FSX on a MAC

[codeseven]

Anybody playing FSX on a MAC (using Bootcamp), and liking it?

I built my PC 3yrs ago. It was 'top o the line' back then but it's considered Prehistoric nowadays. I like Apple's products and I'm considering ditching the problematic PC world for good and switching to MAC. Mac's dont have the GPU/API prowess that PC's do (so far) and there is no MAC version of FSX (yet) but is gameplay just as good?

[hinch]

I've done it and it works OK but using bootcamp/parallels is a bit inconvenient. I'm also unsure if either support Vista.

The novelty of owning a Mac wears off very quickly if you're into computers but for a casual user they're great if still overpriced. Remember 1GB of RAM will cost £90 from their shop though the same product (to the product number not just any 1GB piece of RAM) will be in PC World for £15.

[Lionheart]

I have a friend that has it on her Mac and it plays FSX fairly good.

It would be nice if you could get FSX for Apple OS. Apple can use up to something like 36+ gigs of RAM... (yep... gigs of RAM). But it wouldnt be visible in XP which is what BootCamp uses. Thus, if you could get a powerful Apple rig and had a Apple version of FSX, you might end up with one powerful, smooth running setup.



Bill

[Gregory Paul]

Well can't you use up to 128GB of RAM using Vista or in the 64 bit version of XP?

[Bjoern]

Well can't you use up to 128GB of RAM using Vista or in the 64 bit version of XP?

Server 2003 64
XP 64
Vista 64
Server 2008 64

[bkeske]

We use Mac's at work.

I can tell you this, everything Mac costs twice+ more to buy vs a PC in terms of hardware. That is enough for me not to consider one for a 'gamer' which desires to be continually updated until the MB is maxed out.....we are/were looking to upgrade one at work just the last couple days....I always shake my head looking at the specs vs price tag.

[kilo delta]

Well can't you use up to 128GB of RAM using Vista or in the 64 bit version of XP?

....and would likely still suffer the FSX "out of memory" error :)

[PaulVR]

I have a Macpro with 3 Gb RAM, Radeon X1900 video card (526 Mb), Vista 64 bit installed with bootcamp. FSX runs pretty well at about 24 fps with most settings at 75 % or more.

As to macs costing twice as much as comparable pc's, that's a grosse overstatement. However, upgrading hardware is indeed more difficult because of less options.

Paul

[bkeske]

Well, perhaps an exaggeration based on my latest shopping frustration, but there is little doubt Mac's are more expensive than PC's. I've never spent more than $700 on a PC 'box'....my iBook cost more than that used (a computer I use for many of my posts here), and it cannot 'touch' my PC for speed and general performance.

Listen, I use both, appreciate both, and like both, for different things. I simply could not see running a sim like FS on a Mac. Not without paying a fortune. I looked at the MacPro's ($2,500-3,000 seems pretty easy to reach), I just cannot see spending that much money, even on a work computer....and I am in the design/architectural biz. I will say this though, I think OSX is a brilliant OS system. And Mac's are 'purty' ;) But....I have had more Mac hardware problems over the years than PC problems. Just had a logic board on one of the draftsman's iMac computers go bad in the middle of a big project today....aaaarg. A 'new' used one will be at the office by Thursday.....I hope so, I need to get invoices out.

[Lionheart]

I intend to find out how well it runs on an Apple.

:d

[bkeske]

What is an Apple? :costumes:

[txnetcop]

I play FSX with MacBook Pro 1.5 at my physician sites as doctors prefer Macs for patient care yet they use Xeon servers. I fail to find the fascination with FSX on a MAC. You still have to use Bootcamp 2.0 and you are still using either Windows XP Pro sp3 or Vista to run it on a machine that uses exactly the same parts as you can buy for a PC and it runs FSX slower than a more inexpensive game machine. Macs are ridiculously priced and you are getting the same components. You can't use the argument that MAC OS is better for running FSX because you are still using Windows OS to run it...:isadizzy: BTW the graphics for FSX on a standard Gamer system are far superior to MAC's slow interface. The big problem is the memory interface that just kills frame rates. Save your money Bill and get a Gamer.
Ted

[Lionheart]

Ted,

Thanks for your input. I respect your advice.

I am still determined to get a Mac. :d You could say that vista converted me into a Apple person, lol...



Bill

[bkeske]

Yes, I believe Vista was designed to mimic OSX. We all chuckled in the office when we saw the first screen shots in the office, as we had been running OSX for about a year....and the similarities in the look were quite evident.

I still run XP on my home PC's. :mixedsmi: But will probably end up moving to a 64 bit system one of these days....but being an RXP gauge fanboy, seems there are too many troubles running 64 bit and the Garmin trainer/RXP 430/530's. That is enough to make me hold on to XP.

[hey_moe]

I brought a Mac lap top this past summer. Best investment I have ever made. I also boot into Windows with boot camp. The Apple has not missed a beat. The Apple OS is the best I have seen with loads of features.

[txnetcop]

Ted,

Thanks for your input. I respect your advice.

I am still determined to get a Mac. :d You could say that vista converted me into a Apple person, lol...



Bill

Well I admit that part I can understand...with Vista SP1 I have seen some improvement in Vista and I can see light at the end of the tunnel in a better network interface, but I do think the newest Apple OS is a lot less cumbersome. As for gaming in DX10 Preview I have been sorely disappointed. I hope that with SP2 coming down the pike they have taken another look at how DX10 should work with games. I think it was that first artist's rendering of DX10 and FSX that set the bar way up there...of course none of us knew at the time it was just an artist's rendering.
Happy gaming Amigo
Ted

[codeseven]

Hi guys, looks like I'll be answering my own question soon enough. I posted this over on NewsHawks in response to another thread:

Hi Bill.

After hearing me complain about Windows for the past few years, Santa (my Wife) surprised me with a MacBook Pro! My first Apple computer!!

Guys, I have to agree with Bill. The workmanship, look, feel and overall quality is way beyond any PC I have ever seen!! Including the custom, 'best of everything' (at the time) PC I built myself several years ago.

She (bless her heart!) made sure it was the newest version of Apples Macbook Pro series currently available and it has all the upgrades. This thing puts my ol' custom homebuilt PC to shame! I'm blown away a 'laptop' could be such a powerful little computer. It has an Intel Core 2 Duo 2.8GHz 1066MHz frontside bus with 6MB L2 Cache, 4GB 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM, Nvidia GeForce 9600 GT with 512MB of GDDR3 memory, 320GB Hard Drive and Apples newest OS X Leopard operating system, sheesh!

She even included a 500GB Time Capsule 802.11n Wi-Fi Hard Drive and a copy of made for MAC Call of Duty 4 Modern Warfare! (I gotta give the Sales person at the Apple store a big hug for suggesting to my wife that a video game would be good for learning about the new OS!) Which I promptly loaded up and watched in absolute amazement!! Cant wait to see FSX via Bootcamp on a remote widescreen monitor!!!

If anyone out there has thought about going the Apple MAC route rest assured you will not be dissapointed!


Codeseven
<!-- / message -->

[Lionheart]

Hi guys, looks like I'll be answering my own question soon enough. I posted this over on NewsHawks in response to another thread:

Hi Bill.

After hearing me complain about Windows for the past few years, Santa (my Wife) surprised me with a MacBook Pro! My first Apple computer!!

Guys, I have to agree with Bill. The workmanship, look, feel and overall quality is way beyond any PC I have ever seen!! Including the custom, 'best of everything' (at the time) PC I built myself several years ago.

She (bless her heart!) made sure it was the newest version of Apples Macbook Pro series currently available and it has all the upgrades. This thing puts my ol' custom homebuilt PC to shame! I'm blown away a 'laptop' could be such a powerful little computer. It has an Intel Core 2 Duo 2.8GHz 1066MHz frontside bus with 6MB L2 Cache, 4GB 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM, Nvidia GeForce 9600 GT with 512MB of GDDR3 memory, 320GB Hard Drive and Apples newest OS X Leopard operating system, sheesh!

She even included a 500GB Time Capsule 802.11n Wi-Fi Hard Drive and a copy of made for MAC Call of Duty 4 Modern Warfare! (I gotta give the Sales person at the Apple store a big hug for suggesting to my wife that a video game would be good for learning about the new OS!) Which I promptly loaded up and watched in absolute amazement!! Cant wait to see FSX via Bootcamp on a remote widescreen monitor!!!

If anyone out there has thought about going the Apple MAC route rest assured you will not be dissapointed!


Codeseven
<!-- / message -->


Hey CodeSeven,


I too am now officially Apple.

I have the iMac 24inch Flat Screen unit with Intel Core Duo 2.8 mhz, 4 Gigs of Ram (XP only sees 3 Gigs.. arrghh), and the ATI Mobility Radeon HD 2600XT GC with 256 megs of ram in the GC.

Runs FSX very well. I have sliders at stock settings except for Scenery Complexity and World Texture Resolutions set at max settings. Everything runs smooth except the 'Anti-Aliasing', which brings about amazing clarity, but drops frames from 20 to 7-12 FPS. (Locked at 20 FPS).

This is the first time ever that I have been able to fly with smooth frame rates in FSX and have things like water at 2.X+, with ground traffic, AI traffic, clouds, and autogen.



Also, I decided to keep FS9 and FSX in a seperate external HD. They go through a USB cable to the computer. So, even with all that, its still pretty smooth..


Apple has come a long way....



Perhaps someday, they will have a version of FS in Mac format. Then we can run it with 12 to 32 gigs of RAM! (Dont have low limits of RAM in Apple OSX). :D



Bill

[codeseven]

Hey CodeSeven,


I too am now officially Apple.

I have the iMac 24inch Flat Screen unit with Intel Core Duo 2.8 mhz, 4 Gigs of Ram (XP only sees 3 Gigs.. arrghh), and the ATI Mobility Radeon HD 2600XT GC with 256 megs of ram in the GC.

Runs FSX very well. I have sliders at stock settings except for Scenery Complexity and World Texture Resolutions set at max settings. Everything runs smooth except the 'Anti-Aliasing', which brings about amazing clarity, but drops frames from 20 to 7-12 FPS. (Locked at 20 FPS).

This is the first time ever that I have been able to fly with smooth frame rates in FSX and have things like water at 2.X+, with ground traffic, AI traffic, clouds, and autogen.



Also, I decided to keep FS9 and FSX in a seperate external HD. They go through a USB cable to the computer. So, even with all that, its still pretty smooth..


Apple has come a long way....



Perhaps someday, they will have a version of FS in Mac format. Then we can run it with 12 to 32 gigs of RAM! (Dont have low limits of RAM in Apple OSX). :D



Bill


Good to know Bill, my new laptop should run FSX fine, looking forward to it!


Codeseven

[codeseven]

I purchased FSX Gold, on sale, to use on my MacBook Pro.

But first a question. I have full editions of XP, XP Pro X64 and Vista 32 laying around. Using Boot Camp, which one of those would 'you' use to run FSX?

Edit: I just thought about a couple things. I have 4gigs of memory installed. XP can only recognize 3gigs, also, Dx 10 is Vista only if I recall correctly.

[Lionheart]

Man.. This is a give and take situation...


XP is very good on laptops.. Fast, quick, sharp, lite... Like a Bugatti F1 engine casted in Magnesium....


vista though is like a Bugatti Royale engine, two straight eights combined. Has some cool graphics, and a huge OS to weigh down the processors....


If you are wanting 'blume' (which is what DX10 offers, looks like haze), then definately load up vista. If you want it to run fast and quick, lite and sharp, then load up XP.


Wait for some other opinions though... I am only one voice in the crowd.


(I had / have a cool HP laptop.. could barely run vista.. would take like 4 mins or more to boot up. I had XP installed on it instead.. thing is a little super computer now).



Bill

[kilo delta]

I run XP on all of my laptops. My Alienware M9750 came with Vista and dual Nvidia 8700GT cards but I wound up installing XP Pro SP3 and fitted a pair of Nvidia 7950GT cards instead for a better gaming experience.
I'm waiting on Alienware to offer the dual ATi 4870 cards on their M17 notebook.......then I'll be all over it!!:costumes:

[Lionheart]

I run XP on all of my laptops. My Alienware M9750 came with Vista and dual Nvidia 8700GT cards but I wound up installing XP Pro SP3 and fitted a pair of Nvidia 7950GT cards instead for a better gaming experience.
I'm waiting on Alienware to offer the dual ATi 4870 cards on their M17 notebook.......then I'll be all over it!!:costumes:

Goodness.. Dual cards in a Notebook???

This truly is the future, lol.. Amazing.


This morning, I couldnt sleep, was playing around with hovering the Tilt Rotor. I wanted some AI traffic around the airport and bumped up AI GA traffic to 100%. Couldnt believe it. No change in frame rates... :d

Lovin it.

I wonder if this iMac has the new dual graphics card/CPU chips. Supposedly its their new big concept. No more talking to the CPU through the board, linked directly 'into' the chip. They said the speeds were moderately increased in performance.



