Framerates - System Upgrade?

[skylane]

Hello!

I have had framerate problems with my computer for a long time, now I am finally fed up and want to do something about it.
Unfortunately I don´t know enough about computers, so I hope that someone with a better understanding can give me some advice.

The symptoms look like this: a CFS2 mission starts out fine, but after a while, after the action starts the framerates slow to a slideshow, so bad that even controlling the aircraft becomes difficult.
This happens with missions that have a lot of aircraft, flak, fires on the ground after bombs have been dropped, etc. Also, if many of the newer (and good-looking) ships by Usio and the VN are involved, the outcome tends to be the same. Simple missions run fine.

I have the following system:
2,8 GHz, 2 CPUs
1022 MB RAM
Nivida Geforce 6200 Video, 512 MB

Could it be that this is just not enough to run CFS2 properly?

I noticed a recent thread here about the Vietnam project, where Dirtman recommended a 1GB video card and 3 GB RAM (what does DDR2 mean?) as a minimum for the upcoming Vietnam campaignsto run acceptably

Is it possible, and does it make sense, to upgrade an existing computer to these specifications, or is it better to buy something new outright?

Or could there be another reason for the framerate loss?

Thanks for any advice!

skylane

[Shadow Wolf 07]

Hello!

I have had framerate problems with my computer for a long time, now I am finally fed up and want to do something about it.
Unfortunately I don´t know enough about computers, so I hope that someone with a better understanding can give me some advice.

The symptoms look like this: a CFS2 mission starts out fine, but after a while, after the action starts the framerates slow to a slideshow, so bad that even controlling the aircraft becomes difficult.
This happens with missions that have a lot of aircraft, flak, fires on the ground after bombs have been dropped, etc. Also, if many of the newer (and good-looking) ships by Usio and the VN are involved, the outcome tends to be the same. Simple missions run fine.

I have the following system:
2,8 GHz, 2 CPUs
1022 MB RAM
Nivida Geforce 6200 Video, 512 MB

Could it be that this is just not enough to run CFS2 properly?

I noticed a recent thread here about the Vietnam project, where Dirtman recommended a 1GB video card and 3 GB RAM (what does DDR2 mean?) as a minimum for the upcoming Vietnam campaignsto run acceptably

Is it possible, and does it make sense, to upgrade an existing computer to these specifications, or is it better to buy something new outright?

Or could there be another reason for the framerate loss?

Thanks for any advice!

skylane

That's more than enough to run CFS2. Remember the game was released when computers were a lot less powerful than now. Try clearing out (search the CFS2 main folder and delete) your cdps. Make sure the display graphics settings (page one) are right for your computer. If these fail, try reducing the graphics slider to 5 instead of 6. If that works, then your computer wants a stronger graphics card for most any game.

Note: years ago I tried "Blades" explosion effects on my Win ME system, which was pretty good for the time... They overwhelmed my graphics display much like you describe. Are you using them perchance?

[Rami]

Skylane,

One thing to ask and look for is...do any of your planes have exhaust effects? These are bona fide framerate killers, especially in missions, not just for player aircraft, but also for AIs.

Second, you might want to check and ensure that all your mission-used aircraft are multi-lod.

Lastly, I've found that the stock effects are the best in terms of framerates. The "souped up" fire effects and other goodies tend to get you into trouble that way.

[skylane]

Thanks for your suggestions, guys!

Rami, I usually don´t use exhaust effects, and the aircraft I use are Multi Lod.
I do use some non-stock effects, though.

SW, I indeed have the Blade effects.. Now, how do I get rid of them if I want to have the stock explosions again?
Reducing the graphics slider to 5 helped somewhat in the one mission I tried, but it is still not acceptable. Does this point to a more powerful graphics card?
Btw, are graphics- and video cards the same or two different things?

[Shadow Wolf 07]

Thanks for your suggestions, guys!

...Btw, are graphics- and video cards the same or two different things?

I meant the same thing... video card

You should be able to get the stock effects you didn't back them up?) from the disc. If push comes to shove, I can zip up my effects folder _- it is less than 1 mb - and send it to you. It contains some additional effects and a few slightly modified stock effects, but it won;t hurt anything. For example effects for Usio's ships and Nanni's extended wakes, oil slicks etc. that won't show unless you install his cfg's and dp's http://web.tiscali.it/Nanni/CFS/

[Jean Bomber]

Hi to all !



...you might want to check and ensure that all your mission-used aircraft are multi-lod.

How do you check that ? except trying them like I do,flying ,moving ,removing them,in my very sensible poor laptop.
I've noticed that sometime only one object plane or ship can slow down the fps.
Does exist a tool than can check if the plane ,ship ,object is multi lod ? or a way by disassembling the bgl to find the lod lines and chapters in the scasm?

