Vertigo Forums

[Smashing Time]

What happened to the post about Vertigo studios gone?

[Kiwikat]

Somebody probably didn't like the fact that we were talking about them not releasing patches for their Bearcat and Panther...

It isn't like we're asking for the impossible. We just want the products we spent money on patched.




I don't understand what they've gained from removing their forums.

[Smashing Time]

I wonder who that somebody is?
SOH Censorship Police?
:kilroy:

[warchild]

The thread became personal and inflamatory, and at that point it was agreed that nothing positive was taking place. It wasnt just Kiwi expressing his opinion, the post that actually closed it and had it moved was from someone else. We dont mind opinions, even if sometimes they are a little harsh and other times over the top which Kiwis expression, though it could have been stated more effectively, was neither.. Personal attacks and threats will not be tolerated in this forum. No more so than a threat or an attack would be tolerated in your home or mine, and thats what became of that thread.. Let sleeping dogs lay and please dont try and dig it back up. I will personally squish it.
Pam

[robcap]

I don't mind threads being closed at the mod's discretion, but deleting them from the forum is a bad idea.
If a thread is closed, it will quickly disappear to the bottom of forum posts (and probably be forgotten), but everyone can still see what went on, and why it was closed. Most, if not all people will agree with the mod's actions.
But again, deleting them is a bad thing.

my 2 cents (being a (support) forum moderator myself)

Cheers, Rob

[stansdds]

I don't mind threads being closed at the mod's discretion, but deleting them from the forum is a bad idea.
If a thread is closed, it will quickly disappear to the bottom of forum posts (and probably be forgotten), but everyone can still see what went on, and why it was closed. Most, if not all people will agree with the mod's actions.
But again, deleting them is a bad thing.

my 2 cents (being a (support) forum moderator myself)

Cheers, Rob
I must agree with Rob. Deleting threads creates confusion and can look like someone is hiding something. I think it is better to lock a thread and just let it die on its own.

[dswo]

I must agree with Rob. Deleting threads creates confusion and can look like someone is hiding something. I think it is better to lock a thread and just let it die on its own.

In general, I agree. Should there be an exception for libel?

[Sayuuk]

SOH Staff, please remember:

SOH is a big and very informative place that many people check before buying their products.

So I think it is adequate to post about trouble with VS right here, as this will bring it to the biggest audience of possibly affected customers.

All of the posts in the deleted thread were written in a calm and polite manner, an attitude which of course will not hide that most of us are disappointed by VS, but that should be understandable, given that they continue to release new products without fixing - as they said they would - already released products.


I think future customers doing research on whether they should buy a product should be informed that right now the situation is not satisfactory!

It would be insulting to VS if it was wrong what we are writing, but it is simply stating facts, no manufacturing anything!

I feel that threads like these are a statement, as obviously VS doesn't care what we tell them in their own forums...

You cannot sell unfinished products and then tell people (and I quote Deano's last post here) to "invest in other people, if you're not happy".
That might be an option if I hadn't already spent my money on the F8F!!



I even think this thread should be pinned. Until they fix their products they shouldn't be advertised as a nice company with great airplanes by deleting all threads that point to the bad stuff.

The situation as it is right now is unacceptable!



Cheers,
Stefan

P.S.: And yes, it was my posting exactly like this on the VS forums, that "forced" them to close it. I bought the F8F in November and have complained about bugs & issues since then, to no advance!

P.S.S.: This was Deano's last post:
Good your custom is not welcome toss pot. Im totally fed up of pissing around here trying to look after customers and being let by the team I have. If your not happy then invest your money into someone else, infact send over your Ip address so I can ban you from the site.

I think he should be approached by the staff, as his behavior & language is completely inappropriate.

[wombat666]

I think he should be approached by the staff, as his behavior & language is completely inappropriate.

Indeed he is.
Being a 'Developer' does not give one carte blanche to behave badly.
It costs nothing to be polite.
:173go1:

[N2056]

For anyone dying to know I was the one that deleted that thread. the posts that caused it happened fairly quickly, and the timing was why most of you don't understand what happened. I did so because some of the personal things said at the end should have never been brought up. I would also suggest that when you see a thread get yanked like that there was probably a really good reason behind it. Trying to start it over tends to go poorly.