Bill

[kilo delta]

Sli/crossfire has been available for the last few years in notebooks.... my 3 year old M9700 notebook has sli'd Nvidia 512mb 7900GS cards. Pity that FS9/X doesn't take advantage of the second card :(

[Lionheart]

They need to really get on that..

Another cool thing that would help FSX run faster is to have it available for Mac OSX. Their OS allows for up to 32 Gigs of RAM. Who knows how many chips and GC's you can put in their tower...



Bill

[Chuck_Jodry-VJPL]

Bill what Killed / Happened to the two computers you had been using/torturing anyway.. i was wondering .. Why ? or how they died , you have had a remarkable run of bad luck, i run Vista on two machines , one a notebook the other a desktop and have never had a problem.

[Lionheart]

Bill what Killed / Happened to the two computers you had been using/torturing anyway.. i was wondering .. Why ? or how they died , you have had a remarkable run of bad luck, i run Vista on two machines , one a notebook the other a desktop and have never had a problem.


Hey Chuck,


Around Jan., Hybrid virus claimed a HD, uncleanable.
Around March, a power outage, possible lightning strike took out one rig
Around December, after installing a PSU, upon 4th bootup, the Mobo decided it was time to go to PC heaven.

I do run them hard though Chuck. The last unit may have been on its way out anyways. I do so much testing, booting up FSX and FS9 daily countless times. I am amazed they last this long. I will be setting up alternatives and backups though. I have my eye on the G5 Apple Mac Pro tower as a future main studio rig, keep the iMac 24 inch as a backup.

This Apple is sweet. I feel that losing the HP Media Center (not even a year old) was a blessing in disquise. This new rig boots up in several seconds, be it XP or OSX.



Bill

[Bjoern]

Around December, after installing a PSU, upon 4th bootup, the Mobo decided it was time to go to PC heaven.


I told you about a thousand times that you should not talk bad about your hardware behind its back! Those silicon things understand way more than you would believe and voilà, they end up all depressed and doing a Kurt Cobain on you! :d :costumes:




*Pats his Thinkpad*
*Gets a purring from the CPU cooler*
Good boy....good boy...:d

[codeseven]

XP Pro X64, I really liked this OS. Smooth and fast but driver compatability was a real hassle. I had to hack some programs to get them to work (SH3) even worse now Microsoft no longer updates or supports it.

Vista, in regards to FSX, if it's only good for enabling blume in Dx10 then it might not be worth the strain the OS and Dx10 put on my notebooks medium powered CPU and GPU.

I think perhaps the best coarse of action would be to use good lo' XP x32 SP3.

[n4gix]

I've never understood why folks will spend mucho $'s on computer hardware, but are too stingy to invest <$100 in a decent UPS to protect said computer hardware...

...I have never lost a bit of hardware due to voltage spikes, brownouts, or complete power failure... :173go1:

Also, regarding the use of dual cards (SLI or Crossfire) do understand that there's no "special programming" that is required to "make use of them..." Both SLI and Crossfire are set up to distribute the load automatically. They do not need any special instructions to "turn 'em on."

[Bjoern]

XP Pro X64, I really liked this OS. Smooth and fast but driver compatability was a real hassle.

I can find XP64 drivers for all of my hardware, so I guess support has gotten better nowadays.

[codeseven]

I can find XP64 drivers for all of my hardware, so I guess support has gotten better nowadays.

Could be, it's been awhile. Are you using it with FSX and do you think it's better than on XP x32?

[Bjoern]

Are you using it with FSX and do you think it's better than on XP x32?

I have spent nerly zero time flying in FSX ever since installing XP64, so I can't comment on that.

[codeseven]

I have spent nerly zero time flying in FSX ever since installing XP64

Just curious, why no FSX now?

[Lionheart]

...I have never lost a bit of hardware due to voltage spikes, brownouts, or complete power failure... :173go1:




Yep... Phoenix power company.. Salt River Project. My lights are always doing the fade down, brighten up thing. Amazing.... I need a giant spike protector attached to the main house power.

You would think we would be using power from the nuclear powerplant by us.. But no.. That all goes to California. Why do they build a powerplant in Phoenix I ask you? Why not Utah or Nevada..? arrghh....



Bill

[tigisfat]

I play FSX with MacBook Pro 1.5 at my physician sites as doctors prefer Macs for patient care yet they use Xeon servers. I fail to find the fascination with FSX on a MAC. You still have to use Bootcamp 2.0 and you are still using either Windows XP Pro sp3 or Vista to run it on a machine that uses exactly the same parts as you can buy for a PC and it runs FSX slower than a more inexpensive game machine. Macs are ridiculously priced and you are getting the same components. You can't use the argument that MAC OS is better for running FSX because you are still using Windows OS to run it...:isadizzy: BTW the graphics for FSX on a standard Gamer system are far superior to MAC's slow interface. The big problem is the memory interface that just kills frame rates. Save your money Bill and get a Gamer.
Ted

I don't think it's about deciding which is better. I think it's more likely an issue of 'I'm stuck with a mac, can't afford two computers but still want FSX' in most cases.

[Kiwikat]

I don't think it's about deciding which is better. I think it's more likely an issue of 'I'm stuck with a mac, can't afford two computers but still want FSX' in most cases.

In most cases, you could afford two FSX computers for the price of a "decent" mac... :mixedsmi:

[Bjoern]

Just curious, why no FSX now?

Okay, just came back from a test in FSX, so let me come clean.

I *****ing hate this OS.

FSX is stuttering with catastrophic loss of FPS. Everything is semi-fine while the aircraft stands still on the ground, but as soon as there's motion, FPS drop to 8 to 9 and the sim just s-t-u-t-t-e-r-s. This has happened with with the latest 180.84, 180.70 and 180.48 drivers from NVidia and to a lesser extent with the old 178.92 series, but random stuttering is still encountered.

Frustration!

Fallout 3 decides to BSOD on me once in a while or quite often (depending on video driver installed) as well as the whole system if I'm turning it on for the first time on the day. Other games, like Far Cry 2 were just tested briefly to check driver quality/performance.

Frustration!²

Ever since deciding to go 64bit I've been plagued with nothing but troubles. I neverever had the chance to *really* enjoy my hardware upgrades. Three OS'es (Vista x64, Server 2008 x64, XP x64) denied me the hassle-free gaming and working that XP x32 could provide.
I've spent more time trouble-shooting than flying, modeling or gaming and this is simply what it shouldn't be about.

The best thing is, I can't find a cause. My hardware is a-ok mechanically; it's gotta be somewhere in the OS/drivers.

Frustration!³

I would really like to go back to XP x32, but the thing is that x64 is so much faster in some applications (not games) and it can use the whole 4GB and stuff...




P.S: FSAirlines logged my last *real* flight in FSX on October 13th. Sad, isn't it?

[codeseven]

I *****ing hate this OS.

Three OS'es (Vista x64, Server 2008 x64, XP x64) denied me the hassle-free gaming and working that XP x32 could provide.


Ok, that pretty much made up my mind, thanks.


Codeseven

[Lionheart]

Man Bjoern,

I could truly shed a tear there.. I know the struggle. We have trully tried to run this thing.... Every single trick, adjustment, tweak, niggle, jiggle, prayer, tap, smack, clobber, GC, PSU, CPU, RAM.......

:friday: :faint:



arrghhh

[txnetcop]

I don't think it's about deciding which is better. I think it's more likely an issue of 'I'm stuck with a mac, can't afford two computers but still want FSX' in most cases.

Sorry I was unclear. I am not throwing rocks at MAC...it is exellent for what it was designed for but it was never meant to be a gamer unit...now maybe with the easy interface it has that will happen but they have some internal changes to make to put it up there with a good, well-built Windows Gaming Machine. Like I said I play with a MAC Pro when I get bored baby-sitting a bunch of servers. But the gamer I built for less than $1100 runs circles around the fastest MAC and runs FSX nearly flawlessly(Everyone I have built for would testify to that). I would love to see the day that Steven Jobs opens up MAC for third party hardware product developers. It would lower the cost of MACS and open the gaming market for it. But if someone is buying a MAC just to run FSX that is insane.
Ted

[Bjoern]

Ok, that pretty much made up my mind, thanks

No problem.

By the way, I could be very much alone with that opinion. I think most people have no problem at all with x64 OSes and XP64 in particular.




Man Bjoern,

I could truly shed a tear there.. I know the struggle. We have trully tried to run this thing.... Every single trick, adjustment, tweak, niggle, jiggle, prayer, tap, smack, clobber, GC, PSU, CPU, RAM.......

:friday: :faint:



arrghhh

If it wasn't for the money spent, I would throw this thing off the next highrise building.


Off to install XP32.

[kilo delta]

I can confirm that I've had no issues with Vista Ultimate 64bit...especially since SP1 was released. I'm running this OS on all of my desktop systems. :whistle::)

[kilo delta]

oops. double post

[beatle]

I'll throw my vote in with Kilo's, I've never had any problems with FlightSim, Visual Studio, or Office on my Vista 64-bit systems, and I've been using that on my primary dev machines for more than 2 years now (so SP2/XPack and ESPv1 developement timeframe).

The main source of issues with using a 64-bit OS are those wierd gadgetty peripherals made by companies no one ever heard of (things like serial or USB text displays, graphic displays, etc) and certain older printers that were abandoned by their manufacturers - these only had 32-bit drivers written for them, and the company is either no longer around or just has written off the particular device, and no 64-bit driver will be forthcoming.

Any hardware purchased in the last couple of years (except maybe for some of the fly-by-night gadgetty stuff still, and certain TV tuner devices (ya hear me Pinnacle? :-> ) ) will have both 64-bit and 32-bit drivers available, or will be designed to work with existing class drivers and thus require no custom drivers at all.

There may still be certain 3rd party addons that aren't 64-bit compatible for one or more reasons (including building a Managed client using the Any CPU setting instead of the x86 specific build setting, assuming certain paths instead of looking them up in the registry or querying for System Folder paths, etc).

Tim

[Lionheart]

Hey Ted,


If I might humbly add to that.

On this computer (new iMac aluminum 24inch flat panel), it is running with an ATI Radeon HD 2600 Pro, store bought 4 Gigs of DDR2 Ram, store bought 1 TB HD, and features an Intel dual core 2.8 mhrz chip.

Its the first time I have seen FSX run this smooth. I even have ground traffic now, and GA AI is up to 100%. The parts for Macs can be purchased at Frys and at NewEgg, and the parts are inexpensive. My 'sodium' 4Gig sticks were $49.00.

And.. I am now considering the G5 tower with a twin quad core, perhaps 12+ gigs of RAM, and a Sli.

I think Macs have taken a turn for what the people want, and gaming 'is' a main factor here. For instance, the newest edition of Call of Duty is available in Mac format, which would enable use of tons of RAM, as much as you could get. :d (OSX presently is limited to 32 Gigs of RAM).


So in defence of Mac, I offer that humble bit of info on them. I know you are in the business of building and maintaining super computers though, so surely I am missing some facts, but from what I am seeing here in front of me, this is one of the most powerful computers I have had yet. (and it looks cool :d This screen is simply amazing. You have to see it to believe it. Reminds me of a small plasma tv screen).

One last note... No one in all the stores I went to would help me to get XP running in a computer. I had to pay Techs to install it into my lappie. That was $400.00. With HP, I tried desperately to get a 'drivers' disc from them for XP. I did all I could aside from having the techs install XP. I even tried it myself to install XP on the last media center I purchased and lost all my data on that HD.

But... on this Mac, it runs XP like lightning... XP installs on it with no problems. I now have a computer that I can load XP on in an emergency, myself, without having to go to the techs at BB. That is one of the main things I was looking for months ago and no computer company was offering it directly to the public except Apple. (EDIT: They (such as hp) do offer XP but on specially ordered business computers, not available in stores, not advertised, and not supported).



Bill

[kilo delta]

Bill.......was it Apple's MacPro that you were checking out? If so, that system runs dual Xeon procs, 800mhz DDR2 memory and a poor range of Graphics cards for a whopping $2,800! Definitely not value for money and definitely no match for a modern good spec Intel 45nm quad core or mid spec Nethalem based system running a single ATi HD48xx series card for a substantially lower price.
If you are willing to spend that amount of money...and do not want the hassle of a self build then I'd recommend that you look at Dell's XPS desktop range. Contrary to what a lot of people will tell you, the modern Dell desktops are extremely reliable and are relatively very good value for money.

:)

[Lionheart]

Bill.......was it Apple's MacPro that you were checking out? If so, that system runs dual Xeon procs, 800mhz DDR2 memory and a poor range of Graphics cards for a whopping $2,800! Definitely not value for money and definitely no match for a modern good spec Intel 45nm quad core or mid spec Nethalem based system running a single ATi HD48xx series card for a substantially lower price.
If you are willing to spend that amount of money...and do not want the hassle of a self build then I'd recommend that you look at Dell's XPS desktop range. Contrary to what a lot of people will tell you, the modern Dell desktops are extremely reliable and are relatively very good value for money.

:)

Thanks Kilo Delta,


I got the iMac Alum Flatscreen, not the laptop. Investment of $1600.00. I did upgrade the HD and RAM though.

