Libyan Mirage F-1's defect to Malta

[centuryseries]

http://washingtonexaminer.com/news/world/2011/02/libya-air-force-jets-malta-pilots-seek-asylum

[kilo delta]

augJ2EF8Wv4


more pics here... http://www.daylife.com/search/photos/1/grid?q=malta+airport+libyan

[TARPSBird]

Looks like they have rocket pods (?) on the wing stations. They did the right thing by defecting rather than blowing up their own people. Maybe before the week's out we'll see Khadaffi hanging from a street lamp Mussolini style. If it happens I'm buying the first round. :d

[Bjoern]

Been watching Al Jazeera English last night and today (plus Twitter). They've got an awesome coverage of the events. Way, way, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better than the idiots from the german press who are busier nitpicking at missing quotations in our defense minister's doctorate thesis.


Anyways, may the Libyans succeed.


P.S: Muammad is allegedly in Venezuela by now.

P.P.S: This thread shouldn't be closed. What's happening in in the north african arabic states right now ist nothing short of awesome and historic!

P.P.P.S: No rocket pods, but drop tanks.

[Stratobat]

P.P.P.S: No rocket pods, but drop tanks.

Rocket pods.

Regards,
Stratobat

[Quixoticish]

Rocket pods.

Regards,
Stratobat

They do indeed look like rocket pods.

[Matt Wynn]

definately look like MATRA rocket Pods, Mirage F1 has the range on internal tanks to get to Malta easilly...

[Allen]

They do indeed look like rocket pods.


http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0a2B1Hycne7kK/610x.jpg

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/01Uj4AzcB38tO/610x.jpg


They are R-Pods...

"VALLETTA (Reuters) – Two Libyan Air Force fighter pilots defected on Monday and flew their jets to Malta where they told authorities they had been ordered to bomb protesters, Maltese government officials said."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110221/ts_nm/us_libya_protests_malta;_ylt=ApVP3i2woeO53z.f0Be0a IN34T0D;_ylu=X3oDMTJzOGkzbmwyBGFzc2V0A25tLzIwMTEwM jIxL3VzX2xpYnlhX3Byb3Rlc3RzX21hbHRhBHBvcwM0BHNlYwN 5bl9hcnRpY2xlX3N1bW1hcnlfbGlzdARzbGsDdHdvbGlieWFuZ mln

[Stratobat]

Here you go... These should clear up any confusion.

- http://www.airplane-pictures.net/image123006.html

- http://www.airplane-pictures.net/image123011.html

Regards,
Stratobat

[Allen]

Stratobat's link show there not drop tanks.

[thisizma]

I think they're drop tanks. Just kidding.

[deathfromafar]

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0a2B1Hycne7kK/610x.jpg

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/01Uj4AzcB38tO/610x.jpg


They are R-Pods...

"VALLETTA (Reuters) – Two Libyan Air Force fighter pilots defected on Monday and flew their jets to Malta where they told authorities they had been ordered to bomb protesters, Maltese government officials said."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110221/ts_nm/us_libya_protests_malta;_ylt=ApVP3i2woeO53z.f0Be0a IN34T0D;_ylu=X3oDMTJzOGkzbmwyBGFzc2V0A25tLzIwMTEwM jIxL3VzX2xpYnlhX3Byb3Rlc3RzX21hbHRhBHBvcwM0BHNlYwN 5bl9hcnRpY2xlX3N1bW1hcnlfbGlzdARzbGsDdHdvbGlieWFuZ mln


The top photo shows a fully loaded rocket pod. I have heard reports this evening that some Libyan AF assets have fired on different locations inside the country but I have seen no confirmation on that yet.

[Allen]

The top photo shows a fully loaded rocket pod. I have heard reports this evening that some Libyan AF assets have fired on different locations inside the country but I have seen no confirmation on that yet.

Sadly I read the same thing too...

http://www.airplane-pictures.net/news.php?p=929
The link above has 1400x952 of the plane/planes and photos of the two civilian helicopters which flew out of Libya and landed at the same place too!

[wombat666]

Been watching Al Jazeera English last night and today (plus Twitter). They've got an awesome coverage of the events.

