Want to drive a BMW in FSX ?

[rcbarend]

Hi all,

Just a headsup: within a few days, I will release a totally revised "car FDE"; initially for a BMW 760.

What is a "car FDE (Flight Dynamics Engine)" ?
If you have ever 'driven' an automobile in the MSFS scenery, you'll probably have noticed that, at best, the driving experiance is not what you are used to in your own car.

IMHO, with the standard FDE of MSFS it simply isn't possible to model good car behaviour, because MSFS (obviously, since it simulates aircraft) lacks two important features for creating that:
1. Speed/acceleration is a resultant of "Jet/Prop thrust" (in essence: pushing air backward, resulting in forward speed/accelleration); NOT: based on traction/friction of tires with the ground surface.
2. MSFS has no awareness of a gearbox function, meaning that there is a fixed relation between engine RPM and turbine/propeller RPM; unlike in an automobile, where wheel RPM is directly coupled to engine RPM, either via discrete gear transmission (manually or automatically switched) or socalled CVT's.

So, based on the same principles I use in my "VTOL" implementations (essentially: an FDE in gauge-code), I developped a "car FDE".

Initially, I will release this for Hama's beautifull BMW760LI visual model; although this was created for FS9, it works great in FSX.

What it features:
- A manual/automatic gearbox, 6 speeds Forward, Neutral and Reverse. With proper engine revup/revdown sound, and gearbox transmission factors.
- Accelleration/Speeds in each gear, matching realworld specifications.
- Audible/visible wheelspin/side-slipping/spin effects, including a "doughnut" feature.
- Switchable ABS, TractionControl and a (simple) CruiseControl.
- and a lot more.....

Will it be a perfect simulation ?? No, it won't be. Things like exact over/understeering, spin recovery, "counter-steering", etc. are very difficult to model; that is: it will be just a matter of spending enough time on implementing the right formula's.
And I don't pretend to give you the same quality of driving experiance as in many of today's excellent car/racing simulations "games"; but after all, driving a car around in the MSFS scenery is just a "gimmick".....:icon_lol:

But you can judge it yourself, in a few days from now .....
And....freeware ....

:ernae:
Rob Barendregt

[falcon409]

That is great news Rob. I only have one car that I drive from time to time in FSX and it happens to be the BMW760Li. I've got a nice overseas airport that is also used as a racecourse on certain weekends and would love to try the new FDE out on that course. It was more than a handful previously with the current FDE.

Thanks for your work on this and I look forward to giving it a go soon.:salute:

[Bone]

Uh, heck yeah!

[OleBoy]

How about a Harley-Davidson with a hot chick hanging on real tight :mixedsmi:

[rcbarend]

That is great news Rob. I only have one car that I drive from time to time in FSX and it happens to be the BMW760Li. I've got a nice overseas airport that is also used as a racecourse on certain weekends and would love to try the new FDE out on that course. It was more than a handful previously with the current FDE.

Thanks for your work on this and I look forward to giving it a go soon.:salute:
Hi Ed,

I don't know if you ever tried my Challenger2 tank (with Matt's model), but it gives you a good idea on what I mean with a gearbox and stuff.
File rcbcha2x.zip, on flightsim.com

For the rest: main thing to do yet is a manual.
If you're interrested, send me an Email for a testpackage, so you can try it out over the weekend.

Best, Rob

[kilo delta]

Excellent...I can drive this one while my own bmw lingers in the garage with a blown turbo!!:kilroy:

[falcon409]

. . . . . . . .If you're interested, send me an Email for a test package, so you can try it out over the weekend.

Best, Rob
I'll definitely give the Tank a shot Rob. . . .e-mail sent!:salute:

[OleBoy]

My comment, I was kidding

[Meshman]

My comment, I was kidding

I see nothing wrong with your first comment. NOTHING at all... :icon_lol:

[vora]

Can you still steer the car in the air after jumping over a bump?
I always found that to be the most hilarious "aberration" of FSX cars... back to mommy! :icon_lol:

Anyway, super idea, FSX with the right addons is just too good to overfly it only.
Rock on, Rob.

[LonelyplanetXO]

I see nothing wrong with your first comment. NOTHING at all... :icon_lol:

Maybe the wife was looking over his shoulder?
LOL

LPXO

[rcbarend]

I'll definitely give the Tank a shot Rob. . . .e-mail sent!:salute:
Hi Ed,

Beta package for the BMW sent ....

