Need help in locating a problem please

[ronvking]

OK, please bear with me, this could get to be a long message.

I was happy in running FSX on WinXP SP2 and while not getting any problems it was a bit lumpy at times so when I was able last month I purchased a nice new system (home build) which included an AMD Phenom 1090T x6 CPU and a decent motherboard for it. Also updated the RAM to a 4G single DDR3 dimm.

Reinstalled FSX and it ran OK with some very nice speeds. However seeing that I had a 64bit system I later invested in WIN7 64bit operating system, again ran FSX and all was still fine.

However I started running into various problems with other software and decided to go back to WinXP as dispite what Microsofts written bits and pieces stated they did not run under the capability modes available.

When I went back I decided to fully format the disk (having backed up of course) and start from fresh. First "game" to load was FSX. when I started it it didnt show the normal "first time" bits and didnt show that it was creating the scenery files, config files and after a minute or so gave an error message "The instruction ar "xxxxxx" referenced memory at "xxxxx". The memory could not be read. Click on OK to terminate the program"

The "xxxx" are not the same each time round but it always does this on starting FSX and I get no menus etc.

I have tried various tricks like shutting down services and also starting others up, lowered the RAM's speeds and timings to make it slower in case that was the problem. Down graded the CPU speeds for the same reason. What I cant do is try another RAM chip as no money left in the account until next pay day but have tried it in different slots.

I have later and more extensive games which run OK also running a GX460 graphics card for which I have the latest drivers etc, as indeed does the mother board. I have also gone up to WinXP SP3.

None of these work and an hour long conversation with Micrsoft has not sorted out this problem eithewr, although another is booked.

Given that it did work before on the same operating system I'm at a loss now, can anyone make any suggestions please. I have researched the internet and while this has happened before it seems most cases its after FSX has been running for a while and all sorts of things have been labeled as the fault.

Cheers Ron

[N2056]

Was the FSX install a fresh one, or did you carry over the existing?

[heywooood]

well - on my last rig I had the same problem....it turned out to be the hard drive.

you can try the utility that error checks the drive

first un-install the sim because it is balled up anyway at this point

you will want to tick the box that allows the system to attempt to recover bad sectors

then re-install FSX per the correct and proven method

If you still get the same error I am afraid you most likely have a corrupted or damaged hard drive

I searched everywhere on the net when it happened to me and found very little helpful info - so I feel your pain

[mjrhealth]

The BIG question, where did you install FSX, hopefully not the default location. it will have issues, it needs to go anywhere but in programmes folder, ie create a c:\fsx folder and install it there or another drive, Too much security on programme folders causes no end of issues with addons.

[roger-wilco-66]

[...]
you can try the utility that error checks the drive




I second that. You also could enable the S.M.A.R.T function in the BIOS and look up the entries. If the drive is faulty, I'd trash it.

Another likely source of trouble is malfunctioning RAM or the mainboard. And did you check your CPU temps? How is the system's event logging looking, any clues there?

Cheers, and good luck,
Mark

[ronvking]

Thanks for the idea's so far.

1/ The install was a fresh one, even to the point that the disk was formatted prior to reinstallation of windows.

2/ I have tried the installtion on three different hard drives, no change. All drives are less than one year old and includes one brought with the new system. SMART is enabled.

3/ I don't install to "Program Files" I've alway hated that idea and non utilitiles have there own folders, in the case of FSX it's been C:\FSX or D:\FSX and E:/FSX

4/ CPU temps are OK. Would have thought if that was the problem then I would have other programs play up.

5/ No clues with "Events" checking.

6/ Re motherboard and RAM I'm not seeing any other signs etc and again would have thought other programs would have been causing problems as well. I have Arma2 and thats been running OK at over 50 FPS.

When I tried Microsofts support they remotely looked at my pagesys (thats on an SSD drive thats on F:\) as well as my MFT space etc and didnt comment that they were too small or anything similar.

[roger-wilco-66]

Did you try to move your pagefile to another hdd and see what happens?
Any clues in the event logging yet?

[ronvking]

Hi RW66,

The pagefile has been tried on C:\ (1Tb normal) and F:\ (64Gb SSD), no change still.

As for the event logging, nothing I've found yet butabout to clear that out and have another try to see what it says.

Cheers Ron

[ronvking]

OK, the events logger throws up a message

Application popup: fsx.exe - Application Error : The instruction at "0x7c9108b3" referenced memory at "0x00000578". The memory could not be "read".
Click on OK to terminate the program

For more information, see Help and Support Center at http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp (http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/events.asp).

