T-38A Is OUT!

[mohawk3]

OK people,
check the MILVIZ website,

[wiltzei]

A few screenies.

http://thumb.phyrefile.com/w/wi/wiltzei/2011/07/04/300/milviz_t38a_1_wiltzei.jpg (http://www.phyrefile.com/image/view/tLJLODAlW9iD4YG2)

http://thumb.phyrefile.com/w/wi/wiltzei/2011/07/04/300/milviz_t38a_3_wiltzei.jpg (http://www.phyrefile.com/image/view/i0fqkanfNIjDRQp4)

http://thumb.phyrefile.com/w/wi/wiltzei/2011/07/04/300/milviz_t38a_2_wiltzei.jpg (http://www.phyrefile.com/image/view/7kn4S1GTdDHfAGHP)

http://thumb.phyrefile.com/w/wi/wiltzei/2011/07/04/300/milviz_t38a_4_wiltzei.jpg (http://www.phyrefile.com/image/view/PBC5fP9XMjFRbibr)

[DaveWG]

Thanks for the HU :salute:

Here's the link for the googley challenged: http://www.milviz.com/fs/item.php?id=T-38A

[Roadburner440]

Darn you beat me to it! Hope everyone has fun with the jet!

[fox18delta]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXmDj3mFrXQ

[Bob.sc]

Guys! I can download the file but says it is infected with 2 Trojan Horse Dropper files.

Please confirm. Thanks!

[wiltzei]

For some reason anti-virus programs think there's something dodgy with Flight1 wrapper. It's safe to continue, but it might require disabling AV protection for a while and/or turning down heuristics level.

[jmig]

Guys! I can download the file but says it is infected with 2 Trojan Horse Dropper files.

Please confirm. Thanks!

Its is the Flight 1 wrapper, Bob. I had the same problem with AVG. Something in the F1 code gives a false positive.

[Bob.sc]

Hey Thanks for the confirmation! 'Will press forward with the install.

Yeah!!!!

[spotlope]

It looks amazing! Very nice work, guys. And kudos on the release.

[skyhawka4m]

My only issue was it deleted my FSrecorder setup, and just to make sure I reloaded FSUIP too.

[skyblazer3]

Everything I hoped for. Congrats Milviz, she is fantastic. The sounds, the textures, the effects, the model, the flight dynamics...... all top shelf. I love it.

Beautiful airplane. :salute::salute::salute::salute::salute:

ps.. I had no problems with my FS Recorder setup, everything seems to work fine.

[DaveWG]

Great fun:jump:

421144211542116

[Roadburner440]

I must say I haven't had issues with FS Recorder either.. But strange things happen on computers. Hopefully you managed to get it sorted, and glad to see everyone is enjoying the bird! Is about time for me to start the grill. If anyone has any issues please be sure to visit our forums and follow the instructions: http://www.milviz.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=38 . Granted I don't anticipate many problems (at least we hope not) due to our wide beta focus on this. If any issues due arise though please bring them to our attention asap so we can help find a solution.

[wilycoyote4]

..........But strange things happen on computers..........time for me to start the grill......
LOL

Ahhhh, about the bases, can Milviz tell me, or everyone, what bases exactly? Please

About the grill, we'll be right over, thanks for the invite.

[Bob.sc]

Its is the Flight 1 wrapper, Bob. I had the same problem with AVG. Something in the F1 code gives a false positive.

It was the AVG. Installed just fine after deactivating the Resident Shield for the process.

Beautiful job MILVIZ! Thanks!!

[Roadburner440]

Off the top of my head (my FSX computer is shut down, so I cannot look at my scenery files to see) Randolph, Sheppard, Edwards, Vance, Beale, Columbus, Creech, Nellis, Reese, and Williams AFB.

[fsafranek]

Looks great guys. Congrats!
:ernae:

[Bone]

Off the top of my head (my FSX computer is shut down, so I cannot look at my scenery files to see) Randolph, Sheppard, Edwards, Vance, Beale, Columbus, Creech, Nellis, Reese, and Williams AFB.

Ken did Laughlin at the last minute. It should be in there too.

[OleBoy]

Congrats on the release. The screens on the site, it looks great!! Not for me though. I don't do anything with heavy system integrated pre-flight, in-flight, or after-flight. It's Ctrl+e for me :icon_lol:

Great job Milvis Team :ernae:

[Roadburner440]

LOL.. Just to dispell the myth Oleboy.. It is a Cntl-E bird as well. She is whatever you want her to be.. Even if you do everything by hand though it is very easy to start, and handle. Plus we included the standard Garmin GPS stackup (Shift+3) for those that don't want to do VOR navigation using the steam gauges/DME. We made this aircraft for a wide range of users, not just the hard core military types.. It is meant to be a trainer/lead in to our F-15C and F-15E Eagles that are upcoming.

[peter12213]

Can't wait to pick this up guys, looks really top notch, great idea of making a trainer before the Eagle release!

[Montie]

It looks fantastic! Just bought a new TV so I have to wait until next month.

[skyblazer3]

well worth the money. would anyone be interested in a multiplayer formation flight, or giving a shot at sharing the cockpit?

[n4gix]

Congrats on the release. The screens on the site, it looks great!! Not for me though. I don't do anything with heavy system integrated pre-flight, in-flight, or after-flight. It's Ctrl+e for me :icon_lol:


Ctrl-E?

It's actually FASTER to click on the two start buttons, flick the two finger lifts on the power levers*, since that way both engines start nearly simultaneously!

I can have both engines started in under thirty seconds!

* BTW, even with Ctrl-E one still must "unlock" the power levers from Cutoff to Idle position anyway.

[skyblazer3]

I'm confused about the training bases that are supposed to go with this..... were there just new afcad files made? I never saw my scenery reload once I installed the T-38, and I still have no parking spots at the training bases that were mentioned in this thread. Is it a separate download?

Either way, I am having a blast with this thing. Starting to get good landings....

[n4gix]

I'm confused about the training bases that are supposed to go with this.....

The AI and Airbase (Free!) package hasn't been released yet. It's being throughly Beta tested. I can report that even when loaded with 32 AI Talons on the ramp at Reese AFB, I experience virtually no impact on frame rates...

...I get a solid 29 (locked at 30). :)

[JAllen]

Jumped on this aircraft immediately! Read the quick start and took to the air. Two landings, one at Creech AFB and then Nellis. Just gotta say, WOW, I am shaking like a leaf. VERY nice job Milviz!!

Jim :salute:

[krazycolin]

And they will only cost...... NADA!!!!!

NB for those who purchased the T-38A

[n4gix]

Traffic on the ramps at KREE (as it existed in 1997 prior to closure)

4217342174

[n4gix]

Jumped on this aircraft immediately! Read the quick start and took to the air. Two landings, one at Creech AFB and then Nellis. Just gotta say, WOW, I am shaking like a leaf. VERY nice job Milviz!!

Jim :salute:

Did 'ya keep it around 0.6 units AoA? :applause:

[Ztimbre]

LOVE IT! Excellent work Milviz! (looking forward to the C model...)

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h64/Ztimbre/2011-4/MWSnap889.jpg

[glennc]

I was assigned to the USAF Clinic at Vance in the mid-1980s. What I'll call my Christmas present one year was simulator (full motion with video some of the time) rides in both the T-37 and T-38. The T-38 IP I "flew" with was the physiological training officer at the clinic. He knew I was a private pilot, even then inactive for a few years. With a lot of coaching, I landed the T-38 on the first try :wiggle: only to get a chuckle for the instructor station and a brake failure. :salute:

No such luck on the Milviz airplane. It took three tries and in answer to Bill's question to someone else: Down final, yes, but I insisted in pulling the nose up in the flair. Ouch!!

Glenn

[JAllen]

I have no idea what the AoA was. Couldn't look. LOL Lots of speed and very little flair. The sounds are from another world!! Too much control input and the subwoofer was shaking the desk. Gets attention quick.

Jim

[wiltzei]

This jet teaches how to fly properly in the hard way. It is a bit like the Fokker Eindecker regarding the AoA. ;) A little shallower glide path on approach helps during the flare, as described on the manual.

[JAllen]

Green donut at touchdown can't be bad, right? Compared to everything else in FSX, making a simple turn is an adventure. Really get a feel for stick pressure I think. Small inputs make good things happen but big movements make disasters. 'Pulling the turn' now has a new meaning. Pull, no, FEEL the turn is more like it.

I expect many will get it in the air and completely HATE the experience of trying to fly it. I was not so happy with it for the first 10 minutes. Those who think the A7 was difficult are going to need a tranquilizer if they try the T38A! Docile this Talon is NOT.

Question, was the T38 meant to be tough to fly, so tough that big jets are made easier to live with?

I'm going to be flying the T38A for a long time. Commuting to Nellis in my camo painted 310.


Jim

[Thunderbolt]

nice work :applause:

http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x413/D-reg/S_029.jpg

[glennc]

One point the IP made with me, as we responded to an accident, was if something goes wrong at less than 150 feet, you are dead before you percieve it and begin to respond. Milviz's history about the airplane being designed for future century series pilots rings true. The delta wing -102. And -106 especially, and the B-58, have reputations for being really difficult rides.Glenn

[jmig]

...
Question, was the T38 meant to be tough to fly, so tough that big jets are made easier to live with?...


Jim

Jim when I was in pilot training my IP once told me, "If you can fly the T-38, you can fly anything."

I would like to clear up a misconception. The T-38 is not a hard plane to fly. 50,000 and counting pilots can attest to my previous sentence. However, you have to fly the T-38. It was designed and still is an advanced trainer.

When the plane was built, the term "Widow Maker" applied to several of the current fighters. The reason was pilots were coming out of the T-33, which is a very easy plane to fly and going into swept wing, delta wing fighters with very different flight characteristics, especially in landing. So the T-38 was created to teach pilot how to handle these airplane in a two seat IP controlled environment.

One of the problems with the Century series fighters was the speed in which things happen. Pilots would not be prepared for this and get behind the airplane. Getting behind the airplane in a fighter will kill you. The T-38 allowed you to get up to the speed of the aircraft. A true story. One which I still remember as clear as day some 40 years later.

In my T-38 dollar ride I was in the back seat. I remember pumping the brakes, seeing the engine RPM gauges to to 100%, brake release, feeling the ABs, and seeing the nozzles swing open. The next thing I recall is climbing out of traffic and the IP was contacting departure control. I was behind the aircraft. :icon_lol: At this point I had over 200 hours of flying time.

Enjoy the Milviz T-38. Just give yourself time and patience to learn to fly. It takes the average student pilot 12-14 hours to solo the bird. Learn to fly it and you will experience one of the most faithfully accurate aircraft within the limits of FSX.

[Roadburner440]

Question, was the T38 meant to be tough to fly, so tough that big jets are made easier to live with?


Just from a sheer aerodynamics standpoint the T-38A will be harder to fly than your average aircraft at lower airspeed. The narrow wingspan, and thinner chord of the T-38 naturally give it very poor low airspeed characteristics while decreasing drag. Which is the main reason it requires such high takeoff/landing speeds compared to say the Cessna 310. The faster you fly the T-38 the better, and easier it will handle. That is one of the reason that the fatalities are mentioned above for pilots transitioning from trainers to the Century Series fighters before the T-38. You take someone from a stable, high profile wing aircraft. Then put them in a less stable low profile wing aircraft, and you are bound to get accidents as the pilots are not used to thinking that fast so early in their career. So the T-38 is mainly meant to be a lead in to these type of aircraft by replicating their design characteristics in a 2 pilot configuration for safety of training. Granted you do not have the IP there to teach you how to fly, so kind of have to figure it out for yourself and that is where the difficulty comes in. I have had MANY crashes in early T-38 testing. All part of the learning curve. Hope you have fun flying her!

[Skyhawk18]

I am pleased to see that you are enjoying this great model :icon_lol:
Here's a documentary that will tell you how it is to take a ride in a real Talon.
This video from Beale AFB is long, but you will learn a lot about this special aircraft.
For those with patience: http://vimeo.com/groups/aviation/videos/19124023

Keep training, and you will find our next release (F-15) easy to fly :cost1:

[wilycoyote4]

I am pleased to see that you are enjoying this great model :icon_lol:
Here's a documentary that will tell you how it is to take a ride in a real Talon.
This video from Beale AFB is long, but you will learn a lot about this special aircraft.
For those with patience: http://vimeo.com/groups/aviation/videos/19124023

Keep training, and you will find our next release (F-15) easy to fly :cost1:
Right. I talked with a USAF pilot 15 or more years ago about the T-38, in short, the Talon was flown very carefully, with a delicate touch like milking a mouse. The F-15 has wonderful low speed flight handling by comparison.

In addition, he said he and the IP rarely went supersonic. Once through the sound barrier the handling was different. If I recall, stick input produced about one-third of aircraft response with a great danger that if you dropped your speed to subsonic with the stick in that position then the aircraft would respond with great quickness making high G and loss of flight control possible.