*P.P.S: This thread shouldn't be closed. What's happening in in the North African Arabic states right now is nothing short of awesome and historic!


Could not agree more re Al Jazeera and their coverage of most of the North African regional news, I, me, myself, find them to be very even handed.

*As to closing the thread, as always, that remains entirely in the hands of the people who are posting.

[TARPSBird]

Al Jazeera English has a live blog in progress for the Libya unrest, should be a good source of updates as events play out today. Had to laugh at Gadhafi's "I'm not in Venezuela" sound bite while holding his umbrella. Better pack yer bags Mo-Mo. :d

[HvyEng]

It pleases my soul to see the Libyan professional military officers willing to make tough ethical decisions to protect the populous they serve. Good on them!<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
Any bets on how long before two slightly used Mirage F1's w/Rocket pods (and maybe drop-tanks) pop up on E-Bay? I can see the listing now; Buyer protection, 30 day return policy, cool sunglasses not included.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
--Dan<o:p></o:p>

[centuryseries]

While not wishing to sstart a heated debate, I've always seen defectors as being traitors. Afterall the role of the military is to execute the orders of the country's leader, as such 'not being paid to think'.

I do applaud them, it must've taken a load of courage to fly to Malta. Surprised they didn't get shot down by the US Navy on their way across.........thank god we're not back in the eighties where the tension between Libya and the West hit boiling point.

[Astoroth]

While not wishing to sstart a heated debate, I've always seen defectors as being traitors. Afterall the role of the military is to execute the orders of the country's leader, as such 'not being paid to think'.

I do applaud them, it must've taken a load of courage to fly to Malta. Surprised they didn't get shot down by the US Navy on their way across.........thank god we're not back in the eighties where the tension between Libya and the West hit boiling point.


In this circumstance, I would much rather have a couple "traitors" than non-thinking robots willing to bomb their own people just because some dictator desperate to remain in power tells them to.

[centuryseries]

In this circumstance, I would much rather have a couple "traitors" than non-thinking robots willing to bomb their own people just because some dictator desperate to remain in power tells them to.

Totally agree.

[TARPSBird]

Looking at the shots of the F-1's landing in Malta, I was impressed by the material condition of the planes. They looked like they were ready for the airshow circuit. If you're gonna defect you may as well do it in a flashy bird and not some old clapped-out MiG. :d

[centuryseries]

I noticed that too!

I believe if my memory serves me that the Libyans have been repainting their aircraft. I can't remember where I read that, or when but sometime recently over the last 6 months.

[Allen]

<DL><DT>http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/05/Flag_of_Libya.svg/22px-Flag_of_Libya.svg.png Libya (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libya)</DT></DL>

Libyan Air Force (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libyan_Air_Force) received 16 F1AD, 16 F1ED & 6 F1DD aircraft. All were grounded currently but some (12) refurbished and returned back to service.<SUP id=cite_ref-34 class=reference>[35] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Mirage_F1#cite_note-34)</SUP> Of these 12, two have defected to Malta.<SUP id=cite_ref-35 class=reference>[36] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Mirage_F1#cite_note-35)</SUP>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Mirage_F1#Current_operators

[W. Bleddyn]

While not wishing to sstart a heated debate, I've always seen defectors as being traitors. Afterall the role of the military is to execute the orders of the country's leader, as such 'not being paid to think'.

That has only been the role of the military in the distant past, or in totalitarian regimes. In the modern world soldiers/sailors/airmen are expected to think on their feet, and be well educated on their role and the situation.

As for following orders blindly, that is a myth. It is a case of "respondeat superior" (the formal legal term, which is Latin for "Let the Master Answer") more commonly known as Command Responsibility. What that means is, you claim you were just following orders. That is no longer a valid defence legally. If you carry out an unethical order you are criminally liable. This was entered into international law at the Nuremburg trials.

Those pilots did the right thing ethically, and legally.

[Trans_23]

In this circumstance, I would much rather have a couple "traitors" than non-thinking robots willing to bomb their own people just because some dictator desperate to remain in power tells them to.

"We follow orders son. We follow orders, or people die. It's that simple. Are we clear?":salute:

[Bjoern]

Rocket pods.

In the blurry news windows, they looked like tanks.




