Which will be better... CS weapons for FSX or VRS Tacpack

[brettt777]

So I am wondering which will be better, Captain Sims weapons for FSX or VRS TacPack. TacPack seems to have more functionality from what I can see but at least initially, it will be just for the VRS Superbug. CS weapons can apparently be put on other aircraft but may not have as much functionality as Tacpack...? (no MP) I was gonna preorder Tacpack but maybe I'll wait a bit to see how CS weapons fairs. Just wondering what others think.
BTW, congrats to the Green Bay Packers on their victory over the Pittsburg "Steal"ers in Superbowl VL!

[YoYo]

For me wrong camparision. TacPac will be dedicated exactly for Superbug - so if we take VR Superbug and Default F/A-18 You have an answer. If You think if we talk about the "winner" - must campare two addons for another airplane than F-18. Now TacPac will have function only for Hornet (so if You user of Superbug in most - buy TacPac). CS product is more open now and more flexible, editable (we'll see with TP). MP with CS WforFSX will be add in the future (but for MP & TacPac two persons must have this program + F-18, perhaps with CS Weapon will be too same).

[kcgb]

But a later release of the Tacpac will be able to be intergrated into any aircraft.

[YoYo]

But a later release of the Tacpac will be able to be intergrated into any aircraft.

As in later MP in CS addon ;) .

[CodyValkyrie]

As far as I know, CS never promised it. They only said they would look at it if sales are good.

[kcgb]

And I don't think sales are going to be amazing.

[flyer01]

To have both is for the best for everyone.

CS needs to do there thing and VRS need to do there thing.

With CS coming out with this when thy did-------- with it ready for all planes is a big advance for them . I give CS weapons a 4 out of 5 stars. When the sound for the guns get fixed in my install an ez 5.

I'm sure VRS will be a great addon for the SB when it comes out. CS just beat them to the market with the capability of put it on all planes.

flyer01

[Francois]

Personally I think the ONLY reason to own such an expansion is to be able to use it in Multi-player and have 3rd party devs using it on ANY vehicle and object.

So far neither is providing that yet..... but we're heading in the right direction :-)

[Lewis-A2A]

Personally I think the ONLY reason to own such an expansion is to be able to use it in Multi-player and have 3rd party devs using it on ANY vehicle and object.

So far neither is providing that yet..... but we're heading in the right direction :-)

Pretty much sums it up for me, Multiplayer is the real application I can see for this. Meeting up with a few chaps online and having a bit of a giggle to make a change from A-B flights.

[HvyEng]

I purchased the CS version, I like it, but it is a 3 star for me. It loses points via the goofy popup panel (to cartoonish for me) and the generic hud. I am a supebug owner and pre-ordered the VRS package; I look forward to trying it out.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
For me the eventual winner will be decided by the hud. IMHO a modifiable hud & drop in radar system that will at least generally (color, layout, info presented) match my intended setup will be the ultimate. I.E. the F-4 didn't have the same info presented as the F-15, likewise the F-8 and F/A-18 were completely different. I'm hoping the third iteration of the VRS pack will accomplish this.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
The perfect setup for me: an F-8 Crusader with correct HUD style.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
--Dan<o:p></o:p>

[YoYo]

Personally I think the ONLY reason to own such an expansion is to be able to use it in Multi-player

Im not sure for FSX Multiplayer + dogfight and this kind of tools. Sim is open. You can create what You want. You can edit what You need. So no problem to create cheets , super bombs, missiles ect. => reason for me, only sim with closed struture is good idea to Combat MP like: RoF, DCS, IL-2 (CoD) series ect. FSX only - for civil traffic (Single, Multi), combat missions (but coperation, Multi), missions with AI. Not for dogfights in my opinion.

[Francois]

YoYo, I am not too worried about that. This is a 'simulator' and not a game. IMHO people simulating military operations with it will be serious, or go to the on-line shoot-em-ups. The MP servers will also be controlled, not allowing cheaters in a 'club'.

