BEGINNING OF THE END....?

[beana51]

<hr class="hr" width="100%" size="1"> Beginning of the end ,or the end of the beginning?..Air war,impersonal,from a desk,a push of a button,death and Destruction,then a coffee break,and a chat around the water cooler!

Chivalry in the air gone,If it ever existed at all, no more hero's, no more villains,no more myth's....while war is hell, it is personnel.and a thing to be learned and to be avoided....

Now its becoming antiseptic,no blood,sweat ,or tears,...Like we behind a PC screen,the new terror weapon of tomorrow! this method available to any potential enemy.

When a nation loses its myths,and hero's ,that nation is no more!!
Brave new world??.....I do not think so!



http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2160/12906442/23585855/395011231.jpg


Prototype of X-47B Navy unmanned jet

A prototype of the X-47B Navy unmannded jet. The robotic, bat-winged bomber designed to take off from a US aircraft carrier has passed its first test in a debut flight in California, the US Navy said.…
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[scottmm73]

I know exactly what you mean. Being a flight training developer, with the US Army, it's interesting to see how the UAS/UAV community has taken an interest to the higher ups. They're already prototyping a unmanned blackhawk. However, I can't see a infantry guy wanting to crawl into one of those things for an air assault.

The pro's...look how much the government will save in not paying flight pay to all the pilots.

[kilo delta]

The pro's...look how much the government will save in not paying flight pay to all the pilots.

Dunno about that. Whilst the pilot might not be on board the aircraft, it still has to be flown by him/her from a remote location.

[Bone]

That's a good point, KD, someone has to fly it. However, in the future it's not going to be a fully trained pilot. The USAF is developing a UAV operator(pilot) training program that is specific to just UAV flying. Up until now, guys with wings have been flying UAV's, but that's alot of training $$$ spent just to have a guy sit in a trailer and yank on the joy stick.

The tactical pilot profession is on it's last legs. Say goodbye to the hero's and Top Gun music!

Disclaimer: Sorry if I'm telling you something you already know.

[stiz]

Say goodbye to the hero's and Top Gun music!


I for one, wont miss the 2nd one bit! :icon_lol:

[kilo delta]

That's a good point, KD, someone has to fly it. However, in the future it's not going to be a fully trained pilot. The USAF is developing a UAV operator(pilot) training program that is specific to just UAV flying. Up until now, guys with wings have been flying UAV's, but that's alot of training $$$ spent just to have a guy sit in a trailer and yank on the joy stick.

The tactical pilot profession is on it's last legs. Say goodbye to the hero's and Top Gun music!

Disclaimer: Sorry if I'm telling you something you already know.


But....they'll still be wearing flying suits...right??? ;p :d

Maybe Microsoft can develop a new CFS in co-operation with the USAF? Online multiplayer play only...but with the responsibility of using real ordnance on "hot" battlefields.

[Bone]

But....they'll still be wearing flying suits...right??? ;p :d



It just may be the end of the line for flight suits and cool patch's....flush...swirl...there it goes.

[aeromed202]

Sadly, the cleaner they make the weapons and the war the more apt they will be to take that avenue rather than the often harder work of diplomacy. Few wars have in my opinion been truly necessary. Reminds me of the Star Trek episode A Taste of Armageddon. Removing the horror makes the waging of war too easy.

[Bjoern]

Maybe Microsoft can develop a new CFS in co-operation with the USAF? Online multiplayer play only...but with the responsibility of using real ordnance on "hot" battlefields.

...and getting mugshots of those killed on the ground via email?

No,thanks.




Sadly, the cleaner they make the weapons and the war the more apt they will be to take that avenue rather than the often harder work of diplomacy. Few wars have in my opinion been truly necessary. Reminds me of the Star Trek episode A Taste of Armageddon. Removing the horror makes the waging of war too easy.

My thoughts exactly.