Ive heard to many good things about them, and had been hanging out at the Apple website every night for an hour at a time, going through tutorials and things, watching their prices at Ebay, (which hold quite well, darnit). I was planning the jump to Apple for a while now. vista really sizzled me with MS. I need options.

Also, learning the new OSX is a bit like getting a new car, lol.. New controls, etc.

Its not the 'best' available. Its by my standards, one of the best computers I have ever owned. My last one was about 2 to 3 years ago, a hp Media Center. (Loved that one... regretted losing it).


EDIT: You know, I have to say that I dont think Apple is totally for people that like to go into their computers and upgrade everything. Now I am seeing that they are more open to this now, but they keep a high quality/reliability grade on their equipment, so putting in cheap parts is supposed to be a 'no no'. But putting in powerful upgrades I think they are pretty much doable to an extent now these days, (such as RAM, HD's, etc). I would be curious if this graphics card can come out, just out of curiosity.

So, for guys that like to play around by souping up parts, get a PC. For guys like me that need a computer out of a box, to run fast and be reliable, well, I chose this. I cant even install a darn GC or PSU without losing the darn thing... arrghh.. :banghead:



Bill

[kilo delta]

"I would be curious if this graphics card can come out, just out of curiosity. "

I've no experience of Macs but I'd imagine that changing the GFX should be no difficult than on a PC.

"For guys like me that need a computer out of a box, to run fast and be reliable, well, I chose this."

...or go with a good prebuilt PC :engel016: :)

[Kiwikat]

"For guys like me that need a computer out of a box, to run fast and be reliable, well, I chose this."

...or go with a good prebuilt PC :engel016: :)
:jump:

[txnetcop]

Bill I doubt that whatever facts I could quote you, it would change your thinking about PC units because of what you have experienced. I am honestly glad that you finally can enjoy FSX after all the things you have been through, even though I think many of the problems people suffer is self induced by buying inferior products to run a very complex and quirky software such as FSX. Amigo, unfortunately there are a lot of people out there like you who have suffered at the hands of poor off the shelf PCs and bad Tech advice or assistance. For that I am truly sorry for ya. I do believe that the more stable MAC platform is a big help for those who are not wanting to get a little techy with their PCs.

I have to deal in real facts when it comes to helping people with gaming units, not starry-eyed MAC hype. Someday MAC will have to address it's own limitations in power gaming if it wants the lion's share of the market. I don't know that is the road they are heading down...based on what is happening this year at their MACWorld Expo. There really is very little new gaming technology being introduced at the show according to Apple Insider. One thing MAC has done right recently was moving to the new Intel CPUs. I am waiting to see what benefit the new i7 Core brings to PowerMAC. I was hoping that would introduced this year but unfortunately all is quite.

Using 128 bit video cards is a no no if you want to get the absolute most out of FSX even if it has 1GB of RAM you are still crippling yourself. HP Interface is slow but with the advent of Blackbird it certainly got better, except for all the bloatware they put in it. MAC uses the ATI HD2600 video card which is good but not great for using FSX...now the thin 256 bit HD3870 for MAC is available but they charge and arm and leg for it. However it is a step forward. I still wonder why Apple walked away from Nvidia completely. the new i7 Core boards will allow for either ATI or Nvidia so I am looking forward to seeing that in the new MAC desktops.

Though MAC OS does allow 32GB so does Vista64 and so will Windows 7. In fact with Vista Ultimate I can use 128GB +, but that 32GB has no benefit if the application can't properly use it.

Currently COD4 on a PowerMAC is less than exciting compared to a decent, less expensive gaming PC. These games are GPU dependant not CPU like FSX although it does take a powerful CPU to push that memory useage.

I am a member at BAREFEATS, which is a MAC Site because I now do MAC repairs. I am hoping for a day when the bigger, better ATI and NVidia cards can be used in MAC desktops...even as an external unit. I have a very interesting design for a MAC Gamer that I think would sell like hotcakes at breakfast club.

For now MAC still doesn't cut it for the absolute best gaming, but I am hopeful that the day comes when it does. It will only expand my business interests.
However, sincere congrats on being able to finally run FSX.
Ted

[Lionheart]

Thanks Ted,


Its so awesome to be coming in on approach and see cars driving on the roads now. :d Just like real world flying. Finally I have this in FSX. (Ive had that option off since the release of FSX or I couldnt fly it).


Bill

[Ghostrider]

Hi guys, looks like I'll be answering my own question soon enough. I posted this over on NewsHawks in response to another thread:

Hi Bill.

After hearing me complain about Windows for the past few years, Santa (my Wife) surprised me with a MacBook Pro! My first Apple computer!!

Guys, I have to agree with Bill. The workmanship, look, feel and overall quality is way beyond any PC I have ever seen!! Including the custom, 'best of everything' (at the time) PC I built myself several years ago.

She (bless her heart!) made sure it was the newest version of Apples Macbook Pro series currently available and it has all the upgrades. This thing puts my ol' custom homebuilt PC to shame! I'm blown away a 'laptop' could be such a powerful little computer. It has an Intel Core 2 Duo 2.8GHz 1066MHz frontside bus with 6MB L2 Cache, 4GB 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM, Nvidia GeForce 9600 GT with 512MB of GDDR3 memory, 320GB Hard Drive and Apples newest OS X Leopard operating system, sheesh!

She even included a 500GB Time Capsule 802.11n Wi-Fi Hard Drive and a copy of made for MAC Call of Duty 4 Modern Warfare! (I gotta give the Sales person at the Apple store a big hug for suggesting to my wife that a video game would be good for learning about the new OS!) Which I promptly loaded up and watched in absolute amazement!! Cant wait to see FSX via Bootcamp on a remote widescreen monitor!!!

If anyone out there has thought about going the Apple MAC route rest assured you will not be dissapointed!


Codeseven
<!-- / message -->
Hi Codeseven,
Congratulations on getting a real computer! After being a PC man until about 2-1/2 years ago, I finally got sick of PC crap - you all know what I'm talking about errors, lockups, blue screens of death, and all of the other BS, I realized how many MONTHS of my life I had spent trying to get PCs to do what they should do without my intervention.

I run a Mac Pro with Boot camp - (included on OS Leopard) which I use to run Windows XP for one purpose only - games. Anything else - anything important or meaningful to you - use your Mac. Even on my "old" Mac Pro - I still get great framerates on FSX and all of the other 3-D games I run. Guess how many times I have had to "upgrade" my Mac Pro - Zero. How many times have I called tech support? Zero. Guess how much time and money I spend trying to ward off malware - Zero. That's on a 2-1/2 year old machine that I use for everything from flight sims to editing video/burning DVDs, web publishing - on and on.

Everything about the Mac is SOOOOO much better, smoother, more reliable. Stuff that would take hours/days/weeks with no success at the end on the PC takes 10 minutes and have a nice day on the Mac. I'd set up XP on your Boot Camp Virtual machine - Vista is crap, wanna-be a Mac OS. (I have to use it at work) Use that to run your games - everything else - forget Windows. You have gone from a beat up old Yugo to a Mercedes, my friend. I'm sure that like me, you'll never look back. People who talk junk about Macs have never used one for the most part, or if they did, it was long ago, before Intel chips could run Windows faster than most, if not all PCs for your games. OK, maybe (emphasis on maybe) Macs cost more than PCs. It's not a huge difference - the real question is this: How much is your LIFE worth? Is it worth an extra grand, say, to NOT spend the next 4 years of your life as a slave to a piece of crap machine that requires your constant tweeking, intervention, and babying just to get it to WORK PROPERLY? There's no question in my mind!

Good Luck and congrats!

Ghostrider

[Kiwikat]

I just don't know how to follow that... ROFLMAO

Maybe when I can breathe again... I'm just laughing too much.

Thanks for that bit Ghost... http://www.aximsite.com/boards/images/smilies/icon_rofl.gif

[Ghostrider]

Glad you enjoyed it, Kiwikat! Here's some more food for thought: Let's take the example of burning video onto DVDs to play in a DVD player. (Slightly OT, yes, but indulge me - my point will become clear) I spent literally years trying to do this on three different PCs from reputable manufacturers - (Dell and HP) and two different OSes. I got inside the boxes. I have 15 years of experience doing this on PCs - have upgraded, replaced or repaired every piece inside a PC in some form or another. I spared no expense, made every upgrade, bought every new software package and hardware peripheral that came out, to the tune of a couple grand, and guess what - I think I successfully burned 1 (ONE) DVD. (After the machine ran all night to do it). Normally, the next morning I would run downstairs and find an ejected DVD-R, and an "Unknown Error" message on the screen. This DVD-R is what we would call a "coaster" because it's only use is now holding cold drinks.

Fast forward to Mac Pro. As a 100% Mac virgin, within minutes, I had my video edited, and was putting my blank DVD-R into the burner. Ten minutes later, out pops perfection. A DVD that looked much more professional, and worked perfectly the first time, and every time thereafter. I was so happy I could have s$%t myself. Then I reflected on the money, and more importantly the TIME (I keep coming back to that) that I had WASTED on PCs, and it made me angry. What was that big "savings" with PCs? You saved a few hundred bucks, maybe? At what cost in lost time with your family, or doing other things that are important, meaningful and fulfilling to you? Just to make the damn thing work like it's supposed to? Am I missing something here? Computers should make your life simpler, not more complex. That is the paradigm that one must grasp to get one's head around adopting a Mac. Now that Macs can run windows (for games, the only thing Windows is worth owning for) I cannot imagine ever purchasing another PC for any reason.

Here's another tidbit: I have never opened the case of my Mac. Never had any desire to. In my world, when you open the case, it's for one reason: there's a problem. Framerates are getting too low, or something is broken. I guess if a person genuinely likes tinkering with PCs, and it's a hobby, go for it. Like I said, my Mac makes my life easier, more efficient and productive (and fun). We all know that PCs make life more complicated. If you want to drive a Mercedes - fast, strong, and reliable - get a Mac. If you want to drive a jalopy that you're always fixing - get a PC.

OK, I'll shut up now -

Ghostrider

[Butcherbird17]

Most problems with any PC or Mac are from the person behind the monitor.:typing: I know if I owned a Mac i'd find a way to break it.:wiggle: But that's me, I like to tinker.:kilroy:

Joe

[kilo delta]

Let's take the example of burning video onto DVDs to play in a DVD player. (Slightly OT, yes, but indulge me - my point will become clear) I spent literally years trying to do this on three different PCs from reputable manufacturers - (Dell and HP) and two different OSes. I got inside the boxes. I have 15 years of experience doing this on PCs - have upgraded, replaced or repaired every piece inside a PC in some form or another. I spared no expense, made every upgrade, bought every new software package and hardware peripheral that came out, to the tune of a couple grand, and guess what - I think I successfully burned 1 (ONE) DVD. (After the machine ran all night to do it). Normally, the next morning I would run downstairs and find an ejected DVD-R, and an "Unknown Error" message on the screen. This DVD-R is what we would call a "coaster" because it's only use is now holding cold drinks.


Ghostrider

Funny you should mention this. I'm an avid PC enthusiast and dabble from time to time in video editing. I recorded my youngest childs school Nativity play just before Christmas (by request of her teachers), uploaded it via firewire to my PC, edited it in Pinnacle Studio 12 with lots of transitions, dubbed on some music, made custom DVD menus and burnt off 25+ DVD's (without getting even one coaster) and all within one day! Each disc burnt off in less than 4 minutes.
If you had a problem burning off DVD's the issue was down to poor quality media (DVD-R) or a poor quality burner. :engel016:

[Ghostrider]

Funny you should mention this. I'm an avid PC enthusiast and dabble from time to time in video editing. I recorded my youngest childs school Nativity play just before Christmas (by request of her teachers), uploaded it via firewire to my PC, edited it in Pinnacle Studio 12 with lots of transitions, dubbed on some music, made custom DVD menus and burnt off 25+ DVD's (without getting even one coaster) and all within one day! Each disc burnt off in less than 4 minutes.
If you had a problem burning off DVD's the issue was down to poor quality media (DVD-R) or a poor quality burner. :engel016:

Like I said, my experience was over years with multiple PCs, OSes, burners, DVD-Rs, and every piece of software Pinnacle put out during that time. None of them was worth a crap. I have quite a collection of pinnacle software, add-ons, and hardware peripherals - you are more than welcome to all of it. Maybe they finally made it work. But they got all of of the time and money they're gonna get out of me. :wave:

Ghostrider

[Bjoern]

FSX - smooth, no stutters, 20FPS straight.
Cold start bug - gone (so far).
Blackbox - up and running again.
The lost 600Mbytes of Ram - screw them!


A clear case of taking the cute, nice girl next door over the hot, touchy super model from across the street.


*Hugs his customized XP x86 SP3*


Next stop: Windows 7.