That's the best I can remember.

[CP1207]

Crashed on takeoff... I'm going to like this one! Well done:salute:

This is the plane that will get me to spring for the new processor.

[jmig]

Right. I talked with a USAF pilot 15 or more years ago about the T-38, in short, the Talon was flown very carefully, with a delicate touch like milking a mouse. The F-15 has wonderful low speed flight handling by comparison.

In addition, he said he and the IP rarely went supersonic. Once through the sound barrier the handling was different. If I recall, stick input produced about one-third of aircraft response with a great danger that if you dropped your speed to subsonic with the stick in that position then the aircraft would respond with great quickness making high G and loss of flight control possible.

That's the best I can remember.

Willy, most, if not all of the pre-fly-by-wire, computer driven fighters were that way. A series of bellows and weights were used for stick feel. In the trans-supersonic region, you had to careful to not over G the aircraft.

The only time you really did hard pulling was in 1 v 1 and you never went supersonic unless it was to unload and get the heck out of dodge.

[deathfromafar]

Jim when I was in pilot training my IP once told me, "If you can fly the T-38, you can fly anything."

I would like to clear up a misconception. The T-38 is not a hard plane to fly. 50,000 and counting pilots can attest to my previous sentence. However, you have to fly the T-38. It was designed and still is an advanced trainer.

When the plane was built, the term "Widow Maker" applied to several of the current fighters. The reason was pilots were coming out of the T-33, which is a very easy plane to fly and going into swept wing, delta wing fighters with very different flight characteristics, especially in landing. So the T-38 was created to teach pilot how to handle these airplane in a two seat IP controlled environment.

One of the problems with the Century series fighters was the speed in which things happen. Pilots would not be prepared for this and get behind the airplane. Getting behind the airplane in a fighter will kill you. The T-38 allowed you to get up to the speed of the aircraft. A true story. One which I still remember as clear as day some 40 years later.

In my T-38 dollar ride I was in the back seat. I remember pumping the brakes, seeing the engine RPM gauges to to 100%, brake release, feeling the ABs, and seeing the nozzles swing open. The next thing I recall is climbing out of traffic and the IP was contacting departure control. I was behind the aircraft. :icon_lol: At this point I had over 200 hours of flying time.

Enjoy the Milviz T-38. Just give yourself time and patience to learn to fly. It takes the average student pilot 12-14 hours to solo the bird. Learn to fly it and you will experience one of the most faithfully accurate aircraft within the limits of FSX.

I remember talking to a couple of B-52H Drivers about their time flying the T-37 & T-38. Was interesting but what stuck out in my mind was when they bluntly told me that students who weren't cutting it by a certain number of hours in T-37's were washed out as it was deemed they would be unable to safely transition to and master the T-38 within the projected schedule slots. One of my high school friends got his AF Wings back in the 80's and I remember him coming in one weekend in a T-38 just before he transitioned to the C-9. He told me the IP's were super strict on a SP's ability to maintain preciseness(envelope-speeds/altitude) in traffic patterns in the 38.

[fliger747]

The major differences in the t-38 and most aircraft you may be familiar with stem from the small thin profile wing (such as it is). Two items, a small AOA range (at least you don't have to chase it all over the place) and a generally high thrust setting, even on approach. 92% seems to be a recurring RPM value, especially on approach.

Think you have the stuff to be a hot shot USAF fighter pilot, ya have to show mastery of the T-38 first.

Not easy, not impossible, satisfying to master.

T

[skyblazer3]

Is anyone working on repaints? I am loving this aircraft -- finally feeling good in the pattern -- time for some Solo cross country.

Chris

[JAllen]

I think the hardest part of flying the T38A is speed. I have a strong urge to slow down in the pattern and then the buffet sounds hit the subwoofer and my desk starts dancing. Gets my attention!! Great video too! Thanks Gunnar. I noticed in the video how the aircraft vibrates in the turn to final. AND to think we call the C124 ' Old Shakey '

Oh, the rudder, how much rudder do you use to coordinate a turn? The Talon has me scared to even touch the rudder in the pattern unless absolutely necessary. How much lead do I take out of my shoes? :icon_lol:

Amazing that I haven't crashed this airplane . . . yet.

Jim

[JIMJAM]

I have not read every line in the manual but think I have a malfunctioning engine rpm gauge. At least I have never seen one that moves lower when the throttle is advanced. Appears to move backwards during the 0- approx 80% throttle setting. In other words starts at 80% idle then indicates lower as throttle is advanced. Actually goes from 80% down to zero as I move the throttle. Then just before where the afterburner kicks in it jumps up to 80% and then moves higher towards 100%.
Saitek x52 default settings. Afterburner indent and settings works well on all other jets.

[Barfly]

"Oh, the rudder, how much rudder do you use to coordinate a turn? The Talon has me scared to even touch the rudder in the pattern unless absolutely necessary. How much lead do I take out of my shoes? :icon_lol:"


Keep your feet on the floor in the pattern, lol. There is no need to ever use rudder to coordinate turns - There is a tiny amount of adverse yaw present in this sim and IRL, but it is more of a distraction than a help if you try to compensate for it - you won't feel it and it won't really affect your turn.

There are only a few times when you need to use rudder or it is very useful:

- high alpha turns, when aileron effectiveness is diminished you can step on some rudder to keep the aircraft rolling.

- on the ground for some directional control on takeoff before rotation, or after touchdown with the nosewheel down. On takeoff roll, best technique for crosswind controls is aileron into the wind, and a little differential braking to keep the nose straight. You can use rudder to help keep the nose straight once it becomes effective, just make sure you take it out before you rotate, or you will get an undesireable roll at liftoff.

- never attempt to straighten the nose with rudder when landing in a crosswind - land in a crab just like the real thing. With this aircraft, any rudder inputs at approach speeds (moderately high aoa) will introduce a roll moment that you do not want to be fighting through the landing phase.

[Barfly]

I have not read every line in the manual but think I have a malfunctioning engine rpm gauge. At least I have never seen one that moves lower when the throttle is advanced. Appears to move backwards during the 0- approx 80% throttle setting. In other words starts at 80% idle then indicates lower as throttle is advanced. Actually goes from 80% down to zero as I move the throttle. Then just before where the afterburner kicks in it jumps up to 80% and then moves higher towards 100%.
Saitek x52 default settings. Afterburner indent and settings works well on all other jets.

Sounds exactly like nozzle operation. The nozzle gauges really catch your attention because they move almost in concert with the throttles - the actual rpm is very slow to spool up from idle. From top to bottom: RPM, EGT, Nozzles, Fuel Flow.

[JIMJAM]

Ok :redface:

It was 1 am last night when I bought the plane. Actually the computer froze during the process and I might have put 3 on my Visa! Eventually got it through Paypal but I need to verify I did not get charged for a couple copies. The t-38 is good but I do not need 3.

I will wait to see a vid of the gauge as its being displayed during flight.

[dvj]

Thanks for the HU :salute:

Here's the link for the googley challenged: http://www.milviz.com/fs/item.php?id=T-38A

BTW, when I use the "buy now" link and download the file, I get an immediate virus alert from AVG when I extract it. Trojan virus of some type. I'll try and find this model later when released to retailers.

d

[n4gix]

Oh, the rudder, how much rudder do you use to coordinate a turn? The Talon has me scared to even touch the rudder in the pattern unless absolutely necessary. How much lead do I take out of my shoes? :icon_lol:


Honestly, practically none whatsoever. In a jet like the T-38, the designers gave it "differential ailerons", so that the up aileron sticks up much further, giving extra drag, and thus cancelling out the induced drag of the down aileron. That's why you don't need to use rudders to get a coordinated turn in the T-38.

Here is a link to a terrific story about the T-38A from walk-around to landing:

http://www.warbirdalley.com/articles/t38pr.htm

Of particular instance is this quote from the article:

The T-38 can be flown throughout its performance envelope, from aerobatics to patterns and landings, with barely any use of the rudder. With the landing gear retracted, only 6 degrees of rudder deflection is available, and in the landing configuration, 30 degrees is available.

Like an arrow, the Talon goes where it is pointed, not where it is banked. This means that turns are accomplished by banking in the desired direction (thus placing the lift vector where the plane needs to go) and pulling the nose to the desired point. To lower the nose to gain airspeed for an aerobatic maneuver, it is simpler and more comfortable to roll the plane upside down, pull the nose down to the desired pitch, then roll it upright again.


Here's an interesting story about a "batstrike" during a student's first night solo flight in the T-38A.

http://www.airspacemag.com/military-aviation/Batstrike.html?c=y&page=1

[krazycolin]

BTW, when I use the "buy now" link and download the file, I get an immediate virus alert from AVG when I extract it. Trojan virus of some type. I'll try and find this model later when released to retailers.

d

This is a common effect of the anti-piracy coding on anti-virus programs. It is guaranteed to not have a virus. If it does, I will, personally, pay for someone to reinstall all of your software.

You should be good to go.

[n4gix]

BTW, when I use the "buy now" link and download the file, I get an immediate virus alert from AVG when I extract it. Trojan virus of some type. I'll try and find this model later when released to retailers.

d

http://www.flight1.com/view.asp?page=wrapperinfo#3


I get a DLL or other file error message, or my virus scanner gives me a warning.

Unfortunately, one of the most common issues when people can't get software to run is interference from a Virus or Spyware scanner. Although they do good things, in many cases they can interrupt programs you may want to run. If you get an error message that does not appear to be from the downloaded EXE, you need to make sure your virus or spyware scanner is disabled prior to running the EXE. If you are concerned about this, you can scan the file prior to running it, and then after your purchase, if you are prompted to automatically run the setup application, select No, then manually scan the setup application. This is usually extracted right after your purchase is made.

False-Positive reports with software is common. If you have special concerns, please submit a customer service ticket (http://www.flight1.com/ticket.asp) and we will try to help.

[JIMJAM]

Ok I am loving the plane. I enjoy the balancing a marble on a razer and if you step outside the envelope you will bust your azz ala F104.
Now my question. Can anything be damaged short of crashing?
Guess I kinda jaded with the warbirds with the realism simulating overheating,stress from over speed ect.

[Barfly]

IMO a lot of payware releases are a bit overdone with catastrophic failures. This one is fairly realistic with respect to over-g, hard landings, overspeed, and overheat. There is room for error beyond a number of the limitations which would require a postflight inspection for potential damage, as opposed to guaranteed failure.

[Bob.sc]

"Honestly, practically none whatsoever. In a jet like the T-38, the designers gave it "differential ailerons", so that the up aileron sticks up much further, giving extra drag, and thus cancelling out the induced drag of the down aileron. That's why you don't need to use rudders to get a coordinated turn in the T-38."

For discussion purposes...The F-104 can be flown with "your feet on the floor" too!
Cheers

[StormILM]

Just purchased the T-38 and am highly impressed! To the Milviz Dev Team and Beta Testers, GREAT JOB FOLKS! :salute::applause:

BTW, my system is below the so called minimum specs. I am running a single core P4 at 3.2ghz, 2gb of memory, an older Ati HD2600 Pro card at 512mb. She runs at 20 to 25fps consistently peaking at 30fps! Some of you guys with lower end systems similar to my specs may be okay running this one.

Got her started fine, ran a few aerobatic maneuvers and pattern work and no accidents! LMAO! The FDE is a work of art IMHO.

Again, great job!

[Roadburner440]

That is excellent to hear Storm! At least this is a good turnaround from the old days where we were creating slideshows on peoples systems. :icon_lol: At least we are making progress in the right, and more efficient direction in terms of performance.

[Bone]

The FDE is a work of art IMHO.

Again, great job!

Two SOH members, Bstolle and Barfly, did alot of number crunching on this FDE. It was really cool to watch the evolution of all the succesive airfiles that came out, one after the other for the Beta test team to fly.

Of course, another SOH member, N4GIX, is the one who built the model and did all the coding. He put so much work into the thing, it's just unbelievable.

A healthy round of applause is in order for these three guys!

[Mathias]

Congrats on the release, guys!
A beauty and quite a handfull to fly!

[krazycolin]

Two SOH members, Bstolle and Barfly, did alot of number crunching on this FDE. It was really cool to watch the evolution of all the succesive airfiles that came out, one after the other for the Beta test team to fly.

Of course, another SOH member, N4GIX, is the one who built the model and did all the coding. He put so much work into the thing, it's just unbelievable.

A healthy round of applause is in order for these three guys!

Er... N4GIX didn't do the model. He did do the code! The model was done by Vik and the paints by Dmitriy.

This doesn't, in any way, diminish what N4GIX did... (or what Bernt and Barfly and Ken and me AND YOU and Ville and Gunnar and JMIG and if i missed anyone sorry!)

[Bone]

Er... N4GIX didn't do the model. He did do the code! The model was done by Vik and the paints by Dmitriy.

This doesn't, in any way, diminish what N4GIX did... (or what Bernt and Barfly and Ken and me AND YOU and Ville and Gunnar and JMIG and if i missed anyone sorry!)