At the time I did that I also brought up the issue in the staff forum for discussion.

[Sayuuk]

For anyone dying to know I was the one that deleted that thread. the posts that caused it happened fairly quickly, and the timing was why most of you don't understand what happened. I did so because some of the personal things said at the end should have never been brought up. I would also suggest that when you see a thread get yanked like that there was probably a really good reason behind it. Trying to start it over tends to go poorly.

At the time I did that I also brought up the issue in the staff forum for discussion.

Alright then. My quote of Deano above was the last email notification I got. When I went to check back the thread was gone.

I really agree that this thread should be locked, so that it stays within the limits of normal polite behavior, before anyone talks out of line.
However I think it should be pinned, so that it does NOT just die and be forgotten about.


You know, it seemed like Deano had you remove the thread after closing his own forums, leaving us with no platform to share our disappointment with others and most importantly, no way to "warn" others.


Cheers, Stefan

[OleBoy]

Considering your number of posts, what you state is partly justifiable about their forums. But to have three posts and 1/3rd being a complaint, that also tends to not go over well around here.

Just say'in

[Sayuuk]

Considering your number of posts, what you state is partly justifiable about their forums. But to have three posts and 1/3rd being a complaint, that also tends to not go over well around here.

Just say'in

I just saw that Member+ notification yesterday, which is when I had my status changed.

On the other hand, it shouldn't matter... I think I am expressing my opinion in a way that is sophisticated enough to show that I think before I write something...

I get what you're trying to say, but this issue is too important to me to do anything about it ;-)

You know, being insulted by the guy you paid for something he hasn't done yet - after half a year - kind of motivates...

Plus this has been going on for months in their own forums, I'm just glad someone besides me is speaking up.



Cheers,
Stefan


edit: I have a few more posts at Aerosoft and AVSIM, basically none of them being complaints ;-)

[flaviossa]

Well, i don´t think that the number of posts someone have in here has anything to do with the fact that is exposed in here. I can confirm all that he said, because i followed the treads in vs forum too.

And if he has only 3 posts, maybe is that he doesn´t knew about SOH before? Everyone in here had only 3 posts sometime :icon_lol:

[skyhawka4m]

Ok....I am going to step out on a limb here and ask this. are we dealing in life or death here? Is this a game/simulator, or is it real? Really guys......I think there are some of us here who need to step back and look at the big picture. How many of us I true developers who know what truly goes into developing an aircraft?

I for one have found the VS product to be nothing short of awesome. Do they have their issues....yes, but......would I want my money back because I have to reset a plane to reset the tailhook...no.

I know and understand that we should be allowed to voice our complaints and issues without feeling like it is going to end up in a flame war, but frankly....you can only complain so much before your complaint falls on deaf ears. I have done my share of complaining and I have learned what its like to go over the edge. I just hope no one here will have to experience that also.

I don't work for VS but I do support them and frankly I'm happy with every plane I've bought from them even with the minor issues and I will continue to buy from them, even with the minor issues. I do hope for upgrades and fixes but I'm not going to bad mouth them, especially looking at what they have coming out.

Its too bad that VS has shut down their forums, but frankly....they can do as they wish, its their site and they own it.


So let the flames start on me....I have my fire suit on. I have to go deal with the real world now, its called life.

[mal998]

Ah...here we are again...shades of threads past. Whipping up the mob to a frenzy is an old tactic, which often leads to a hanging.

Polite behavior? Does that include throwing complaints at the developer on a third party forum, rather than the developers own website?

But we didn't get the answer we wanted (righteous indignation). We were justified!

The joy of driving another developer into the ground because a few individuals didn't get satisfaction they so rightly deserve. How dare that developer?

Yes, I know, money changed hands, "but you don't understand, it's the principle of the thing"!

And where does that darn developer get off getting angry and mis-behaving...he's got some damn nerve!

I guess we'll all be a lot better off without the likes of AlphaSim, IcarusGold, Vertigo Studios, spewing their venom.