[kilo delta]

@ Bjoern Glad you've managed to get your FSX up and running again.....now tweek it some more till it's broken again!:caked::kiss: :)


@ Ghostrider Hmm, I too have several years of experience of video editing with multiple PCs, OSes, burners, DVD-Rs, and every piece of software Pinnacle put out during that time as have a number of my colleagues and thousands of others who have not suffered in the same manner that you have.
If your problems weren't hardware or software related then I guess Butcherbird17 is right...........it must be pilot error. :whistle: :)

[Lionheart]

Hey Bjoern,

Good deal man. Glad its working again.


I am looking forward to making some movies (on the Kodiak for starters) and see how it is compared to MS Movie Maker. I have heard tons of good things on Mac for use with media creation (art, music, etc), so I am looking forward to it.


I share some of GhostRiders past incidences with PC's, especially with my last hp. I did have a Gateway many years ago, and dang if I never had to open that thing up to work on it. I put some memory in it and it just kept on going....


:focus:

My Mac runs FSX smooth, and I am pretty happy with it. I now seem to be running it in Mac mode for everything except FS, Gmax, Adobe Photoshop (I only have MS edition), and DXTBmp. :d



Bill

[n4gix]

Here's another tidbit: I have never opened the case of my Mac. Never had any desire to. In my world, when you open the case, it's for one reason: there's a problem.

One of these days, the buildup of dust inside is going to bite you...

Cleaning out the accumulated dust & debris should be at least an annual preventative maintenance procedure. :whistle:

[hinch]

I am looking forward to making some movies (on the Kodiak for starters) and see how it is compared to MS Movie Maker. I have heard tons of good things on Mac for use with media creation (art, music, etc), so I am looking forward to it.


MS Movie maker is easily surpassed by iMovie, it's a neat little program. iDVD can make some great little DVDs but it is a complete bugger for compatibility, it only likes a certain type of DVD that seems hard to come by. Having to write 4 or 5 of these a semester at uni I speak from keyboard bashing experience!

If you have iLife then Garage Band is pretty tidy, good fun - a bit like the old music games that came on the first Playstation.

iPhoto is OK, very similar to Google's Picasa but clunkier.

[codeseven]

Hi guys,

Allow me to give to expand a bit on my original post.

I too love to tinker and trying to make my PC's run faster and smoother soon became a hobby (actually, a necessity to keep up with newer games). After owning several PC's and tweaking the crap out of them to get every inch of performance, without satisfaction, I decided to build my own. I spent a couple of months researching components and educating myself. Then I bought the best components at the time and custom built my very own gaming PC who's components (mainly the motherboard) allowed for easy upgrading (faster CPU, SLI) as money allowed. It ran fast and smooth (the newest GPU was awesome, a 7800GTX!) and I was very proud of my accomplishment. It's still my main everyday home computer.

DFI LP NF4 SLI-DR (BIOS 623-3)
AMD Athlon 64 3700+ 939 90nm 1mb L2 cache
2GB (2x1GB) Crucial Ballistix Tracer PC4000
1-BFG GeForce 7800 GTX OC 256mb
WD 74 Gb SATA 10,000 rpm Raptor
NEC 3540A DVD RW
Mitsumi Floppy 7 in 1 USB Card Reader/Smart Media
Creative X-FI Fatality
PC Power & Cooling Turbo-Cool 510 SLI
Lian Li PC-60B Plus case
XP x64 Pro<!-- / message -->

It wasn't long after I built it however that the various familiar problems associated with owning a PC running Windows soon raised it's ugly head. Even though I constantly made sure all software updates, drivers, antivrus, chipsets, OS, defrag methods ect, ect, ect (seemingly neverending if you keep up with all of them!) were done on a daily bases, I still had problems and had to go thru several (that seems to me 'should' be unecessary, just like the constant need for updating so many things) re-installs of the OS. My wife heard my dissapointment rather loudly several times and could see my frustration in that my 'perfect', 'awesome' homebuilt PC was still having some of the same problems those other 'inferior' PC's we had in the past had.

One day while wandering thru a local mall I noticed a new store, an Apple store. So, out of curiosity I walked in to see what all the 'granola heads' were excited about. I left there amazed at the quality and workmanship of the products I had looked (at the time I didn't even own an iPod and wasn't interested in anything to do with that 'other' computer maker anyway) and the number of folks, from all walks of life, that filled the store. The help desk (Genius Bar) was full, not with angry people complaining about things not working but instead with what appeared to be rather happy folks having conversations about their new computers. There were very young children sitting around a table typing away, laughing and playing computer games, old folks buying laptops and more offers of 'can I help you' than any store I had ever been in.

I told my wife when I got home that day that when my computer finally craps out I 'might' just buy one of those 'Apple computers'. Over the next couple of years I pretty much blew off ever buying one because for the money I could just build another faster PC and just accept the occasional hassles associated with owning one.

Then came along this Christmas and my great surprise from 'Santa'. To be honest, I still dont want to know what she paid for it, the upgrades and accessories. But I gotta tell ya, so far, I love this thing!. I'm not going to repeat all the good things myself or others have said but take it from a die hard PC guy, they are all true!

Like I said, I like to tinker and try to make things faster. Apple may not allow me to do that so upgrading my ol' homebuilt PC may still be in the cards someday but for now I'm pretty damn happy.

Now, to use Bootcamp, get XP x32 and FSX installed and see how things look. If they are anything close to how Call of Duty 4 Modern Warfare looks and plays on this laptop I'm gonna be stoked!

Thanks for all the replies, I'll let you all know how it goes.


Codeseven

[Bjoern]

@ Bjoern Glad you've managed to get your FSX up and running again.....now tweek it some more till it's broken again!:caked::kiss: :)

As long as I *know* I broke it because I did *something*, I'm way more eager to fix it.

However, if there is a persistent problem in the first place, trying to find a solution is just like shooting a APFSDS* into a flock of birds...you might get your miracle hit, but mostly it's just a waste of time.


Well, off to defrag and then maybe continuing with Fallout 3 or going flying.



*Armour-Piercing Fin-Stabilized Discarding Sabot; basically a large tungsten pin usually fired in tank to tank combat; don't go boom, just pinch a hole in the turret or hull and asphyxiate the crew

[Lionheart]

I just went roving about on the web looking for info for the 'print screen' on the Mac keyboard when in Windows.

I found a couple of sites that were really interesting, mostly forums. One was called InsanelyMac which I had been to before, (last year, finding out that some kids were able to get Windows games running in Mac by installing DX, lol).

Anyways, there are all these people buying Mac keyboards and mice for PC's but cant find drivers, (they are out there, people are now posting them).

Then there are people making PC's and buying Mac OSX and putting that on them...

Then (yep, then) there are people buying the potent little Mac Book Pro's only to put windows on them.

So its like this huge mix of people merging PC with Mac, and some of the posts were pretty interesting.


Would be cool to get FSX to run in Mac, lol... I could handle that. I would be off to get 12 gigs or more of RAM, lol....


Thanks Hinch for the info on those programs. I think iLife now comes with most Macs, (its on this one).




Bill


EDIT: Print screen, when in Boot Camp / MS mode is F14. :rapture:

[Ghostrider]

Then came along this Christmas and my great surprise from 'Santa'. To be honest, I still dont want to know what she paid for it, the upgrades and accessories. But I gotta tell ya, so far, I love this thing!. I'm not going to repeat all the good things myself or others have said but take it from a die hard PC guy, they are all true!

Like I said, I like to tinker and try to make things faster. Apple may not allow me to do that so upgrading my ol' homebuilt PC may still be in the cards someday but for now I'm pretty damn happy.

Now, to use Bootcamp, get XP x32 and FSX installed and see how things look. If they are anything close to how Call of Duty 4 Modern Warfare looks and plays on this laptop I'm gonna be stoked!

Thanks for all the replies, I'll let you all know how it goes.


Codeseven

It's a great concept, isn't it? A computer that just works reliably without constant updates/upgrades/patches/fixes/rebuilds/redos/errors/
malware/crapware/protection money for Norton, McAfee, etc... :applause:

Now that Macs can run your PC games, the PC crowd is just wasting your time trying to make and keep your machines running. You all know very well what I'm talking about.

Maybe you're afraid of change, or of having to learn a new OS interface. Maybe you're just closed-minded about the "other" computer manufacturer. But as 15 year PC devotee, I will say once again that "Once you go Mac, you'll never go back."

Obviously, everyone here can and will do whatever they choose with their own money and time.

My point is that when you find yourself (once again) wanting to throw your PC out the window, there is a better way. I wouldn't even own the Windows OS anymore, except to play games on. Period.

I think you can see a pattern here from those of us who have made the change. We are very pleased with our Macs, and wouldn't go back to Windows if you paid us.

Do what you want - but I have been on both side of this fence - most of you have not. I like the side I'm on now a whole lot better.

And no, I don't buy the "Operator error" argument - video editing/burning software is not complex. Let's not pretend that it takes a computer guru to do. It doesn't. It's quite simple to install and use, actually. I am oh, about 100% certain that I did everything right, and I tried a myriad of suggestions from various sources. I have used, built my own, and maintained PCs since 286 days. (1990) I know PCs inside and out. I have a doctoral degree. I am not anyone's dummy when it comes to computers. Of all the software, hardware, OSes and various platforms I tried, they were all unreliable junk. There are internet communities/fora to attest to the fact that I am not the only person who had these same problems. That's the thing with PCs - they are hit and miss - sometimes they work great, sometimes they don't. For my money, give me something that works.

I look at it like this - if a person doesn't mind constant tinkering and dealing with the frustrations, - I guess a PC can work for you. Certainly your choice. That's just not my idea of what a computer is there for - to give us something to do, i.e. fix it. It should be there to enable us to do the good things that computers can do.

Just my opinion, and I know there are strong opinions on both sides of this debate. I'm just one who has seen both sides, and hope to shed some light for some folks who haven't.

"Change is good - You go first"

I made the change, and I'm very glad - will never go back. I'm committed to people who try to do a better job than the rest of the crowd/"build a better mousetrap". I understand that a lot of the problem with Pcs is the various manufacturers of hardware all cobbled together that were never built to be used together causing a lot of incompatibilities and problems. A wise man once said "If you want to make software that runs well, you'd better also make the hardware to run it." That's pretty much what Mac does with both hardware and software. They make sure it all works together from the ground up.

Sorry for the long rant, everyone do what works for you, by all means, I'm just sharing my own personal experience over many years.

The good news is, PCs and Macs are getting more and more compatible, as Lionheart has just pointed out. Someday this discussion will be moot. (And I'll still be running a Mac) :typing:

GR

[Bjoern]

If you're just looking for an alternative OS: Unix distributions. Mostly free, so no pain at all if you don't like it.

[Ghostrider]

First to admit, Unix is something I know next to nothing about. Can you run it instead of windows? Muhuhuhuhhahahaha (diabolical laughter) How would it do with 3-D games?

The only thing I wish my Mac would do that it doesn't (yet) is SLI multi -GPU rendering. I have 2 128MB video cards installed, but I gather when I run Windows in Boot Camp, only one is being used. Did I see somewhere else in this thread that SLI is in the works? That would instantly double my VRAM. I've been watching for this.

GR

[Bjoern]

Unix OSes can run next to Windows in a dual-boot environment (or in a virtual PC), but DirectX is only supported via emulators which make them a rather bad base for gaming.

[Lionheart]

Unix OSes can run next to Windows in a dual-boot environment (or in a virtual PC), but DirectX is only supported via emulators which make them a rather bad base for gaming.

I was reading last year in a Mac forum (maybe 'insanelymac') of how some kids found a certain game that installs DX. Then they were able to get games working in it that were previously Windows based. I dont remember which games, but they were running.

I wonder how far they have got on that. Would be interesting to know. I would love to see FS9 running on this in Mac mode. If it can run FSX smoothly in WinXP, I wonder how it would fair in Mac...


One of the 'buffer' programs that enable Windows based programs to work is called 'Wine'. Another is CrossOver. I heard that CrossOver will not run FSX or FS9 in OSX. Wine though I havent checked on in a year..

(not the bottled kind mind you). oops :kilroy:



Bill

[airfighterjohn]

I have a two year old HP Pavilion A1730N with AMD64x2 4600 2.4G Dual Core 4G PC 4200 RAM and a 512MB nVidia 8500 GT video card running what was probably one of the first Vista releases (now upgraded to SP1), with 2 HDDS totaling 570G. Other than early driver problems to make earlier apps compatible I have NEVER had any major problems with this machine, other than a dead dvd burner. I have been running both FS9 and FSX with very few problems. FSX took sp1 to really take off though. I have my frame rates locked on FSX at 35 and unless i am in a really congested area, my frame rates stay at 35 on fsx. On fs9 I have frame rates set to unlimited and I get 70-100fps. On FSX all settings are maxed except autogen which is set to very high and water which is set to 2. I run ASX and adobe traffic onfsx and AS6 and adobe traffic on FS9. When I first booted Vista I removed ALL the crapware put on by HP. Never had major probs, but I plan on upgrading with tax refund to a quad core with faster ram. Now that Vista is getting pretty mainstream and machines out here are now powerful enough to run it without major strains it seems to be a pretty good OS (IMHO). Wifey has one machine with similar specs but running XP and there is no noticible difference in performance, except for the lack of DX10. Was I lucky or what???:typing:

[harleyman]

I ate an apple once......