OK, my bad. Everyone gets a round of applause.

*clap clap clap clap clap clap.....*

[krazycolin]

T-38A is now available on Simmarket. 5 bucks more and no money back guarantee... Do as you will!

[fsafranek]

Ok :redface:

It was 1 am last night when I bought the plane. Actually the computer froze during the process and I might have put 3 on my Visa! Eventually got it through Paypal but I need to verify I did not get charged for a couple copies. The t-38 is good but I do not need 3.

I will wait to see a vid of the gauge as its being displayed during flight.

Since you've got a few extra I'll buy one off you for half price. :icon_lol:

I think you need to be talking to your Visa card company about this and not this forum. Just sayin'
:ernae:

[res non verba]

425844258342582

Wow, congrats, what a wonderful aircraft to fly!!!

only needs a very long, long, long runway, and with almost no brakes it's a challenge, lol!
i'm still mastering the landing phase :wiggle:
:ernae:

[JIMJAM]

I am having some ill handling charateristics I do not think are the Talon's FM. One reason I think that way is it changes according to the weather I have loaded. Or should I say I "think" its related to the weather but the head scratcher is it seems to effect only the t-38. More testing needed.
For example.
Take off and the torque roll is worse than a P-51 max realism. Level flight almost impossible. Talking wrist failure after a few minutes of the death grip. Hand off and the 38 will slow rol either left or right 360 and keep going and if its got alot of torque. But..... I have turned Active Sky OFF and the plane is smooth and stable hands off. Back on and it appears to stay stable. Its seems 1st load of a reload and the plane is very unstable in the roll axis. Change to a different plane and its smooth. I dunno? Stab aug is ON but it feels like a F-117 without it computers or a F-16 with its wings clipped off. I know the Talon's Fm is twitchy but this is beyond that.
I suspect Active Sky's winds or turb is the cause but I cannot prove it.
BTW- I have the speed brake bound to my stick but where in the pit is it?
Is it like the Hog where there is no indication that is up/down? At least with the hog you can look over your shoulder. Going to outside view is kinda cheating.
Havin fun with it.:mixedsmi:

[Barfly]

It's possible that the autopilot was activated somehow... even thought the aircraft has no autopilot installed, and no in-aircraft controls; you can still activate FSX autopilot functions using key commands. I think 'z' is the stock command to turn it on or off, perhaps that will solve it. Also check the rudder trim knob and ensure it's centered (knob is aft of throttle quadrant).

The speed brake is a thumb switch on the right side of the right throttle, though it isn't animated like the real thing. IRL the plane has a three position sliding switch that you could verify position by feel with your thumb, or observe switch position visually. The switch that is modeled is a 'rocker', and it's hard to see it's motion when actuating.

[n4gix]

Three things to note:

1. Make sure all realism settings are fully right

2. There is a switch on the right power lever to extend/retract the speed brakes.

3. Clue that speed brake is extended is the buffet-noise.

[bstolle]

I am having some ill handling charateristics I do not think are the Talon's FM. One reason I think that way is it changes according to the weather I have loaded. Or should I say I "think" its related to the weather but the head scratcher is it seems to effect only the t-38. More testing needed.
For example.
Take off and the torque roll is worse than a P-51 max realism. .:mixedsmi:

I don't have Active sky and just tried a pattern with a 25kts crosswind gusting to 40 with max turbulence and max shear strenght.
Surprisingly stable...well not really surprising due to the T-38s tiny wing, just the AoA needle moves around a lot.
No torque effect on this plane and I didn't experience any uncommanded roll.

[StormILM]

JimJam, check to see if you're experiencing a fuel imbalance by checking to see if one tank is lower than the other after takeoff. I experienced the same issue one only a couple of models that never affected the rest. What I found was that I saved a flight as a default flight using an addon aircraft. For some reason, that caused a couple of aircraft to use fuel from one side rather than set for all/both tanks selected. As soon as the fuel burned down on one side, the effect was immediate with the plane not staying level. The fix was to save one of the stock Cessna's as my default flight.


On a separate issue(minor), a question regarding the roll rate/characteristics. The overall FDE is super but for some reason the roll inputs/getting a feel for how much roll rate and where to stop it is very difficult. My X52 in-sim settings are Max sensitivity but when adding roll inputs, the roll rate is slightly sluggish at first almost like there is a delay/dynamic force against the input & initial roll moments. But once it starts rolling, the roll rate at Max Deflection is out of sight!(better than 800 degrees per second -estimated). It's no big deal flying routine maneuvering but it makes it hard to be precise with aerobatics in the roll inputs. It's really no issue, just wondering if anyone else is experiencing similar Aileron feel?

[bstolle]

Might be because at 4.5in stick travel you get only 50% aileron deflection.
The remaining 1.5in stick travel give you the remaining 50% deflection!
That aileron/stick ratio has been built into the flight model

[JIMJAM]

Thanks for all the post.
Yeah something is wrong and tonight I will do some troubleshooting and maybe a reinstall.
Loaded default plane,then the 38,fuel-check,cg,ok,weather ASV clear with light winds. Smooth take off and climb out. Got into some clouds and the plane went hyper sensitive on me. Roll instability.
Also I know the aircraft well from being around them both in the air and when Astronaut Bolden came home for visits to Columbia SC. The T-38s are like rental cars for the astronauts to run around in and do errands. He and others would always show off a little on arrival and dep. When you have been to space you can do that!
sound and the aircraft starts to feel mushy. Even at 300k to do a 180 takes up most of Edwards AFB. Any tighter and the plane will fall out of the sky. I understand the wing is as thin as my keyboard and the loading must be incredibly high but Ive watched many a cowboy yank these planes around the pattern. You cannot carelessly yank on the stick but these planes do not bark at you so easily. They blow those bicycle tires all the time though. I am going to turn off Activesky and play, I mean test some more later.

[n4gix]

JimJam, check to see if you're experiencing a fuel imbalance by checking to see if one tank is lower than the other after takeoff.

Good guess, but all tanks are in the center fuselage one behind another. There's hardly enough room in those thin wings for air, much less fuel... :icon_lol:

[JIMJAM]

I just flew about a good hour and something is spooking the plane. One flight its stable and I can crank tight turns without a wimper and later it wants to growl at me with the slightest pull on the stick. I have a special flight chair with a subwoofer in it and that effect makes my eyes blur :icon_lol: Maybe someone can post a good shakedown video on youtube and I can see if its normal ops for this aircraft.
But plz no music........

[Barfly]

What speeds are you flying, and what is the associated g are you pulling? Can you remember what the AOA indexer was reading when this was happening?

[JIMJAM]

Later I will pay attention and be more specific. I can tell you that flying over Edwards main runway at 300k it takes up most the area to do a 180 degree turn. Any tighter and I need to go burner. I can also be flying level at 300 plus and with 2 fingers on the stick invoke a stall by tapping the stick backwards.
Every take off no matter what the rotate speed is hairy. I have to nurse the plane off the ground and handle it with tlc. Even with 50% fuel and dumping the other guy out.

[bstolle]

Later I will pay attention and be more specific. I can tell you that flying over Edwards main runway at 300k it takes up most the area to do a 180 degree turn. Any tighter and I need to go burner. I can also be flying level at 300 plus and with 2 fingers on the stick invoke a stall by tapping the stick backwards.
Every take off no matter what the rotate speed is hairy. I have to nurse the plane off the ground and handle it with tlc. Even with 50% fuel and dumping the other guy out.

300kts is rather slow, nevertheless I can keep a constant 60deg bank angle at 94% RPM and the AoA at 0.6 units at max take off weight and that needs approx 50% aft stick travel.
To get into a real stall you need more than 90% stick travel.
Don't mistake the 'rumbling' for a stall. Rumbling starts below 0.5 units AoA , visual buffeting starts at about 0.8 units.
With only 50% fuel and full burner at 300kts with the stick fully aft, you should be flying in very heavy buffeting with a bank angle of approx 75deg but still in full control while pulling around 3.5Gs

[StormILM]

I have no problem keeping tight traffic patterns at or below 250kias and staying largely out of buffet. As long as I maintain the AoA Doughnut Green and keep the power where it needs to be(Pitch Controls Airspeed, Power Controls Sinkrate) , all is good. I keep the power spooled up all the way down with very slight flare.

Some old T-Bird T-38 footage:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6co0Al1UGg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6tqq6vgxwE&NR=1


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nb9A18CFE98&feature=related

FYI, the second video shows the late Colonel D.L. Smith(Commander Leader) and Brigadier General Jim Latham(Then Captain) who was a Vietnam POW.

[JAllen]

Finally got back to some flying late lastnight, shame that work keeps getting in the way. I flew my T-38 around the Seattle area doing touch n go at various airports. Seems to fly smoothly at 400kt and still have not crashed it, amazing for me. I fly by feel and not so much looking at AoA gauges(probably wrong). If the rumbles start I am too slow or I am doing something perhaps that can be done better? Exception, in the pattern. Turning base and final are noisy but seem better with full flap. All my turns were very wide as JimJam reports, but, my feel is improving and the turns much tighter now that I don't fear the rumbles. I definitely need more understanding of AoA. Probably why I suck at carrier landing too.

One aspect that I have no problem with at all from the beginning is takeoff. Only time I am actually watching a gauge!!! Climb as wheels leave the ground can get away from me but keeping that under control has improved greatly.

Thank you so much to you guys who have commented and given such cool insight. You and this thread are what this forum is all about. I think it shows what a great addon the Milviz T-38A is. SWEEEEEEEET!!

Keeping both feet on the floor,

Jim

[Bone]

I fly by feel and not so much looking at AoA gauges(probably wrong). If the rumbles start I am too slow or I am doing something perhaps that can be done better?

Jim

The challenge comes from doing it by the numbers. Of course, you can fly an approach to landing without ever looking at guages or the AoA indexer and do just fine, but you're most likely flying too fast approach speeds...which is totally OK since this is all just for fun. This model is actually EASY to fly the overhead break and sweeping turn to final approach at higher speeds than what the book calls for.

The main thing is enjoyment, no matter how you derive it from this model...fast or on speed.

[JIMJAM]

I hope nobody takes my comments as negative against the T-38. I LOVE a challenging aircraft to fly but sometimes you are wondering if a particular characteristic is on purpose ,a bug or somthing you are doing wrong. One of my favs was the Cloud 9 F-104. Now that was a handfull and there were things that of you did not do, like maintain the engine% with flaps the plane did not buffet but you were losing the plane and ejecting. Period.
This fm is challenging and makes you fly the plane. However I know its a thin line betreen representing a aircrafts challenging quirks and being just not fun to fly and a aggrevation. There was a Lear 25 released recently that they tried to demonstrate the aircrafts pitch instability. IMO instead of being a challenge it was a terrible flight model. I have tweeked that plane to death trying to make it semi enjoyable but have given up.
Ok, I am getting long winded again. Flew more last night and the only things I would like to see done are, a speed brake indication. Yeah I know the sound is there but sound is a poor way to verify. Particularily dangerous on take off. And the gps/autopilot screen I would like to see as 2 separate popups as not to take up so much of the screen when opened.

[Barfly]

@JAllen: You're doing it right - using a normal crosscheck and feel - the AOA indexer is more or less a backup instrument, depending on what you're doing.

edit - for a smoother takeoff, try 'cutting pitch picture in half'. Note the distance between the top of the dash and horizon on the takeoff roll, then rotate just enough to halve that space. It will make for a pretty shallow but realistic takeoff attitude - hold that pitch through cleanup, pull out of burner at 240, accel to 300 in mil.

[bstolle]

There was a Lear 25 released recently that they tried to demonstrate the aircrafts pitch instability. IMO instead of being a challenge it was a terrible flight model.

R U talking about the x-prototype Lear? The FDs aren't great but I don't experience any pitch instability. As you seem to have the same problem with the T-38 it's sounds even more possible now that it has something to do with your joystick setup.

[JAllen]

Thanks Barfly, I will try that. I assume use the takeoff trim preset? Is it released as part of cleanup? The manual spells out setting it but I missed releasing it. Takeoff attitude was nicer when I forgot to set it. Noticed the manual doesn't mention trimming the aircraft. Is the elevator trim on the stick or does it have some magic to eliminate the need for one? LOL I have a Warthog stick and the trim switch works just fine for me.

OK Bone, I intend to learn to fly by the numbers too. Learning to keep up with the aircraft. Sure is fun!

Jim

[Barfly]

Thanks Barfly, I will try that. I assume use the takeoff trim preset? Is it released as part of cleanup? The manual spells out setting it but I missed releasing it. Takeoff attitude was nicer when I forgot to set it. Noticed the manual doesn't mention trimming the aircraft. Is the elevator trim on the stick or does it have some magic to eliminate the need for one? LOL I have a Warthog stick and the trim switch works just fine for me.

