Suspicions

[KellyB]

I've got a sort of mission going in which two stukas attack two british merchant ships unless my wingmates and I can down them first.

the goal for the ships is "Must Survive" and if the stukas get them, the goal registers as failed.

If I get the stukas, then that goal to destroy them resolves as completed, but the goal for the ships never registers as success, and the mission finishes with me returning to base with one goal to go.

So, my suspicion is that ships don't succeed even though they get from the first to the last way point with no damage. (The distance between those waypoints, by the way, is 0.1NM).

Just the way it is? Or have I missed something?

Thanks.

[HouseHobbit]

Hi kelly,
Yes the "Must Survive" is a trick..
Rarely have I seen this work out as it is meant to..

Most every mission I have build, trying to use this has ended in a mission failure. Even when I get the goal and fly home..
It seems to be something that I should have addressed and sorted out a bit ago..
i shall as i can sort this out and find a way to solve this in CFS3..
The game engine doesn't seem to like the "Must Survive" and i shall address this as I can..
thanks for the heads up on this..
I hope that someone already has worked around this,, if not i will do my best to sort it out..

[Led Zeppelin]

Everything that have a 'Must Survive' mission goal must reach all their waypoints to have this goal successfully completed.

This is why it will never work with a vehicule/ship that don't move or a facility.

For a vehicule/ship, they must have a very short distance to do because when you wrap, they don't move. They must achieve their 'Must Survive' mission goal while player is in the area.

[KellyB]

Everything that have a 'Must Survive' mission goal must reach all their waypoints to have this goal successfully completed.

This is why it will never work with a vehicule/ship that don't move or a facility.

For a vehicule/ship, they must have a very short distance to do because when you wrap, they don't move. They must achieve their 'Must Survive' mission goal while player is in the area.

LZ, that makes perfect sense to me. And it is essentially what i've done. Two ships traveling a distance of 0.1NM from waypoint 1 to waypoint 2. If i don't get the stukas and they bomb the ships, I will get a failure message. If i get the stukas and they don't bomb the ships, no message at all -- it just remains a goal in progress.

I'll try hanging around over the ships for a couple of minutes, long enough for them to go 0.1NM at 11 knots, and see what happens. It occurs to me that cfs3 may not be able to deal with such short distances???

[KellyB]

So here's what I've done:

1. set two ju88's (I mistakenly said ju87's before) to attack two Brit merchant ships.
2. set three Hurri's to intercept them.
3. set the goal for the Ju88's to be destroyed.
4. set the goal for the merchants to survive.
5. placed two windmills at the end waypoint for the ships so I could see when they arrived at
final waypoint. Set them up as a sort of finish line either side of the route.

Results:
If I allow the Ju88's to attack and bomb the merchants, I get a "goal failed" message.
If I get the Ju88's and follow the merchants to their "finish line" I get no message at all, and end up back at base with 1 goal to go.


Conclusion:
Failure messages apply to other elements of the sim than player aircraft.

Survival messages seem to be reserved for player aircraft and don't apply to any other elements of the sim, like facilities or vehicles.

As O-1 Driver observed elsewhere, it is truly ironic that survival isn't rewarded in the sim.

If others can repeat my findings, then they will be confirmed. Without being able to access the code, it's truly anybody's guess what M$oft had in mind when they wrote it.

[HouseHobbit]

Yes the Must Survive, is a trick the game engine likes to play with your minds with.. :banghead:

I NEVER USE IT.. Because it is so crazy...:a1310:

You just never know what will happen..:angryfir:

I have had missions it works in But they are very limited..
I don't trust the setting to play out always correctly..
I have tried many different mission set ups and had little success with this..
I am sorry to say...:crybaby:

I haven't given up, I will continue to work on this, perhaps I may yet trick the game engine to play nice..

Remember trust a smiling Computer..

[Led Zeppelin]

Interesting.


Survival messages seem to be reserved for player aircraft and don't apply to any other elements of the sim, like facilities or vehicles.
No, it also work for AI aircrafts.

Exemple with ETO_Ramrod 50: Morlaix (http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/local_links.php?s=&catid=70&keyid=&nameid=&page=1&pp=15&sort=d

In the escort mission, AI bombers must survive. Their final waypoint is just after the escort detach waypoint. So, you get the mission goal complete there.
Have a look.

I've done the same in the pack I'll upload soon and it is working.

[KellyB]

To HH: I assume you mean Never trust a smiling computer! :icon_lol:

To LZ about the AI Aircraft: Yes, of course; I should have thought of that! Now that you mention it, I've seen it in other bomber missions where I fly as escort. It's like there should be a sort of jumper wire we could attach between aircraft and ships and vehicles and facilities to give them credit for having survived. Oh well.

Thanks for your thoughts on this, guys.