I ate a big Mac too..

But I never had a Mac computer or used one for that matter....

So I can't say much about this....

[txnetcop]

It's a great concept, isn't it? A computer that just works reliably without constant updates/upgrades/patches/fixes/rebuilds/redos/errors/
malware/crapware/protection money for Norton, McAfee, etc... :applause:

Now that Macs can run your PC games, the PC crowd is just wasting your time trying to make and keep your machines running. You all know very well what I'm talking about.

Maybe you're afraid of change, or of having to learn a new OS interface. Maybe you're just closed-minded about the "other" computer manufacturer. But as 15 year PC devotee, I will say once again that "Once you go Mac, you'll never go back."

Obviously, everyone here can and will do whatever they choose with their own money and time.

My point is that when you find yourself (once again) wanting to throw your PC out the window, there is a better way. I wouldn't even own the Windows OS anymore, except to play games on. Period.

I think you can see a pattern here from those of us who have made the change. We are very pleased with our Macs, and wouldn't go back to Windows if you paid us.

Do what you want - but I have been on both side of this fence - most of you have not. I like the side I'm on now a whole lot better.

And no, I don't buy the "Operator error" argument - video editing/burning software is not complex. Let's not pretend that it takes a computer guru to do. It doesn't. It's quite simple to install and use, actually. I am oh, about 100% certain that I did everything right, and I tried a myriad of suggestions from various sources. I have used, built my own, and maintained PCs since 286 days. (1990) I know PCs inside and out. I have a doctoral degree. I am not anyone's dummy when it comes to computers. Of all the software, hardware, OSes and various platforms I tried, they were all unreliable junk. There are internet communities/fora to attest to the fact that I am not the only person who had these same problems. That's the thing with PCs - they are hit and miss - sometimes they work great, sometimes they don't. For my money, give me something that works.

I look at it like this - if a person doesn't mind constant tinkering and dealing with the frustrations, - I guess a PC can work for you. Certainly your choice. That's just not my idea of what a computer is there for - to give us something to do, i.e. fix it. It should be there to enable us to do the good things that computers can do.

Just my opinion, and I know there are strong opinions on both sides of this debate. I'm just one who has seen both sides, and hope to shed some light for some folks who haven't.

"Change is good - You go first"

I made the change, and I'm very glad - will never go back. I'm committed to people who try to do a better job than the rest of the crowd/"build a better mousetrap". I understand that a lot of the problem with Pcs is the various manufacturers of hardware all cobbled together that were never built to be used together causing a lot of incompatibilities and problems. A wise man once said "If you want to make software that runs well, you'd better also make the hardware to run it." That's pretty much what Mac does with both hardware and software. They make sure it all works together from the ground up.

Sorry for the long rant, everyone do what works for you, by all means, I'm just sharing my own personal experience over many years.

The good news is, PCs and Macs are getting more and more compatible, as Lionheart has just pointed out. Someday this discussion will be moot. (And I'll still be running a Mac) :typing:

GR

In order to be fair and balanced, I think the other side needs representation from someone is not only a PC builder but a MAC repairman. This in not just a strong opinion I am a Mac Repair center.... However I have followed the mindless MAC hype long enough:

(1) Thank God they finally went to Intel instead of their lousy own processor and boards-becoming more like a PC ya know.

(2)They are very stable work platforms but are lacking sadly still in the gaming area-very slow on most of the new games including FSX

(3)Still do not allow for use of the newer, better video cards for gaming

(4)Macs break down just like any other computer

(5)Mac attacks are becoming more prevalent...fortunately not from exe attacks but much more subtle and sophisticated-I knew those creeps would get around to MAC they were just waiting for more popularity

(6)You seem to know very little tech information about PCs. Most of the PCs are stable platforms but just like MAC some of them are real stinkers...oh BTW those are the MACs I get. It's called Quality Control and your MAC parts are now made in RED China just like all our other INTEL Parts

(7) I can run Leopard on my custom PC and it didn't cost nearly as much

(8) My custom built system is half the price of your MAC and will run circles around your Mac

(9) My unit will read Leopard without any conversion software, XP, Vista, and Windows 7 Beta how about yours?

I could go on, but here is a little reading you can do to de-program yourself
http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Apple

Now in defense of MAC. I am hopeful that they will address the gaming market with better boards and video cards, but they must deal with the way their system read memory in order to get into the i7 Core area. This will require new Intel technology and they can stll use their OS which I believe is superior to Vista-however Windows 7 will be a strong contender. I saw nothing in the MACEXPO news or Apple Insider that shows they have moved in that area this time.

My wife has a MacBook PRO with the new 9600M Nvidia card which I like very much. I have recommended it to several people because I believe it is the Gold Standard in notebook computing (8 hours of raw computing on a battery) but it is also out of reach pricewise for most people especially in this economy as are their desk units. It still runs games slower than a PC equivalent notebook with the same video card!

Mac has worked so hard at being a status symbol of late that they forgot the original dream. I know because I was johnny come lately in the original Homebrew Club(1976 for me). I lived and worked in Silicon Valley from 1976-1986 and moved to Livermore, CA-guess what is in Livermore) and worked with guys like Captain Crunch (John Draper), Lee Felsenstein-one of the designers of the 8080 "SOL" processor from Processor Technology. In other words I didn't just fall off the turnip truck and become a builder!

Yuppie MacHype took over the dream in the 90s and created a monster-an expensive over-hyped monster. There is room for both PC and MAC they each have their best functions. You better pray that PCs are around for a long time so that MAC stays on its toes. Sorry you had such a bad experience, and I am so happy you are happy but before you go throwing rocks at PCs you should have learned something about them first.
Happy days
Ted

[Lionheart]

Did you guys hear about the new MacBook Pro 17inch Lappie?

* Thinnest Screen and thinnest casing yet in a 17inch lappie
* New technology battery, lasts 8 hours, new record for any 17inch lappie
* New battery lasts 3X longer then the average battery, extending the life of a battery for the new MBP by 2 to 3 years.
* New battery is a new design shaped like flat wafers, which enabled the designers to fit more battery into a smaller area, enabling them to make the casing as thin as it is.

:typing:


Bill

[Wiens]

Did you guys hear about the new MacBook Pro 17inch Lappie?

* Thinnest Screen and thinnest casing yet in a 17inch lappie
* New technology battery, lasts 8 hours, new record for any 17inch lappie
* New battery lasts 3X longer then the average battery, extending the life of a battery for the new MBP by 2 to 3 years.
* New battery is a new design shaped like flat wafers, which enabled the designers to fit more battery into a smaller area, enabling them to make the casing as thin as it is.

:typing:


Bill

All for a "starting" price of $2799! Too rich for my blood.

Kevin

[kilo delta]

Battery life on my 17" M9700 and M9750 notebooks is ~ 1/1.5 hrs:faint:, though to be fair they are not a laptop per se....more a desktop replacement.:)

[harleyman]

All for a "starting" price of $2799! Too rich for my blood.

Kevin

Come on Kevin...You can't take it with you....:woot:

[Wiens]

Come on Kevin...You can't take it with you....:woot:


Harley,

You're right; but ya gotta have it first!! :costumes:

Kevin

[MCDesigns]

THANK YOU TED for the reality check and the rebuttal. :amen:

(My GF is laughing at me while she types on her Mac, her loss, LOL.)

[Lionheart]

(My GF is laughing at me while she types on her Mac, her loss, LOL.)



LOLOL.... Oh man Michael.. In the end, they win...... :kilroy: :typing:



Bill

[djscoo]

Check This out...lol
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?t=7589

[Kiwikat]

All for a "starting" price of $2799! Too rich for my blood.

Wow... you could build 3 decent FSX towers for that much...:caked:

Thanks for the representation, Ted :engel016:

[Lionheart]

Check This out...lol
http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?t=7589

That was pretty funny, lol...

* Hummingbird battery now with 45 min's of operating time before recharge is needed
* Several hundred wheel operations (keys) to type in an email to a friend
* $3,000.00 price tag


:faint: :ernae:

[ColoKent]

....I have been debating going the Mac route for the last six months. Lemme tell you-- it isn't a debate anymore in my mind....I'm saving up to make the change to Mac.

PCs seem to me like Bill Gates' science fair project gone out of control (and I say this as a person who runs machines with both Vista and XP...and they have run pretty doggone well over the years, so I don't have a particular axe to grind there).

The Macs are well thought out and engineered-- much less of a "kluge job" than PCs and Windows [expecially Vista], in my opinion.

The only thing I can say to those who have (repeatedly) pointed out how comparatively expensive the Macs are versus PCs is "Yeah, you're right. And BMWs Z4s are more expensive than Toyota Corollas-- what's your point?" If you can't afford a Mac, then don't buy one-- but I wouldn't knock someone else based on how they choose to spend their money.

I wish we could have a logical technical discussion on this. Personally, I like what those on this board who are flying FSX on the Mac have to say.

It's interesting how polarized people get on this topic-- not just on this board, but EVERYWHERE.

Cheers,

Kent

[Lionheart]

Does this look a bit 'Star Trek TNG' to you guys?



:d

[txnetcop]

....I have been debating going the Mac route for the last six months. Lemme tell you-- it isn't a debate anymore in my mind....I'm saving up to make the change to Mac.

PCs seem to me like Bill Gates' science fair project gone out of control (and I say this as a person who runs machines with both Vista and XP...and they have run pretty doggone well over the years, so I don't have a particular axe to grind there).

The Macs are well thought out and engineered-- much less of a "kluge job" than PCs and Windows [expecially Vista], in my opinion.

The only thing I can say to those who have (repeatedly) pointed out how comparatively expensive the Macs are versus PCs is "Yeah, you're right. And BMWs Z4s are more expensive than Toyota Corollas-- what's your point?" If you can't afford a Mac, then don't buy one-- but I wouldn't knock someone else based on how they choose to spend their money.

I wish we could have a logical technical discussion on this. Personally, I like what those on this board who are flying FSX on the Mac have to say.

It's interesting how polarized people get on this topic-- not just on this board, but EVERYWHERE.

Cheers,

Kent

Kent I understand where you are coming from, which I why I responded to the wild-eye fanaticism that seems to come with MAC ownership. I represent both camps. I want MAC to succeed as they are a part of my income. I not only repair but help with setup and answer help desk questions at times, but like said APPLE betrayed those of us who believed in the original dream that the WOZ and JOBS had promised in the beginning...that was to provide the simplest to use, least expensive platform for the common user.

There is nothing in an Apple better engineered that you can get on a custom PC...that is the truth. IF you build the custom PC yourself you will beat Apple prices by a large margin and have a PC you should not have to crack the case on. Mine is 4 months old and never been opened or down-except to add an E8600 processor-try doing that on a MAC. My wife's is over a year and never been opened or down.

The other problem with MAC is that it is still not ready for prime-time gaming. I run FSX with all sliders right except autogen at very dense and maintain 40 fps (36fps solid in a storm over New York-I posted those pictures on here) you can't even come close to that in a MAC. I play CRYSIS at 80fps, you are lucky if you can reach 40 in a MAC. For the price you pay it is no smoother than a well built custom unit that cost a lot less. I have told APPLE at the tech conferences over and over again that if they want to capture the market they have got to address gaming on a wide scale-they just continue appealing to yuppies who, by the way, now no longer have the money to support their APPLE habit.

-Allow people to open their box and change out parts
-Make high-end processors available for the masses
-Make high-end video cards(SLI and CROSSFIRE) available even if it is external-that one really chaps thier arse because it takes away from their stupid idea of simplicity. My God you can unplug and go back to simple and play chess!:karate:
-Forgot this one-Open up to third party vendors-NOW

Trying to talk to Apple from a tech standpoint is hopelsss they have made up their minds in the direction they are going. Why pay their riduculous prices for a system that doesn't do as well gaming as a lower priced home built unit? Sometimes I'd like to take an i-ERASER and clean out the marketing and engineering departments!
Ted

[Kiwikat]

The Macs are well thought out and engineered-- much less of a "kluge job" than PCs and Windows [expecially Vista], in my opinion.

The only thing I can say to those who have (repeatedly) pointed out how comparatively expensive the Macs are versus PCs is "Yeah, you're right. And BMWs Z4s are more expensive than Toyota Corollas-- what's your point?" If you can't afford a Mac, then don't buy one-- but I wouldn't knock someone else based on how they choose to spend their money.

I just started college again yesterday and all of the computers there had XP on them... ugh. I know how much I really like Vista Ultimate now. XP feels like its 8 years old. Oh wait, it is!

Even better, I didn't see a single mac in the entire building including the IT department and all the computer labs... that was a relief.

ColoKent, your car analogy would work if it were true. There's nothing more fancy or better about a Mac, it just simply costs more. Not affording it isn't a reason for me not to get one. Its inferior and aged parts, lack of software support, and even its move to Intel are reasons I'd never even consider them. If I want an Intel machine, I'll put windows and linux on it, play the latest games, have access to something that ISN'T windows, get better performance, and save a ton of money.