Who needs all those damn planes anyway? (he said sarcasticly)

[Sayuuk]

Ah...here we are again...shades of threads past. Whipping up the mob to a frenzy is an old tactic, which often leads to a hanging.

Polite behavior? Does that include throwing complaints at the developer on a third party forum, rather than the developers own website?

But we didn't get the answer we wanted (righteous indignation). We were justified!

The joy of driving another developer into the ground because a few individuals didn't get satisfaction they so rightly deserve. How dare that developer?

Yes, I know, money changed hands, "but you don't understand, it's the principle of the thing"!

And where does that darn developer get off getting angry and mis-behaving...he's got some damn nerve!

I guess we'll all be a lot better off without the likes of AlphaSim, IcarusGold, Vertigo Studios, spewing their venom.

Who needs all those damn planes anyway?

Alrighty...

@3rd party website: they shut their forum down and I don't get any email-replies (besides the usual STFU-ones)

@few individuals: F8F/F9F: ADF does not work

this not what an individual thinks, it is simply a fact.
And it doesn't stop there.

@money: I pay someone => I get something. I get nothing => I get my money back

Deano's replies so far where that he didn't have to give the money back, because he said so on the Terms of Use page.
If he was fixing the planes in a timely manner (and 6 months is not), I would agree.
If not it is the legally mandatory warranty that supersedes here.

@answer: What answers?

The answer was in November, that a patch was released shortly. The same answer now for 6 months...^^

@spewing their venom:

You want to know what customer support looks like?

=> Aerosoft
=> A2A
=> Flight1
=> FlyTampa
=> FS2Crew
=> Lotus
=> PMDG
=> RealAir
=> REX
=> VRS


edit:
@Real-World & Life: exactly. That's where I earn my money... the money that was wasted on the F8F...


Cheers, Stefan

[skyhawka4m]

Well, I suggest you learn from your "mistake" and never buy from them again if their stuff is that terrible.

I for some reason think you have other bones to pick with VS and frankly,......you've said your piece and I think we need to move on.

I hope the mods do lock this but not remove it for all parties opinions matter in this case.

[mal998]

I feel your frustration! I have been simming since '95...

Maybe we need to take a step back and let cooler heads prevail.

[warchild]

I'm amazed Gentlemen. So far this thread is staying relatively civil.. Lets please keep it that way. I can assure you Rob had very good reason for removing the original thread. It wasnt too hide anything or deny anyone their say. It was simply that things got way out of hand, very fast, and Rob had to make a call, and he made it. The staff felt that he made the right decision, and we still do.
Removing posts is not something we enjoy doing, and frankly, we do it quite rarely, but the thread had gotten that bad. Though its true that this forum is a clearing house of valuable information in regards to products, but, information is information. Openly and brazenly throwing temper tantrums however is not really useful information ( no matter how cathartic it may be ). That thread went way beyond temper tantrums.. way beyond.
Ok so point taken.Many people bought this product which they feel did not meet standards and when properly requesting that it be made to work right, feel they were snubbed off.. They feel that technical support has not been good and fair and reasonable expectations have not been met in any way shape or form... In point of fact, they feel burned.. If I had read something like that, I would definately not be inclined to buy anything from that company, however, when what i see is more along the lines of " That SOB Sold me a bum product and now hes refusing to fix it and i really got pissed and forced them to close their forum" I'm more inclined to just wonder whats wrong with the guy.. No one does themselves any justice with emotional outbursts. In fact, you usually just do yourself harm by making yourself sound like a crazy fool, and an annoying one at that. Use your head, not your heart..

I truly feel bad for the folks who have had a problem, but theres nothing i can do, except to make sure that the information that really is information and not an emotional platitude, stays within the public realm for others to use as a reference, and i wil do that, but it needs to be information, and not an emotional outburst. If its an outburst, I will close it, and if it gets as bad as the other thread got, I'll remove it.. Its not censorship to not want rotting garbage in your house. I'm not saying dont exopress your frustrations. I'm not saying dont express your opinion. I'm saying, Use your head. Communicate, dont dictate.. It works a whole lot better..
Pam ( late to bed ... again )...