No problem. The takeoff trim button and associated green light are only used for initial takeoff; after that you just use the standard thumb switch on the stick. Even with takeoff trim in the green, you really need a large initial aft stick movement to get the proper takeoff pitch set - that is normal. In fact the only times you should normally use a large aft stick movement are on takeoff, setting tkof attitude, and after landing during 'aerobrake'. For every other maneuver you do, no more than a few inches of stick travel are necessary.

[skyhawka4m]

no repaints yet? Well here's a suggestion for the box....

http://www.aircraftslides.com/auction/images/15204e2dccimg335_1.jpg

[bstolle]

Take off trim is the neutral position, which means it's already set when loading the plane.

[skyhawka4m]

http://www.aircraftslides.com/auction/images/15710c0e0223.jpg

[krazycolin]

We will be doing the T-38C in the near future. It will be offered at a lower rate for those who bought the A. Coming soon.... (no specific date offered) It will, however, have a GPS and an AP....

Have fun and keep those feet on the floor!

[bstolle]

We will be doing the T-38C in the near future.

That's an A in the photo above. Similar like this: http://100megspopup.com/photo4phood/webaircraft/lbbt38-6a.jpg (you have to use copy & paste the address to be able to see it)

A T-38A with this camo would be great and is definitely needed!

[skyhawka4m]

yes it is a T-38A :salute:

[skyhawka4m]

this is a C variant I shot a few months back before my local base shut down.

42734

[n4gix]

...and the only things I would like to see done are, a speed brake indication. Yeah I know the sound is there but sound is a poor way to verify.

Well, there is a visual check for speedbrake extension, but it is very subtle...

...look on the side of the right power lever and note the switch position. If it's rotated "back" then the speedbrakes are extended.

[Bone]

That's an A in the photo above. Similar like this: http://100megspopup.com/photo4phood/webaircraft/lbbt38-6a.jpg (you have to use copy & paste the address to be able to see it)

A T-38A with this camo would be great and is definitely needed!


I agree, it would be nice to have a gray camo paint available for this model.

[krazycolin]

I know it's an A... i was only saying that we will be offering the C as well...

[Skyhawk18]

http://www.aircraftslides.com/auction/images/15710c0e0223.jpg


Working on a USNTPS livery right now. A black Holloman livery is finished and will be available very soon. This Randolph Talon has been on my work list. So it will be painted sooner or later :icon_lol:

[skyhawka4m]

I know it's an A... i was only saying that we will be offering the C as well...


Roger that!

[muletrain]

Broke down and bought this White Rocket.
Very nice!
Requires a gentle hand and an eagle eye for airspeed while thinking at least 5 miles ahead of the airplane.

However, when I try to replay the last several minutes after landing in order to critique my approach/landing technique only the HUD shows up. No VC or external view. Has this been reported? Is there any way to fix this?

I can do external views during flight but not in the playback function.

Thanks for any ideas.
Roy Marsh

[skyblazer3]

Works fine using the FS Recorder software -- all systems and internal/external model are a go.

Do a google search for FS Recorder if you don't have it it already -- you can record your entire flight, play it back, fast forward, rewind, etc. It has a lot of capability. It is also freeware! It runs as an addon inside of FSX.

I record each of my flights. T-38 works great with the software.

Good Luck,

Chris

[FlameOut]

I have yet to purchased the T-38.

try to replay the last several minutes after landing in order to critique my approach/landing technique only the HUD shows up. No VC or external view. Has this been reported? Is there any way to fix this?



Surely the FSX Acceleration default replay function will be addressed soon.

[Roadburner440]

I have yet to purchased the T-38.


Surely the FSX Acceleration default replay function will be addressed soon.

We will take a lot into this, but as we all know when you start coding things outside of FSX's standard structure the playback ability of them is diminished. Granted at the very least the model should show up in replay as there is not THAT much that is coded outside of the game. :icon_lol: I know most of us (most likely all) use FS Recorder. I highly recommend the program. I only downloaded it about a month ago at the same time I bought the EZ Dock camera from Flight1. Both excellent pieces of software, and I do not know how I have gone this long without them. We will just have to take a look and see what it is doing wth the standard replay software though.

[n4gix]

However, when I try to replay the last several minutes after landing in order to critique my approach/landing technique only the HUD shows up. No VC or external view. Has this been reported? Is there any way to fix this?


There's something broken at your end. Regular FSX "Replay" works just fine here:

[muletrain]

Thanks for the feedback gentlemen.
I'll look into this FS Recorder program.
:-)

[LonelyplanetXO]

Hm, just back from holidays so thought I'd better try this baby out... Here's some feedback...HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE...WOOHOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Brilliant!

LPXO

[PRB]

Well, I tried to resist, but failed... I bought the T-38 today. Here's some screen shots of my first flight. The landing seemed to be going quite well right up until the very last moment, when it became clear I had slowed down too much. I got the rumbling noise that told me so. That and the fact that I was dropping out of the sky like one of the Road Runner's famous anvils... I didn't bend it though (much) ...

About the rudder. I haven't flown very many real planes in real life, but of the couple that I have, I notice that when you step on the rudder, they don't yaw around sluggishly and drunkenly like 99% of FS planes do, they roll, and with authority. Kind of like this T-38 does! Very cool!

Well done MILVIZ Team!

:ernae:

[LonelyplanetXO]

Thanks guys, this is spectacular.
Just to confirm what Jimjam reported previously, the model does seem to have issues with third party Wx apps. Tried flying using real weather via Activesky, 19 knots @ 260 and it rolled like a bastard - not possible to keep it even near on track and basically impossible to land. Then reloaded the flight with default FSX Rwx. That showed 16 knots at 260, a/c was fairly stable, no significant roll. The issue may be with the weather app rather than the aircraft, but then it doesnt occur with other aircraft.
One other tiny bug I noticed was the device below the ball (sorry, dunno what its called - the sliding thingy) slides out of the gauge and clear across the VC at times. Very minor, I know.

Lovin this aircraft... now if only I can get it down without nearly breaking the undercarriage!

LPXO

[bstolle]

... now if only I can get it down without nearly breaking the undercarriage


If you fly the approach a bit faster, between 0.4 and 0.5 units AoA you have much more time and energy for a nice flare ;)

[fliger747]

I can see from Pauls over the threshold screenie that he is used to USN aircraft, surprised this one is even flying at that attitude! She's a flat flier, has something to do with the low critical AOA of the grand Piano (sized and shaped) wings. Think streamlined brick.....

After flying this I understand my airforce compatriots a bit more.

T

[PRB]

I can see from Pauls over the threshold screenie that he is used to USN aircraft, surprised this one is even flying at that attitude! She's a flat flier, has something to do with the low critical AOA of the grand Piano (sized and shaped) wings. Think streamlined brick.....

After flying this I understand my airforce compatriots a bit more.

T

Now that I think about it, that's exactly what I was doing! I was trying to land it navy style, without flaring! I think it would have worked out ok if I had kept the speed up. Oh, and in that last shot, to say that it was "flying" at that attitude would be too kind. I think it just didn't have far to fall at that point... :icon_lol:

[jmig]

Paul, your aircraft attitude is way to high in your last (just before touchdown) in shot. The actual attitude will look more like the first photo.

One thing you can not do with the T-38 is come in hot and high then flare to break your decent rate and speed. You have no wings! :icon_lol: Well, I know there are things that look like wings on the airplane. They were put there as nav light brackets and flap hangers.

The T-38 wings generate lift from the AOA. Unlike a GA airplane with it thick wings designed to naturally provide lift, the T-38 gets its lift from its angle into the air and the thrust to push it through the air. The range of acceptable AOA is narrow.

You will find that the T-38 will be easier to land with half flaps (especially on straight in approaches) rather than full flaps. This is because you will have to make a flatter and slightly faster approach. You have more AOA cushion at the faster speed.

As you come in, start pulling power over the over run so your throttles are fully closed as you cross the threshold. If you are in the green donut, hold that. As you slow the AOA will get higher into the slightly low. Your speed will also bleed and the aircraft will settle onto the runway. In a good landing, you will touchdown with no more than a 300-500 fpm decent rate.

I did a series of shots of an overhead approach for the Quick Start guide. They might help you see the picture, Also, Ken Stallings did some shots of a straight in approach for the POH. There is an excellent write up on landing techniques in the POH. Anyone who wants to really learn to fly the T-38 the way we did it in the USAF should study those two publications.

[mohawk3]

Maybe a bit late, but I want to congratulate the Milviz team for this great aircraft!Both models ( visual & FM) are convincing - looking good and realistic.
BTW, I just discovered today that the AOA vane is animated!!
Now some wishes...
1. The instrument glass is barely visible.Can it be made like in the CH bf-108 ( for example), I mean more reflective ?
2. Flying at night with helmet visors on is odd..( maybe diffrent helmets that can be selected from the load manager?)
3. Some rain/fog/frost effects would be icredible great!!( please, please do it)
4. I know that taxi/ground roll is pretty unrealistic in FSX.In real T-38 steering is engaged only when the stick button is held pressed and a/c in on the gnd, but here there is no wheel steering command in FSX ( as far as I know) and that makes you to have steering even at 130KT ( given that at 135 you rotate). Can you made some way that steering could be engaged/disengaged, or automatically disengaged at some speed?
I said 'wishes', not criticism, so take it as it is,
Thank you

[n4gix]

BTW, I just discovered today that the AOA vane is animated!!
Now some wishes...
1. The instrument glass is barely visible.Can it be made like in the CH bf-108 ( for example), I mean more reflective ?
2. Flying at night with helmet visors on is odd..( maybe diffrent helmets that can be selected from the load manager?)
3. Some rain/fog/frost effects would be icredible great!!( please, please do it)
4. I know that taxi/ground roll is pretty unrealistic in FSX.In real T-38 steering is engaged only when the stick button is held pressed and a/c in on the gnd, but here there is no wheel steering command in FSX ( as far as I know) and that makes you to have steering even at 130KT ( given that at 135 you rotate). Can you made some way that steering could be engaged/disengaged, or automatically disengaged at some speed?
I said 'wishes', not criticism, so take it as it is,
Thank you

Yes, the AoA vane is animated using the computed AoA for the gauge.

1. Considered and rejected. Too many issues with the reflective glass to mention them all, but given the lighting system I created for this cockpit, reflective glass turns opaque whenever the lights are on. That would make it rather difficult to use at night, eh?

2. Good suggestion! I've added it to my update bucket list.

3. Considered and rejected. Inclusion of those features bring the framerate to a crawl. The minimum acceptable target for this release was 25-29 fps on a mid-range system. When developing the final specifications, performance costs of features are weighed carefully.

4. Nosewheel steering is already inhibited whenever main gear break ground. I'll investigate whether it would be practical to condition the steering inhibit based on ground speed.

[ErnstF]

Congratulations MILVIZ, fantastic model!! I`m having great fun :applause: 429774297942980429824298442986

[fliger747]

Paul:

I first tried flying this Navy style as well, ah, you know the results....

What seems to work, at least for me is to pretty much lock the stick at about 5 5-1/2 AOA units and control the glide path with the throttle. You want to be on a proper glide angle such as to need around 92% RPM. What you do not want to do is be steep and end up not spooled. You may want to leave the thrust on all of the way to the deck as the energy bleeds rapidly in any "flare" at idle.

Quite a satisfying flier once you get the "light bulb to come on".

Cheers: Tom

[Roadburner440]

Glad to see everyone is having fun, and good screenshots! I had lots of problems with slowing down to much during testing too. I am so used to flying propeller birds, or tube liners that landing at the higher airspeeds was pretty foreign to me. So I crashed quite a number of T-38's all through testing. :icon_lol: As a side note, if you guys have not been on our forums. If you wish to join the T-38 support forum e-mail me at Roadburner440@milviz.com . We have seen quite a bit of sales on the T-38, but only 30 people join the support forum. Maybe that is a good thing, but I joined over at VRS when I bought the Superbug just in case I ever needed it. Maybe it is a good thing though that my box has not been flooded with mails. So far we are seeing lots of positive feedback. Also we are about to release the AI T-38, and military base modifications as freeware. So anyone who wants to download and check out the T-38's can do so.

[PRB]

Ok I think I'm getting the hang of this beastie. I'm still not getting the speed/AOA correct on approach. Here I am landing at Fresno. In the first pic I'm going slower than the book said I'm supposed to be at this point, but still my AOA says “fast”. I'm still coming too steep too, looks like. By the time I got to the runway it was looking a bit better, and the attitude at touch down looks more like the book says.

[n4gix]

Ok I think I'm getting the hang of this beastie. I'm still not getting the speed/AOA correct on approach. Here I am landing at Fresno. In the first pic I'm going slower than the book said I'm supposed to be at this point, but still my AOA says “fast”. I'm still coming too steep too, looks like. By the time I got to the runway it was looking a bit better, and the attitude at touch down looks more like the book says.

Actually, in your first picture you are underspeed and under AoA. While it's called the "Fast" indicator, what it's really telling you is that your AoA is too shallow.