I've read every word the mac supporters say and I STILL don't see a reason to buy one. Not a single real reason. I guess I'm missing something? I don't understand the sophistication of the mac? I'm trying to be open too, but no one has presented a single good AND TRUE reason to buy a mac over a "PC".

I don't know what it is, but I'm not getting it.:help:

[Wiens]

There is nothing in an Apple better engineered that you can get on a custom PC...that is the truth. IF you build the custom PC yourself you will beat Apple prices by a large margin and have a PC you should not have to crack the case on. Mine is 4 months old and never been opened or down-except to add an E8600 processor-try doing that on a MAC. My wife's is over a year and never been opened or down.

For the price you pay it is no smoother than a well built custom unit that cost a lot less. I have told APPLE at the tech conferences over and over again that if they want to capture the market they have got to address gaming on a wide scale-they just continue appealing to yuppies who, by the way, now no longer have the money to support their APPLE habit.


Why pay their riduculous prices for a system that doesn't do as well gaming as a lower priced home built unit? Sometimes I'd like to take an i-ERASER and clean out the marketing and engineering departments!
Ted

Love the iERASER comment, Ted!!:amen:

I can say the same about my homebuilt PC's. I haven't had to open them except to make sure they're clean from dust particles and cat hair. (My wife has a cat that resides inside our house during the cold days and nights of winter!)

I view Macs the same as Starbucks; overpriced comfort computers. :d

Kevin

[Wh61]

Love the iERASER comment, Ted!!:amen:

I can say the same about my homebuilt PC's. I haven't had to open them except to make sure they're clean from dust particles and cat hair. (My wife has a cat that resides inside our house during the cold days and nights of winter!)

I view Macs the same as Starbucks; overpriced comfort computers. :d

Kevin

Heres how I see this issue. Ted has built 3 computers for me and I have never had to go inside the box, except to keep them clean as Wiens said. I have one computer that is over a year old and another that is 9 months old. There performance is is outstanding. So as I see it if it aint broke dont fix it. I beleive that Ted gave the best and as a former pilot , I expect my Flight Sims to perform at a high level. Mine do just that and I will just open the box and make sure they are clean. Time to go flying.

[Lionheart]

Kent I understand where you are coming from, which I why I responded to the wild-eye fanaticism that seems to come with MAC ownership. I represent both camps. I want MAC to succeed as they are a part of my income. I not only repair but help with setup and answer help desk questions at times, but like said APPLE betrayed those of us who believed in the original dream that the WOZ and JOBS had promised in the beginning...that was to provide the simplest to use, least expensive platform for the common user.

There is nothing in an Apple better engineered that you can get on a custom PC...that is the truth. IF you build the custom PC yourself you will beat Apple prices by a large margin and have a PC you should not have to crack the case on. Mine is 4 months old and never been opened or down-except to add an E8600 processor-try doing that on a MAC. My wife's is over a year and never been opened or down.

The other problem with MAC is that it is still not ready for prime-time gaming. I run FSX with all sliders right except autogen at very dense and maintain 40 fps (36fps solid in a storm over New York-I posted those pictures on here) you can't even come close to that in a MAC. I play CRYSIS at 80fps, you are lucky if you can reach 40 in a MAC. For the price you pay it is no smoother than a well built custom unit that cost a lot less. I have told APPLE at the tech conferences over and over again that if they want to capture the market they have got to address gaming on a wide scale-they just continue appealing to yuppies who, by the way, now no longer have the money to support their APPLE habit.

-Allow people to open their box and change out parts
-Make high-end processors available for the masses
-Make high-end video cards(SLI and CROSSFIRE) available even if it is external-that one really chaps thier arse because it takes away from their stupid idea of simplicity. My God you can unplug and go back to simple and play chess!:karate:
-Forgot this one-Open up to third party vendors-NOW

Trying to talk to Apple from a tech standpoint is hopelsss they have made up their minds in the direction they are going. Why pay their riduculous prices for a system that doesn't do as well gaming as a lower priced home built unit? Sometimes I'd like to take an i-ERASER and clean out the marketing and engineering departments!
Ted



Lovin my Mac. :d Runs FSX... All is well.


:rapture:


Bill

[codeseven]

Aaarg! As the OP, I was leary of posting this 'FSX on a MAC' question, even here. It's almost impossible to mention Mac on a predominatly PC Forum or just the opposite without the pitchforks and nooses coming out. It always starts out nice but has a tendency to deteriate to a 'my 'computers bigger than yours' contest.

Both 'sides' (it's unfortunate that sides end up being taken among a group with a common interest) make good points and it's great to hear from experienced (I'm not gonna use the word 'experts' to avoid more trouble) computer users that can give us all good insight. Unfortunatly, personal experience can bring with it personal bias and maybe even a chip on the shoulder or two (at least thats the way it comes across when read) which intern has a tendency to lessen the validity of a post from a readers point of view.

Just to be clear, I like PC's. Maybe because I like to tinker and try to make things faster . I had a great time building my own custom PC and it turned out pretty darn nice for the most part but I cant say it doesn't suffer from many of the same hassles a PC owner has to deal with. It's 3 yrs old now with all the original components and it's still my main home computer so I must have learned enough to at least pick compatable parts.

But, I've also been curious about all the Apple hype. Not just from cheesy commercials but from regular folks that own one, my neighbor, a brother in law, guys at work. Like I said, an unplanned stop into a new Apple store left me genuinely impressed. But the prices, yikes! (I still dont want to know what my wife paid for this thing) Theres no argument that for what one of these costs you could build a much more powerful gaming PC.

Speaking of which, I also have to agree that , so far, there's no MAC that I know of that can beat a PC for gaming. My new Macbook Pro is way ahead of my old custom PC as far as specs go...

PC:
CPU:AMD Athlon 64 3700+ 939 90nm 1mb L2 cache
GPU:1-BFG GeForce 7800 GTX OC 256mb
Memory:2GB (2x1GB) Crucial Ballistix Tracer PC4000

Macbook Pro:
CPU:Intel Core 2 Duo 2.8GHz 1066MHz frontside bus with 6MB L2 Cache
GPU:Nvidia GeForce 9600 GT with 512MB of GDDR3 memory
Memory:4GB 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM

So there should be a big difference in gaming for me (we'll find out when XP arrives in the mail). Never thought a 'notebook' (much less, a Mac!) could ever stomp all over my custom PC. But I know right well I could rebuild my ol' PC today with components much, much faster and maybe some day I will.

I'm glad I now have a Mac, I'm very impressed with it's workmanship, smooth interface and ease of use but I wont be getting rid of my PC because of it. I expect it will play FSX just fine (COD 4 Modern Warfare looks/plays freak'in awesome!), Apple has made huge strides towards gameability, but, PC's are still king in the gaming world.

Thanks for all the replies, and I'll leave it at that.


Codeseven

[kilo delta]

Congrats and best wishes to Codeseven, Lionheart, Ghostrider and all of the other Mac users that are enjoying their FSX experience. I'd be the first to admit that I have no experience of Apple's products whatsoever. I work for a company who build gaming computers that are on the "bleeding edge" of technology and there isn't a Mac in sight:kilroy::whistle::engel016:.
Both platforms have their own merits, but we would be wise to accept their shortcomings too. If you need a gaming platform then , as of this moment, PC's cannot be beaten. If you need to burn a DVD....then get a Mac (unless you can wait a few years to burn one off using a PC, obviously) ;):d

[ColoKent]

I've reconsidered. Since someone on this board pointed out that Macs are "Yuppie" computers, I won't be getting one after all. God forbid anyone think I'm a yuppie-- that's what motivates me...someone trying to make their point by resorting to name calling. Nice try.

I didn't post here to convert people to Mac...I don't currently own a Mac, and I don't dislike PCs. I do however, like the Mac interface-- and I can afford to buy it (Sorry if you are one of those who can't-- look at the bright side: "Change" is on the way--BHO style). I also like Starbuck's-- and I can afford to buy those too-- a lot of 'em as a matter of fact.

I don't care who uses PCs on this board (and if they are happy with them, more power to them), and I don't care who uses Macs (and if they are happy with their machines, more power to them, TOO)-- I don't lend much credence to those who say that one is "better" than the other...I think it just depends on the application and your personal preferences.

I'll readily agree that FSX most likely runs better on a PC. I am intrigued however, at the possibility of getting 25-30 FPS on a Mac-- because I do many, many other things on my computer besides fly FSX. And I'm willing to get 25-30 FPS in FSX on the Mac, in order to have an enjoyable experience using the Mac for other things.

Cheers,

Kent

P.S. Does anyone know where I can get a good latte and biscotti tonight? Heh heh

[txnetcop]

I've reconsidered. Since someone on this board pointed out that Macs are "Yuppie" computers, I won't be getting one after all. God forbid anyone think I'm a yuppie-- that's what motivates me...someone trying to make their point by resorting to name calling. Nice try.

I didn't post here to convert people to Mac...I don't currently own a Mac, and I don't dislike PCs. I do however, like the Mac interface-- and I can afford to buy it (Sorry if you are one of those who can't-- look at the bright side: "Change" is on the way--BHO style). I also like Starbuck's-- and I can afford to buy those too-- a lot of 'em as a matter of fact.

I don't care who uses PCs on this board (and if they are happy with them, more power to them), and I don't care who uses Macs (and if they are happy with their machines, more power to them, TOO)-- I don't lend much credence to those who say that one is "better" than the other...I think it just depends on the application and your personal preferences.

I'll readily agree that FSX most likely runs better on a PC. I am intrigued however, at the possibility of getting 25-30 FPS on a Mac-- because I do many, many other things on my computer besides fly FSX. And I'm willing to get 25-30 FPS in FSX on the Mac, in order to have an enjoyable experience using the Mac for other things.

Cheers,

Kent

P.S. Does anyone know where I can get a good latte and biscotti tonight? Heh heh

Kent I am not surprised you would try to malign me and say that I called you a yuppie, reread the post and this time without all the emotion. I could care less that you are getting MAC, all I was doing was pointing out both sides of the equation as I not only have access to MACs but repair same. The choice is yours and you will not be maligned for it. We welcome debate in this forum. You're supposed to be an adult and you wanted logical debate and you got it. It should not become emotional. Have a latte on me:ernae:
Ted

[Wiens]

I'm the one that brought up the Starbucks analogy and therefore the migration to an accusation of being a "yuppie"!

:focus:


Kevin

PS. My brother-in-law is a Mac fanatic and he is a yuppie.............:d

[Lionheart]

Hey, I dont mind being called a yuppie.. They seem to have level heads on their shoulders and I think alot of them are probably into being pilots and other high asperations in life.

Lets not let this get out of hand. :focus:



Bill

[Lionheart]

By the way, to clear up something. They are indeed designed to be worked on, and this one is deisgned for extreme simplicity of it. No wires in the way, etc. Everything is 'slots' and full access. Note the row of HD's along the top, and the RAM chambers at the bottom, (2) with a capacity of 32 Gigs of DDR3 RAM.

From what I understand, its all 'snap in' or uses those finger tightened 'textured' screws.

This is one of my next goals, the G5 tower.

[ColoKent]

If anyone with a Mac wants to PM and talk about their experience, that would be great-- I would love to hear about it.

Later,

Kent

[SkippyBing]

I still can't see the point of buying a Mac to play Windows games on. If all I wanted to do was use Office type stuff with some Video and Photo editing, then sure the extra cost might be worth it for the Operating System, but if I was to get one for my primary usage i.e. FSX, gMax, gaming and video editing etc. then I'd essentially be paying over the odds for a swanky looking PC that's more expensive to upgrade.
One example I've seen was a comparison between upgrading a Mac Pro to it's full memory capability, from Apple it was going to cost ~$9000 vs ~$1400 for identical memory from a third party vendor. I don't begrudge other people spending their money on stuff if they want, but I have better uses for mine.
As for better reliability etc. a colleague brought a Mac Book last year to go to see with, it now looks less than prisitine, what with white being a crap colour to keep clean, and various keys don't work. I remember another guy on one of my ships who was missing a number of keys off his less than 12 months old Mac Book. Meanwhile my two year old Toshiba is running fine and looks as good as it did when I got it.
Similarly my iPod touch randomly resets or plays silly buggers far more often than my PC to the extent I had to reset the thing and reload all my music last week.

[Lionheart]

I still can't see the point of buying a Mac to play Windows games on. If all I wanted to do was use Office type stuff with some Video and Photo editing, then sure the extra cost might be worth it for the Operating System, but if I was to get one for my primary usage i.e. FSX, gMax, gaming and video editing etc. then I'd essentially be paying over the odds for a swanky looking PC that's more expensive to upgrade.
One example I've seen was a comparison between upgrading a Mac Pro to it's full memory capability, from Apple it was going to cost ~$9000 vs ~$1400 for identical memory from a third party vendor. I don't begrudge other people spending their money on stuff if they want, but I have better uses for mine.
As for better reliability etc. a colleague brought a Mac Book last year to go to see with, it now looks less than prisitine, what with white being a crap colour to keep clean, and various keys don't work. I remember another guy on one of my ships who was missing a number of keys off his less than 12 months old Mac Book. Meanwhile my two year old Toshiba is running fine and looks as good as it did when I got it.
Similarly my iPod touch randomly resets or plays silly buggers far more often than my PC to the extent I had to reset the thing and reload all my music last week.


