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View Full Version : Another story from retired USN pilot, Cdr. Fred Sanders



Navy Chief
January 19th, 2011, 09:27
Fred sent me this story this morning. Thought I would pass it on:

On the boat, the least said, the better. We "hide" by not talking on the radio. Usually.

During daytime ops, you just don't say much. When you come in to land, its something like, "Tango Sierra, Chief 305, Corsair Ball, 2.2". The LSO will reply "Roger ball", and then you perform the orchestrated crash, and then taxi what's left of the airplane out of the landing area. Remember, this was during the Cold War, and the Russians HATED the US Navy having two carriers in the Med, at all times, and they were all over us, all the time. If you broadcast, they'll find you. How you hide in the ocean? Big ocean, little ship.

If we got serious about really pis..ing off the Russians, we'd go to a condition called "EMCON". Nobody emits ANYTHING. No radio, no TACAN, no radar - NOTHING. Not the boat, not a plane, nobody. Its all done with advance planning and light blinks. We are essentially hiding. We had, later on the A-7E's, a fine inertial navigation system. We brief, always, 2 hours before launch, and the ship would tell us where it planned to be 2.2 hours after our launch. So, we'd go there, and look for a "big gray thing" to land on. There were alternatives if someone got lost, but they are complex and I won't go into them.

When in a formation bombing flight of two or even four, we did all our comm with hand signals. Even for emergencies. (I once was flying as wingy on a guy from out sister squadron, EXTREMELY close formation. We each had a "Rockeye", a cluster bomb. We flew in very close formation, sank a ship - never said one word over the radio. When I saw his bomb come off, I pickled mine.)

We had "HEFOE" signals. If you are flying in formation, and you have a severe problem, and don't want to use the radio, or (most likely, can't), you put your forearm across your brow, like you are weeping, then put up between 1-5 fingers:
1. Hydralics
2. Electrical
3. Fuel
4. Oxygen
5. Engine

So you join up on the lead plane, and the lead calls the boat and says he has a wounded plane on his wing, and flies a normal approach to the boat, and about 20 seconds away from the trap, the lead flies away and the damaged plane continues the approach and lands. The lead gets in the "bolter pattern" and lands whenever there is an opening. If the damaged plane bolters, you just join up again and keep doing it.

At night, its done with flashlight blinks. I brought a guy aboard the Kennedy one night in the Med (wee hours of the morning, overcast, no moon - redefines the word "DARK") using HEFOE. I saved his rear that night. He was "NORDO", our term for "no radio".

Navy Chief
January 19th, 2011, 09:45
An update of sorts.

I ordered some pedals for Fred's flight sim setup. When they arrive, I'll be going to his place in Huntsville, AL, and get him all fixed up.

He's all excited about it! Fred's never done any simming, let alone carrier ops, etc.... I am looking forward to introducing him to this!

NC

PRB
January 19th, 2011, 09:46
I have always found it fascinating how the complex business of controlling the busy air traffic around a carrier can be done almost without talking on the radio. From initial approach to the ship, to the “marshaling stack” (or whatever it's called), to final approach, to the ball call (the only time they actually talk) to landing. That's amazing.

As for EMCON, we avionics people had to know if/when the ship was in EMCON, because the A-7E's radar could easily be made to transmit on deck, and we routinely did so during maintenance checks. But we'd get yelled at from the bridge if the ship was in EMCON and we lit off the radar. Oops... The other thing EMCON meant to us maintainers was that the ship's inertial navigation system (SINS) wouldn't be transmitting either, which is what we used to get the A-7's own INS aligned before a launch. That meant we had to drag the two mile long heavy yellow “SINS cable” from the catwalk SINS connector to the plane's SINS connector in the wheel well. A bit of a pain in the butt.

Navy Chief
January 19th, 2011, 09:49
drag the two mile long heavy yellow “SINS cable” from the catwalk SINS connector to the plane's SINS connector in the wheel well. A bit of a pain in the butt!

I was an AME, but I remember well, helping the avionics maintainers drag the SINS cables out of the catwalk, up to the aircraft. You are right. That was ONE heavy a..s cable!!!