JP

[wsmwsm]

How does cleaning out the CDPs help? Don't they have a function and don't they regenerate when CFS2 starts (or am I confusing these files with others)?

[Shadow Wolf 07]

How does cleaning out the CDPs help? Don't they have a function and don't they regenerate when CFS2 starts (or am I confusing these files with others)?

CDPs are files that record the damage to game objects as they are used. They sometimes build up and slow down the game and changes made, like to the dp of a plane. won't take until the cdp is deleted. Don't wory, the game generates new ones for each object as it is used --- planes, ships buildings... even trees have cdps.

Deleting them regularly gives you a "fresh" game and less for the computer to 'read', thus leaving more computer power for graphics generation..

[Rami]

Hi to all !


How do you check that ? except trying them like I do,flying ,moving ,removing them,in my very sensible poor laptop.
I've noticed that sometime only one object plane or ship can slow down the fps.
Does exist a tool than can check if the plane ,ship ,object is multi lod ? or a way by disassembling the bgl to find the lod lines and chapters in the scasm?

JP

Jean bomber,

I have a program that can check it...if you guys have a question I can analyze a model for you. This program is called Aircraft Container Manager.

As you can see...the Spitfire XIV by Paul Rebuffat has 5 levels of detail in the model, so it is quite frame-rate friendly, even in large numbers. As a general rule, dedicated CFS2 models tend to be multi-lod, but FS 2002 and 2004 conversions (except in occasional circumstances, such as the Junkers Ju-52) are single-lod, so using them in medium to large numbers causes major frame rate issues.

To summarize about LODs...

A CFS2 plane/ship/object which is multi-lod has multiple levels of detail, so that if a plane/ship/object is not VERY close to you, it will be drawn in progressively less detail the further away it is, thus increasing the PC's ability to draw it quickly, many times a second. This is especially important in furballs / bomber escorts, etc.

A CFS2 plane/ship/object which is single-lod is being drawn "full tilt" no matter how close or far away it might be. As you can imagine, this is problematic.

[Dirtman]

.
Yo Skylane:

2,8 GHz, 2 CPUs
1022 MB RAM
Nivida Geforce 6200 Video, 512 MB


The easiest thing to do is add at least 1GB of RAM, - 2GB if your motherboard will accept it.
I assume you are using WinXP - it will use up to 3GB but no more (without tweaking the system)

This will wake your PC right up & you'll be surprised at how much faster it will run!

You will need to first identify what type of RAM your PC uses: use "Everest" - to tell you all about your PC.

Freeware, get it here: http://www.filehippo.com/download_everest_home/

Give me the make & model number of your PC & I'll have a look around.




- what does DDR2 mean?

It designates what style of RAM the PC uses:

DDR = Dual Data Rate

DDR2 DDR - 2 channels

DDR3 DDR - 3 channels

[bobhegf]

I have used Baldes effects infact I helped test them way back. I have used them on most likely the slowest pc anywhere and they never gave me any problems.On my new pc I found that I had to do some adjusting to the graphics philters. once I did that I went from 55 Frames persec. to 77 pharmes persec.

[bearcat241]

...A CFS2 plane/ship/object which is single-lod is being drawn "full tilt" no matter how close or far away it might be. As you can imagine, this is problematic.

...the exceptions to this would be single-LOD models designed with adequate detail in low poly counts. These low poly designs can do as well or better than some MLOD designs and yet look great doing it. The key word here is "adequate detail".

Most single-LOD conversions are drawn to the highest detail for the satisfaction of FS fans -- especially in the VC layout and external/internal animations -- and hence tend to have the highest poly counts allowable by the design programs used. In many cases, the extra animations also require that extra parts be drawn which add to the poly load. SLOD designs with low to mid polys can be pretty good performers - in numbers - within CFS2.

[Rami]

...the exceptions to this would be single-LOD models designed with adequate detail in low poly counts. These low poly designs can do as well or better than some MLOD designs and yet look great doing it. The key word here is "adequate detail".

Most single-LOD conversions are drawn to the highest detail for the satisfaction of FS fans -- especially in the VC layout and external/internal animations -- and hence tend to have the highest poly counts allowable by the design programs used. In many cases, the extra animations also require that extra parts be drawn which add to the poly load. SLOD designs with low to mid polys can be pretty good performers - in numbers - within CFS2.

Always a valid point, Bearcat. Some single-lods can be used if they're configured for low detail. It's those high-res conversions that kill ya!

[skylane]

Many thanks to all of you who offered their opinions!

I will try different effects, but in the end I believe that upgrading my computer will be the best option.

Dirtman, I do have Windows XP. Is the information in the pictures useful for you?
Do you think that adding more RAM will be enough, or would you suggest to also change the video card?

3011630117

[bearcat241]

...I will try different effects, but in the end I believe that upgrading my computer will be the best option.