Bummer.

My iPod has been doing pretty good. I did fill it up though and that caused some issues for a few days. I reloaded it with less movies on it and it was fine again.



Bill

[Lionheart]

Something that has totally taken me by surprise has happened with getting this iMac.

With all my past computers, it was taking me 20 min's to compile a FS9 model in Gmax/MakeMDL. (20 min's!!!). When my last PC fried after installing a PSU and GC, I got this iMac. Recently, I started compiling models again, getting back into my workflow. This darn thing compiles models in 2 min's. I timed it..! I thought maybe they were exterior models only, or the compiler was malfunctioning..

Tested everything to make sure......

2 min's to compile...!

So I guess it is true that the more powerful the CPU (or GPU) is, the faster the compiler will run.. (For the past several years, they have always averaged 20 min's on a nearly finished to finished model with tons of mesh being right at the limit).


I thought I would share that.


Bill

[SkippyBing]

Bill,
How long does it take to compile an FSX model?
I've never really compiled FS9 models on any of my machines, apart from the Ark Royal but that only involved running an x file through MakeMDL and never took that long.
The iPod was quite a bummer as I was on the ski slopes at the time and had to go without music for the day after spending the bus ride making the ultimate skiing playlist!

[Lionheart]

Bill,
How long does it take to compile an FSX model?
I've never really compiled FS9 models on any of my machines, apart from the Ark Royal but that only involved running an x file through MakeMDL and never took that long.
The iPod was quite a bummer as I was on the ski slopes at the time and had to go without music for the day after spending the bus ride making the ultimate skiing playlist!


With FSX, 10 to 30 seconds. I have never seen it go a full min. Awesome compiler... I am glad they redid it with SP1a. It is now a Lamborghini of compilers..


On the iPod failing on a ski trip... tripple arrghhh! Man, that would be a major bummer...



Bill

[Kiwikat]

Now to mention the bits that the mac guys really seem to be avoiding...

I guess lets start out with the actual product page of that G5 Bill was bragging about.

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd141/whippetstorm/mac1.jpg

Now lets see here... 2800 USD... OK, it must have a top of the line processor, 8 GB DDR3 ram, 2 of the best graphics cards on the market, and a few hard drives in RAID.

Wait what?
2 2.8 GHz Xeon processors? Xeon? Don't servers use those?
2! GB DDR2! ram?
ATI 2600! LOL!
1, yes 1 320 GB 7200 rpm hard drive
NO monitor

Hmmm... ok, well two harpertowns of that calibre are about 10-1100 dollars if you do your shopping. Perhaps that price is justified. 2 GB of DDR2 ram? lol... 20 dollars at most? A case with those features, maybe 160 USD (comparing it to thermaltake armor... right). The 2600 is 55 dollars. 320 GB at 7200 rpm costs ya 50 USD. so thats 1100, 1120, 1280, 1335, throw on a power supply, thats 1400. Throw in other miscellaneous parts, ok benefit of the doubt with the motherboard, MAYBE 2000 dollars total.

2000 dollars for parts that are 2 years old, minus the processors...?!

Maybe I can configure some newer parts. Let's have a look.

Processors are already expensive, lets keep those.

Bill said something about 32 GB ram, lets see. WHAT 9,100 DOLLARS!!! THAT MUST BE A TYPO!!! Ok 4 gb ddr2 is 40 dollars, multiply that by 8... ok 320. Hmmm a difference of nearly 9000 dollars. I guess I'll be sticking with the 2GB.

RAID card... well based on the price of the ram, I'd better not look at that. Woops, looked, 800 dollars?

Hmmm I recall Bill also talking about having a terabyte or so of HDD space. 300 dollars for 1 TB? I thought that was more like 100 dollars...

I've definitely got to choose a better graphics card... hmmm choices choices. You've got the 2600, the 2600, the 2600, the 2600, 8800GT?!, and some obtusely priced workstation card. I guess I'll go with the 8800GT. Hmm that is 2 years old too. I thought I was looking for new stuff?

Carrying on and scrolling past the 100 dollar DVD drive, 600 dollar 20 inch monitor and all the other overpriced goods, it doesn't look like I can afford something newer than 2 year old parts.

You don't even need to use logic here to see WHY this is an epic waste of money. You can get a windows computer that would totally wipe the floor with that thing for significantly less than 2000 dollars. For the price of the base G5, you could build an i7 machine that would pretty much wipe any G5 configuration except the most expensive one. I don't even want to see how much that would be. I'd rather get that new car instead, or even use it for a nice down payment on a new house.

Bill, I'd love it if you could justify ANY of these prices for me. Pick any single one and justify it. In fact I am more than open to anything that macs do better than PC's. I'd happily admit it and accept it too! I've spent countless hours scouring the internet for something BETTER about macs and I can't find it. I WANT to find SOMETHING, even ONE thing! There HAS to be a reason people are wasting their money on those things! I feel left out not knowing. If it is so much better, I want to know why, and I'll even buy one!

Please, someone give me some real reasons, or even ONE real reason why a mac is worth the price of a new car! I really want to know! I've never had any of the problems with my "pc"s that you guys have been talking about. Vista runs a thousand times better on my laptop than XP did on my old desktop. I don't know if i should attribute that to Vista or XP. I just don't see any reasons why someone would move to a mac based on this thread and my real-world experiences.

[Bjoern]

AFAIK, there are no significant differences between a stock Quad and a Xeon. I've seen quite a lot of guys using them on the web.

Must be the lower price or something.

I agree on the video card though. A 2600 is nothing short of a joke.

[Lionheart]

Yep....

:d

No worries guys.. Stay with PC's...


I am loving it over here.


:ernae:


My 2600 runs FSX awesome and burns a FS9 model in 2 min's. My smile is touching my ears right now. Havent been this happy about a computer in ages.


:rapture:



Bill

[Kiwikat]

No worries guys.. Stay with PC's...

I am loving it over here.

Havent been this happy about a computer in ages.

I DO plan on staying with PC's because you apple folks won't give me any reason to switch and from my previous experience with "pc"s I have no reason to switch.

Please, give me a good reason to switch! Give me a reason Mac might be better than windows! I want to know! I'm willing to listen! I have to be missing SOMETHING if people are willing to spend that much more money for them. I want to know what I'm missing!

Bill I'm glad you are happy with your new (apple) computer. I just want to know why!

:help:

[Lionheart]

I DO plan on staying with PC's because you apple folks won't give me any reason to switch and from my previous experience with "pc"s I have no reason to switch.

Please, give me a good reason to switch! Give me a reason Mac might be better than windows! I want to know! I'm willing to listen! I have to be missing SOMETHING if people are willing to spend that much more money for them. I want to know what I'm missing!

Bill I'm glad you are happy with your new (apple) computer. I just want to know why!

:help:




Hmmm... I thought I had been doing that. :faint:



<--- off to enjoy my day off and fly in FSX... :d



Bill

[Ghostrider]

I think the point is, Bill's flying - not wondering what's gonna break next, tweaking, and upgrading, and updating his OS so someone doesn't steal his identity! :icon_lol:

I was in Staples the other day - big poster in the front window "PC Problems? We can fix them!" Never see anything like that for Macs, even at a Mac Store. You do the math.

Ghostrider

[Kiwikat]

I think the point is, Bill's flying - not wondering what's gonna break next, tweaking, and upgrading, and updating his OS so someone doesn't steal his identity! :icon_lol:

I don't spend my time wondering whats gonna break next, tweaking, upgrading, and updating my OS either!

My laptop with Vista Ultimate runs more solid than any computer I've ever used. EVER!

I honestly believe you guys either have really really bad luck or were suffering some form of PEBCAK on your Windows based machines. I have never had any of the problems you guys are talking about, especially not with my Vista laptop!


Just BTW Ghost, You said "PC Problems?" We can fix them! A Mac is a personal computer! It didn't say Windows Problems? or Linux Problems? or even Mac Problems? Just "PC" Problems.

From Wikipedia: Today a PC may be a desktop computer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desktop_computer), a laptop computer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laptop_computer) or a tablet computer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tablet_computer). The most common operating systems (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_systems) are Microsoft Windows (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Windows), Mac OS X (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X) and Linux (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux), while the most common microprocessors are x86 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86)-compatible CPUs, ARM architecture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture) CPUs and PowerPC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerPC) CPUs.

[SkippyBing]

not wondering what's gonna break next, tweaking, and upgrading, and updating his OS so someone doesn't steal his identity!

Similarly not a problem I have with any of my three PCs, and after all Bill is running Windows on his Mac to fly FSX!

[codeseven]

Ok, I think we've thoroughly established that....

1) Some folks like PC's.

2) Some folks like Mac's.

3) Some folks like PC's and Mac's.

My original question has been answered, FSX plays just fine on a Mac.

This thread has served it's purpose and now runs the risk of deteriorating into the usual, and pointless, Mac vs PC bologna.

Moderators, as the OP I ask you to please lock this thread. Thanks


Codeseven

[Roger]

Well Codeseven,
I've kept well out of this little debate as I have no experience with Macs but I don't think the thread has run it's course yet. It is a remarkably civilised thread with interesting, if somewhat subjective results reported. What stands out is that if you are not a PC dabbler, prepared to go inside the case and also fiddle with the software then a highly complex Microsoft game will run better (for some) on what we used to call "emulators" on alien operating systems!!!
If Microsoft is listening then perhaps in future their os should be categorised as "Gamer" or "Business" or maybe "Media" or even "Mess about with everything..but in a shallow sort of way"?

[SkippyBing]

on what we used to call "emulators" on alien operating systems

Err... no they're running Win XP on Apple built PCs to run FSX. If it was an emulator that'd be impressive.

[Roger]

Err... no they're running Win XP on Apple built PCs to run FSX. If it was an emulator that'd be impressive.

Hmmm so you're saying that the XP running on a Mac is not effectively an Emulator to enable PC games to run on a Mac? I used emulators so my son could run Mario etc on a pc, isn't that effecively the same thing?.

[SkippyBing]

Well, no, it's no different from running XP on any other PC. Current Macs use Intel chips with PC memory, graphics cards, hard drives etc. When you load XP it is to all intents and purposes just a PC running XP, there's no trickery involved.
The only current difference between a PC and a Mac is the Operating System, if you have a correctly specced PC you can run OSX on it the main problem benig the hardware specs for Macs are tied down more tightly so it's harder to get a generic PC to run OSX than it is to get a Mac to run XP.

[Kiwikat]

There's an idea, sell the Mac OS separately and let people install it freely like Windows. Then we wouldn't have to worry about a 2800 dollar minimum price tag. :ernae:

[Lionheart]

Well, no, it's no different from running XP on any other PC. Current Macs use Intel chips with PC memory, graphics cards, hard drives etc. When you load XP it is to all intents and purposes just a PC running XP, there's no trickery involved.
The only current difference between a PC and a Mac is the Operating System, if you have a correctly specced PC you can run OSX on it the main problem benig the hardware specs for Macs are tied down more tightly so it's harder to get a generic PC to run OSX than it is to get a Mac to run XP.


At 'insanelymac.com' they do install OSX onto regular PC computers, and love it. They also buy the Apple computers and install just windows on them.

Its basically merging though individuals varied approaches...

*Note; Its very 'tricky' to install OSX onto a standard PC. It also disqualifies the EULA for OSX as they are designed for Mac computers. According to a head hauncho at Apple, it is done because of requirements that the hardware perfectly sync with each other. They explained that one of the major reasons PC's have so many issues is there are a zillion hardware components all intermixed and alot of them are subquality or use different settings. (Made sense to me, from what all I have been through).

I think that goes in line with how the graphics card issues have been working for the past 2 years.. (Its been two years already since FSX came out?? eeks.. ).


Yep... If any of you think Macs are too expensive, odd, wierd, not worth it, a waist of time, then hey, look no more. Forget you saw this thread... All is well... Macs are just another line of computers that are available to the market, thats all..

:p

Peace, baby....

:rapture:


Bill

[Lionheart]

Hmmm so you're saying that the XP running on a Mac is not effectively an Emulator to enable PC games to run on a Mac? I used emulators so my son could run Mario etc on a pc, isn't that effecively the same thing?.

Hey Roger,

Its just slightly different but also basic..

You take part of the hard drive of the Mac and format it as a seperate HD space or zone, (like having vista and XP on one HD). Boot Camp (a Mac OS program) is then installed between them. This installs 'button links' that make it possible to 'click' and the machine goes into reboot and boots up into the sister OS.

This is also being done by people that have Linux, so they are running Linux 'and' Mac. (I wonder if its possible to run 3 OS's on one of these... That would be interesting).