:icon29: Rob

[PutPut]

At last, a BMW I can afford!!:ernae::ernae: I'll be glad to drive the beta (you have my email).

Best, Paul

[falcon409]

Hi Ed,
Beta package for the BMW sent ....
:icon29: Rob
Thanks Rob. . . .got it and already testing at Goodwood!!:salute:

[falcon409]

Oh baby. . . .Great Job Rob. . . .an e-mail to you is forthcoming!!:applause::applause:

[strykerpsg]

38396
My BMW, though looking for the new K1300S. It's the only BMW I can afford with a house note and two teenage kids to feed.

Matt

[Francois]

Mine's the old 1150RT, and no, I don't want it in FSX thankyouverymuch :icon_lol::icon_lol:

[Francois]

But I DO enjoy driving a JEEP around FSX sometimes (don't need to do doughnuts either!), so I would welcome a good driving FDE for sure :-) :salute:

[falcon409]

I wanted to bump this back to prominence because I've had a chance to test the new FDE and Rob has really done a fantastic job of simulating (as close as possible) not only the maneuverability aspects, but also true shifting functionality (both auto and manual shifting). He has also included tire screeches, smoking tires, doing donuts after a successful race (I've tried it and it takes some practice but it is possible) and a lot more.

Anyone who has gone off on any of the FSX highways and byways knows that despite looking nice and flat and navigable. . . .most roads are not, at least not for long distances. You also know that once you hit some serious bumps, the car get squirelly and pretty much unmanageable. This new FDE has ramped that down quite a few notches. I drove around the track at Goodwood last evening and then hopped on the main highway and drove for about 10 miles averaging around 80mph. The BMW never fishtailed and if I hit a bump it reacted as any car would, going airborne briefly but then right back on the road and cruising along.

I can't say enough about how well Rob has captured the fun of driving in FSX. Put the BMW in Orbyx PNW with all the glitz and glitter of some of the spectacular addons and this will only add to the whole "Reality" concept. Well Done Rob!!:jump::applause::salute:

[scott967b]

Anyone who has gone off on any of the FSX highways and byways knows that despite looking nice and flat and navigable. . . .most roads are not, at least not for long distances. You also know that once you hit some serious bumps, the car get squirelly and pretty much unmanageable. This new FDE has ramped that down quite a few notches.


sounds good. I've actually gotten good at driving from bump to bump. It's a little tough if there's traffic though.

scott s.
.

[rcbarend]

I wanted to bump this back to prominence because I've had a chance to test the new FDE and Rob has really done a fantastic job of simulating (as close as possible) not only the maneuverability aspects, but also true shifting functionality (both auto and manual shifting). He has also included tire screeches, smoking tires, doing donuts after a successful race (I've tried it and it takes some practice but it is possible) and a lot more.

Anyone who has gone off on any of the FSX highways and byways knows that despite looking nice and flat and navigable. . . .most roads are not, at least not for long distances. You also know that once you hit some serious bumps, the car get squirelly and pretty much unmanageable. This new FDE has ramped that down quite a few notches. I drove around the track at Goodwood last evening and then hopped on the main highway and drove for about 10 miles averaging around 80mph. The BMW never fishtailed and if I hit a bump it reacted as any car would, going airborne briefly but then right back on the road and cruising along.

I can't say enough about how well Rob has captured the fun of driving in FSX. Put the BMW in Orbyx PNW with all the glitz and glitter of some of the spectacular addons and this will only add to the whole "Reality" concept. Well Done Rob!!:jump::applause::salute:
Thanks for testing, Ed; and for the positive feedback.

For those of you who can't wait to try it: see attached file...
And PLEASE, start with reading the README closely; saves you (and me) a lot of questions.:icon_lol:

Enjoy ....

Rob

[wiltzei]

This is a brilliant mod, but I've got a few control issues.
1) I assume the intention of using Elevator Trim axis is to enable braking using the negative values and acceleration using positive values, and that requires combining axes in this case. I've own Saitek pedals, but I can't combine the two toe brake axes into a single axis neither with Saitek's own control panel program nor FSUIPC's "Axis Assignment" / "Joystick Calibration" tabs.