Whether you upgrade the vital components or just go all out for a new rig, you can never have too much punch if you're a hardcore simmer-gamer.

In terms of just upgrading parts on a tight budget, your dual core processor running at 2.8Ghz w/o overclocking should be sufficient. But a slight overclocking wouldn't hurt, if you were an advanced user. Sloppy overclocking can lead to system instability and CPU damage. But you could certainly use a boost in memory (the suggested 3 Gb is good) and a newer vcard -- maybe something in the Nvidia GTS series with about 1 Gb memory.

On my XP-Win7 platform, my i7 930 quad core runs at the default 2.8 Ghz but it feels more like 3.5 Ghz because i have a GTS 250 vcard w/ 1Gb and huge speed-adjustable fan, 4 Gb of Corsair DDR3 memory, a 750 watt PSU and five cooling fans in the case plus a killer heatsink fan. My virtual memory cache is manually managed at 2 Gb minimum and 4 Gb max. I was overclocking the CPU @ 3.4 Ghz but since the total system configuration performs so well at the default processor speed, i decided to back it down to the default speed for processor longevity.

Buying newer and better is great if you're a hardware novice with deep pockets -- you can reach your destination quickly with fewer problems and less study. But building a better rig is so much better for advancing your knowledge and keeping your costs down. However, you have to be patient, committed and willing to put in the time to acquire the right knowledge. There's a virtual ocean of resources in cyberworld to keep you informed, and as always, Google search is you best ally. ;)

[Dirtman]

.
Yo skylane;


Auchtung BABY!!! Sorry I don't speak German, but fortunately the numbers are in Arabic!


Your DXDIAG shows no video malfunction, you have dx9c installed and I think there is a driver update for your video card - get it directly from Nvidia - NOT Microsoft!

Problem #1:
Your 512MB 6200 video card has "turbo-cache". This means that when it runs low on available GPU memory; that it tries to "borrow" space from your system RAM. Because there is only 1GB of system RAM (50+% of which is being used to run XP) there is very little to spare ... if any!

Solution: Add at least 1GB RAM (for a total of 2GB) This will help immensely but may not completely solve your framerate problem. At the very least your PC will run faster and be less prone to frame-stutter.


If you want my help - please do what I have asked; I need the info from EVEREST


Before you can upgrade the RAM, you need to identify it USING "EVEREST"

It looks like this:

30122


It appears you have a Intel D820 based PC. (1st generation Intel dual-core)

I expect it uses either PC3200 (400MHz) or PC4200 (533MHz) RAM ... but we need to know which one. In Kanada, PC3200 costs about $40 per 1GB module ... PC4200 is slightly cheaper.


Download & install EVEREST, and then post the same screenshot that I have. Once we know what type of RAM you need, then we will see how much RAM your motherboard will support.

BTW; system RAM is probably the easiest upgrade to do on any PC. Unplug the PC, 2 screws to remove the side panel & 2 clips that hold each RAM module in place. VERY SIMPLE



IMPORTANT:

EVEREST will also display the temperature of the components in your PC. I am interested in the GPU temp (video card) The #1 thing that kills these cards is the GPU fan stops working, the card overheats & burns out. - the first sign is framerate-stutter as the card overheats under load and cannot display the video signal quickly enough.

The EVEREST temperature sensor data display looks like this:

30123

Non-functional video card fans have been a problem recently for OldWheat, Rami & myself

.
.

[skylane]

I´m really glad there are people with so much knowledge who are willing to share it! :ernae:
Ok. here are the Everest screenies:

3013130132

Seems my machine runs hotter than yours, Dirtman. Also, the fan rpm is higher, and if the computer has been on for some time, it gets even higher...

Ahem, what does "overclocking" mean? :redf: It is probably obvious if English is your first language, but..

[olaf1924]

skylane I blow out my computer every 6 months and I would not go over 1 year between cleanings. Computers seem to be dust magnets. Overclocking means having your computer run faster than your stock setting. skylane look at it this way your car comes stock with 200hp and after overclocking you have 250hp. The advice I can give you is if you are using a stock cpu fan do not overclock your cpu... The cost of greater cpu speed is more heat.

[Dirtman]

Yo Skylane;


PERFECT ... ya done REAL GOOD .... now go have a beer! :ernae:

Your PC uses: DDR2 PC5300 (667MHz) RAM - these cost aprx. $20 CDN per 1GB module
You have one - 1GB module installed. Your PC has at least 2 RAM slots (one would be available) or perhaps it has 4 slots (3 would be available)

The easiest way find this out is to remove the left-side panel (2 screws at the rear) and verify how many RAM slots there actually are.

BEFORE going any farther - we should find out how much RAM the motherboard will accept.
Could you give me the MAKE & Model number of your PC.