Of course dedicated 'sims' like Flashpoint, Lomac and others are better in the 'game' area and graphics, but there still is NO other simulator in the world that could give you total free global operations. So there is definitely a 'market' for these things. I agree it is not for 'everybody' though.

[IanP]

I think you're being highly optimistic about not having cheaters and modders, Francois. I tend to refer to them as "kids", but actually people of all ages that I know want to win at any cost, or see it as fun to cause grief to others. Go and look at EvE or one of the other MMOGs where player-versus-player combat cannot be opted out of and you'll find plenty of high-level characters that do nothing but hang around the "enemy" starter areas killing people with lower level ships/characters and who have no response.

I also had another World of Tanks round last night that was wrecked before it started by someone in a medium tank (so he must have been there a while and not been a new player) taking out tanks from his own side the moment the battle started. You kick them out, they create a new account and do it again. EvE actually actively encourages them.

I'm more than happy to have combat in a sim like FSX, X-Plane or when it appears Flight! - I just want it to be a separate add-on, kept away from those who don't want it, and very definitely not part of the base package. I really do know how important that "U" certificate on the front of the box is, however much those who demand combat be included may scoff.

Personally, I think that the CS and VRS packages, at time of release, will be catering for different markets, so neither will be "better". However as others have already said, they're both certainly heading in the right direction.

Ian P.

[Warrant]

Dunno which one is or will me better. I have maximum fun with the CS one, and the other is not released yet (as far as i know). As for FSX not being a shooter game but a simulator.....
You bet ya! If it was/is a shooter-game, i would be able to counter guided weapons engagements with chaff, flares and jamming in multiplayer. Which is not the case. For old time warriors (only using guns and unguided weapons) it could become a shooter though!


:jump:

[Francois]

Ian, that's why I am referring to the word 'club'. I don't see serious gaming as something 'open' to the masses, but rather confined to controlled groups of people thereby being able to close the environment off to perpetrators. Much like virtual airlines and limited access military 'clans'.

[IanP]

Yes, Francois, that's very true - but that also requires that locked-down servers exist and that the add-ons only work on those servers.

If CS or VRS Weapons are locked down to only work on specific servers, or specific rooms within servers, then that would be fine, but how would you control access if they worked in all multiplayer sessions, regardless of how and where they are hosted?

Probably the best way to do it would be to only have the damage effects implemented if both involved parties had the add-on installed, and enabled, I'd have thought?

Ian P.

[empeck]

Ian, that's why I am referring to the word 'club'. I don't see serious gaming as something 'open' to the masses, but rather confined to controlled groups of people thereby being able to close the environment off to perpetrators. Much like virtual airlines and limited access military 'clans'.

I agree. Flying TacPack with close friends will be fun. I'm not interested in pointless airquake anyway.

I have SuperBug, and I have CS planes. Considering their quality, and attachment of developers to their products I think TacPack will be much superior. VRS guys looks like real fans of military aviation, CS acts like a heartless corporation. I've bought CS pack, I will certainly buy TacPack. When I'll have both I'll be able to compare them directly.

With TacPack it should be possible to set-up combat mission with anti-aircraft threats in single player. Add MP (with carriers available in MP outside the missions), and I'm sold :)

[YoYo]

It will be funny if for expample Captain Sim will create better AIM-9X than Vertical Reality :jump: and You will prefer it (if in 2016 this 2 addons will be compatible ;) )
Armaments race from Cold war again :monkies:


Agree too. Only MP sesion in FSX with any Combat addons only with friends. Not for Mass servers with killers for points ;) (its not FS series role)

[Warrant]

Agree too. Only MP sesion in FSX with any Combat addons only with friends. Not for Mass servers with killers for points ;) (its not FS series role)

Yup, agree too!

I think there might be a future role here for/at SOH to host such combat only MP sessions, since it IS a Combat Flight Center ( if looking closely to the logo left top window :-))

:ernae::jump::bump:

[empeck]

Yup, agree too!