2) Could variable rate steering be accomplished with registered FSUIPC's "Axis Slope" function? I've played with it's values and haven't been able to get a natural feel - it's either way too slow/fast and at 50% physical joystick movement steering becomes impossible.

3) What's the correct FSUIPC hotkey for "Select Engine number X"? I wouldn't like to use FSX's own control menu for anything.

[rcbarend]

This is a brilliant mod, but I've got a few control issues.
1) I assume the intention of using Elevator Trim axis is to enable braking using the negative values and acceleration using positive values, and that requires combining axes in this case.

No. In the Alternative Control mode the brakes and accellerator are split axis:
- Left Brakes pedal of your Saitek pedals: Brakes (no change needed)

- Right Brakes pedal of your Saitek pedals: Accellerator, after you re-assign the Right Brakes pedal to Elevator Trim axis. (this axis is just used as a "proxy").
Come to think of it, for this model it might not be necessary to use the ElevatorTrim as proxy, but directly use RightBrakes input. (so you don't have make make a modification at all). Have to check what the BMW mdl does. (ie. if the right rear wheel blocks visually if you press the RightToebrake fully).
I'll come back on this subject.



2) Could variable rate steering be accomplished with registered FSUIPC's "Axis Slope" function? I've played with it's values and haven't been able to get a natural feel - it's either way too slow/fast and at 50% physical joystick movement steering becomes impossible.

I guess so, but I have to remove the "non-linearity" from the control gauge then.
So make it an option.
A warning though: with a stick, you'll never get the right feel for steering, since the control range of a stick is just too narrow; a flight yoke will always works a lot better.



3) What's the correct FSUIPC hotkey for "Select Engine number X"? I wouldn't like to use FSX's own control menu for anything.
Why would you need that Engine Select ??? There's only one engine.


Rob

EDIT LATER ...................
Ok, did some test, and I think I have the found the optimal and most flexible solution.

I will create an .ini file (a textfile with variable values that you can edit with Notepad), in which you can configure the following, depending on your used setup.
1. Steer-function: Ailerons Axis or Rudder Axis of your controller
2. Brakes-function: Lowerhalf of Elevator Axis or Left Toebrake
3. Accelerator-function: Upperhalf of the Elevator Axis or Right Toebrake
4. Non-linearity of the Steer-function (i.e. non-linearity in the mapping from Axis input to Steering output.
Implemented as: you can define in 10 steps (0%,10%, 20%, etc ) Axis input what the Steering output % will be.

Advantages:
- No more need to re-assign axis in FSX or FSUIPC (registered); you just configure which controller axis you want to use for Steering wheel, Brake pedal and Accelerator pedal, which applies ONLY to this "aircraft".
- You just create your own preference for non-linearity for steering, which applies only to this "aircraft"
When you want to use the (registered) AxisSlope function of FSUIPC instead, just configure the non-linearity in this ini file as linear (e.g. 20% ElevatorAxis --> 20% Steering)

I.e. You can tailor it to whatever controller setup you are using, without the need to change anything in your FSX setup (assignment and sensitivities)

"wiltzei": if you send me an EMail (see README for my address), I'll mail you a testversion. Need a day or two to make it.
Ed, if you want to try this too, let me know.

Rob

[vonstroheim]

38522

Thanks Rob... Your beta 1 is pure fun!

[wiltzei]

1) Sorry that was my bad. Your new solution sounds great.
2) Time to attach steering wheel to the table for FSX sessions during testing. I never imagined this day would come. http://fsfiles.org/flightsimshots/images/573_laugh.gif (http://fsfiles.org/flightsimshots view-573_laugh.gif)
3) I meant " Doors - select (open/close) 2 / 3 /4". This is cosmetic really, but it would enable assigning TC/ABS commands directly to joystick/wheel.

[rcbarend]

.......
3) I meant " Doors - select (open/close) 2 / 3 /4". This is cosmetic really, but it would enable assigning TC/ABS commands directly to joystick/wheel.

Yes, that easy in FSUIPC. You can setup a button to generate two events when pressed.
See also the file "list of FSX controls.pdf" in the subfolder "FSUIPC Documents" in /Modules.

For opening/closing exit-2 (fornt and passenger door) this would be:
"Toggle_Aircraft_Exit" followed by "Select_1".