When I click on that link it takes me to a page which mentions the ntdll.dll and when I click on OK it takes me to a help and support centre page which reads

<TABLE style="WIDTH: 75%; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse" id=TopTable border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=3><TBODY><TR id=tableRowTitle><TD id=tableCellTitle class=tdH1 colSpan=2>Details</TD></TR><TR><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #cccccc thin solid; BORDER-LEFT: #cccccc thin solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f1f1f1; WIDTH: 150px; WHITE-SPACE: nowrap; BORDER-TOP: #cccccc thin solid" class=tdEEMC vAlign=top>Product:</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #cccccc thin solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f1f1f1; BORDER-TOP: #cccccc thin solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #cccccc thin solid" class=tdEEMC align=left>Windows Operating System</TD></TR><TR><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #cccccc thin solid; BORDER-LEFT: #cccccc thin solid; WIDTH: 150px; WHITE-SPACE: nowrap; BORDER-TOP: #cccccc thin solid" class=tdEEMC vAlign=top>ID:</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #cccccc thin solid; BORDER-TOP: #cccccc thin solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #cccccc thin solid" class=tdEEMC align=left>26</TD></TR><TR><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #cccccc thin solid; BORDER-LEFT: #cccccc thin solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f1f1f1; WIDTH: 150px; WHITE-SPACE: nowrap; BORDER-TOP: #cccccc thin solid" class=tdEEMC vAlign=top>Source:</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #cccccc thin solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f1f1f1; BORDER-TOP: #cccccc thin solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #cccccc thin solid" class=tdEEMC align=left>Application Popup</TD></TR><TR><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #cccccc thin solid; BORDER-LEFT: #cccccc thin solid; WIDTH: 150px; WHITE-SPACE: nowrap; BORDER-TOP: #cccccc thin solid" class=tdEEMC vAlign=top>Version:</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #cccccc thin solid; BORDER-TOP: #cccccc thin solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #cccccc thin solid" class=tdEEMC align=left>5.2</TD></TR><TR><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #cccccc thin solid; BORDER-LEFT: #cccccc thin solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f1f1f1; WIDTH: 150px; WHITE-SPACE: nowrap; BORDER-TOP: #cccccc thin solid" class=tdEEMC vAlign=top>Symbolic Name:</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #cccccc thin solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f1f1f1; BORDER-TOP: #cccccc thin solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #cccccc thin solid" class=tdEEMC align=left>STATUS_LOG_HARD_ERROR</TD></TR><TR><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #cccccc thin solid; BORDER-LEFT: #cccccc thin solid; WIDTH: 150px; WHITE-SPACE: nowrap; BORDER-TOP: #cccccc thin solid" class=tdEEMC vAlign=top>Message:</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #cccccc thin solid; BORDER-TOP: #cccccc thin solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #cccccc thin solid" class=tdEEMC align=left>Application popup: %1 : %2</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=2> </TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdH3 colSpan=2>Explanation</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdEEMC colSpan=2>The program could not load a driver because the program user doesn't have sufficient privileges to access the driver or because the drive is missing or corrupt.
</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=2> </TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdH3 colSpan=2>User Action</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdEEMC colSpan=2>To correct this problem:

Ensure that the program user has sufficient privileges to access the directory in which the driver is installed.
Reinstall the program to restore the driver to the correct location.
If these solutions do not work, contact Product Support Services (http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink?linkid=281).
</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=2> </TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=2> </TD></TR><TR><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #cccccc thin solid; BORDER-LEFT: #cccccc thin solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f1f1f1; WIDTH: 150px; WHITE-SPACE: nowrap; BORDER-TOP: #cccccc thin solid" class=tdEEMC vAlign=top>Version:</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #cccccc thin solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f1f1f1; BORDER-TOP: #cccccc thin solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #cccccc thin solid" class=tdEEMC align=left>5.0</TD></TR><TR><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #cccccc thin solid; BORDER-LEFT: #cccccc thin solid; WIDTH: 150px; WHITE-SPACE: nowrap; BORDER-TOP: #cccccc thin solid" class=tdEEMC vAlign=top>Symbolic Name:</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #cccccc thin solid; BORDER-TOP: #cccccc thin solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #cccccc thin solid" class=tdEEMC align=left>status_log_hard_error</TD></TR><TR><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #cccccc thin solid; BORDER-LEFT: #cccccc thin solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f1f1f1; WIDTH: 150px; WHITE-SPACE: nowrap; BORDER-TOP: #cccccc thin solid" class=tdEEMC vAlign=top>Message:</TD><TD style="BORDER-BOTTOM: #cccccc thin solid; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #f1f1f1; BORDER-TOP: #cccccc thin solid; BORDER-RIGHT: #cccccc thin solid" class=tdEEMC align=left>Unable to Load Device Driver : <DRIVER name>device driver could not be loaded.</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=2> </TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdH3 colSpan=2>Explanation</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdEEMC colSpan=2>The program could not load a driver because the program user doesn't have sufficient privileges to access the driver or because the drive is missing or corrupt.
</TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=2> </TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdH3 colSpan=2>User Action</TD></TR><TR><TD class=tdEEMC colSpan=2>To correct this problem:
<LIENSURE that program user has sufficient privileges to access directory in which the driver is installed&#046;< li>
Reinstall the program to restore the driver to the correct location.
If these solutions do not work, contact Product Support Services (http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink?linkid=281).
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