I think there might be a future role here for/at SOH to host such combat only MP sessions, since it IS a Combat Flight Center ( if looking closely to the logo left top window :-))

:ernae::jump::bump:

:ernae:

[IanP]

Again, agree completely. I can't think of any more appropriate place to host a whole horde of appropriate period and themed virtual Squadrons. ;)

Ian P.

[peter12213]

Well I'm thinking of buying the CS pack to put on the skysim hawk and a few others however I was just wondering how hard/easy it is to add them to your aircraft?

[CodyValkyrie]

Im not sure for FSX Multiplayer + dogfight and this kind of tools. Sim is open. You can create what You want. You can edit what You need. So no problem to create cheets , super bombs, missiles ect. => reason for me, only sim with closed struture is good idea to Combat MP like: RoF, DCS, IL-2 (CoD) series ect. FSX only - for civil traffic (Single, Multi), combat missions (but coperation, Multi), missions with AI. Not for dogfights in my opinion.

This is precisely why VRS is working to keep such things "safe" from a multiplayer perspective. This is being addressed to keep things balanced.

Jon and VRS have already broken a lot of ground never thought before in FS, and I have full faith he will continue to do so. I also speak from the perspective of someone that HAS had access to VRS' work in regards to the weapons pack.

I digress. I clearly have a dog in the fight.

[flyer01]

Well I'm thinking of buying the CS pack to put on the skysim hawk and a few others however I was just wondering how hard/easy it is to add them to your aircraft?

Very ez. You have a Loader you can put on your decktop . That will open up a window that will show all the drivable or planes you have. You find the plane you want push enter and that is IT. you can unload the weapons the same way. Very ez.

flyer01:salute:

[brettt777]

Very ez. You have a Loader you can put on your decktop . That will open up a window that will show all the drivable or planes you have. You find the plane you want push enter and that is IT. you can unload the weapons the same way. Very ez.

flyer01:salute:

When you put these weapons on another aircraft, say for instance, the Alphasim F-5E, do the weapons actualy appear on the aircraft and then launch or fall properly when fired? The reason I ask is that maybe I misunderstood but when I looked at the CS weapons demos I kind of got the impression that you only got the weapons effects from a cockpit perspective. Maybe I didn't look close enough so I apologize in advance if this is kind of a "duh!" question.

[IanP]

They do not appear on the aircraft model, no. The weapon is generated when fired, then visibly tracks to the target (if guided).

The other "issue" with what flyer01 says is that if you add weapons that way and do not modify the xml file, your, say, Spitfire, will have about four each of about eight different kinds of missiles and six different guns. If you want to change that, you'll have to manually edit the XML file.

Ian P.

[flyer01]

They do not appear on the aircraft model, no. The weapon is generated when fired, then visibly tracks to the target (if guided).

The other "issue" with what flyer01 says is that if you add weapons that way and do not modify the xml file, your, say, Spitfire, will have about four each of about eight different kinds of missiles and six different guns. If you want to change that, you'll have to manually edit the XML file.

Ian P.

Ian P thanK you for answering that.

I did not see that question.

What happens is, when you select the loader------- and the plane------- then add to the plane. the loader makes a copy of the master unit Dat file into a XML file and puts it into what plane you want.

I don't know if the plane gets all the weight of the weapons that are in the XML or not or just when you select them from the weapons window while your in the sim.

Now if you want to make each plane you have with its own weapons load you do that after you add the weapons to the plane. But Remember that the master unit Dat file did not change after you changed the xml file in the plane. If you unload and load it will change the xml back to what the master unit Dat file has in it.

This is a fun addon to have and to tinker with until the next toy comes along.LOL


flyer01:salute:

[IanP]

It can't add the weight, otherwise with four Kormorans, four Sparrows, six Sidewinders, six SRAAMs, a dozen or so other A-A missiles, four guns randing in size from an M60C to an M61, two HARMs, some other A-G missiles...

...good grief, how would my poor little Spitfire Ia have ever left the ground? :d

This is one of the reasons that I still say this is only a half-way house. It's where Tacpack will initially be better as well, even if only with the VRS Hornet (which can already do what this does anyway, but the VRS pack is locked to one aircraft, where this can be used with anything).