Note that in the second picture your AoA is right on the sweet-spot of 0.55 to 0.65 units AoA, and you have the green doughnut. However, you're well below the glideslope and in a rather dangerous position.

The most important thing to remember: use power to control your AoA, use pitch to control your speed.

Read the section of the manual that covers the Air Force's recommended procedure for landing.

[keatles]

Here is a screenshot of my first T-38A repaint. Difficult to know which textures are mapped to which parts of the airplane, but getting there slowly.

Wonderful model with a really good (if a little confusing) paint kit.

http://i962.photobucket.com/albums/ae110/keatles/Flight Sim repaints/Orca01-1.jpg

[skyhawka4m]

Looks great but you might wanna darken the lighter gray just a little bit, looks almost white here.

[bstolle]

Ok I think I'm getting the hang of this beastie. I'm still not getting the speed/AOA correct on approach. Here I am landing at Fresno. In the first pic I'm going slower than the book said I'm supposed to be at this point, but still my AOA says “fast”. I'm still coming too steep too, looks like. By the time I got to the runway it was looking a bit better, and the attitude at touch down looks more like the book says.



The problem is you energy state.
In the first pic you are slightly low according to the papi (3 red) and slightly fast (increase AoA up chevron).
In the second pic you are even lower (4 red) AND the speed decreases (green doughnut) further.
That means that your power setting is too low as you are getting low and slow which is a definite no-no in the T-38 (and also in heavies like the 767) and you are already constantly loosing the kinetic energy needed for a flare.
If you keep the speed/AoA from the first pic OR from the second pic all the way from e.g. 500ft to the threshold and you don't drop below your chosen glideslope you will arrive at the threshold with a higher energy state and hence she will not loose the speed as fast after the thrust reduction ;)

[Bone]

Here is a screenshot of my first T-38A repaint. Difficult to know which textures are mapped to which parts of the airplane, but getting there slowly.

Wonderful model with a really good (if a little confusing) paint kit.

http://i962.photobucket.com/albums/ae110/keatles/Flight Sim repaints/Orca01-1.jpg

Feel free to put up a few more shots.

[PRB]

The problem is you energy state.
In the first pic you are slightly low according to the papi (3 red) and slightly fast (increase AoA up chevron).
In the second pic you are even lower (4 red) AND the speed decreases (green doughnut) further.
That means that your power setting is too low as you are getting low and slow which is a definite no-no in the T-38 (and also in heavies like the 767) and you are already constantly loosing the kinetic energy needed for a flare.
If you keep the speed/AoA from the first pic OR from the second pic all the way from e.g. 500ft to the threshold and you don't drop below your chosen glideslope you will arrive at the threshold with a higher energy state and hence she will not loose the speed as fast after the thrust reduction ;)

This brings up a good point. If the T-38 is meant to be landed at a 2.5 degree glide slope, and the PAPI lights are "tuned" to a steeper slope, would not a correct approach angle (for the T-38) result in more red lights on the PAPI indicator? When I compare my screen shots to the ones in the manual that are showing me correct "site picture" on approach, mine still looks a bit steep, even with all the red lights showing on the PAPI.

More practice... I was still starting to shake and rumble at the point of touchdown, confirming your observation that I am loosing speed and energy during the approach. Will check approach speeds at various weights with the charts in the book.

Good stuff!

[bstolle]

This brings up a good point. If the T-38 is meant to be landed at a 2.5 degree glide slope, and the PAPI lights are "tuned" to a steeper slope, would not a correct approach angle (for the T-38) result in more red lights on the PAPI indicator?

Correct! PAPI/VASI G/S is normally 3deg. So you would need to go from let's say 3 white far out to 2 white just before the threshold.

[warchild]

unless i'm flying tubes, i personally never pay attention to the papi/vasi/whatever. I dont have the T-38 ( yet ) but The P-61's operator manual calls for two different landing configurations ( power on and off ) and two seperate glide paths ( high with flaps and power/ low with no flaps and no power ). Seems to me that as long as your doing it by the real book, your doing fine.

[mohawk3]

Yes, the AoA vane is animated using the computed AoA for the gauge.

1. Considered and rejected. Too many issues with the reflective glass to mention them all, but given the lighting system I created for this cockpit, reflective glass turns opaque whenever the lights are on. That would make it rather difficult to use at night, eh?

2. Good suggestion! I've added it to my update bucket list.

3. Considered and rejected. Inclusion of those features bring the framerate to a crawl. The minimum acceptable target for this release was 25-29 fps on a mid-range system. When developing the final specifications, performance costs of features are weighed carefully.

4. Nosewheel steering is already inhibited whenever main gear break ground. I'll investigate whether it would be practical to condition the steering inhibit based on ground speed.
Thank you!:salute:

[bstolle]

unless i'm flying tubes, i personally never pay attention to the papi/vasi/whatever

Generally it's a good habit trying to fly a 2.5-3.5deg glideslope.
If you constantly aim for that you learn to accurately visualize an approximate 3deg glidepath from any position around the airfield and you immediately know if you are too high or too low from any point in the pattern

[Skyhawk18]

Here is a screenshot of my first T-38A repaint. Difficult to know which textures are mapped to which parts of the airplane, but getting there slowly.

Wonderful model with a really good (if a little confusing) paint kit.

http://i962.photobucket.com/albums/ae110/keatles/Flight%20Sim%20repaints/Orca01-1.jpg


Excellent work keatles!
The paintkit is rather complex. I did a layer clean up to the original kit, but it still remains complex.

The «white» color can easily be changed by adding a light grey tint to the base color layer of each template..

[LUCE1]

It seems that this model cannot be used on a multiplayer session.
Model simply does not work, flooding FSX mp server.
Other players just see it steady.
Someone has suggestion or does not has experienced such flaw ?

[fliger747]

Paul:

Glad you are taking the time to master this plane, definitly a worthwhile accomplishment. Rather amazing how much the speed varies with the fuel load, for such a small aircraft. Lighter weights are easier as at the heavy weights it is easy to get behind the power curve.

Certainly an aircraft that require much more precision and planning much further ahead than any WWII fighter or medium bomber type, just the nature of jets, fly the wing. Bernt's advice to learn what is standard first is very good and allows you to immediatly spot what's not.

This one teaches about weight, speeds and envelopes.

Cheers: T

[krazycolin]

It seems that this model cannot be used on a multiplayer session.
Model simply does not work, flooding FSX mp server.
Other players just see it steady.
Someone has suggestion or does not has experienced such flaw ?

All support questions are only answered in our forums. Please take it there and have your purchase info handy.

Thanks.

[warchild]

Ummmmm.. Colin or Steve?? Umm hate to sound dense as a brick, but, went to your forum and cant find the register button so I can sign up.. What am I missing???
Pam

[krazycolin]

See here:


http://www.milviz.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=1085

[warchild]

Thanks Colin. Much appreciated.. email is sent..
Pam

[doublecool]

Sweet :applause::applause::applause:

431824318343184

:kilroy:

[LUCE1]

All support questions are only answered in our forums. Please take it there and have your purchase info handy.
Thanks.
<meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
Mine is not a support request,I have not bought the model yet, I'm just considering whether to purchase it. What I wonder is whether the Milviz claims that the T-38 is usable and works flawlessly in multiplayer or not in both multiplayer environments that FSX permits: GameSpy and LAN.
Someone of us have bought it and they report that the model does not work in multiplayer, players hang, most of the animations do not works, FSX server hangs, etc.. simpy two T-38 in the same session do not work at all, i just wanted to get confirmation of this.
I think the Milviz can answer a question like that even outside their own forums.
cheers

[krazycolin]

We are looking into those issues as we speak. I have asked that we make sure that MP works properly. If not now, then in the SP.

[PRB]

Paul:

Glad you are taking the time to master this plane, definitly a worthwhile accomplishment. Rather amazing how much the speed varies with the fuel load, for such a small aircraft. Lighter weights are easier as at the heavy weights it is easy to get behind the power curve.

Certainly an aircraft that require much more precision and planning much further ahead than any WWII fighter or medium bomber type, just the nature of jets, fly the wing. Bernt's advice to learn what is standard first is very good and allows you to immediatly spot what's not.

This one teaches about weight, speeds and envelopes.

Cheers: T

This is a fun airplane. Quite challenging to land well!

Book says approach speed = 155 knots + 1 knot for every 100 lbs over 1000 lbs of fuel. So, I was at 50% fuel, which was 1900 lbs = 9 knots + 155 = 164. Alternatively, I suppose one could just drop the gear and flaps (60%) and find the speed at whch the AOA needle is where it's supposed to be. If you don't like no arithmetic, that is...

In this sequence of pics, I seem to be doing fine at around 170 knots. I'm still loosing too much speed in the final seconds, but I'm getting better. I just need to be closer to the ground before I close the throttle to idle... :icon_lol: This plane is so very unforgiving of being off the glide slope. You just can't salvage an ok landing after a crappy approach like I can in my P-38!

The VC in this plane is beautiful, by the way!

[PRB]

... You have no wings! :icon_lol: Well, I know there are things that look like wings on the airplane. They were put there as nav light brackets and flap hangers...

:icon_lol: :icon_lol: :icon_lol:

[jmig]

Paul your issue is not losing speed in the final seconds, it is NOT losing speed. Look at picture #3. You are still at 170Kts, ten feet off the ground and stalling her to get down.

Here is how I was taught to land. Padre Bill quoted you from the more recent version of the bible. Here is the OLD testament version that was taught when I flew. It is also how we landed the F-4.

You calculate landing and approach speeds as a cross check. However, if you set the proper AOA with pitch (control stick) and get the donut, you will be on the correct speed.

Aim just short of the runway's edge and use the throttles to get there. Speed (AOA ) is done with the pitch and the glide slope is set with the throttles. If you see yourself getting low (too many red) add power. If you are high (too many white) reduce power. This way, you have only one control to worry about, the throttles.

Your goal is to land in the first 1000 feet of runway. So as you reach the overrun, raise you aim point about 200-300 feet down the runway and slowly pull power, hold your attitude or verrrryyyy slight pull back on the stick a smidgen .

The jet's nose will naturally pitch up and flatten out the approach, lose speed and settle on the runway. If you get the red chevron let the stick go forward to green. Don't worry about landing long. Once you get the picture you will start landing within the 1000 feet.

If you haven't already done so, watch the video I made on landing. Look at the gauges to see when I start reducing power and what AOA I am holding. You will see the jet's approach flatten out at the end.

If it makes you feel any better, I had hell landing this thing at first. I kept dropping too fast in the final turn and had to add power and go around.

[glennc]

Didn't Chuck Yeager say something about being able to fly a barn door if it had enough power on it? I wonder if this is the barn door he had in mind? :icon_lol: :salute:

Glenn

[skyblazer3]

Uh Oh! This plane does not work in multiplayer -- at least, it does not work well.

When I load into a multiplayer session with the T-38 that uses FSX's radios to communicate, it causes massive communication problems. Messages become delayed, garbled, and unreadable. This is a problem that affects everyone in the session. The moment I leave the session all returns to normal, and when I load back in with this aircraft, everyone in the session is affected. This does not occur with any other aircraft that I fly. Switching to another aircraft solves the problem..... but I want to fly the T-38!

This is a serious problem in multiplayer servers that focus on ATC, with multiple controllers and dozens of pilots using a variety of frequencies -- things can get chaotic if all comms are lost. The problems begin as soon as the T-38 is spawned, and it does not matter what frequency the aircraft is on, or if the battery switch is on or off. The problem goes away as soon as the aircraft leaves the session. Unfortunately, this has resulted in multiplayer communities recommending that their members not buy the T-38, and forcing them to kick players from their sessions who fly the T-38.

I bought the T-38 to fly online in Air Traffic Control sessions.... so I am not very happy at the moment (although I think all other aspects of the aircraft are wonderful). What could possibly cause this? I tried taking the 2D radio/GPS panel out of the mix, but the problem persisted. Could it have to do with things that are coded outside of FSX? A2A does a lot with outside coding, but their products are fine.... perhaps it is in the way things are coded.

I have not yet flown the T-38 in a closed session with other T-38 drivers (none of my friends have bought it yet)... but I am worried there may be problems there too. My friends do not want to buy it until they know it can be flown in multiplayer.

What was the level of multiplayer testing done in the development/beta testing? If any of the developers want to look more into the possible multiplayer problems, I would be happy to lend a hand... feel free to send me a PM and we can set up a session and go do some testing/flying.

Still, this is a great aircraft, and I recommend it to others.... just hoping we can fly it online someday soon.

Cheers,

Chris

**** If it helps -- the RealAir Duke and the Captain Sim C-130 do the exact same thing to FSX comms..... I don't own those aircraft, but our multiplayer community has them documented as causing the exact same issue.

[n4gix]

Uh Oh! This plane does not work in multiplayer -- at least, it does not work well.

The problem has been identified and will be fixed in the forthcoming update package.

Apologies for the inconvenience, and thank you for your patience.