Seen your EMail; I also have the new control working as advertsed; I will Email you in a few hours with instructions for install. Have to adapt the README for it, and how to make config changes in the new ini file.

Rob

[rcbarend]

1) Sorry that was my bad. Your new solution sounds great.

I just emailed the Beta-2, with the modifications as described in post #23

Rob

[Bone]

When you get it to "release candidate", please do a new thread so it can be made a sticky. I'll DL it then, sounds like it'll be fun. Thanks.

[rcbarend]

When you get it to "release candidate", please do a new thread so it can be made a sticky. I'll DL it then, sounds like it'll be fun. Thanks.
I'm not the person to decide whether a thread becomes a sticky or not ...:icon_lol:
In fact, I don't have a clue what the criterium for that is on this forum ...

But when I upload the final version (depending on two beta-testers testing it right now), I will announce it in a seperate thread. As far as I'm concerned, I have it as "release candidate" now; that is, I'm ready with the implementation, unless something weird pops up from the beta-test.

Rob

[falcon409]

lol, lol. . . .havin' way too much fun with this Rob. I got out on the infield at Goodwood and started racing across the infield, at about 80 I'd go into a couple of 360's and then back out and it was right on a straight line coming out. I also threw it in reverse, got up speed did the reverse with a couple of 360's at the end, into neutral and then shifting up coming out into a straight line. Wheels squeelin', tires smokin, engine revin'. . . .watchin' it from the tower and then from inside the car. . . .got a bit dizzy doin' that though so I went back to the Tower view, lol.

What a blast!!:salute:

[whitney17]

Since Hama made both the BMW and a Lexus LS 430, will this mod work in the Lexus too?

I like the opening sunroof in the Lexus, which the BMW doesn't have.

[rcbarend]

Since Hama made both the BMW and a Lexus LS 430, will this mod work in the Lexus too?

I like the opening sunroof in the Lexus, which the BMW doesn't have.
Don't know the Lexus, but if that runs in FSX: I can make it work.

Apart from performance of a Lexus probably being different then the BMW (which I need to tweak then), you can't just install this FDE for another car since some things are dependant on the pathnames of the installed cars.
And to avoid a lot of questions/problems, I want to test/adapt this "FDE" myself first with other cars.
So be patient; I'll release the BMW first; probably this weekend.

After that, I'll look into other car models.
If someone has suggestions, please give the exact filename of the package and where I can download it.

Rob

[rcbarend]

lol, lol. . . .havin' way too much fun with this Rob. I got out on the infield at Goodwood and started racing across the infield, at about 80 I'd go into a couple of 360's and then back out and it was right on a straight line coming out. I also threw it in reverse, got up speed did the reverse with a couple of 360's at the end, into neutral and then shifting up coming out into a straight line. Wheels squeelin', tires smokin, engine revin'. . . .watchin' it from the tower and then from inside the car. . . .got a bit dizzy doin' that though so I went back to the Tower view, lol.

What a blast!!:salute:
Hi Ed,

By the sound of your comment, it seems that you enjoy this even more then the Skycar a few years ago :icon_lol:

:ernae: Rob

[scott967b]

After that, I'll look into other car models.
If someone has suggestions, please give the exact filename of the package and where I can download it.


Hama's LS430 file LEXUS_430.zip is here:
http://simviation.com/1/download-file?file=LEXUS_LS430.zip&fileId=27163

It's FS9 but runs in FSX. It's using Mike Keller's BMWmods.air FDEs.

scott s.
.

[rcbarend]

I've just uploaded the final version to the libraries of flightsim.com and avsim.com, as file rcbbm-10.zip .

Enjoy ....

Rob

[Paul Anderson]

Tried applying to the FSX version by BMWmods (interior & exterior model files), crashes my FSX. Any salvation?

[rcbarend]

Tried applying to the FSX version by BMWmods (interior & exterior model files), crashes my FSX. Any salvation?
Sorry, no.
At present, I only support the original Hama file as specified in my README.
There are a number of things one can do wrong during installation, and it's just impossible for me to support other files not tested by me; besides, every version of this package is / will be tweaked for a specific visual model, so please don't try to use it with other models.

If you have any problems using the original Hama file (as described in the README), please report in the "Released" thread.

Rob