[Jen]

Sadly, the cleaner they make the weapons and the war the more apt they will be to take that avenue rather than the often harder work of diplomacy. Few wars have in my opinion been truly necessary. Reminds me of the Star Trek episode A Taste of Armageddon. Removing the horror makes the waging of war too easy.

In a few words, you have put your finger exactly on the problems with this new type of "warfare".

1) It is very "clean", and no casualties on "our" side.

2) The press will never bring any disturbing pictures of the results of some hellfire missiles
slamming into a remote mountain village.

3) The attacks will often be carried out on the basis of lousy, second hand, hear say
intelligence.
And the result will be very difficult to verify, so it will always be "suspected terrorists", that
was killed.
And when they are actually lucky to hit some really "bad guys", they have a nasty habit
of turning up alive and well a couple of month later.
And nobody ask´s the question: well, just who did we then kill???

4) If it turns out, that it was a house full of innocent people, including women and children, it
will be almost impossible to hold anybody responsible for it. And most certainly, nobody will
have have any interest in trying to. Collateral damage, bad luck, whatever....!
In my book, it comes close to plain murder.


So "the brave new world" has already begun, and I am afraid it`s going to end up in something, that we are going to regret.

No doubt "the masters of war" are already deeply in love with the concept. But who says that these things, will only be used in far remote places??

Will all of you like to live under the watchfull eye`s of these maschines?

Will all of you feel "safer" with these things humming around in the sky above you, looking for "bad guys"?

I don`t think so. And I think it will be mighty difficult to get rid of them again


Jen

[Cazzie]

Somewhere in the deep think tanks of the dark World, there are people thinking of ways to disrupt satellite signals, that's all it would take to render something like that ineffective and moot.

Caz

[wombat666]

A gentle reminder people......try and avoid the 'Politics' please.
:monkies:
And yes Caz, nothing is really 100% secure.

[beana51]

..Patton in the movie said it best I thought...



We're told of "wonder weapons"
the Germans were working on:

Long-range rockets,
push-button bombing. ?. .

. .weapons that don't need soldiers?

"Wonder weapon"?

.My God, I don't see
the wonder in them.

Killing without heroics. Nothing
is glorified, nothing is reaffirmed.

No heroes, no cowards, no troops.

No generals.?

Only those that are left alive
and those that are left. . .. . .dead.

I would add to that..no Honor!

Unfortunately War provides us with myths and hero's.....from Homer's Iliad and Odyssey .to Lets Say "D" DAY,that's how we are......a Nation needs Hero's and Myths, For like "JOESPH CAMPBELL' in his book the power of the myth,indicates a nation with out Myths is a nation no more..

The Very core of this site,the celebration of War,in the planes,of the times,provides us with the never ending myths,and hero's we need1...of course some do not participate in this..but Who Can turn Away from a a Great B-17 , Stuka dive Bomber Mustang,and not connect the dots..these were KILLERS.with men Hands on in the action,with fear in their hearts,,and the Heroics born from it!.and we love them!.And So do I, All of em,.one merely looks at the great AVATARS here to reaffirm that!

So we will invent new Hero's ,a kid sitting in front of the coolest Flight Sim ever,..like some Video game,mashes a BUTTON..and OOOPS...there goes another Rubber Tree plant...Then off to The water Cooler and to receive the accolades of his fellow Nerds.....New Heroes!..Warriors,Men of Courage,fearless leaders,....I wonder?..maby to we Flight Simmers in Our Walter Mitty world.? As we now have the really cool, Captainsims Weapons to kill with,Bloodless but Of Course,and in Instant replay,for further macabre gratification of the destruction!...but no RED BARONS do I see here,no honor,and no Chivalry!.Myths ,Hero's?......Could be That old warrior PATTON was correct!!.............enjoying all comments here..great stuff!....

[magoo]

One of the greatest deterents to war is the price. The price in all regards.

Find a way to wage war economically, the risk of gratuitous based conflict goes up.