While not wishing to sstart a heated debate, I've always seen defectors as being traitors. Afterall the role of the military is to execute the orders of the country's leader, as such 'not being paid to think'.

The Bundeswehr has a clause that lets you get away with refusing to follow your CO's orders should they be something along the lines of "Shoot those civilians!".

Also, I was sworn in to serve the people and not some coming and going leaders.

[kilo delta]

I've read some reports that the Mirages were also carrying bombs which were either jettisoned or dropped on Libyan targets prior to the aircraft heading to Malta.

[deathfromafar]

I'm not sure what assets are in the area but word is a temporary No-Fly-Zone (on Libyan Military Aircraft) with CAP flights is getting ready to go into effect(a rumor out of the Pentagon at this point). Aviano is over 900+ nautical miles North away from Libyan shores so I'd bet the CBG in the region is being repositioned. All this unrest in the area plus the Iranian warships transiting Suez could end up being interesting to keep an eye on.

[kilo delta]

Some reports of Libyan naval assets transiting towards Malta too...possibly defecting.

[fsafranek]

The Mirage F1 isn't plumbed for fuel on the outer pylons. Those are Matra SNEB rocket pods (68mm). And definitely armed, fins are clearly visible. If they weren't and the front air flow caps weren't in place you could look right down the open tubes. Don't know about bombs but the flight log would verify that. I'd certainly get rid of them to conserve fuel.

My understanding is that they flew from their normal base to another where they were armed and fueled and got their orders. Once they had their orders these two pilots obviously decided they didn't sign on for that type mission and flew under the radar towards Malta, about 200 miles away and well within the range on internal fuel alone (perhaps not at sea level though). So the low on fuel declaration may or may not have been true. Declaring an emergency does get you number one position though and does indicate that you aren't there as an aggressor. So now Malta has a fighter component to their air force (for a while anyway). :salute:

Despite the whole situation around this flight I just think it's awesome to see a couple freshly refurbished Mirage F1ED's still flying.
:ernae:

[Bjoern]

My understanding is that they flew from their normal base to another where they were armed and fueled and got their orders. Once they had their orders these two pilots obviously decided they didn't sign on for that type mission and flew under the radar towards Malta, about 200 miles away and well within the range on internal fuel alone (perhaps not at sea level though). So the low on fuel declaration may or may not have been true. Declaring an emergency does get you number one position though and does indicate that you aren't there as an aggressor.

That's what they did.



Anyways, Al Jazeera has it that a further libyan AF jet is unavailable for attacks on demonstrants, since the crew preferred to punch out instead of carrying out their assigned mission.

[kilo delta]

That's what they did.



Anyways, Al Jazeera has it that a further libyan AF jet is unavailable for attacks on demonstrants, since the crew preferred to punch out instead of carrying out their assigned mission.

Cue Gaddafi ordering that ejection seat pins be left in place for future ops! :D

[TARPSBird]

Wow, I commend them for not attacking their own people but punching out is pretty extreme. I wonder at what point in the ejection sequence they realized it would have been better to stay in the plane and fly it to a friendly field. :d

[Allen]

Well if the pilot puches out, his plane will never be used by ANY sides to attack civs.

[kilo delta]

Well if the pilot puches out, his plane will never be used by ANY sides to attack civs.


True...but there are other,less extreme, ways of disabling an aircraft

:d :)

[alain95]

Cue Gaddafi ordering that ejection seat pins be left in place for future ops! :D

Now this is Kadahfi who is sitted on a ejection seat ! :gameoff:

32230

[hae5904]

The Bundeswehr has a clause that lets you get away with refusing to follow your CO's orders should they be something along the lines of "Shoot those civilians!".

Also, I was sworn in to serve the people and not some coming and going leaders.

Same as when I was in the service (for 23 yrs). Though the clause was simply known as the Geneva Conventions.

Bombing your own civilians is a act of murder, not an act of war.

Cheers.

[Bjoern]

Cue Gaddafi ordering that ejection seat pins be left in place for future ops! :D

He's losing grip day by day, so he has more important stuff on his mind.




