version, as live gunnery target training for bomber crews. by Kazunori Ito. 1.7MBand P-47 were in full production, about 2,400 of the 3,303 P-63s produced were sent to the Soviet Union under the Lend-Lease act. France used some in Indo-China after the end of World War II. The U.S. used it as
a test plane and, in a unique version, as live gunnery target training for bomber crews. by Kazunori Ito. 1.7MB
Posted Jun 23, 2008 14:23 by archive.
:salute:

SBP

MaddogK
October 13th, 2011, 15:28
Can someone post the flyable 388 FM ? I've been poking with the JU-388 for a couple years and the only way I've come close to making it flyable is putting a full bomb load on it. The horiz stab's have wayyyy too much lift, and when the airspeed gets to a certain point the tail goes up, nose goes into the dirt- your dead.

AndyG43
October 13th, 2011, 15:47
Can someone post the flyable 388 FM ? I've been poking with the JU-388 for a couple years and the only way I've come close to making it flyable is putting a full bomb load on it. The horiz stab's have wayyyy too much lift, and when the airspeed gets to a certain point the tail goes up, nose goes into the dirt- your dead.

Search for ju388l.zip at Flightsim, that should give you what you need.