[skyblazer3]

Can you tell us more about the problem(s)? We are dieing to know, because this has ruined several of our large multiplayer events. (not just the T-38, but other aircraft that do the same thing).

If you guys know what causes this, please let us know and maybe we can urge other companies to fix the problem in their own aircraft. It may also help other developers from making the same mistakes on future projects.

I think multiplayer is a whole different animal in FSX, and there is a lot that can go wrong. I am glad you guys are on top of it.

Cheers,

Chris

[krazycolin]

The problem is that some elements of the product (i.e. smoke) are being called many times, over and over. Seeing as this is one of the things that MP transmits from one user to the others, it's flooding the server and borking out. For the most, these are easy fixes. We just didn't plan for them and that is our bad. It will not happen again.

We are going to fix this for the SP that will be released in the next little bit along with a bunch of other stuff...

I think you will all be pleased.

[skyblazer3]

Thanks Colin,

You guys are brilliant. That makes a lot of sense. I know that gliders do the same thing, because they spawn tow-planes that never go away, and the session gets filled with tow-planes and everyone lags out.

I am really impressed with how brilliant your team is, and how good the customer support is. It is so good.... I am going to go register on your support forums.

Thanks again,

Chris

[krazycolin]

LOL. Thanks. I do appreciate that.

[ColoKent]

...I get home in two days and can buy this baby!

Kent

[ZsoltB]

Here is a screenshot of my first T-38A repaint. Difficult to know which textures are mapped to which parts of the airplane, but getting there slowly.

Wonderful model with a really good (if a little confusing) paint kit.

http://i962.photobucket.com/albums/ae110/keatles/Flight Sim repaints/Orca01-1.jpg

Hi,

When will it be available?

Thank you!
Regards,
Zsolt

[jmig]

Hi,

When will it be available?

Thank you!
Regards,
Zsolt

It is already out. Here is the link,

http://www.milviz.com/Northrop/T-38_Paintkit.zip

[ZsoltB]

It is already out. Here is the link,

http://www.milviz.com/Northrop/T-38_Paintkit.zip

I asked to repaint...

[LUCE1]

The problem is that some elements of the product (i.e. smoke) are being called many times, over and over. Seeing as this is one of the things that MP transmits from one user to the others, it's flooding the server and borking out. For the most, these are easy fixes. We just didn't plan for them and that is our bad. It will not happen again.
We are going to fix this for the SP that will be released in the next little bit along with a bunch of other stuff...
I think you will all be pleased.
my two cents:
The source of the problem lies in the architecture of the DirectX communication layer and the asynchronous protocol between SimConnect server and clients.
Communications between client and server are asyncronous, this means that when the client makes a request to the server does not polls to wait for the answer but intercepts it when and if it arrives.
This protocol is very efficient but has a serious drawback, the "dead lock" that comes when the server is flooded and does not have not enough bandwidth to answer to clients. If server is "dead locked" it hangs and players begin to be kicked out as the timeout expires.
Several situations can trigger the "dead lock":
- slow connections with too high ping times, too narrow bandwidth, too many players, etc. each players needs to have at least 25 kbit of bandwidth, european domestic lines with outgoing 256 kbit bandwidth can support not more than 10 players.
- several connections/disconnections at the same time can trigger the dead lock as well, to solve this one need a careful FSX server configuration with a dedicated machine, one player acting as player and server at the same time into a LAN (both physical or virtual) make the "dead lock" most likely.
- bad programming techniques that do not take in account above issues, both .mdl embedded code, c/c++ dll's and xml routines are called at least 18 times per second by the FSX engine, one must be carefull to call "server propagated" events only when necessary. One example is the Capt Sim C130, exterior .mdl calls COM_RADIO_SET event so many times that floods the server in few seconds making himself unusable on multiplayer, it seems that Milviz programmers did the same mistake, hopefully they will fix it soon.
- At SIM SKUNK WORK we have addressed this problem since the analysis phase of the project because the multiplayer was one of requirements.
Hope this helps all developer, at SIM SKUNK WORK we are all "Open Source and open mind" oriented, no secrets, just contribute to give to simmer community the best sim software we can.
cheers
/Mario

[krazycolin]

Quite honestly, MP was never one of our selling points though, now, I see that it certainly makes for a fun time.

It shall be fixed and all further Milviz planes will allow for MP (not necessarily shared cockpit though).

[krazycolin]

It is already out. Here is the link,

http://www.milviz.com/Northrop/T-38_Paintkit.zip

He meant the repaint itself... not the paint kit.

[ZsoltB]

He meant the repaint itself... not the paint kit.

Thank you!

[Bone]

I know the MP issue is a big "hot" button for many, and I can see from the text traffic on the Milviz Beta Testers Forum that it's being rectified at this moment. However, I would like to throw out some thoughts on this, if I may.

If the MP sites are recomending people not buy the T-38 simply because it's not MP worthy at this time, then I think that's unfair. The people who were involved in building and testing this model were arseholes-and-elbows trying to make this model as real as practicallity would allow. There was enough "is it ready yet" as it was, and the MP issue just would have delayed it even more, had we known about it. In the "current Milviz T-38 pics" thread, I believe it was stated that we had not tested it in MP. We all have other full time jobs, and quite frankly, probably spent more time testing this model than common sense would allow.

The majority of us Milviz Beta testers have real world flying jobs. I think it's safe to say we are high time jet pilots, and we recomend this model. The dudes over at the MP sites that are telling people to not buy it...well, go ask them if they fly jets four days a week all day long, or if they just dream about it. Then ask yourself if you want to take advice on what to fly from people who fly jets four days a week all day long, or from people who just dream about it.

I certainly don't mean to outright insult anyone, but alot of work went into this model over a long period of time. It's an awesome flyer.


EDIT/DISCLAIMER: These are my personal thoughts on the matter.

[ZsoltB]

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/1811/48845498.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/171/48845498.jpg/)

[n4gix]

Lovely repaint! :applause:

[ZsoltB]

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/2518/53354230.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/696/53354230.jpg/)

[Bone]

Very nice, Zsolt!

[JAllen]

I have more practice time in the T38A than any other plane in my hangar, still not proficient. But honestly, I haven't flown the pattern with other aircraft at all the way I do now. So I am learning from "up to ground" all over again.

Side benefit, flew P-51D "Millie P" to the sweetest landing ever! Remarkable in that I have always bounced and bounced and bounced!! The Cessna 310 was so greased I didn't know it was down.

If I fly the pattern by seat of the pants I do OK, not perfect, but, by the numbers is very challenging to say the least. Just lovin' it all.

Zsolt, those paints are way nice!

Jim

[mohawk3]

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/2518/53354230.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/696/53354230.jpg/)

Beautiful scheme! Wich airbase is that, please?

[ZsoltB]

The base: MAIW Whiteman AFB V3
http://www.interkultur.de/gossmann/fsx/maiw.php

[mohawk3]

Thank you, Zsoltquack

[LonelyplanetXO]

heh heh, I'm finally getting this. Circuit bashing last night (did you know she does about 12 circuits to a tank?), first landing - Bang, wayyy too hard, all the others good, better, greased... Still not technically correct - a bit fast so shallow aoa but improving. A bit more practice and I'll be proficient :) great fun model...thanks guys.

LPXO

[Skyhawk18]

Glad to see that some of you are doing great repaint jobs.
I have a few liveries in progress, and the Beale Bandit needs some minor adjustments.

43508 43509 43510 43511 43512

[LUCE1]

... The majority of us Milviz Beta testers have real world flying jobs. I think it's safe to say we are high time jet pilots, and we recomend this model. The dudes over at the MP sites that are telling people to not buy it...well, go ask them if they fly jets four days a week all day long, or if they just dream about it. Then ask yourself if you want to take advice on what to fly from people who fly jets four days a week all day long, or from people who just dream about it.
...

Hi Bone,
I would be more cautious with certain statements, you are not the only <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">real rider who enjoys flight simulators .. a dear friend of mine, for example, even today, after having flown nearly 4000 hours of flight with a lot of military jets, including the F-104, enjoy with FSX... and he could certainly answer that it is not necessary to be pilots to see if the model works or not in multiplayer, moreover he could say that the fact that beta testers were real pilots is an aggravating factor rather than an excuse.
The point is not whether Milviz T-38 is a good model or not, it surely is, the point is that it is not complete without the multiplayer and that it was not declared before to be released to public, someone may have been induced to buy the model to fly it in multiplayer and had a nasty surprise.
Hopefully this unuseless discussion will end soon when Milviz certainly make his beautiful model working in multiplayer.
cheers
/Mario

[Skyhawk_310R]

We are definately working on that, Mario.

I guess we would just like to ask that people consider that the jet was also never advertised for multi-player. But, we are certainly working to make it work in MP based on the feedback we are getting. It seems we are by no means alone in terms of trying to overcome technical limits in the way MP in FSX is set up. That is another layer of hurdles we must overcome.

For those who do not play MP, it also must be fairly considered what their desires are. Do they wish to wait another month for release just so we can get MP working when they have no desire to fly it in MP? Anyway, soon as we get the T-38A working in MP (and we will) it will then become a moot point, because as Colin already said, our philosophy will now be to ensure our aircraft function properly in MP.

[Bone]

Hi Bone,
I would be more cautious with certain statements, you are not the only real rider who enjoys flight simulators .. a dear friend of mine, for example, even today, after having flown nearly 4000 hours of flight with a lot of military jets, including the F-104, enjoy with FSX... and he could certainly answer that it is not necessary to be pilots to see if the model works or not in multiplayer, moreover he could say that the fact that beta testers were real pilots is an aggravating factor rather than an excuse.
The point is not whether Milviz T-38 is a good model or not, it surely is, the point is that it is not complete without the multiplayer and that it was not declared before to be released to public, someone may have been induced to buy the model to fly it in multiplayer and had a nasty surprise.
Hopefully this unuseless discussion will end soon when Milviz certainly make his beautiful model working in multiplayer.
cheers
/Mario


Luce1, thanks for the advice on being more cautious, but I don't really think I said anything which would require the advice to be cautious. My statement was/is directed at those who are currently giving widespread advice not to buy the model, simply because there is a temporary MP issue. If they can give advice like that, then I can certainly state my opinion on the matter. I haven't slandered anyone, nor have I caused any damage to their business, nor have I made it personal by directing my statement at a single person by name. Milviz is working the problem out. I passed along your thoughts to the Beta Test forum like you asked. Colin and team have brought some coders in from another project to help work it out. He is very concerned about it, and he has put in place a procedure to make sure all future models work in MP.

As far as real world pilots being an aggravation to the Beta testing process, I think that's a ridiculous thing to say, especially since Simskunkworks has validated the F-104 project with the fact that it's been tested by a real world zipper pilot.

[LUCE1]

We are definately working on that, Mario.

I guess we would just like to ask that people consider that the jet was also never advertised for multi-player. But, we are certainly working to make it work in MP based on the feedback we are getting. It seems we are by no means alone in terms of trying to overcome technical limits in the way MP in FSX is set up. That is another layer of hurdles we must overcome.
For those who do not play MP, it also must be fairly considered what their desires are. Do they wish to wait another month for release just so we can get MP working when they have no desire to fly it in MP? Anyway, soon as we get the T-38A working in MP (and we will) it will then become a moot point, because as Colin already said, our philosophy will now be to ensure our aircraft function properly in MP.
that is definitely the right way, the multiplayer raises the level of realism and enjoyment of many steps without any chance of getting bored.
good work :-)
/mario

[LUCE1]

..
As far as real world pilots being an aggravation to the Beta testing process, I think that's a ridiculous thing to say, especially since Simskunkworks has validated the F-104 project with the fact that it's been tested by a real world zipper pilot.
may be my bad english made me misunderstood, what i meant is that real-pilots beta-testers should have discovered far before than others the multiplayer problems.
cheers
/mario

[Bone]

may be my bad english made me misunderstood, what i meant is that real-pilots beta-testers should have discovered far before than others the multiplayer problems.
cheers
/mario

Cheers. :)

[Roger]

Seems like the Milviz team have stated that they're looking for a fix so I guess that's an end to that debate. I've never wanted to fly multi-player so it's not an issue for me.
The aircraft looks great but I don't do much kerosene burning so for now I'll just watch:engel016:

[Meshman]

I knew I had seen something, somewhere about MP performance and the noggin finally came through! Whether this applies or not, I cannot say. Maybe Fr. Bill has seen this posting over at the Lockheed forums?

http://www.prepar3d.com/forum-5/?mingleforumaction=viewtopic&t=324

I hope it's readable without sign up, but sign up is simple enough.

[bstolle]

the multiplayer raises the level of realism and enjoyment of many steps without any chance of getting bored.

real-pilots beta-testers should have discovered far before than others the multiplayer problems.


Even with 14000+ hrs of RL flying I never used multiplayer.
I don't know why FSX should be more realistic with MP and despite flying around alone I never got bored in any sim.
Guess I'm happy when at least in FSX there's no one around I need to talk to or to watch out for.