So, not really an emmulation. However, with Cross Over and with Wine (both are programs used to enable alot of PC programs and games to run in Mac mode, not Windows), these create a 'bottle' program structure that enables an EXE to run as an APP, which is the difference primarily with Apple OS systems..



Bill

[Lionheart]

For those curious about the Mac running FSX...


Someone recently (in the past 2 weeks) was saying that setting your frame rates higher allows the sim to run slightly smoother. Well, I tried it on the Mac and sure enough.. I set it at 36 FPS. The thing runs it extremely well, lol.. Here I thought 20 FPS was pretty good.


I am still learning alot on this rig, and have been so busy with work and design and errands, etc, that I hadnt had a chance to experiment with the settings much. Tonight I did and I am glad I did. :d I didnt think that extra 16 FPS would make a difference, but it sure does. It seems as though the system doesnt fight as hard to run, and the fluidity when looking around is quite nice..

(You have to understand, I havent been able to run FSX smoothly before, so you can understand how I felt to see FSX running smooth at a constant 36 FPS... Eyes as big as quarters, gray eyebrows unfurrowed and pointing straight out of my forehead, the hair on the back of my neck auto-shedding and floating to the ground, sweat beading up and dripping off my palms onto the Saitek joysticks, the glazed look frozen as my mind bathed in a semi-Narvana like trance, beholding the nicely filled autogen world of FSX, complete with cars on the highways... :d ).


:faint:


Bill

[Wiens]

Bill and other Mac owners,

I have a really dumb question: do you need to defrag Mac hard drives?

Kevin

[txnetcop]

I have watched with great interest the salesmanship of the MAC side of the house. As I said earlier I have access to MACS at work usually the notebook but yesterday I had the MAC server to myself. I shut down all the systems attached and loaded FSX on it to see just what 2 killer 3.2 GB Xeon Harpertown 45nm processors would do with FSX.

OK, yesterday evening I ran FSX on this Mac Pro server which belongs to the doctors I service on my network:


Mac Pro
Two 3.2GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon “Harpertown” processors
4GB memory (800MHz DDR2 fully-buffered DIMM ECC)
(1) Nvidia 8800 GT thin graphics with 512 MB memory (no SLI available)
(2) 1TB Serial ATA 3Gb/s 7200-rpm hard drive1 on a MAC PRO Raid Card
(2) Opitcal 16x double-layer SuperDrive
The Apple Cinema HD Display (30" flat panel) -nice monitor by the way!
Mac OS X Server v10.5

Her costs(I know this because I looked at her invoice on the server: $8278.00

I set up the same way as my computer which is:
X-48 Gigabyte DQ-6 with an E8600 OC'd to 3.8
2 150 GB 10,000 RPM Raptor in RAID 1 config
4GB PC2 9600 OCZ
1 ATI HD 4870 OC
Windows XP 32bit
24" LG Monitor

My cost was a little over $1500 with the monitor

All the sliders were set the same as my sliders in FSX. I have no tweaks not even in the FSX.cfg. I set everything to MAX except Autogen at Very dense and traffic at 80% for GA and commercial, cars 50, ships 40, boats 40

I set FSX to run at 40fps at a resolution of 1920x1200 on both, when set to unlimited the MAC was no longer smooth

The MAC could not keep up the same frame rate as my system, while at times it would do 40 it usually ran around 22-34-which I admit was just as smooth as mine even with the frame rate drop. I took off from Olympia and landed at Renton. The lowest my system ran 34 over Seattle. Even with dual Xeon processors and their new memory technology the MAC was slightly inferior on FSX and cost 6x more.

No, I just can't see it guys. I was very fair on this test. I will admit, I love the MAC monitor but the 2 Xeon Harpertown quad processors which are the new 45nm hotrods are no better than the single E8600 on my cheaper Gigabyte motherboard with FSX so that would be a $8000 plus dollar waste of money.

My next test next week will be with Medal of Honor Airborne and COD 4. I do expect better results with the Xeon processors-heck for $8000 plus dollars it better do more than my $1400 rig
Ted

[Lionheart]

Bill and other Mac owners,

I have a really dumb question: do you need to defrag Mac hard drives?

Kevin

Kevin,

I cant find a way to defrag.... I was looking through the Utility tools the other night and could not find anything except a HD Disc Utility 'app' called 'Verify'.

Maybe its in there somewhere, but I couldnt find it... Good question man. I wonder if they auto-stack things proper or something, or if I will need to defrag.

I'll ask this in the Apple discussions forum and let you knwo what they say.




Bill

[Lionheart]

I have watched with great interest the salesmanship of the MAC side of the house. As I said earlier I have access to MACS at work usually the notebook but yesterday I had the MAC server to myself. I shut down all the systems attached and loaded FSX on it to see just what 2 killer 3.2 GB Xeon Harpertown 45nm processors would do with FSX.

OK, yesterday evening I ran FSX on this Mac Pro server which belongs to the doctors I service on my network:


Mac Pro
Two 3.2GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon “Harpertown” processors
4GB memory (800MHz DDR2 fully-buffered DIMM ECC)
(1) Nvidia 8800 GT thin graphics with 512 MB memory (no SLI available)
(2) 1TB Serial ATA 3Gb/s 7200-rpm hard drive1 on a MAC PRO Raid Card
(2) Opitcal 16x double-layer SuperDrive
The Apple Cinema HD Display (30" flat panel) -nice monitor by the way!
Mac OS X Server v10.5

Her costs(I know this because I looked at her invoice on the server: $8278.00

I set up the same way as my computer which is:
X-48 Gigabyte DQ-6 with an E8600 OC'd to 3.8
2 150 GB 10,000 RPM Raptor in RAID 1 config
4GB PC2 9600 OCZ
1 ATI HD 4870 OC
Windows XP 32bit
24" LG Monitor

My cost was a little over $1500 with the monitor

All the sliders were set the same as my sliders in FSX. I have no tweaks not even in the FSX.cfg. I set everything to MAX except Autogen at Very dense and traffic at 80% for GA and commercial, cars 50, ships 40, boats 40

I set FSX to run at 40fps at a resolution of 1920x1200 on both, when set to unlimited the MAC was no longer smooth

The MAC could not keep up the same frame rate as my system, while at times it would do 40 it usually ran around 22-34-which I admit was just as smooth as mine even with the frame rate drop. I took off from Olympia and landed at Renton. The lowest my system ran 34 over Seattle. Even with dual Xeon processors and their new memory technology the MAC was slightly inferior on FSX and cost 6x more.

No, I just can't see it guys. I was very fair on this test. I will admit, I love the MAC monitor but the 2 Xeon Harpertown quad processors which are the new 45nm hotrods are no better than the single E8600 on my cheaper Gigabyte motherboard with FSX so that would be a $8000 plus dollar waste of money.

My next test next week will be with Medal of Honor Airborne and COD 4. I do expect better results with the Xeon processors-heck for $8000 plus dollars it better do more than my $1400 rig
Ted



Ted,

The nightmare story of that Gentleman in Italy that paid well over $5,000.00 USD on top of the line parts on a custom super PC for just FSX, (about a year or two ago) and ended up that the computer barely ran FSX at all, comes to mind.



Bill

[Wiens]

Bill,

That is Ted's point........if a computer build is done properly with knowledge of the interaction of components two things will happen: 1. it will run FSX in a satisfying manner and 2. it won't break the bank. Just throwing money at a problem and hoping for a solution won't fix it.......(bailout)!

I have $1,800 in my system, including a 26" monitor, I built in June 2008 and I'm satisfied with the experience I have with FSX. Although the A2A B377/Accusim is now increasing my delight!!

Kevin

[Lionheart]

Bill,

That is Ted's point........if a computer build is done properly with knowledge of the interaction of components two things will happen: 1. it will run FSX in a satisfying manner and 2. it won't break the bank. Just throwing money at a problem and hoping for a solution won't fix it.......(bailout)!

I have $1,800 in my system, including a 26" monitor, I built in June 2008 and I'm satisfied with the experience I have with FSX. Although the A2A B377/Accusim is now increasing my delight!!

Kevin


Hey Kevin,

Roger that. Its a shame though that alot of people have gone through making computers that can run FSX and werent able to make it happen. Seems to be some computers can run it, some cant. Some spend alot, and some spend very little. Blessed is all I can say.

Man.. 26inch screen!!! Awesome..! I am barely getting used to me 24 inch screen. Some day, perhaps we'll all be using big plasma screens, lol.. Curved ones wrapping around from left to right. :d



Bill

[kilo delta]

Sheeesh....who in their right mind would spend 8k or more on a computer?!!:faint:











**ducks head behind his lcd so that his missus can't see his blushes** :monkies::kilroy:

[Kiwikat]

Sheeesh....who in their right mind would spend 8k or more on a computer?!!

The same people who would spend 9100 dollars for 32 GB DDR2 800 ram when it SHOULD cost 320...

Nice comparison, Ted. Half my computer parts are coming tomorrow!!! :jump:

I can't wait :woot:

[Lionheart]

There you go. :d



I dont think a lady doctor bought that computer for gaming.... I am thinking its for her work.

If you guys are saying that Apples are just to expensive and you cant work on them, and you can make computers all day long for a zillioneth of the price, and that they are just too different, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc... Then look away! Dont look at Apples, lol... Goodness... lololol....

Case closed, judgements passed, carry on.. Have a good day. Thank you for shopping at Walmart.


happy bill

[txnetcop]

Bill I really didn't want this to become a pissing contest as it seems some wish. I was simply pointing out that one of most expensive MACs could not keep up with a $1400 custom build unit in FSX. Now I am unsure how it will come out in games other than FSX and I will find out next week.

I am really pleased that you are happy with your MAC, but it sounded like you were encouraging others to do the same when in fact their experience with a MAC would be quite costly for less results. Now, if they can afford it,and prefer all the other things MAC does vs PC, that's fine-to each his own, but I sure as heck wouldn't buy a MAC just to run FSX. That's all I meant in my comparison.
Ted

[Kiwikat]

I am really pleased that you are happy with your MAC, but it sounded like you were encouraging others to do the same when in fact their experience with a MAC would be quite costly for less results.

Same here. However, I felt a differing opinion on the G5 and its cost was necessary.

It would be nice if the topic could be locked at the OP's request. Doesn't seem there is much more to be said. :ernae:

[Akatsuki]

Would run great on that one. :engel016:

<embed src="http://www.theonion.com/content/themes/common/assets/videoplayer/flvplayer.swf" allowscriptaccess="always" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" flashvars="file=http://www.theonion.com/content/xml/92328/video&debugging=true&autostart=false&image=http://www.theonion.com/content/files/images/NO_KEYBOARD_article.jpg&bufferlength=3&embedded=true&title=Apple%20Introduces%20Revolutionary%20New%20L aptop%20With%20No%20Keyboard" width="400" height="355">

Apple Introduces Revolutionary New Laptop With No Keyboard (http://www.theonion.com/content/node/92328?utm_source=embedded_video)

[codeseven]

Ok, I think we've thoroughly established that....

1) Some folks like PC's.

2) Some folks like Mac's.

3) Some folks like PC's and Mac's.

My original question has been answered, FSX plays just fine on a Mac.

This thread has served it's purpose and now runs the risk of deteriorating into the usual, and pointless, Mac vs PC bologna.

Moderators, as the OP I ask you to please lock this thread. Thanks


Codeseven


Thanks

[Kiwikat]

:icon_lol: I think I would actually buy that!

The Onion is a godsend. It is cool going down to Madison because we always stop and pick up the latest copies of the newspaper.

[Lionheart]

Someone asked if FSX could run on a Mac....


Look at what this turned into...





Man..

[Akatsuki]

It's just a bit of humour... It won't hurt anyone i guess... :wavey:

... Anyway i think too this post should be closed.

[hinch]

Bill and other Mac owners,

I have a really dumb question: do you need to defrag Mac hard drives?

Kevin

Yep!

The OS say it automatically does it as you go along but 18 months with a Macbook proves very much otherwise and it took about 3 hours to defrag with 3rd party software.

This is with Tiger though, maybe Leopard is better?

[txnetcop]

I defrag the MACs on the network often. Yes inspite of what they say at Apple you need to defrag your drives even when using Leopard.

Also why close the thread as long as everyone is being reasonable. Every disagreement does not have to become a cat fight if people still respect the other's opinions and everybody has one. Leave the thread along please.

http://mac.softpedia.com/get/Utilities/iDefrag.shtml
Ted

[harleyman]

I feel that this thread is just fine...It seems we all have our opinions and as long as they are respectfully stated there is no problem that I see....

Personally I know nothing about a Mac..But I have learned a gread deal from this thread....

And I see that others are having good suscess with FSX on the Mac.. That is a good thing to me.....



But I can see how its getting a little long winded too......

[Lionheart]

Roger that HarleyMan.

:ernae:


In parusing the Mac Downloads site last night at Apple.com, I came accross a defrag utility, so there are Mac defraggers out there. Good to know. Also good to know that Leopard does have a builtin system, though not perfect, that attempts at keeping the bits all in order. :d


Man.. So many things to download over there. I picked up some cool screensavers.

What has my iPod turned me into, lol....




Bill