I think this will take quite a lot of work to get to where it really needs to be, but it's a perfectly usable start, if they can iron out some of the more glaring issues.

Cheers,

Ian P.

[flyer01]

IanP,
What you say. For the people that don't want to get the SBug this is the best way to go. This can be fit to any plane with out having the Sbug and the TacPack.

Now I think that the TacPack will in time be better. I have the Sbug and it is the most advanced plane IMO out there.
There needs to be a loader for the TacPack made just like the CS pack. That would be the best thing.

flyer01:salute:

[brettt777]

This is one of the reasons that I still say this is only a half-way house. It's where Tacpack will initially be better as well, even if only with the VRS Hornet (which can already do what this does anyway, but the VRS pack is locked to one aircraft, where this can be used with anything).

Cheers,

Ian P.

We will eventually be able to implement the VRS tacpack onto other aircraft although it looks like to do so you would need a bit of modification knowledge.

[IanP]

The key word being eventually.

This is my whole point about the stupidity of trying to argue which one is better. Right now, you don't need the CS pack to shoot down the AI in the VRS Super Bug. It does it already.

When Tacpack is released, you will be able to shoot down other Superbugs in multiplayer... but only in the Superbug. Eventually you may be able to use it in other aircraft. We have no proof, positive or negative.

Right now, you can shoot down the AI in any aircraft using the CS Weapons pack. You can't us it in multiplayer, it lacks some other features (weight changes, visual model effects), but works on any aircraft. Eventually you may well be able to use it in multiplayer and it may have weight and visual model effects. Once again, though, we have no proof, positive or negative.

So therefore the two products are not directly compatible. Eventually they may well be, but right now, they're not. Therefore any argument about which is better or worse is utterly moot.

Ian P.

[brettt777]

Okay I gave in and bought CS weapons and preordered VRS weapons. I didn't have much chance to go over the manual but it didn't take much to figure out how to fire the guns or rockets. But every time I fired the gun, the audio would stick so it sounded like the gun was firing constantly even though it only fired when I held the trigger. The audio would stay stuck until I would get completely out of the flight. Very annoying...

[flyer01]

http://www.captainsim.org/yabb2/YaBB.pl

This is a problem with the pack.

flyer01:salute:

[flyer01]

I'm not part of there customer support. But this is what I did to get the sound to work. Or you can just take the sound wav. out until thy get a patch for this.
CS is working on this.

To get your gun sound to stop after you shoot the guns.

Go to C:\Program Files\Microsoft Games\Microsoft Flight Simulator X\Captain_Sim\weapon\loader\cfg

Back up your unit dat file .
Then open it in notepad and find loopEnd="1.3059" on your guns.

just change the loopEnd="1.3059" to loopEnd="0.000" .

Do this to all your guns AND JUST YOUR GUNS. lol

This will Stop the guns sound from staying on. Thy are still not the way thy should be but much better.

I had to take this also out of the sound folder or it will stay on sometimes------ csweapon_mg_bullet_land1. wav

I hope this helps. It worked on my PC.

flyer01:salute:

[brettt777]

I'm not part of there customer support. But this is what I did to get the sound to work. Or you can just take the sound wav. out until thy get a patch for this.
CS is working on this.

To get your gun sound to stop after you shoot the guns.

Go to C:\Program Files\Microsoft Games\Microsoft Flight Simulator X\Captain_Sim\weapon\loader\cfg

Back up your unit dat file .
Then open it in notepad and find loopEnd="1.3059" on your guns.

just change the loopEnd="1.3059" to loopEnd="0.000" .

Do this to all your guns AND JUST YOUR GUNS. lol

This will Stop the guns sound from staying on. Thy are still not the way thy should be but much better.

I had to take this also out of the sound folder or it will stay on sometimes------ csweapon_mg_bullet_land1. wav

I hope this helps. It worked on my PC.

flyer01:salute:

Well thanks for the info but unfortunately it didn't work for me. :( If I use the M61 and do really short bursts it seems to work okay and doesn't stay on but anything more than a split second trigger pull makes it stick.