The interesting thing about remote piloted aircraft, is that nobody seems to discuss the technology a potential oppenent would develop to jam or hijack the controller's signal.

It not only bothers me that technologies are developing to wage long range, remotely located war on the cheap, but that control of the same technology could (in theory) swap hands right over your head.

Price of life goes up as the value of life goes down, all fleeting and without warranty or true promise. It's a really badly written opera.

[Panther_99FS]

In my book, it comes close to plain murder.


Jen

Make sure you tell that to the people & families of those who happened to be in New York City on Sept 11th, 2001....

[Clarke123]

Make sure you tell that to the people & families of those who happened to be in New York City on Sept 11th, 2001....
Two wrongs don't make a right

[Kiwikat]

Anything that reduces our potential fatalities is good in my book. I'm sure we all have loved ones who are overseas right now. I'd like to see my cousin come back home alive. He's currently with the Navy on the ground in Afghanistan.

Everything is in a state of change (!). Technology has changed and will continue to change the way we fight wars. If it weren't for technology, there wouldn't have been "chivalry in the air" to begin with. Are the pilots of WWII lesser heroes because they used technology that soldiers in the Civil War didn't have? No.

[stiz]

Make sure you tell that to the people & families of those who happened to be in New York City on Sept 11th, 2001....

lets say we twiddle the scernio a little bit. A guy liveing down your road from goes to washington and blows up the white house killing the president and himself in the process. America then flatten your entire street and your famerly because they heard from a guy who heard from his aunts 2nd cusion who heard from the bin mans son that theres someone who helped him in liveing in the same street ... is that right?

But going back to topic, theres 1 major problem with all these electronics and fancy modern weapons ... EMP bombs, if one of those went off, whilst it might not cripple stuff in america that are have prolly been EMP proofed, the average soilder on the ground (and also most likely anything in the field) would be buggered completly, whilst the most likely enermy at the moment wouldnt be effective greatly at all.

Dont say its not impossible, 150 years ago they said we'd never fly :engel016:

[Roger]

It's gone way off topic since Beana's post. He was bemoaning the loss of airmen's camaraderie but I think that probably went away after WWI, although there is a tale, probably apocryphal, that when the RAF positioned wooden full size models to divert the German bombers, one Ju88 pilot flew very low over a fake airfield and dropped a wooden bomb! I hope this story is true.

Anyway let's leave the politics out of this one if we can if only in respect for the thread starter!

[Bjoern]

Are the pilots of WWII lesser heroes because they used technology that soldiers in the Civil War didn't have? No.

Dirtier war = less chivalry.

World War One only serves as an example for a "glorious" air war, because both sides didn't have the technology to do much else effectively other than trying to shoot each other down.

Not comparable at all to World War Two where whole cities were razed from air; civilians and whatnot strafed on the ground and enemy pilots attacked on their parachutes.
Why? Because they had the means to do so.



- Edit:

Just to answer your question, I don't consider anyone of any side who fought in a war a hero.

[beana51]

Thanx roger correctly Said...being a hopeless romantic,yes I was bemoaning that loss of another time and generation,now a dim memory , that I learn here!,.....No Politics at all intended...but the lads will do what they do...and we do live in a real world,... often best left out of our Sim world!..Thanx again Roger!

......Wooden bomb??.. maybe a memorial wreath for a heroic enemy?I heard of that..only in the Movies tho,,. who would carve such a thing? it probably was more like a Fragmentation bomb with personnel " GREETINGS "written on it!.?!http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/images/icons/icon26.gif

[Roger]

Dirtier war = less chivalry.

- Edit:

Just to answer your question, I don't consider anyone of any side who fought in a war a hero.

I don't think anyone here would agree with you Bjoern and to avoid unnecessary upset to those of my age especially whose fathers risked death or actually died, I will now lock this thread.

[Panther_99FS]

Two wrongs don't make a right

What's the 2nd wrong? - I only mentioned one thing...