[JAllen]

Not even a tiny interest in MP. Love the jet beyond reason.

Jim

[tpet]

Do not care if you are a real world pilot. Do not care if you want to fly in multiplayer. Just know that my first question about any new release is going to be: Does it work in multiplayer? Thank you milviz for your time and efforts to solve this.

[skyblazer3]

I knew I had seen something, somewhere about MP performance and the noggin finally came through! Whether this applies or not, I cannot say. Maybe Fr. Bill has seen this posting over at the Lockheed forums?

http://www.prepar3d.com/forum-5/?mingleforumaction=viewtopic&t=324

I hope it's readable without sign up, but sign up is simple enough.

That is a very cool website... very nice. Thank you for posting.

@Milviz, Thank you guys again for making a commitment to resolve this -- it is much appreciated.

[Ty89m]

On my search for helpful documents regarding the T-38, I stumbled upon this site
T38driver dot com. Seems a lot of the info is for the C model, but seems most can be applied to the A model we have. Some great info if anyone's interested!

Ty

[res non verba]

here a TOLD calculator in excel from baseops:

http://www.baseops.net/gouge2/TOLD_Calculator_(nonPMP)_ver_3.0_200803.xls

:ernae:

[PRB]

Paul your issue is not losing speed in the final seconds, it is NOT losing speed. Look at picture #3. You are still at 170Kts, ten feet off the ground and stalling her to get down.

Here is how I was taught to land. Padre Bill quoted you from the more recent version of the bible. Here is the OLD testament version that was taught when I flew. It is also how we landed the F-4.

You calculate landing and approach speeds as a cross check. However, if you set the proper AOA with pitch (control stick) and get the donut, you will be on the correct speed.

Aim just short of the runway's edge and use the throttles to get there. Speed (AOA ) is done with the pitch and the glide slope is set with the throttles. If you see yourself getting low (too many red) add power. If you are high (too many white) reduce power. This way, you have only one control to worry about, the throttles.

Your goal is to land in the first 1000 feet of runway. So as you reach the overrun, raise you aim point about 200-300 feet down the runway and slowly pull power, hold your attitude or verrrryyyy slight pull back on the stick a smidgen .

The jet's nose will naturally pitch up and flatten out the approach, lose speed and settle on the runway. If you get the red chevron let the stick go forward to green. Don't worry about landing long. Once you get the picture you will start landing within the 1000 feet.

If you haven't already done so, watch the video I made on landing. Look at the gauges to see when I start reducing power and what AOA I am holding. You will see the jet's approach flatten out at the end.

If it makes you feel any better, I had hell landing this thing at first. I kept dropping too fast in the final turn and had to add power and go around.
This I don't quite understand. As I'm coming in on a long straight in approach, with AOA, glide slope, and air speed nailed, as I cross the runway threshold, I have to do something different, unless I want to land like a NAVY plane, which, I must admit, seems to be hard-wired into my brain... :icon_lol: When I reduce power, over the numbers, the ship slows, which results in an increase in (-)vertical velocity, which means I have to pull the nose up to hope to avoid slamming into the runway. But that also increases my AOA, and we don't have much margin there with this ship, so I immedieately get the "shaky & rumbly" business, telling me I'm about to stall the little wingless beastie... So how do you land? If you're not ON SPEED, you're about to stall, so how do you transition from approach to flare and touchdown?

BTW, where is this landing video? I canna find it...

[n4gix]

The point is not whether Milviz T-38 is a good model or not, it surely is, the point is that it is not complete without the multiplayer and that it was not declared before to be released to public, someone may have been induced to buy the model to fly it in multiplayer and had a nasty surprise.
/Mario
I just spent most of yesterday and today working on the T-38A's performance in MultiPlayer. The only thing I still have to work on is getting the Afterburner system to behave itself.

Here is a log of my eighteen minute session on FS-MP's Server. Note the first line boxed in orange. I tested every switch and knob to make certain everything was still working, and that nothing "flooded the server..."

I'm very, very pleased with the result. Note that the performance is actually just a little bit better than the default 737-800... :icon_lol:

[fliger747]

Paul:

The amount of flare needed is small, For me not reducing the power till the wheels are almost on the runway seems to help, the combination of power reduction and increased AOA tends to make for a firm impact at best and an airplane shaped hole at worst. An early flair also seems to exacerbate the energy loss.

Good Luck! T

[muletrain]

It is possible to not flare and retard power immediately on touchdown. This is not stellar technique but it helps one learn where the ground is. Once comfortable with that you can begin to work on that slight flare and simultaneous power reduction.

[PRB]

I'm not sure my problem is learning exactly when to begin the flare, although it may in fact be. It just seems to me that there is no way, in this plane, to touch the runway at 160 knots or less without doing so at an excessivively high AOA.

[PRB]

Paul:

The amount of flare needed is small, For me not reducing the power till the wheels are almost on the runway seems to help, the combination of power reduction and increased AOA tends to make for a firm impact at best and an airplane shaped hole at worst. An early flair also seems to exacerbate the energy loss.

Good Luck! T

Yep, this about sums up my experience, more or less, up to now... :icon_lol: Still, if you want to kiss the runway at anything close to the correct AOA, you can't do it at anything less than the correct approach speed, in most cases, around 170 knots. I can land fine at 150 knots (sort of) but I touch the runway with the mains and the nose way up in the air...

[krazycolin]

I just spent most of yesterday and today working on the T-38A's performance in MultiPlayer. The only thing I still have to work on is getting the Afterburner system to behave itself.

Here is a log of my eighteen minute session on FS-MP's Server. Note the first line boxed in orange. I tested every switch and knob to make certain everything was still working, and that nothing "flooded the server..."

I'm very, very pleased with the result. Note that the performance is actually just a little bit better than the default 737-800... :icon_lol:

I had a feeling that no one cared about MP....

I am, of course, kidding....

[LonelyplanetXO]

well, for me a few hours of circuit bashing and reading the advice from jmig and others, I have this baby nailed - well, sort of. By that I mean I'm not quite technically correct but I get why. Practicing at my "base" NZWP Whenuapai, I found firstly that REX weather screws the FDE up, so ditched that and used default RWX. Initially I was consistently too slow, attempting to get the numbers had me stalled at the runway every time. So sped up - approach speed of 180 resulted in a shallow AOA but got a smooth touchdown, allowing time to adjust the AOA to the donut and cutting throttle just a little to get a smooth touchdown. I found one key point was dont try to land it like a GA - fly it at 170 right to 1foot off the ground, a very little flare while power's still on and touchdown...Trying to improve this and follow the correct technique - approach at 170, on the donut invariably saw a smooth touchdown followed by overrunning the end of the runway by about 20-50 feet (landing too long). Then I read a bit more and discovered NZWP is 400 Metres short of the Talon's minimum runway length! Flew to Ohakea, then christchurch (which have NZ's longest runways along with NZAA) and nailed both as per jmigs destructions... As it is I can still get her into NZWP consistently but you really do have to hit the piano keys and get the nose up to allow the airframe to act as a brake, promptly - then as the nose lowers get on the brakes at about 110kias.
Stunning model - really. Multiplayer? Who cares! (well, ok some do - but not moi :))

LPXO

[LUCE1]

I just spent most of yesterday and today working on the T-38A's performance in MultiPlayer. The only thing I still have to work on is getting the Afterburner system to behave itself.
Good job n4gix, we have met several time on fsdeveloper and your suggestions to me have been constantly outstanding.
[OFF TOPIC] sorry for not interested readers...
So my 1 cent (may be you know it already...):
the sim var (A:IS USER SIM, bool) is of great help since you can know if the event interests the user player or another player.
ie:


/* tags avoided due to php parser here */
Animation
Parameter
Code
(A:IS USER SIM, bool) if{
/* you can use local variables here */
}
els{
/* local variables not seen here */
/* use sim var */
}
Code
Parameter
Animation


cheers

[tpet]

"It shall be fixed and all further Milviz planes will allow for MP (not necessarily shared cockpit though).".... someone must care...

[cortomalteseit]

In my very honest opinion, MP is a relevant part of FSX fun.
It allows to simulate combined ops with other pilots, and in this way you can discover many other dynamics of the aircraft then otherwise you never had the opportunity to know (e.g. acceleration of the thrust for mantaining the formation).
I cannot think about future FS without MP opportunities.
Thanks for reading.
:)

P.s.: i'm still not a T-38 user.

[DaveWG]

"What if?" repaint (WIP)

43896

[krazycolin]

:)

P.s.: i'm still not a T-38 user.

Well, you should be!!! (Give us your money!!! You won't be sorry!)

[Bone]

"What if?" repaint (WIP)

43896


I tend to really like "what if" paints.

[n4gix]

Yep, this about sums up my experience, more or less, up to now... :icon_lol: Still, if you want to kiss the runway at anything close to the correct AOA, you can't do it at anything less than the correct approach speed, in most cases, around 170 knots. I can land fine at 150 knots (sort of) but I touch the runway with the mains and the nose way up in the air...

Oh, it's indeed possible, watch the airspeed, the AoA, the indexer, and the VSI. It's critical to keep in mind that you can obtain a 0.6 AoA and have a "green doughnut" at any speed:

VC View:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqugRhymRHA

Exterior View:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DYVqlytinU

[fliger747]

I can indeed see where this one would be a lot of fun in a MP environment. Formation takeoffs, landings, practice intercepts etc.

It is a good trainer, you will learn some new things about flying!

T

[skyblazer3]

Nothing is so satisfying in this sim as taking off in a 4 ship with your buddies in multiplayer, flying a cross country talking to ATC, maintaining the integrity of the formation, and breaking over a field you have never been to before, everyone landing right on the line, and taxing in as a 4 ship.

I can't wait to do it with this T-38 -- an aircraft for FSX that really makes you feel like you are there.

Thanks again to the coders -- those wizards of XML, DX10, and Sim-Connect.

:salute:

[krazycolin]

Coming soon.

[doublecool]

:salute: Has any repaints been done for this fantastic little beast :jump:

[Roadburner440]

A multiplayer video taken by one of our testers. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvjfwu7D-ZE At least they are much better at flying than I am. :icon_lol:

[MenendezDiego]

^ Fun flight. I would have done better/had more time but I've been really busy with school lately.

Regards, Diego

[Skyhawk18]

Excellent flying and video shooting. :applause:
I have joined a lot MP sessions with the purpose of training formation flights.
Training with props is not an easy task. Training with jets is even more challenging :salute:

[skyblazer3]

Nice video guys -- glad to see you enjoying MP.... it is a brave new world.:salute::salute:

[Roadburner440]

Good evening all. Just put up some new liveries from Gunnar. You may download them, and 2 screenshots of the Holloman AFB bird here: http://www.milviz.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=1154 .

[Warrant]

Just downloaded the Milviz T-38 wrapper from the site using the link given on the first page of this thread (http://www.milviz.com/fs/item.php?id=T-38A). While unpacking i got a Trojan warning by BitDefender! Warning concerned the following: Trojan Generic. 5742776. BitDefender deleted the contents automatically.

Anyone else with the same issue?

Will not purchase before this is solved.

Edit: scanning the zipfile with BitDefender results in the deletion of the ZipFile.


Screenshot below:

44161

[kilo delta]

I think it's safe to assume that you are getting a false positive from your AV,Warrant. ;)

[Warrant]

I think it's safe to assume that you are getting a false positive from your AV,Warrant. ;)


Thanks, just read that while posting the same report at the MilViz forum.
Gonna try their approach, though i'm not happy with lowering shields (suffered another incident with Trojans just recently).

Edit: Install worked after turning off VS. First gonna test a/c, but i fear the moment i switch on my VS again.......

[krazycolin]

It will be fine after you install it.

But do let us know... Unless, of course, you are BUSY flying the plane!!!!

[Warrant]

It will be fine after you install it.

But do let us know... Unless, of course, you are BUSY flying the plane!!!!

Install was OK. Now i'm busy......starting the thing!
Guess i have to go to manuals again. Not going anywhere at the moment.

Bird sure does look great though!

Virus scan will be my priority after flying (if i will get to that).

Edit: Where the heck is the quick start option? For the first flight i don't wanna walk to a gazillion pages or procedures. Is there a quick start procedure?
(have to work tomorrow and the greater part of this weekend, so i really want to ....fly)

Can't wait to master this bird, she looks sexy! (great job there dev's!)

[Roadburner440]

Warrant there is no quick start, although there is one of the F-15.. For the T-38 just flip the battery switch on, and then you do not have to use the huffer/power cart. Just hit the 2 round black buttons on the bottom left of the main panel. After you get sufficient engine speed (17-20%) go to the corresponding throttle lever, and click the grey lever on the front part to inject fuel. Once you get it down this can be done in under a couple minutes. You should not get any warnings after it is installed though.