unquote.

Well the drive is there and as I've tried different drives then rules out " the drive is missing or corrupt".

That leaves "The program could not load a driver because the program user doesn't have sufficient privileges to access the driver or because the drive is missing or corrupt" which also confuses me as this was a complete reinstall on a fresh operating system where the drive was formatted first and FSX installed on top of that.

Just about to go into safe mode and check the security settings etc and see what we have there.

Cheers Ron (aka Baffled of Brighton)

[roger-wilco-66]

Ron,

Well, to me this error message seems to show the symptom, not the real cause, as it is often the case. It is a remnant of FSX crashing.

Given the information you've passed on and if hardware defects can be ruled out, I'd say this is a driver or file structure problem. FSX seems to want to read or write something and can't do so. This error also applies to missing or corrupt application files or not enough rights to perform an operation, but the latter should be accompanied by other error messages.

If I were you I'd go back to Win7/64 and sort the other problems out there first - this should be doable. It's the better OS for FSX and you hardware anyway, in my opinion, and as you stated, FSX ran fine under that constellation. Install FSX on a dedicated clean and ideally separate hdd, or a partition on a drive which does not host the OS to circumvent UAC and future fragmentation problems, as well as speed up FSX.
Then give it another try.
If the problem persists under this obviously proven constellation, as you stated, your hardware could have developed a defect between the steps when you changed the OS back to XP. Could be pure coincidence. Then you have to start to swap out components and do extensive testing to find the offending bugger.

Best,
Mark

[ronvking]

Hi Mark,

You have come to the same conclusion that I did the other day but why would two Microsoft products refuse to play together and for them not to know why?

Waiting for Microsoft to call me back so I'll hang on for a while but the other option will be to look into a dual XP and 7 set up so that I can run all I need.

Cheers Ron

[ronvking]

Well just had a 90 min, yep 1 1/2 hours, with microsoft online. We managed to get further forward than I have been but with the same error message as before at the end.

MS have copied various files from my system to look at and they promise to get back with me within 48 hours.

Oh and the best line from them "It appears FSX is not installing correctly" after they had tried various tricks I have already done myself.

I bait with waited breath.

Cheers Ron

[kilo delta]

Also updated the RAM to a 4G single DDR3 dimm.




It'd be better to run 2x2GB or better yet 2x4GB (with a 64bit OS), in order to benefit from the dual channel bandwidth.

[ronvking]

Yes agree, another 4 gig will be purchased after the next pay day. After spending what I did in the first place something had to "hold" for a while.

[ronvking]

Well still no real progress. The 48hrs reply was delayed by MS and they called me at work 24 hrs past the agreed deadline. Finally spoke to them today.

They stated the fault indicated it was a hardware problem saying my drive was the problem, so at their request I backed up all my data, installed XP to the now clean secondary drive and reinstalled FSX....Guess what ...yep, no ferking change and same error. So that rules out a disk problem. Oh well now have to await a further call from them tomorrow for the next move..talk about frustrating but I'm not giving up.

[ronvking]

Hi Folks,

Well it's the final update because I have found a a way round whatever is causing the problem.

I have to say that MS did all they could, spent over 5 hours on the phone on various days but they didnt locate any cause.

I decided to try BIOS settings etc and found that FSX working when I have 4 or less of the 8 cores running on my 1090T AMD CPU. Given that not many things need the 6 cores I'll probally keep that like that.

Thanks for all the suggestions and I hope that if someone has a similar problem they find this thread and that it helps them as well.

Cheers Ron