Pete

Navy Chief
January 19th, 2011, 09:51
I also remember helping the ADs haul the Hi-power tiedown chain to the aircraft when they would do a hi-power turn up on the fantail! That baby was a bi..h!

NC

PRB
January 19th, 2011, 09:58
I remember helping the ADs remove a "buddy store" from one of our planes. One guy checked to see if there was a gas in the darned thing, which was a good idea. He looked in, paused, then said "there's not that much in there, I think we can do it!", which was a bad idea... In fact we couldn't "do it" and it ended up oin the deck, almost on top of my leg! Darn ADs! :)

SADT
January 19th, 2011, 12:29
I was an AME, but I remember well, helping the avionics maintainers drag the SINS cables out of the catwalk, up to the aircraft. You are right. That was ONE heavy a..s cable!!!

Pete


Very interesting story. :) :salute: :wavey:

Why was the SINS cable so darned heavy? I can understand a tie down cable being heavy, but an avionics cable?

PRB
January 19th, 2011, 12:41
Very interesting story. :) :salute: :wavey:

Why was the SINS cable so darned heavy? I can understand a tie down cable being heavy, but an avionics cable?

The cable was about 1/2 to 3/4 inches in diameter. But mostly it was heavy because it was so long. Not sure how long, couple hundred feet, but there are only ten or so SINS connectors at various places around the flight deck, so, in order to ensure that the cable can reach a plane parked anywhere... Still, sometimes we had to connect two SINS cables together to reach a plane.

Navy Chief
January 19th, 2011, 12:41
Very interesting story. :) :salute: :wavey:

Why was the SINS cable so darned heavy? I can understand a tie down cable being heavy, but an avionics cable?

Paul, you'll have to answer that one! I don't know! I just remember the cable being very long, and heavy.

David_L6
January 19th, 2011, 13:28
Fred sent me this story this morning. Thought I would pass it on:

...you perform the orchestrated crash, and then taxi what's left of the airplane out of the landing area.


:icon_lol:


I really like these stories. Thanks for posting them.

TARPSBird
January 19th, 2011, 14:22
Everything was heavier and clumsier to handle on the older aircraft. I remember helping the AT's pull a radio pack (AN/ARC-something) out of one of our RF-8's. It was a big round canister mounted on a flat panel that slid vertically into the avionics bay. You A-7 guys may have had the same type of install. Vacuum-tube era and heavy as hell. Had to fight to get it out, then manhandle it off the top of the bird. We later got newer solid-state radios that were much easier to service.

Roadburner440
January 19th, 2011, 15:37
So is this "Sins" cable you guys speak of like the current "hard line" we use to test the COMSEC systems and such before launching birds? Never been a carrier, but always wondered if they had something similar to what we do on the smaller ships.. Sounds like a pain in the rear to drag something all the way up from the hangar bay to the flight deck. Pain in the rear..

Good story though NC. Certaintly interesting some of the things pilots had to resort to way back.. Am glad you are going to introduce your friend to simming though. Hopefully he can relive some of his more exciting adventures through FSX!

PRB
January 19th, 2011, 15:51
“Hard line” would be a good description. The only time it was needed was when the ship wasn't transmitting SINS data. Normally, we tuned the radio to the SINS frequency, and that data was sent to the plane's INS for alignment.

On Enterprise (1983-1985) I think the SINS cables were kept by the IWT shop (Integrated Weapons Team, AQs) so it had to be brought up from the shop to the flight deck when needed. But, on Nimitz, the SINS cables may have been “part of” the catwalk gear, like the electrical power cables. I'm not 100% sure of that now, however.

@TARPS – The heaviest single box we had to deal with (AQ) in the A-7E was the computer. It was 90 pounds. The HUD unit was about 60 or 70, and it was a pain because of where it was screwed in... The ASCU was kind of heavy too.

Looking forward to Mr. Sanders jumping on here when he gets set up. One other way the A-7s (and others) also found their way back to the ship was with that big radar in the nose. Quite an advantage over those planes without one. That's if you're not in an EMCON situation, of course...

Roadburner440
January 19th, 2011, 16:56
Yeah. I think it is the same thing as what we do now. When we code the radios, and then test the connection between the aircraft and the ship before we let it take off to make sure it was a good load.