=============================

Problem #2 - the video card is running too hot

The temp should be in the 45C to 55C range. At 59C (at idle) it is running hot which is not a good sign. I would expect the temp to jump up to the 70C range (or higher) under load.

There is an easy way to test the video card under load to see the temp ... using EVEREST !!

When you open EVEREST, you'll notice a bunch of coloured squares (with numbers) in the lower right side of the taskbar (near the clock) Hover your mouse over this area & RIGHT CLICK - then LEFT CLICK on "configure"

... 30159


Next, uncheck all the boxes except for "Temperature" & "GPU"

... 30160


Now only the GPU temp is displayed ... open CFS2 in "Windowed Mode" and you can now monitor the GPU temperature while running CFS2 with the card under load.

... 30166

Tell me what the temp reading is when you begin to experience framerate-stutter. Then see what the max. temp you can get it up to!

- I have had my 512GB NVIDIA 7300GT up to 127C (260F) & it still works fine

=============================

What does "overclock" mean?

The CPU in all PC's run at certain speeds - expressed in GHz. This speed is called the "clock-speed". In your PC it is 2.8 GHz. The clock speed is adjustable - but this is not something a novice PC user should change.

"over-clocking" refers to making the CPU run at a faster clock-speed. This makes the PC perform faster but causes the CPU to run at a much higher temperature. If made to run too fast can cause the CPU to burn out and turn a good PC into a paper-weight.

[OBIO]

Skylane

Go up a few posts and find the link to Everest that Dirtman supplied. Download and install Everest. That program will tell ya pretty much everything about your system.

Based on the two screenshots you posted from the DXDiag screen, it looks like you don't have a stand alone video/graphics card but are sharing your system RAM with an on board video chipset. If that is true, adding a dedicated stand alone graphics card will free up your system RAM and give your system much more punch.

Increasing the RAM you have from 1Gig to 2Gig will also help tremendously.

Once you have used Everest to look at your system, you will be able to see just what your system has, what it can hold, what upgrades you can make.

OBIO

[skylane]

Hello!

I´m about to leave for work, will return tomorrow afternoon, and then have a look at the temperature issue.

Not sure how to find out make and model number of the PC. is it on Everest somewhere?

Thanks for all the help and suggestions so far!

[Dirtman]

Not sure how to find out make and model number of the PC. is it on Everest somewhere?

Knowing the Make & Model number of your PC is critical to finding the right components & specs. As in auto repair, you wouldn't want to try to put Toyota brakes parts on a Honda ... they don't fit or work properly. The same thing is generally true for PC's - RAM has differing numbers of contacts, Hard drives & optical drives have different plugs (IDE - SATA)

Look at your PC .. who makes it? (Dell, HP, Compaq, emachine, Gateway, Asus etc.)

There will be some type of numbered designation (model number) on the front.

Examples: HP Pavilion a250n, HP Pavilion ze4900, emachine w3115

- both my HP's have the model number printed clearly on the front of the cases. (as most PC's do) On my emachine - there is a little door on the front at the bottom (for speaker, mic & USB connections) the model number is printed on a label in there.

At the very least look for a label on the rear side of the case - although sometimes this can be difficult to see if the PC is under a desk or hard to get at.

About the only time this is irrelevant, is if the PC is custom built.

===============================================

Service tip: Often if you "Google" your Make & Model info (or go to the manufacturers site) you can download your PC's "service manual" (PDF) that will tell you almost everything, including step by step instructions on dis-assembly & component replacement.

... 30210

[skylane]

Hello Dirtman!

Just came back, and tried a few things.
The only hint at a make and model I could find is a label on the backside. You won´t know this, it says "DLI Austria" and a number.

I flew a mission that gives trouble and noted the GPU temperature: The max I got was 65°C. The fan rpm rose to 4500.

Trying different effects that ShadowWolf07 gave me brought some noticeable improvement. Still not perfect, though.
I think I´ll just remobe the RAM from my machine, take it to a PC shop and buy 1 more GB of the same make and model. That should work, right?

What do you think should be done about the high temperature?

[Dirtman]

noted the GPU temperature: The max I got was 65°C. The fan rpm rose to 4500.

What do you think should be done about the high temperature?

Nothing .... anything below 70C is normal - this just shows the GPU is working hard.






I think I´ll just remobe the RAM from my machine, take it to a PC shop and buy 1 more GB of the same make and model. That should work, right?

Roger ... but I doubt you'll find an exact match ... It is preferable to have all RAM modules of the same make & model. - known as "matched RAM". But this is not essential.

NOTE: Performance can be decreased as the RAM will run at the speed of the slowest RAM module.


You could also buy 1, 2 or 3 .. NEW 1GB modules. - 3 would be the optimum choice if your budget allows.

Windows runs in the RAM - the more RAM you give it - the faster it runs.

XP will accept up to 3 GB