Wow, I commend them for not attacking their own people but punching out is pretty extreme. I wonder at what point in the ejection sequence they realized it would have been better to stay in the plane and fly it to a friendly field. :d

If I was the loyal part of the Libyan AF, I wouldn't allow anyone to defect anymore and rather shoot him down.
Just sayin'.




Bombing your own civilians is a act of murder, not an act of war.


True.

[Stratobat]

If I was the loyal part of the Libyan AF, I wouldn't allow anyone to defect anymore and rather shoot him down.
Just sayin'.

Problem with shooting down defectors is that by the time you realise they're defecting, they're already gone :p:

Regards,
Stratobat

[Allen]

Give that the planes in Q were only armed for Air to Ground. I bet even if they know that there were defecting it may have done them no good. I know theres the MG but I would Q there skill at that.

[Bjoern]

Problem with shooting down defectors is that by the time you realise they're defecting, they're already gone :p:

True for cities close to neighbouring countries, but place them a bit further inland and you could get an idea about the intention early enough to alert coastal SAM batteries or other interceptors.

[kilo delta]

I was wondering when the SF's would be deployed..


Breaking News8:41pm UK, Saturday February 26, 2011

British Forces Rescue 150 Workers From Libya

British special forces have rescued 150 foreign nationals from desert locations in conflict-torn Libya, Defence Secretary Liam Fox has said.

The civilians were taken to safety by two RAF Hercules planes after being picked up from three oil installations south of the city of Benghazi.

The daring mission was carried out by members of the Special Boat Service.

Hundreds of British oil workers have been stranded at camps in Libya amid the continuing revolt against dictator Colonel Muammar Gaddafi.

Both planes have since landed in Malta, the Ministry of Defence said. It is not known how many are British citizens, but they will be flown back to the UK on Sunday or Monday by chartered plane.

Glyn Jones, one of the Britons rescued by the planes, told Sky News the mood among those rescued was "jubilant".

Meanwhile, the operations of the British Embassy in Tripoli have been temporarily suspended and its staff evacuated on a Government-chartered flight, which has taken off for Gatwick with 53 British nationals on board.

A Foreign Office (FCO) spokesperson said: "In light of the deteriorating situation in Libya, and as our last FCO charter flight has now left Tripoli, we have temporarily suspended the operations of the British Embassy in Tripoli.

"Its staff left today - some of them, with our Rapid Deployment Team from Tripoli Airport, on that charter flight.

"The Turkish government will now temporarily represent British interests in Libya."

The FCO earlier said some 600 British nationals had been helped to leave Libya via planes, a Royal Navy warship and ferries.

The HMS Cumberland is now on its way back to Benghazi to pick up more people after dropping 68 Britons off in Malta, from where they were flown to Gatwick.

The destroyer HMS York has also been deployed to the area as a standby.

Many of those returning have described the chaotic scenes gripping the oil-rich nation, where anti-government protests have left as many as 1,000 people dead in the past week.

One has told of the terrifying moment he was robbed at gunpoint amid violent clashes in crisis-hit country.

Richard Weeks was among 207 people from over 20 nations, on board the naval frigate which sailed from the second city of Benghazi.


http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Libya-British-Special-Forces-Rescue-150-Workers-From-Libyan-Desert/Article/201102415941447?lpos=World_News_Carousel_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15941447_Libya:_British_Special_Forces _Rescue_150_Workers_From_Libyan_Desert_

[falcon409]

I'm thrilled to see Gadaffi finally on his way out. What I'm watching on TV right now is somewhat reminiscent of the goings on there during the Egyptian/Israeli (7 Day War). I was stationed at the Base in Tripoli which is now designated Mitiga. . .at that time it was Wheelus AFB. I'm seeing a lot of aerial shots and street images that bring back a lot of memories of my time there. King Idris was the ruler then and his Nephew (referred to as the "Black Prince" at that time) was next in line. . . .but along came Gadaffi and his henchmen and that was all she wrote from '69 until now.

It wouldn't pain me in the least to see him and his son being dragged triumphantly through the streets and dumped unceremoniously into the Med. Bye bye, Mo Mo.:wavey:

[wiltzei]

The Seattle Times: Malta refusing to return Libyan fighter jets (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2014363805_apeumaltalibya.html)

[Allen]

Ha ha ha!

They should try Ebay!