[spotlope]

This is one of the simplest planes to start of any I've flown. Don't forget the throttle cutoff valves (or whatever they're called - I don't have the manual next to me right now), which are the switches atop the throttle levers. When they're in cutoff mode, not even Ctl-E will get you going.

[neutrino]

The most important thing to remember: use power to control your AoA, use pitch to control your speed.

Unless the aerodynamics in the Air Force are different from the NAVY, you use POWER to control ALTITUDE (climb/descent rate), and you use STICK to control AOA (speed).

If you only add power, in the short run (couple of seconds) the jet will accelerate, but then it will start to climb and oscillate back to its original speed/AOA. No stick will be necessary to achieve this new climb rate. Therefore, it is said that power is the primary control for altitude. In reality, to speed up the process, you always help with the stick so that the jet starts to climb without accelerating first, and then you release the stick.

Same thing for speed. If you only pull back on the stick a little, the AOA will increase and the aircraft will initially climb, but then it will lose some speed and settle to its original climb/descent rate but at a lower speed. Again, no power change, just stick. Therefore, the stick is the primary control for AOA, which determines speed. In reality, if you want to decrease speed, you may pull back on the throttle initially to prevent the climb, but then you have to add that back.

[bstolle]

. In reality, if you want to decrease speed, you may pull back on the throttle initially to prevent the climb, but then you have to add that back.

Oh oh, not that old discussion again.
Besides that your example is, erm, politely said, somewhat questionable.

[neutrino]

Oh oh, not that old discussion again.
Besides that your example is, erm, politely said, somewhat questionable.

It's basic flight fundamentals, you can read it in any book about flying :icon_lol:

[VaporZ]

Here is an interesting MilViz T-38 circuit pattern found on You Tube !
Put it full screen mode and check and memorise the speed, descent rate and
AOA readings on the cockpit.

You should be fine for smooth landings !

Enjoy !
:mixedsmi:
VaporZ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u13I6fWqwH8

[PRB]

It's interesting to note the slight differences in techique between the vidoes posted by VaporZ and Bill. VaporZ's glide slope seems more "standard", while Bill's is very shallow and flat, which also corresponds with the advice given in the POH. Over the numbers, however, both pilots arrive at the same "place" in terms of airspeed/AOA and height above the runway at touchdown. That would make sense, I guess (duh).

Every time I watch these videos in full screen, about half way through I start grabbing the hat switch and trying to pan around the cockpit, lolol.

[VaporZ]

I asked to repaint...

Here is my friend an interesting repaint project for this T-38A :

USNTPS "Press To Test" Talons.

Some reference here :
http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Rev1/501-600/Rev508_TwoBobs48066/00.shtm

Thanks in advance
:mixedsmi:
VaporZ

[bstolle]

It's interesting to note the slight differences in techique between the vidoes posted by VaporZ and Bill. VaporZ's glide slope seems more "standard", while Bill's is very shallow and flat, which also corresponds with the advice given in the POH

'flat' is an optical illusion in the video Bill posted because I've flown this approach with a 0.33 zoom setting (to have all the instruments in view).
Until the 'transition' the rate of descend is average 900fpm.
The ground speed is 155kts which means that glidepath is even slightly more steep than the standard 3deg.
Furthermore the VASIS are all red because you don't want to cross the threshold at 50ft in the T-38 so the 3deg glidepath is actually 'parallel' to the ILS or visual glideslope.
That of course makes another 'too low' impression.

[PRB]

'flat' is an optical illusion in the video Bill posted because I've flown this approach with a 0.33 zoom setting (to have all the instruments in view).
Until the 'transition' the rate of descend is average 900fpm.
The ground speed is 155kts which means that glidepath is even slightly more steep than the standard 3deg.
Furthermore the VASIS are all red because you don't want to cross the threshold at 50ft in the T-38 so the 3deg glidepath is actually 'parallel' to the ILS or visual glideslope.
That of course makes another 'too low' impression.

That was one thing that caused question marks to pop up over my head when watching Bill's video. I kept thinking "how the heck can he keep descending at 700-900 FPM, while being that low the whole time? What sort of magic plane is this?" :icon_lol: My landings are getting pretty good (says the student pilot!) In truth I busted the gear twice, so far, but I haven't done that in a long time now. I think I'm ready for a real one now, hehe.

[Skyhawk18]

Here is my friend an interesting repaint project for this T-38A :

USNTPS "Press To Test" Talons.

Some reference here :
http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Rev1/501-600/Rev508_TwoBobs48066/00.shtm

Thanks in advance
:mixedsmi:
VaporZ

I am painting this one right now..... :icon_lol:

[VaporZ]

I am painting this one right now..... :icon_lol:

Thanks Gunnar !
:mixedsmi:
VaporZ

[skyblazer3]

Having talked with some T-38 drivers out at Randolph AB, they have the same problem on their first few landings.... dropping it in from 10 feet, or slamming it into the ground and bouncing..... it just takes time and experience.

I wouldn't worry too much about "flying it by the numbers," just fly it naturally, react to what you see, and be a pilot. Don't over think the problem.... just fly it naturally.

Great aircraft Milviz.
:salute::salute::salute::salute:

[Bone]

It's basic flight fundamentals, you can read it in any book about flying :icon_lol:

Along with being a top notch FDE designer for FSX (he did the Milviz T-38), Bernt is a B-767 Captain for an International Flag Carrier. He's most likely forgoten more about flying airplanes than most people have even learned. No worries about anything, I just thought I'd put that down on record.

[Skyhawk_310R]

Unless the aerodynamics in the Air Force are different from the NAVY, you use POWER to control ALTITUDE (climb/descent rate), and you use STICK to control AOA (speed).

If you only add power, in the short run (couple of seconds) the jet will accelerate, but then it will start to climb and oscillate back to its original speed/AOA. No stick will be necessary to achieve this new climb rate. Therefore, it is said that power is the primary control for altitude. In reality, to speed up the process, you always help with the stick so that the jet starts to climb without accelerating first, and then you release the stick.

Same thing for speed. If you only pull back on the stick a little, the AOA will increase and the aircraft will initially climb, but then it will lose some speed and settle to its original climb/descent rate but at a lower speed. Again, no power change, just stick. Therefore, the stick is the primary control for AOA, which determines speed. In reality, if you want to decrease speed, you may pull back on the throttle initially to prevent the climb, but then you have to add that back.

I would prefer to think of glideslope as the ideal path in the air you wish to maintain and angle-of-attack as the primary speed reference (and if you aren't fortunate enough to have an accurate AoA indicator) to use indicated airspeed instead.

Pitch and power is used in harmony to maintain both speed and ideal glidepath. Neither can be removed from the other, but for smoothness should be considered partners in the effort.

If you find yourself low, you add power and increase pitch. If you find yourself high, you decrease power and pitch. If you are slow but on glideslope, you can add power withoutchange in pitch. If you are fast but on glideslope you can reduce power without change in pitch. But, ultimately it tends to be small corrections in pitch and power more or less continuously.

Anyway, that's how I was taught to do it. But, there is some art work involved in flying.

Again, guys, the key to happiness in the pattern with this jet is speed. That green donut on the AoA is a nice mark, but not something likely to sustain for any long time, and the red arrow is very bad and should be avoided until you are flaring to touchdown to at least transitioning to the flare over threshold with landing assured and committed to.

So, this means that the "perfect" AoA index indication should really be the yellow arrow with the green donut thrown in cycling on and off repeatedly in concert with the constant yellow arrow.

Then, try to maintain optimal glidepath while managing the speed and pitch combination.

[Skyhawk18]

Here is my friend an interesting repaint project for this T-38A :

USNTPS "Press To Test" Talons.

Some reference here :
http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/Rev1/501-600/Rev508_TwoBobs48066/00.shtm

Thanks in advance
:mixedsmi:
VaporZ

First shots from the (unfinished) USNTPS livery. Still a lot of adjustments to be done.....
44368 44369 44370 44371 44372

[mohawk3]

Does anyone noticed that is something wrong with the aft canopy in the external model?When opens it looses a piece that otherways is firmly attached to the canopy?

[Skyhawk18]

Does anyone noticed that is something wrong with the aft canopy in the external model?When opens it looses a piece that otherways is firmly attached to the canopy?

Not sure what you ment here.....
Can you post a screenshot, showing the issue?

[VaporZ]

First shots from the (unfinished) USNTPS livery. Still a lot of adjustments to be done.....
44368 44369 44370 44371 44372

Superb !
Let us know when and where you will share this beautifull repaint with us !
:applause::ernae::applause:
VaporZ

[mohawk3]

443864438744388
Not sure what you ment here.....
Can you post a screenshot, showing the issue?
I've posted same pics on Milviz Forums

[mohawk3]

PS: This is visible only from outside. From the seat (front or aft) everything looks OK.

[krazycolin]

We see it and have responded in the support forums.

It willl be fixed.

[bstolle]

http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/2518/53354230.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/696/53354230.jpg/)

Hi Zsoltquack,

Are your superb repaints available for download?
Couldn't find them...

Best regards

Bernt

[JAllen]

I am thinking repaints are going to be scarce because anyone who has this airplane is going to be flying instead of painting!!! :icon_lol:

Never have I spent so many hours shooting touch n go!! I can just almost do it by the numbers now. So bring on that F-15.

Programmed my Warthog to run off FSUIPC4 and now I can push actual buttons/switches to start the jet. Thank you for the macros!

Still lovin' the Talon

Jim

[bstolle]

Never have I spent so many hours shooting touch n go!! I can just almost do it by the numbers now. So bring on that F-15.


I can tell you that after month of flying exclusively the T-38, touch & gos with F-15 are just relaxing.

Flying the Eagle definitely feels like the reward for mastering the T-38 :icon_lol:

[n4gix]

Flying the Eagle definitely feels like the reward for mastering the T-38 :icon_lol:

Considering that I've had my nose in the T-38 for so bloody long, I'm definitely looking forward to something a bit easier to fly! :ernae:

[dvj]

Ok, I'm getting close to purchasing this bird based on the wonderful screenshots. Can I use a keyboard, or is it joystick operation only?

d

[krazycolin]

uh... you can use a keyboard like with most but... why not get a joystick.. .makes things so much more... er... uh... joyous?

[strykerpsg]

I am thinking repaints are going to be scarce because anyone who has this airplane is going to be flying instead of painting!!! :icon_lol:

Never have I spent so many hours shooting touch n go!! I can just almost do it by the numbers now. So bring on that F-15.

Programmed my Warthog to run off FSUIPC4 and now I can push actual buttons/switches to start the jet. Thank you for the macros!

Still lovin' the Talon

Jim

Errr, explain the macros. I too have the Warthog and would love to expand it's capabilities. Do I need to purchase FSUIPC4 versus the freeware variant?

Thanks and apologies for sidebarring just a sec from such a great plane.

Matt

[fliger747]

As with any even semi advanced FS aircraft, a joystick is really needed to fly it. An expensive one is not needed. I use a Saitek one that breaks down for transport and has two throttles (for the T-38 I set the #2 throttle to the speed brake) and is not expensive.

Cheers: T

[Roadburner440]

Thanks and apologies for sidebarring just a sec from such a great plane.

Matt

Anytime you want to use FSUIPC for your own purposes you must purchase the full version.. When I bougth the FS Labs Concorde X (and I have had this issue with PMDG's MD-11X) I was experiencing the dreaded S-turns on autopilot in bad weather.. I wound up buying the full version of FSUIPC as you can set how fast the winds change. So it is useful for a lot more things that just setting joystick preferences/axis. Certaintly has made my flying experience better since I purchased it sometime last year.

[JAllen]

Matt,
Milviz gave us a file containing macros for many functions in cockpit like engine starters that are otherwise limited to mouse clicks. You can assign the start engine switches to toggles on the throttle. Even the finger lifts built into the Warthog (now that's cool). I think you have to have the registered version of FSUIPC4, but, that eliminates profiles. Realism and immersion is awesome when you lift the throttles, shove to idle and move the starter switches (just like starting the A-10C in another sim). Bringing the T-38A to life in such a way is the best "feel there" going, until you get this ANIMAL in the air.

Note: don't gotta have an expensive Warthog to use the macros

Jim

[Tulkas]

Hi.

How is working the multiplayer now? Is that fix?

Has anybody given a try to the shared cockpit? I think this can be an awesome plane to share cockpit and if that works I will purchase it on the spot.

Cheers

Tulkas

[krazycolin]

MP now works. Shared cockpit, I doubt it. Too many "special" variables to transmit. But you can try it if you wish...

We will be releasing the patch which, btw, has a lot more than just fixes in it...

[jp]

This may be a dumb question.... But how will we get the patch? Will we have to run the installer again, or download from your site?

[krazycolin]

You will have to run the installer again.

[skyblazer3]

can not wait....... however, I'm afraid that a month of fieldwork on a reservation in North Dakota will keep me away from flying the Talon until September.... hopefully a patch by the time I get back?

[krazycolin]

Deffo.

[krazycolin]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-oYW5j4jpNk&feature=player_profilepage